Critics of evolution said they were thrilled with Friday's move. "Texas has sent a clear message that evolution should be taught as a scientific theory open to critical scrutiny, not as a sacred dogma that can't be questioned," said Dr. John West, a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute, a Seattle think tank that argues an intelligent designer created life.

wow...just...wow

My country depresses me sometimes.

bulldg4life: Dr. John West,

Is that the salmon guy? Wow, he will know!

You're depressed? I live in Texas.

"Dr. John West Senior Fellow at the Discovery Institute, a Seattle think tank that argues an intelligent designer created life."

Inherent lies in this sentence: 5

I say A and B.

"It's not necessarily the case" that the Texas curriculum will pop up in other states...

Texas, the Wal-Mart of states.

Glasgowsfinest: Is that the salmon guy? Wow, he will know!

Well that is silly. He must have a biology degree, or a theology degree at the least...

Dr. John West received his Ph.D. in Government from The Claremont Graduate School in 1992.

Claremont?!??!?! A friggin glorified community college.

alonzinator: Dr. John West received his Ph.D. in Government from The Claremont Graduate School in 1992.

Are you sure it wasn't in Applied Canning?

/yes, I know it's not that John West.
//it's 6.15 here and I'm tired.

Looks like a victory for academic freedom.

SkinnyHead: Looks like a victory for academic freedom.

-1 back under the bridge.

SkinnyHead: Looks like a victory for academic freedom.

More like a loss for Constitutional Freedom. Good to know where you set your priorities.

dahmers love zombie: You go with that.

Dude, I needs me one of those periodic table ones.

To blatantly steal from the Bad Astronomer:

The board's chairman has said he believes God created the universe fewer than 10,000 years ago.

Almost inconceivably in the 21st century, that's the chairman of the board of education for the state of Texas. This man has no business being anyways near anything having to do with education.

Dear Texas board of education: Way to be the latest laughingstock of the nation, you stupid, ignorant, backwards farks.

Just give them what they want. The Texan students will "learn" from these guidelines and the enlightend world will be free to refuses to hire them for anything other than manual labor.

Texas is a big state. Miss-educating an entire generation will make things like drywall installation and ditch digging cheap to the more enlightened states surrounding that hell hole of ignorance and stupidity.

They really enjoy being morons and we should all benifit from that.

T.M.S.
Just give them what they want. The Texan students will "learn" from these guidelines and the enlightend world will be free to refuses to hire them for anything other than manual labor.

It's not the fault of Texas children that a majority of their state school board is made up of complete idiots. Unfortunately it will also impact textbooks statewide and because of that big market may impact textbooks nationwide.

Poorly educated, scientifically ignorant people is bad for the nation. It means this shiat will keep coming up at school boards. It will continue to waste time and money in courtrooms. Worst of all, such decisions help perpetuate the pathetic level of scientific ignorance in the general population. It leads to voting decisions made out of ignorance because of positions on scientific issues and in turn leads to bad policy.

Dan the Schman: More like a loss for Constitutional Freedom. Good to know where you set your priorities.

These new guidelines simply state: "In all fields of science, analyze, evaluate, and critique scientific explanations by using empirical evidence, logical reasoning and experimental and observational testing, including examining all sides of scientific evidence of those scientific explanations so as to encourage critical thinking by the student."

I can't see how any of that interferes with any of your constitutional freedoms. Unless you people think it's your constitutional right to tell others what they can and cannot think.

Only the most dogmatic extremist would object to guidelines that promote critical thinking skills. Good to see where you're coming from.

SkinnyHead
These new guidelines simply state: "In all fields of science, analyze, evaluate, and critique scientific explanations by using empirical evidence, logical reasoning and experimental and observational testing, including examining all sides of scientific evidence of those scientific explanations so as to encourage critical thinking by the student."

Read the rest of TFA. That statement is definitely not all they did.

