The benefits I want could be supported by less than half the current level of taxation.

The benefits big government advocates want could be supported by less than half the current complexity of taxation.

That's the thing, I don't want many of those "benefits". Sure, I want some of them, and I don't mind paying taxes for them. It's the level that I don't like, not the fact.

Once I heard the great philosopher, Ludlow Porch say "the government should fix the potholes on interstate highways and have enough of a garrison to repel invaders at the waters edge in Myrtle Beach, SC."

Try as they might, I feel they have failed on both these rather simple mandates.

(For the completely devoid of humor literalist fark contingent- he really meant all borders. Ludlow, being from central Georgia, used a southern reference as a humorous example.)

Thank you

Chindit

The government is a thief that mugs its citizens at gunpoint to take from the hardworking taxpayer to give to the disgusting welfare queen.

There is only one man who can free our businesses from regulation, our people from tax slavery, and our property from unjust taxation and the tyranny of eminent domain.

That man is RON PAUL.

soze: The government is a thief that mugs its citizens at gunpoint to take from the hardworking taxpayer to give to the disgusting welfare queen.

There is only one man who can free our businesses from regulation, our people from tax slavery, and our property from unjust taxation and the tyranny of eminent domain.

That man is RON PAUL.

Unregulated businesses? That's a fantastic idea! I think we should start with the mortgage industry!

Chindit: and have enough of a garrison to repel invaders at the waters edge in Myrtle Beach, SC."

Isn't that where they train Marines? I think SC is safe.

see humorless footnote.

TFA: Do you know how the bailout money will arrive in your community? Hmm? Will it be a check in the mail, a bank transfer? Whose hands will it pass through? How will it be allocated when it arrives? If you don't know, it's because the press hasn't told you and, for the most part, probably doesn't know.

The press not knowing is not nearly as big a deal as the farkers that wrote and passed the goddamn thing not knowing.

I_Am_Weasel: Unregulated businesses? That's a fantastic idea! I think we should start with the mortgage industry!

Absolutely. The two problems with the mortgage industry are excessive regulation and irresponsible borrowers. Freeloaders keep expecting handout after handout from Uncle Sam, and it's time we put our foot down. If lenders were allowed to make the loans they WANTED instead of the loans the government made them make, they would not have been forced into this position.

soze: I_Am_Weasel: Unregulated businesses? That's a fantastic idea! I think we should start with the mortgage industry!

Absolutely. The two problems with the mortgage industry are excessive regulation and irresponsible borrowers. Freeloaders keep expecting handout after handout from Uncle Sam, and it's time we put our foot down. If lenders were allowed to make the loans they WANTED instead of the loans the government made them make, they would not have been forced into this position.

OK. I understand now. Sorry. My view was unfortunately clouded by reality. I won't let it happen again.

soze: The government is a thief that mugs its citizens at gunpoint to take from the hardworking taxpayer to give to the disgusting welfare queen.

There is only one man who can free our businesses from regulation, our people from tax slavery, and our property from unjust taxation and the tyranny of eminent domain.

That man is RON PAUL.

Oh my God, this is good.

RON PAUL

soze: If lenders were allowed to make the loans they WANTED instead of the loans the government made them make, they would not have been forced into this position.

You could always put your money somewhere safe...Like a credit union. Oh, wait.

Under certain ideal conditions, aggregate spending by the government will equal aggregate land rent. This is known as the Henry George theorem.

Of course, the argument is that nothing is ever ideal, but the interesting thing about this particular theorem is a) actual conditions are often pretty close, and b) it gives an efficient policy goal, that of setting taxes in a community/state/nation equal to the rental value of the bare land it contains (minus any improvements), and then using those taxes to supply public services to increase the value of that land. Once marginal costs and marginal benefits of additional residents are balanced, the community is at its most efficient size.

One nice feature of this is that it gives political authorities a guide for public spending and investment -- make sure the amount of money spent is less than or equal to the amount of money that will be gained from the increase in land value, and the spending is worthwhile. If spending is greater than this amount, it is inefficient.

I_Am_Weasel: Unregulated businesses? That's a fantastic idea! I think we should start with the mortgage industry!

There is unregulated and then there is excessive regulation. There is a healthy free market and then there are oligopolies and monopolies. It's the governments job to prevent the latter two and it is what they failed to do. They allowed companies to become too big and have massive conflicts of interest with their operations.

Dancin_In_Anson: You could always put your money somewhere safe...Like a credit union. Oh, wait.

MY money is safe because I've been putting it into gold for some time now. What currency I've had to keep on hand because of the lie of paper money has been perfectly secure in my domestic account.

Credit unions are for communists. Never trust the unions. They have caused the destruction of everything good about our market system.

ZAZ: The benefits I want could be supported by less than half the current level of taxation.

Welcome to democracy. Other people want these benefits. So you'll pay for them.

DamnYankees: Welcome to democracy.

...democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.

Dancin_In_Anson: DamnYankees: Welcome to democracy.

...democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.

Glad to know you don't support democracy.

DamnYankees: Glad to know you don't support democracy.

Goddamn right I don't.

