This is a huge mistake.
They woud prolly end up voting for Kang.

strangeguitar: This is a huge mistake.
They woud prolly end up voting for Kang.

Kang can't run again. He's term limited out after eight years.

/You didn't really think we elected George Bush, do you?

No taxation without representation? Why shouldn't that apply to legal residents as well as citizens?

Let them go back to their loser countries and vote, they don't deserve to vote here.

Quit farking around and let the UN appoint a king.

Does this mean I can vote in other countries' elections?

He won't get reelected. It won't pass. Just let it go.

Uh huh, he is a Dem.
Obama supports this.

I drive into Canada and vote every couple years.

I'm sorry, but this is pretty ridiculous. Whats the point of citizenship then? Granted, the article says only local elections, and it some sort of drive to include them in the local community, but come ON. If you want a vote, become a citizen.

Hmm, it depends. Maybe a vote on local initiatives and such that would effect them I can see, but federal and state elections? No. Definitely not federal. I guess if a state wants to let foreigners vote for their elections it might be within their rights.

Nudge: He won't get reelected. It won't pass. Just let it go.

Yeah true, but what the hell was he thinking?

Define noncitizen in 25 words or less. Then define what they get to vote for in one ballot or less.

I mean, if resident aliens and those with valid student visas get to vote on local initiatives, that might be a local issue--I know "resident aliens" who are Canadians and Aussies who have been here 40 years--but definitely not state or federal.

I think there's something in the US Constitution that says they can't.

wejash: strangeguitar: This is a huge mistake.
They woud prolly end up voting for Kang.

Kang can't run again. He's term limited out after eight years.

/You didn't really think we elected George Bush, do you?


Don't blame me... I voted for Konos (Al Gore)

Wow, that is definitely a senator who is not seeking re-election. Who would have thunk it?

FTA: "Lawmakers are preparing to consider a bill that would let communities choose to allow non-U.S. citizens to vote in municipal elections." ... "Chicago, for instance, allows them to vote in school elections, and six towns in Maryland allow them to vote in all local elections. They can vote in the Massachusetts towns of Cambridge, Amherst and Newton, Hayduk said, and proposals have been made to do the same in Chelsea and Somerville. And the issue probably will resurface in Boston after a 2007 defeat."

bfd.

No. Just no.

This is constitutional.

Proponents argue that letting non-citizen immigrants vote on local issues would include them in the community and provide incentive for them to pursue citizenship.

The main incentive they need to pursue citizenship is to not get kicked out of the country.

"Whenever you get more people to participate, you add legitimacy to that process,"

Duh. Doesn't mean that it's a good idea, though.

Woo-Woo! Here comes the clue-trane, last the Maine senate.

This isn't Constitutional. Nice try.

Slamguy:
Duh. Doesn't mean that it's a good idea, though.


Why isn't it a good idea to let the communities decide whether or not they should allow their residents, citizens or not, to vote in municipal matters?

If they do this, are they gonna only let tax payers vote on bond issues and tax hikes?

Britney Spear's Speculum: This isn't Constitutional. Nice try.

Where does the US Constitution dictate whether or not non-citizens are allowed to vote in local matters? I would have thought that'd be one of those pesky powers reserved to the States or the people. Although I could be wrong, so if you'd kindly show me where in the Constitution it says that, I'll gladly admit you're correct.

Britney Spear's Speculum: This isn't Constitutional. Nice try.

Uh, at the time the Constitution was written, this was how ALL states voted. Limiting voting to citizens only (as opposed to residents only) only began around the 1920s.

Several amendments (19, 24, 26) state that citizens cannot be denied the right to vote on certain criteria, but you'll note it doesn't forbid non-citizen voting. Nor does any other part of the Constitution.

Interesting.

I'm a legal permanent resident. That means I live in the US, and may continue to do so indefinitely as long as I do not do something stupid to get myself deported, or leave the US for longer than a certain period of time. I pay taxes here. I'm pretty much the same as a naturalized citizen, but I don't have a vote.

On one hand, it seems kind of silly to live somewhere and work and pay taxes and otherwise participate in society, but not be allowed to have a say.
On the other, I can quite understand the desire of a country to prevent foreign nationals from influencing its politics.