Besides that, simply stating that students should be taught to use critical thinking in science class would be pointless and redundant. It's a given.

patrick767: T.M.S.
Just give them what they want. The Texan students will "learn" from these guidelines and the enlightend world will be free to refuses to hire them for anything other than manual labor.

It's not the fault of Texas children that a majority of their state school board is made up of complete idiots. Unfortunately it will also impact textbooks statewide and because of that big market may impact textbooks nationwide.

Poorly educated, scientifically ignorant people is bad for the nation. It means this shiat will keep coming up at school boards. It will continue to waste time and money in courtrooms. Worst of all, such decisions help perpetuate the pathetic level of scientific ignorance in the general population. It leads to voting decisions made out of ignorance because of positions on scientific issues and in turn leads to bad policy.

There is no chance my state will ever buy into this kind of farm animal stupidity.

Money is tight and the lines will have to be drawn soon.

If Texan parents want their children to remain ignorant of even the most basic scientific principals why should I try to stop them?

We can no longer afford to try to drag these idiots into the 21st. Century.

We need ditch diggers and aparently Texas is willing to provide them wholesale.

T.M.S.: We can no longer afford to try to drag these idiots into the 21st. Century.

We need ditch diggers and aparently Texas is willing to provide them wholesale.

Because collective punishment based upon geographic location works so incredibly well. Just ask the Israelis.

SkinnyHead: Dan the Schman: More like a loss for Constitutional Freedom. Good to know where you set your priorities.

These new guidelines simply state: "In all fields of science, analyze, evaluate, and critique scientific explanations by using empirical evidence, logical reasoning and experimental and observational testing, including examining all sides of scientific evidence of those scientific explanations so as to encourage critical thinking by the student."

I can't see how any of that interferes with any of your constitutional freedoms. Unless you people think it's your constitutional right to tell others what they can and cannot think.

Only the most dogmatic extremist would object to guidelines that promote critical thinking skills. Good to see where you're coming from.

a) Don't play dumb, you can't get away with intellectual dishonesty. This is about Intelligent Design and you know it. Intelligent Design, by definition, posits a god, which 1) has no place in a science class 2) is religion.

b) First Amendment protects us from religion.

c) That's already what science does, that's the damn definition of science. This is crap to single out evolution and bring in BS misinformation like saying evolution isn't valid because goddamn FERNS look the same today as they did millions of years a long time ago.

d) Why do you only care about "academic freedom" regarding evolution? What about gravity and heliocentrism and the Holocaust and the moon landing and Xenu?

I addressed all of your points, I'd appreciate it if you addressed all of mine.

Occam's Chainsaw: T.M.S.: We can no longer afford to try to drag these idiots into the 21st. Century.

We need ditch diggers and aparently Texas is willing to provide them wholesale.

Because collective punishment based upon geographic location works so incredibly well. Just ask the Israelis.

Exactly how many of my tax dollars are you willing to spend trying to get one of the richest states in the union to not be total morons?

Time is up. We tried. They want to be stupid.

Let them.

Dan the Schman: I addressed all of your points, I'd appreciate it if you addressed all of mine.

I wish I could stay up for this, it should be good.

But I just finished a nightshift, and I bid you all farewell.

Glasgowsfinest: I wish I could stay up for this, it should be good.

But I just finished a nightshift, and I bid you all farewell.

Check back around 7:30-ish when this hits the fan politics tab in liter land.

/also going to sleep
//in before Beve... a certain someone comes in and uses grossly out-of-context quotes as "proof" of I.D., followed by his famous line about God, atheists and foil.

Social conservatives on the board, led by chairman Don McLeroy, have made clear they expect books to address those topics by raising questions about the validity of evolutionary theory.[...]Board members also deleted a reference to the scientific consensus that the universe is nearly 14 billion years old. The board's chairman has said he believes God created the universe fewer than 10,000 years ago.