Foolish Libertarians...

Government spending has a multiplicative effect on the economy. Spending tax money on the police increases public safety and security, a workforce that is secure is more productive and induces the economy to grow. Spending tax money on road construction allows for a distributed industrial base, regional competition, and increased productivity. Spending tax money on education increases the knowledge base of the work force, which in turn increases innovation through a more skilled workforce. Spending tax money on social safety nets distributing risk and stimulating entrepreneurship. Spending tax money on personal loan guarantees injects money into the bottom of the market, allowing workers to establish equity, financial independence, and it grows the marketplace.

All of these things create opportunities for the market that do not exist in a free and unfettered market. Your taxes, and the taxes of others, have created the foundation for the comfortable lifestyle you currently are enjoying.

Dancin_In_Anson: DamnYankees: Glad to know you don't support democracy.

Goddamn right I don't.

I give it about 4 posts before you or someone else comes in snarls "Were a republic not a democracy and I support that". Then you and they can snort and laugh.

DamnYankees: I give it about 4 posts before you or someone else comes in snarls "Were a republic not a democracy and I support that".

Why bother? You have already pointed it out.

Were a Republic?
What the hell happened?

Descartes: Were a Republic?
What the hell happened?

Thunderous applause happened.

Dancin_In_Anson: DamnYankees: I give it about 4 posts before you or someone else comes in snarls "Were a republic not a democracy and I support that".

Why bother? You have already pointed it out.

I love people who spew that line. It's like telling me you support Sarah Palin. Makes it extremely easy to know who the shallow thinkers are.

Look, it's very simple. We're a society made up of individuals, each with his own wants and priorities. Collectively, they add up to things we want or value as a society. And that changes over time. Sometimes, we think something is appropriate for government to tax us for and then spend money on. Other times, we don't think it's appropriate.

To decide this, we argue, we lobby, we vote. We form special interest groups, or we write letters to our representatives. It's sloppy, it's messy, and nobody gets everything they want, exactly as they want. But we all get the right to complain.

It's called democracy, and it's the worst system ever conceived. Except for all the other ones.

soze: Absolutely. The two problems with the mortgage industry are excessive regulation and irresponsible borrowers.

roflmao.

VictoryCabal: Look, it's very simple. We're a society made up of individuals, each with his own wants and priorities. Collectively, they add up to things we want or value as a society. And that changes over time. Sometimes, we think something is appropriate for government to tax us for and then spend money on. Other times, we don't think it's appropriate.

Marxist.

Dancin_In_Anson: DamnYankees: I give it about 4 posts before you or someone else comes in snarls "Were a republic not a democracy and I support that".

Why bother? You have already pointed it out.

You're a republic and a democracy. A liberal democracy, even.
One thing doesn't exclude the other.

Dansker: You're a republic and a democracy. A liberal democracy, even.
One thing doesn't exclude the other.

Don't ruin his vision of the world. He probably thinks you're a Ghostocracy because Hamlet's dad rules your country.

ZAZ: The benefits I want could be supported by less than half the current level of taxation.

The benefits big government advocates want could be supported by less than half the current complexity of taxation.

Ignoring social security (and bailouts) the budget last year consist of
682B - Medicare/Medicaid
613B - Defense
249B - Interest
303B - Mandatory
520B - Discretionary
= 2367B
We could have all our Mandatory and Discretionary spending if we just cut our Defense, Medicare, Interest in half none of which should ever had been allowed to get as big as it is.

soze: The government is a thief that mugs its citizens at gunpoint to take from the hardworking taxpayer to give to the disgusting welfare queen.

There is only one man who can free our businesses from regulation, our people from tax slavery, and our property from unjust taxation and the tyranny of eminent domain.

That man is RON PAUL.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH *deep breath* BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
That is comedy gold. You,my fine feathered friend,are a genius.

You most definitely win a +1 internets.

soze: The government is a thief that mugs its citizens at gunpoint to take from the hardworking taxpayer to give to the disgusting welfare queen.

There is only one man who can free our businesses from regulation, our people from tax slavery, and our property from unjust taxation and the tyranny of eminent domain.

That man is RON PAUL.

soze: Dancin_In_Anson: You could always put your money somewhere safe...Like a credit union. Oh, wait.

MY money is safe because I've been putting it into gold for some time now. What currency I've had to keep on hand because of the lie of paper money has been perfectly secure in my domestic account.


You know I love the right-wing survivalist types that think that gold is the perfect hedge (not necessarily pointing at you soze).
Should their red dawn fantasies actually come to be, I think a lot of them will be surprised at just how worthless gold will become in a post-apocalyptic economy. Sure, it's shiny....but you can't eat it, you can't make anything useful out of it (crappy bullets maybe?), the only reason it's the defacto medium of trade is because it's pretty, rare, and heavy. None of these really mean shiat when you're skinning deer for clothing.

/Salt FTW roman-style
//slashies

Descartes: Were a Republic?
What the hell happened?






You're looking at it.

Dansker: You're a republic and a democracy. A liberal democracy, even.

