If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.
Fark SearchWeb Fark

         more options... Create account

(Washington Post) Interesting The war in Afghanistan to become more American and less NATO, whose European members are as reluctant to deploy more troops as they are to admit that they actually enjoyed "Baywatch"   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 242
More: Interesting  

242 Comments   (+0 »)


Fark.com's  Political Inclination Thermometric Analyzer:
Neutral 3.28% Fascist
Archived thread
First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all
 
hubiestubert [TotalFark] 2009-03-26 11:07:34 AM  
Just waiting for the French to complain bitterly that they're being excluded from the table if the situation on the ground turns around.

People wonder why I have such disdain for the EU governments' ability to react to international crisis, and this is part of the reason. Between NATO signatories pretty much sending token forces, to UN resolutions that wind up being nothing more than strongly worded letters, and then demanding to be cut in for contracts after the dust settles and critical of every juncture, but unwilling to commit anything themselves, there's not a lot to be impressed by.

Plenty of folks want to point fingers, but when it comes down to putting boots on the ground, few nations are willing to do more than cluck their tongues and make noises about sanctions that don't really do much. Which is part of the point. Plenty of European companies make tidy profits from the status quo, and if their governments DID something, it would upset the applecart.

 
Man On Fire 2009-03-26 11:38:17 AM  
hubiestubert: Just waiting for the French to complain bitterly that they're being excluded from the table if the situation on the ground turns around.

People wonder why I have such disdain for the EU governments' ability to react to international crisis, and this is part of the reason. Between NATO signatories pretty much sending token forces, to UN resolutions that wind up being nothing more than strongly worded letters, and then demanding to be cut in for contracts after the dust settles and critical of every juncture, but unwilling to commit anything themselves, there's not a lot to be impressed by.

Plenty of folks want to point fingers, but when it comes down to putting boots on the ground, few nations are willing to do more than cluck their tongues and make noises about sanctions that don't really do much. Which is part of the point. Plenty of European companies make tidy profits from the status quo, and if their governments DID something, it would upset the applecart.


the US's attitude of "you guys are useless, we'll do it" doesn't help either. neither does our refusal to submit to international courts.

 
Bored Horde 2009-03-26 11:51:03 AM  
A lot of Canadian troops have made anonymous comments that the US Special Forces are as much a barrier to peace in the area as the Taleban. Something about blowing up a building in the middle of a crowded village with a thousand pound bomb souring relations with the locals.

 
MugzyBrown [TotalFark] 2009-03-26 11:52:25 AM  
Man On Fire: the US's attitude of "you guys are useless, we'll do it" doesn't help either.

Well if it's true, it's true

Man On Fire: neither does our refusal to submit to international courts.

Nooo way.

 
necropoultryac 2009-03-26 11:55:30 AM  
Nuke em.

Fin

 
Philip J. Fry [TotalFark] 2009-03-26 11:56:17 AM  
Compared to the rest of the interventions the US has made, Afghanistan is one of the few places that wasn't seriously farked up by Europe. Pretty sure it's cool for NATO nations to bail out from Afghanistan at this point.

On the other hand, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, India/Pakistan and most of Africa along with Vietnam were all situations created by European powers who then ditched their responsibilities to solve the mess. Then they whine when the US acts as the world police coming through and clean up all the shiat left behind. So they kinda owe us.

 
Farkomatic 2009-03-26 11:56:28 AM  
I, for one, am shocked to discover that the Bush strategy of taking a soft steaming dump on our friends and allies may not have worked well.

 
Accolade 2009-03-26 11:57:14 AM  
*long exasperated sigh*

Is anyone actually surprised?

 
Crocodilly_Pontifex [TotalFark] 2009-03-26 11:57:17 AM  
Uh, subby, i don't know what you've been reading, but europe loved baywatch, for a different reason than you might think...

irestidelcarlino.files.wordpress.com

 
Cat Food Sandwiches 2009-03-26 11:57:44 AM  
Bring all our troops home from everywhere in the world. Then concentrate on a great defence.

 
Eidolon 2009-03-26 11:57:51 AM  
Fruitcakes.

/I read the headline; I've heard all I need to hear.

 
onyxia 2009-03-26 11:58:14 AM  
Man On Fire: hubiestubert: Just waiting for the French to complain bitterly that they're being excluded from the table if the situation on the ground turns around.