Just so we're all clear, there is no ideological motive here whatsoever. Just good old fashion education. Do not look at the man behind the curtain.


Sigh.. things were gong so well too.

T.M.S.: Exactly how many of my tax dollars are you willing to spend trying to get one of the richest states in the union to not be total morons?

None of your tax dollars are being used. Texas contributes more than it uses. If you want to be all pissy about it fine, but it isn't costing you anything.

the_cnidarian: T.M.S.: Exactly how many of my tax dollars are you willing to spend trying to get one of the richest states in the union to not be total morons?

None of your tax dollars are being used. Texas contributes more than it uses. If you want to be all pissy about it fine, but it isn't costing you anything.

Not out of pocket, but it certainly costs us in the long wrong. Every stupid kid is a kid that won't be out there creating, inventing and producing. Don't believe evolution works and that its all bunk?

Cool, no using evolutionary algorithms(EA's) to develop the topology optimization of trusses. No using EA's to find globally optimized systems of allocating computer memory. Want to develop a new model of solar collector on the cheap?

Sorry, you gotta do that shiat by hand, from scratch. No genetic algorithms for you, because remember, nothing can increase in complexity via inheritance, that's just atheist dogma.

No biomedical research, sorry. H5N1 has no chance of spreading to humans, because remember - evolution is false and creatures can't change via selection to dominate their environment.

Worried about the environment and our effect on natural habitats of fish and wildlife? Don't bother, you'd have to take biology and come to understand population dynamics, heredity, recombination and all that other pesky 'evolution dogma'.

Wish to work on cutting edge astro-physics? Sorry, no can do. Your highschool taught you that dating mechanisms aren't to be trusted, as they show values in the earths age that are greater than 10,000 years old. Because radio-metric dating is based upon rather simple atomic theory regarding nuclear decay, well we just can't trust that pesky physics - best to stay away.

Astronomy? Out.

Ecology? Out.

Volcanology? Out.

Geology? Oh dear no, out.

Chemistry? Sorry, nope - no dealing with self-catalyzing lipids in THIS school. Uncaused causes are solely the realm of God.

Botany? And learn that Mendel discovered basic heredity techniques that caused peas to evolve? Oh deary me, no. Out.

Neurology? Sorry, no can do. Being that Humans are elevated beings, created specially, doing animal testing to discover the functions of brain chemistry and reactions is simply not allowed.

Radiology? Ooh, sorry. Medical field and all, but there you go with that physics again. Radioactive decay, carbon dating... it's all far far too much. We can't have you contradicting Gods word.


But hey, no worry. I live in California. All this means is more ditch diggers in Texas, more positions available for me and mine. fark all those other people. Amiright?

So, these people have doubts about evolution, but believe with all their heart that an old man rounded up 2 of every animal (before 1/2 the earth was discovered) and put them on a giant boat. How do they not forget to breath.

ninjakirby: Don't believe evolution works and that its all bunk?

Never said that. There are a lot of us down here in TX trying to vote these people out. But c'mon comments like Time is up. We tried. They want to be stupid. are ridiculous. Is he down here testifying before the legislature, is he down here trying to educate people? No. Do something or STFU. This kind of BS is frustrating for everybody.

All this means is more ditch diggers in Texas, more positions available for me and mine.

I'm an ex-plumber studying biology. I'd have made more money digging ditches than studyin animals an' such. Yee haw!

Although, I wish you would have saved that post for somebody that was actually anti-evolution.

Dan the Schman: a) Don't play dumb, you can't get away with intellectual dishonesty. This is about Intelligent Design and you know it. Intelligent Design, by definition, posits a god, which 1) has no place in a science class 2) is religion.

No, these standards are designed to encourage critical thinking.

The fact that ID proponents support academic freedom and critical thinking skills, while Darwinists do not, shows that ID proponents are more interested in students getting a proper education while Darwinists are more interested in indoctrination and imposing their views on others.

b) First Amendment protects us from religion.