/To stave off the inevitable, there are two reasons I'm not naturalized yet
//1: George W. Bush.
//2: Dumb US tax laws for citizens working abroad

Sum Dum Gai: Uh, at the time the Constitution was written, this was how ALL states voted. Limiting voting to citizens only (as opposed to residents only) only began around the 1920s.

Oops.

1. I was wrong about all states voting that way; of the original 13 colonies, 12 permitted all residents to vote, but Georgia only permitted residents to vote if they were planning to become citizens.

2. I meant to say 1820s, not 1920s.

wejash: strangeguitar: This is a huge mistake.
They woud prolly end up voting for Kang.

Kang can't run again. He's term limited out after eight years.

/You didn't really think we elected George Bush, do you?

holiday_inn_in_cambodia: wejash: strangeguitar: This is a huge mistake.
They woud prolly end up voting for Kang.

Kang can't run again. He's term limited out after eight years.

/You didn't really think we elected George Bush, do you?


Don't blame me... I voted for Konos (Al Gore)

You both got it wrong. Kang and Kodos kidnapped Bob Dole and Bill Clinton. So President Kang would have left office in 2004 if he was reelected.

Good Behavior Day: Does this mean I can vote in other countries' elections?

Actually, in most nations in Western Europe you can vote at least at a local level, as long as you meet their residency criteria.

In general, non-citizens meeting certain requirements can vote in at least some elections in Ireland, Belgium, The Netherlands, Hungary, Austria, Switzerland, Spain, Norway, Denmark, and Sweden, and non-citizens can vote in all elections in Portugal.

And if you were a citizen of any EU nation, you'd have full voting rights in any EU nation you resided in.

There are other countries too, of course, outside of Europe -- in New Zealand, any resident can vote in all elections, and several South American countries allow that as well. All in all, about 1/10th of all nations currently allow non-citizen voting. Of course, many of the remaining 9/10ths don't have voting at all, so obviously whether non-citizens get equal voting rights is a moot point.

Goddammit, when are the citizens going to start telling these mother farkers they are out of a job? WTF?

PoopStain: Not surprised it's two Democrats who had the idea - stupidity seems to run rampant.

What Justin Alfond (D-Farking Goddamn Idiot) hasn't considered is that once he passes that bill, any country elsewhere who would like to add themselves to US politics will ship anyone who cares to move into his district.

He's selling out the farking country because he's typically liberal stupid.

Throw him out. He's trying to sell the country for his own gain. Mexico, El Salvador, China, or Russia will fund his next election attempt if he gets this passed.

Why do Democrats hate America?

Or, you know, the municipality could decide NOT to allow non-citizens to vote.

PoopStain: Why do Democrats hate America?

Please read Sum Dum Gai's posts above and kindly STFU kplsthx.

Yet another reason some states besides Florida need their own tags.

PoopStain: whidbey: Please read Sum Dum Gai's posts above and kindly STFU kplsthx.

You're a farking idiot.

READ.

You might do a little bit of that yourself before barging into threads and showing us again what a huge tool you are.

But I realize my words are wasted. You can't actually argue, you can only point fingers and act like a child. Your login is quite fitting, actually.

Yeah, this is a huge mistake. I don't care if it's just a local election, or if it's a national election. Hell, I don't give a damn if it's for school board members, if you are not a citizen, you shouldn't be voting. Don't like it and you're not a citizen, then begin the process to become a citizen. Don't like it and you're a citizen, tough.

One reason why I'm so against it is that it's a ploy for a political party to guilt non citizens into voting in their favor "We passed this bill so you could vote, you SHOULD thank us by voting for us.". In reality they don't care about the non residents, they just want to make sure that there are always voters coming in from people who are convinced that they owe it to that political party.

If this idea applied in any way, shape or form to state and federal elections, I'd be against it.

But it's local only, so I have no major problem with it. Especially in a state like Maine, where the vast majority of foreign nationals that reside in the state are Canadians. It's not like Maine has a whole bunch of illegal Mexicans, and the idea of voting for school board members sure isn't going to draw them up there.

/ex-Mainah

Can't municipalities decide to run themselves however in most states anyhow? So long as it's vaguely democratic, don't see why the state cares if it's one man, one vote, one vote per tax filing, votes for non-residents, or representational voting through a council of elders equivalent. Then, this is Democrat-land, that party has kind of a history of mandating the details of people's lives.

FTA: "...some suggest that newcomers to the country don't necessarily have the language skills or the knowledge of issues needed to make an informed vote."