People wonder why I have such disdain for the EU governments' ability to react to international crisis, and this is part of the reason. Between NATO signatories pretty much sending token forces, to UN resolutions that wind up being nothing more than strongly worded letters, and then demanding to be cut in for contracts after the dust settles and critical of every juncture, but unwilling to commit anything themselves, there's not a lot to be impressed by.

Plenty of folks want to point fingers, but when it comes down to putting boots on the ground, few nations are willing to do more than cluck their tongues and make noises about sanctions that don't really do much. Which is part of the point. Plenty of European companies make tidy profits from the status quo, and if their governments DID something, it would upset the applecart.

the US's attitude of "you guys are useless, we'll do it" doesn't help either. neither does our refusal to submit to international courts.


Considering that, of the NATO countries obligated to help, only the Americans, Brits and Canadians actually have rules of engagement that allow combat, I think its justified to call the non-fighting armies useless here.

 
liam76 2009-03-26 11:59:50 AM  
But I though Obama will help the EU un-clench their fist, and use his popularity to increase EU support for Afghanistan.


Bored Horde: A lot of Canadian troops have made anonymous comments that the US Special Forces are as much a barrier to peace in the area as the Taleban. Something about blowing up a building in the middle of a crowded village with a thousand pound bomb souring relations with the locals.

I have heard anonymous comments that Canadian forces refuse to engage the enemy and as long a snot directly confronted that they will do nothing. Same with German and french forces.

I have heard from anonymous comments that your mother is a whore.

What is your point?

Everyone over there in the military, regardless of their country has a tough job, and they are bound to biatch. However unless there is an official complaint or traceable facts, I don;t care what anonymous commenters have to say.

 
HotWingConspiracy [TotalFark] 2009-03-26 12:00:07 PM  
In about a month we're going to start seeing republicans suddnely becoming peaceniks and screaming "WAG THE DOG!".

 
Cyborg77 2009-03-26 12:00:59 PM  
www.wayfaring.com

Germans love the Hoff.

 
Crocodilly_Pontifex [TotalFark] 2009-03-26 12:02:05 PM  
Cyborg77: Germans love the Hoff.

I SOOOOO beat you.

 
somedane 2009-03-26 12:02:35 PM  
Considering that, of the NATO countries obligated to help, only the Americans, Brits and Canadians actually have rules of engagement that allow combat, I think its justified to call the non-fighting armies useless here.

Denmark and Holland have troops in the southern parts of Afghanistan too, and go out on combat patrols/hearts and minds missions. In fact we've been in that area since the war started. I know most Americans don't really give a fark, but that's how it is.
Feel free to mock the French for being pussies tho

 
hubiestubert [TotalFark] 2009-03-26 12:02:37 PM  
Man On Fire: the US's attitude of "you guys are useless, we'll do it" doesn't help either. neither does our refusal to submit to international courts.

The US has been doing the heavy lifting in damn near every international crisis--with few exceptions. Angola was one such, and it was frippin' Cuba that stepped up the plate there.

Roll that around a bit. Cuba.

In the case of Georgia, it took the Russians to stop a full scale ethnic cleansing while NATO and the UN dithered back in the '90s.

In part, that's the problem that I see with EU involvement, it's is a history of watching bad things happen, and then looking to either send aid after the fact, or simply hold onto airports or key pieces of infrastructure, and hope that people can make it to them. Otherwise, good luck.

Without the US involvement--diplomatically and with military aid--the Bosnian conflict would have continued for how long, while Europe wrung its hands and sighed.

 
nastyboi 2009-03-26 12:02:41 PM  
Bored Horde: A lot of Canadian troops have made anonymous comments that the US Special Forces are as much a barrier to peace in the area as the Taleban. Something about blowing up a building in the middle of a crowded village with a thousand pound bomb souring relations with the locals.

canada has had their own PR problems with the locals.

Link (new window)
Link (new window)
Link (new window)

Subby is right. NATO "allies" have been letting Canada and the US do all the heavy lifting.

 
ScottMpls 2009-03-26 12:02:52 PM  
The OBVIOUS tag must be on patrol.

 
onyxia 2009-03-26 12:05:26 PM  
somedane: Considering that, of the NATO countries obligated to help, only the Americans, Brits and Canadians actually have rules of engagement that allow combat, I think its justified to call the non-fighting armies useless here.