The First Amendment is supposed to protect us from censorship. It's not supposed to be used to stifle academic freedom.

Encouraging students to analyze, evaluate, and critique scientific explanations has nothing to do with religion (unless Evolutionism is a religion to you people).

c) That's already what science does, that's the damn definition of science. This is crap to single out evolution and bring in BS misinformation like saying evolution isn't valid because goddamn FERNS look the same today as they did millions of years a long time ago.

If that's the damn definition of science, what's the problem? What's wrong with including the damn definition of science in the state guidelines?

d) Why do you only care about "academic freedom" regarding evolution? What about gravity and heliocentrism and the Holocaust and the moon landing and Xenu?

The critical thinking guidelines apply to "all fields of science."

My God, if I could make money off of intellectual dishonesty, this post alone would make me rich.

SkinnyHead: Dan the Schman: a) Don't play dumb, you can't get away with intellectual dishonesty. This is about Intelligent Design and you know it. Intelligent Design, by definition, posits a god, which 1) has no place in a science class 2) is religion.

No, these standards are designed to encourage critical thinking.

The fact that ID proponents support academic freedom and critical thinking skills, while Darwinists do not, shows that ID proponents are more interested in students getting a proper education while Darwinists are more interested in indoctrination and imposing their views on others.

You have yet to prove that ID is a valid alternative to evolution.

You have yet to prove that it's even a valid scientific theory. You want standards applied to science? Well, in that case we can only allow peer-reviewed scientific theories. There's your academic freedom. If it can get past that one hurdle, then it can be allowed in a classroom.

b) First Amendment protects us from religion.

The First Amendment is supposed to protect us from censorship. It's not supposed to be used to stifle academic freedom.

Read the First Amendment again.

Encouraging students to analyze, evaluate, and critique scientific explanations has nothing to do with religion (unless Evolutionism is a religion to you people).

Wrong. It does when that "critique" involves mentioning some of your favorite words: Intelligent Design.

c) That's already what science does, that's the damn definition of science. This is crap to single out evolution and bring in BS misinformation like saying evolution isn't valid because goddamn FERNS look the same today as they did millions of years a long time ago.

If that's the damn definition of science, what's the problem? What's wrong with including the damn definition of science in the state guidelines?

Because ID doesn't meet those standards. Because the "critique" being suggested doesn't meet those standards.

Because high school isn't where teachings are "critiqued". Before you can critique something, you have to understand it. In high school we (ideally) learn and are taught to understand things... when we get to college is when we can take special focus and critique.

In high school you're told Hamlet is a tragic hero and you read the play and take a test that shows you know who killed whom.

When you get to college is when you can say "Hamlet was just a spoiled brat who enjoyed killing people."

I'm using literature as a reference because I want to make the point that the difference between understanding and questioning isn't limited to science, it applies to all subjects.

You're living proof of why people should learn a subject before they criticize it.

High school biology already has to cover a slew of material, there would barely be enough time to cover the basics of evolution so that students could grasp it, let alone lead a discussion on flaws.

d) Why do you only care about "academic freedom" regarding evolution? What about gravity and heliocentrism and the Holocaust and the moon landing and Xenu?

The critical thinking guidelines apply to "all fields of science."

More of that ID (Intellectual Dishonesty). I said "you" for a reason. You only ever talk about academic freedom in regard to Intelligent Design and evolution, you never suggest applying it to any other theory or commonly taught belief/historical event. There are dozens of theories and teachings that have less evidence than evolution, dozens of "alternatives" with more evidence than ID... and yet this is the only aspect of academic freedom you talk about.

You'd get relatively less flack if you weren't so goddamn dishonest in every post.

You show up in all of these threads talking about academic freedom and the right to teach Intelligent Design.... but now suddenly, "Oh, ID what? This is just about applying critical thought to science."

the_cnidarian: Never said that.