How'd that turn out in California?

archnem: I think a lot of them will be surprised at just how worthless gold will become in a post-apocalyptic economy.



The Ayatolla of Rock and Rolla agrees with you.

Dancin_In_Anson: Dansker: You're a republic and a democracy. A liberal democracy, even.

How'd that turn out in California?

Huh? I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Yeah! And think how cool it would be if (a) the costs of health care weren't artificially inflated by PACs and special interest groups and drug company lobbies, and (b) we could somehow buy health insurance on our own by joining some sort of group and then get a group rate -- sort of like how credit unions are non-profit.

And do you all really want the US government to be in charge of health care? Stamps are more expensive, and I hear they're going to stop deleviring mail on Saturdays. Do you want health care on the weekends? Then why do you think that our taxes will be used good if we get 'free' health care?? It'll end up costing a lot more. We're better off just taking that money and putting it in the bank. At least it'd get interest. Or, heck, buy forever stamps. Those things are only gonna go up in value.

Watch out for more and more news reports and articles espousing the wonders of higher taxes in preparation of what they are planning - HUGE ACROSS THE BOARD TAX INCREASES IN EVERYTHING.

But by the time they are ready to inundate you with them, you will be so brainwashed that you will WELCOME the all new taxes from your leaders. As usual, incomes will continue to go down while inflation will rise through the roof. Oh, but the fat cats, they'll continue getting richer.

DamnYankees:
I give it about 4 posts before you or someone else comes in snarls "Were a republic not a democracy and I support that". Then you and they can snort and laugh.

I blame the game Civilization for the obtuse "we're a Republic, not a Democracy" meme.

I used to work on a construction crew two summers while in college. My foreman/boss was a survivalist/non-tax paying individual who in spite of his anti-government views, and occasional outbursts of rage (he wasn't one to start a fight but he damn sure finished a few with a vengeance), was a really nice guy. He hunted/grew his own food. He worked every day in most conditions like rain, snow, ice, etc. when it wasn't just deadly dangerous, he bought an old home on a farm and completely renovated it with new and recycled material, doubling its value almost instantly. He threatened another man with DEATH (from another crew) who had accused me of stealing some of his equipment when I had not. He wrote letters in response to IRS threats which he received monthly probably, asking them to prove his debt in a court of law and he would pay it, and all they did was freeze his bank accounts. They never arrested him or took him to court. I liked him, a lot.

My favorite part about him though was how he could argue against paying taxes so hilariously and effectively. I don't remember the exact words, but the only thing he believed that the government provided us as a service was the National and State Parks, and he said he would gladly pay taxes to support that. Everything else, according to him, was a complete waste. Police, roads, military, firefighters, schools, EVERYTHING to him, he had the funniest and most interesting arguments about how we as citizens could accomplish these things privately or with some hard work and ingenuity. I am not saying I agreed with him or supported him much in any idea he had, but he sure was fun to talk to.

He was murdered, shot down in the street by a guy who started a fight with him about a traffic incident. The guy challenged him to a fight, he accepted. The guy pulled out a gun and shot him as their cars sat in the middle of a road. But as much as I can here you guys saying, "shouldn't have brought a fist to a gun fight" or "he had it coming" (maybe he did), he was a great, interesting, self sufficient, decent guy who I thought was really brave for standing up for his beliefs. Maybe could have worked on his anger issues, obviously, but I miss him and his spirit.

archnem: You know I love the right-wing survivalist types that think that gold is the perfect hedge (not necessarily pointing at you soze).
Should their red dawn fantasies actually come to be, I think a lot of them will be surprised at just how worthless gold will become in a post-apocalyptic economy. Sure, it's shiny....but you can't eat it, you can't make anything useful out of it (crappy bullets maybe?), the only reason it's the defacto medium of trade is because it's pretty, rare, and heavy. None of these really mean shiat when you're skinning deer for clothing.

/Salt FTW roman-style
//slashies

Durability. Doesn't react/spoil too easily, either. But then, it has no intrinsic value except the value society wants to put on it as an exchange currency. Kind of like paper money.

We're not a Republic, we're an Oligarchy that pretends to be a Democratic Republic.

DamnYankees: Marxist.

*snickers*

Except that a large percentage of Americans don't even pay any federal income taxes. And Obama wants to make this percentage even larger.

The tax code, it's the new welfare.

Dansker: Dancin_In_Anson: Dansker: You're a republic and a democracy. A liberal democracy, even.

How'd that turn out in California?

Huh? I'm not sure what you're getting at.


California has the general public vote on certain referendums. Prop 8 was one of those. It passed with a majority vote. Now it is being contested that a majority can not restrict teh rights of a minority.

Huge disaster and waste of money...but funny to watch as an outsider.

This is not Ironic

Dansker: Huh? I'm not sure what you're getting at

In all fairness, I don't expect you to.

Sgt. Pepper: I blame the game Civilization for the obtuse "we're a Republic, not a Democracy" meme.

I blame Madison.

Umokay: he was a great, interesting, self sufficient, decent guy who I thought was really brave for standing up for his beliefs.


sounds like he should have armed himself.


Sad.