Denmark and Holland have troops in the southern parts of Afghanistan too, and go out on combat patrols/hearts and minds missions. In fact we've been in that area since the war started. I know most Americans don't really give a fark, but that's how it is.
Feel free to mock the French for being pussies tho


Crap, sorry about that; I was mainly thinking of the french and the germans.

 
GaryPDX [TotalFark] 2009-03-26 12:06:56 PM  
Looks like they don't want to fight Obama's war either. But they will take hundreds of billions of dollars through the AIG European Funding Department.

 
the_chief 2009-03-26 12:07:24 PM  
The best defense is a good defense.

 
wmoonfox 2009-03-26 12:08:52 PM  
TFA: the U.S. administration has asked the allies to tell it what more they can contribute in terms of financing, training for Afghan forces, and civilian experts in every sector, from agriculture to governance -- "essentially whatever you can give us to free up an American to do something else actually fight," the former official said.

I understand EU partners wanting to get out of the mess that is Iraq -- I never wanted us over there in the first place. We all went into Afghanistan together, though. If you can't live up to the commitment you made when you entered into the treaty, don't expect us to do so, either.

 
Modest Proposal 2009-03-26 12:09:43 PM  
Land wars in Asia and all that.

 
brainiac-dumdum [TotalFark] 2009-03-26 12:10:40 PM  
GaryPDX: Looks like they don't want to fight Obama's war either. But they will take hundreds of billions of dollars through the AIG European Funding Department.

go away

 
apeiron242 2009-03-26 12:10:55 PM  
Bored Horde: A lot of Canadian troops have made anonymous comments that the US Special Forces are as much a barrier to peace in the area as the Taleban. Something about blowing up a building in the middle of a crowded village with a thousand pound bomb souring relations with the locals.

If the bad guys would stop hiding in the villages, these things wouldn't happen.

Oh, right, the Taliban aren't bad guys, they're freedom fighters. More than that, they are religious refugees fleeing persecution, right?

somedane: Considering that, of the NATO countries obligated to help, only the Americans, Brits and Canadians actually have rules of engagement that allow combat, I think its justified to call the non-fighting armies useless here.

Denmark and Holland have troops in the southern parts of Afghanistan too, and go out on combat patrols/hearts and minds missions. In fact we've been in that area since the war started. I know most Americans don't really give a fark, but that's how it is.
Feel free to mock the French for being pussies tho


You're just as guilty of stereotyping. Read your post again.

 
Crocodilly_Pontifex [TotalFark] 2009-03-26 12:11:23 PM  
GaryPDX: Looks like they don't want to fight Obama's war either.

wait wait wait, back the truck up.

"Obama's War?"

bush started the war there, and the situation is destabilizing.

he doesn't want to start ANYTHING, he wants to farking finish it.

that being said, i know you're the famous garypdx, and you're a tooroll

/thats tool and troll squashed together.

 
brainiac-dumdum [TotalFark] 2009-03-26 12:12:27 PM  
wmoonfox: TFA: the U.S. administration has asked the allies to tell it what more they can contribute in terms of financing, training for Afghan forces, and civilian experts in every sector, from agriculture to governance -- "essentially whatever you can give us to free up an American to do something else actually fight," the former official said.

I understand EU partners wanting to get out of the mess that is Iraq -- I never wanted us over there in the first place. We all went into Afghanistan together, though. If you can't live up to the commitment you made when you entered into the treaty, don't expect us to do so, either.


Considering Afghanistan is much closer to Europe than the US, one would think the Europeans would be more motivated to stabilize that area.

 
Hideously Gigantic Smurf 2009-03-26 12:14:20 PM  
Gee, I can't imagine why. I mean, it's not like we shamelessly abused and squandered the good will of our allies or anything.
media0.dropshots.com

 
whereisian 2009-03-26 12:14:22 PM  
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the US pulled out a huge chunk of their forces to go play in Iraq?

 
onyxia 2009-03-26 12:14:50 PM  
Crocodilly_Pontifex: GaryPDX: Looks like they don't want to fight Obama's war either.

wait wait wait, back the truck up.

"Obama's War?"

bush started the war there, and the situation is destabilizing.

he doesn't want to start ANYTHING, he wants to farking finish it.

that being said, i know you're the famous garypdx, and you're a tooroll

/thats tool and troll squashed together.


Its beyond dispute that Bush started the war in Iraq, but saying Bush "started" the war in Afghanistan is like saying Roosevelt started the war with Japan.