While I disagree with the premise of non-citizens voting itself, I would say that a large majority of actual citizens suffer from the same problem.

/my $.02

DemonEater: /To stave off the inevitable, there are two reasons I'm not naturalized yet
//1: George W. Bush.
//2: Dumb US tax laws for citizens working abroad

George ain't in charge no more. Is Obama holding you up now?

Constitutionality is questionable:
Allow me to quote from the Maine constitution:
"Article II.Electors.
Section 1. Qualifications of electors; written ballot; military servicemen; students. Every citizen of the United States of the age of 18 years and upwards, excepting persons under guardianship for reasons of mental illness, having his or her residence established in this State, shall be an elector for Governor, Senators and Representatives..."

I'm no constitutional lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but since this bill is being proposed on a statewide level, I'll bet it'd get shot down.

Note that the sponsor reprevents the state's liberal elitist stronghold.

As long as other countries let American tourists vote in their elections, I don't have a problem with this.

If you pay taxes, you get a vote. Sounds like a good idea.

/No taxation without representation, and all that jazz

Lost Thought 00: If you pay taxes, you get a vote. Sounds like a good idea.

/No taxation without representation, and all that jazz

Which taxes do you mean ? Tourists pay sales, gas, parking, etc taxes.

This is such a huge load of suck it's not even funny. These lame brain politicians banter around about rights and citizenship like they were Pez candies.

Voting as an incentive to pursue citizenship? ROTFCMEO. How about pursuing citizenship to achieve the right to vote? There is a process. But no, they just want to hand it over like it's a gold star to anybody who shows up.

Give me a break. Go crawl back under a rock. Snakes.

If they want to vote, they can be come citizens first.

Too bad I don't vote in this asswipes district.

Well, just tell them that service guarantees citizenship. Would you like to know more?

"It thwarts the power, the potential and promise of democracy," he said. "We're all served by having a government that's more representative, more accountable and more responsive to all its members."

Um, excuse me, but if they aren't citizens, then they aren't "members". At best, they are "guests".

Wraithbane: Um, excuse me, but if they aren't citizens, then they aren't "members". At best, they are "guests".

I'd say anyone with a greencard and actually permanently residing here should be eligible to vote in local elections. I mean, they pay taxes, they follow our laws, and they're lawful permanent residents. Letting them be a part of our community makes integration into our society easier.

Sum Dum Gai: Wraithbane: Um, excuse me, but if they aren't citizens, then they aren't "members". At best, they are "guests".

I'd say anyone with a greencard and actually permanently residing here should be eligible to vote in local elections. I mean, they pay taxes, they follow our laws, and they're lawful permanent residents. Letting them be a part of our community makes integration into our society easier.

Except that citizen means a person with the right to vote, so they need to become citizens first. You don't get experience in becoming a citizen by doing the same things that citizens do until you become a citizen. You get your citizenship first. If they need knowledge they can read a book, there is no such thing as a "practice vote."


Unless it's an HOA, which is de facto local government that doesn't check citizenship.

Animatronik: Except that citizen means a person with the right to vote, so they need to become citizens first.

Citizen has never been synonymous with voting rights. Citizenship means that you are a resident who owes allegiance to the government of the nation you reside in. In the early days of the United States, and in many countries today, voting was given to residents, not citizens. The Constitution limits federal offices to be occupied by citizens, but it never specifies only citizens may vote.

Forty of our fifty states have at one time permitted non-citizen residents full voting rights; the first state to restrict rights to citizens only was Kentucky in 1799, and the last was Arkansas, in 1926.

You get your citizenship first. If they need knowledge they can read a book, there is no such thing as a "practice vote."

It's not about knowledge or practice, it's about engaging them and getting them to be active participants in their community, which is the best way to facilitate their integration into our society. It takes a minimum of five years of permanent residency to become a citizen; we should be trying to encourage people to build strong ties to their community well before that point. And participating in the political process is a good way to help people build ties to their new community.

I'm not saying anyone with a visa should vote; many people enter the United States only temporarily, and without the plan to set down roots here. But those who have greencards (immigrant visas), they're lawful permanent residents, and they should at least be able to participate in their local elections.

PoopStain: whidbey: . You can't actually argue

With an idiot like you? Argue? You're a farking parrot. Parrot.

Parrot.

Go get me a cracker, Polly.

What an awe inspiring display of logic that was.