Oh, I meant that in a more 3rd party tone of voice. Wasn't directed at you, so much as it was a hypothetical voice talking to future Texas students.

the_cnidarian: Although, I wish you would have saved that post for somebody that was actually anti-evolution.

Eh.

SkinnyHead: The fact that ID proponents support academic freedom and critical thinking skills, while Darwinists do not, shows that ID proponents are more interested in students getting a proper education while Darwinists are more interested in indoctrination and imposing their views on others.

Simple question, which I fully expect you to ignore;

How does one apply critical thinking to a scientific topic?

SkinnyHead: Encouraging students to analyze, evaluate, and critique scientific explanation

What the fark do you think science is all about? And ID is a crock of shiat, i can destroy the core tenet of it, irreducible complexity, with one pic and one sentence. Go ahead, dare me.

WhyteRaven74: Go ahead, dare me.

bulldg4life: Critics of evolution said they were thrilled with Friday's move. "Texas has sent a clear message that evolution should be taught as a scientific theory open to critical scrutiny, not as a sacred dogma that can't be questioned," said Dr. John West, a senior fellow at the Discovery Institute, a Seattle think tank that argues an intelligent designer created life. [emphasis added]

Boys and girls, can you say "shameless hypocrite"?

ninjakirby: static.tvguide.com

Since we both know the dare isn't forthcoming, what the hell, I'll do it anyways.

The picture,



the sentence,

The above is the Mandelbrot set, which while having what could be termed a complex appearance is given by one equation and this one equation is also responsible for the endless zooming possible.

I kinda like the whole "ID proponents support critical thinking while Darwinists do not".

It completely misses everything about the idea of a "scientific theory" and, well, basically everything that has to do with science and it also happens to miss the part about how evolution got that way because of critical thinking and factual information.

But, it is funny to say as some sort of proof that ID nutjobs are only looking for real science.

bulldg4life: I kinda like the whole "ID proponents support critical thinking while Darwinists do not".

I just like the term "Darwinist" or "evolutionist" in general. It's the verbal / textual equivalent of an enormous flashing neon sign that says "MORON".

As a Texas teacher (English, thank god. If I were a science teacher, I'd have to quit or go on a rampage in Austin), this makes me sick to my soul. ID has no place in the classroom as it promotes one religious idea and has no scientific proof whatsoever. With Evolution, you have scientific proof. You can see that things have evolved. You can prove it.

This is absolutely ridiculous that the State Board of Education would even THINK this was ok to do. I know that when I cast my ballot for the SBE soon, I will be voting out these fundamentalist morons.

Goddammit! Now I'm freaking pissed! HULK SMASH!!!

/hates stupidity and ignorance
//especially when it comes from supposedly intelligent and educated people

tudorgurl: I know that when I cast my ballot for the SBE soon, I will be voting out these fundamentalist morons.

TFarker Nobodyn0se's mother is running to unseat Cynthia Dunbar.

Early stages atm, but some information available on the quick ActBlue donation site they have up. I'm sure you can get more information out of him via email, in his profile.

WhyteRaven74: The above is the Mandelbrot set, which while having what could be termed a complex appearance is given by one equation and this one equation is also responsible for the endless zooming possible.

Pff. I can beat that biologically.


Romanesco Broccoli

NewportBarGuy: I give up.

I was looking for a post that summed up my feelings and yours does it perfectly. Exactly my sentiments.

For old time's sake:

Sweet... Popcorn anyone?

Half Indian, half Chinese.

I for one welcome our new Asian overloards.

So they don't teach "doubts" in math, physics, chemistry, english, physical education, foreign languages.....but they're going to teach these doubts in biology?

ftfa: That influence has diminished, said Jay Diskey, executive director of the Association of American Publishers' school division, as districts and statewide boards of education have become more likely to scrutinize texts approved in other states. Desktop publishing also has made it easier for companies to amend textbooks to suit different markets.

ha ha cretards, it only matters in texas.