 
Edsel 2009-03-26 12:16:28 PM  
Does ANYBODY RTFA anymore? America is taking the lead role in Afghanistan by choice.

 
Hideously Gigantic Smurf 2009-03-26 12:16:38 PM  
hubiestubert: Plenty of folks want to point fingers, but when it comes down to putting boots on the ground

Yeah, how's that working out for us again?

 
brainiac-dumdum [TotalFark] 2009-03-26 12:16:50 PM  
apeiron242 If the bad guys would stop hiding in the villages, these things wouldn't happen.

Bad guys? Real life isn't like G.I. Joe. If there are "bad guys" hiding in villages we should employ delicate tactical responses rather than simply blowing schnit up. That crap makes us look bad and does nothing more but convince potential "bad guys" we're just out to kill Muslims indiscriminately.

 
General Zang 2009-03-26 12:18:00 PM  
Perhaps if the United States stopped getting into elective large-scale shooting wars every ten years... like clockwork... then they would have less need of armed backup?

Suppose you had a brother. Suppose your brother was a foot taller than you, and used steroids, so he was huge and muscled-up, and constantly getting into roid-rage-induced bar fights.

Ever goddamn weekend, he would get into a new barfight... like clockwork... and then biatch and moan about how you never responded to his frantic 1am phone calls to drag yourself out of your house, and down to the bar, so you could back-up his roid-rage ass in yet another senseless fight.

Personally, I don't think the problem is with NATO.

The problem is with the United States, and its addiction to warfare.

 
Crunch61 [recently expired TotalFark] 2009-03-26 12:18:32 PM  
Get... the hell... out.

 
brainiac-dumdum [TotalFark] 2009-03-26 12:19:36 PM  
General Zang:

Personally, I don't think the problem is with NATO.

The problem is with the United States, and its addiction to warfare.


but we have all these cool expensive toys, I mean weapons, no wait, I mean toys.

 
MetalMoe 2009-03-26 12:19:48 PM  
Edsel: Does ANYBODY RTFA anymore? America is taking the lead role in Afghanistan by choice.

No one wants to let facts get in the way of a good ol' flame war.

 
Pythagoras 2009-03-26 12:20:40 PM  
This is bad news...for Obama

 
GaryPDX [TotalFark] 2009-03-26 12:21:27 PM  
Edsel: Does ANYBODY RTFA anymore? America is taking the lead role in Afghanistan by choice.

War Mongers!!!

 
Antimatter 2009-03-26 12:21:44 PM  
MugzyBrown: Man On Fire: the US's attitude of "you guys are useless, we'll do it" doesn't help either.

Well if it's true, it's true

Man On Fire: neither does our refusal to submit to international courts.

Nooo way.


Why is it the right hates the idea of Americans being tried for war crimes in international courts?

As for Euopes hesitation, I'd imagine is a question of funding and the mental effects of world wars caused by entangled alliances.

As for Companies in europe profiting form these conflicts? The US does the same thing. Oil for Food was a scandal because we didn't like our cut, not because it was happening.

 
whereisian 2009-03-26 12:21:49 PM  
Edsel: Does ANYBODY RTFA anymore?

Quit being a keener or I'll pants you.

 
Crocodilly_Pontifex [TotalFark] 2009-03-26 12:22:00 PM  
onyxia: Crocodilly_Pontifex: GaryPDX: Looks like they don't want to fight Obama's war either.

wait wait wait, back the truck up.

"Obama's War?"

bush started the war there, and the situation is destabilizing.

he doesn't want to start ANYTHING, he wants to farking finish it.

that being said, i know you're the famous garypdx, and you're a tooroll

/thats tool and troll squashed together.

Its beyond dispute that Bush started the war in Iraq, but saying Bush "started" the war in Afghanistan is like saying Roosevelt started the war with Japan.


touche'

im just trying to point out (however clumsily) that this isn't obama's war, its OUR war.

OUR soldiers, OUR sister, OUR brothers, OUR fathers, OUR mothers are over there fighting and dying.

the conflict is OURS.

and remember, afghanistan is the one where EVERYONE thinks we should be fighting.

 
WFern 2009-03-26 12:23:01 PM  
hubiestubert: Just waiting for the French to complain bitterly that they're being excluded from the table if the situation on the ground turns around.

People wonder why I have such disdain for the EU governments' ability to react to international crisis, and this is part of the reason. Between NATO signatories pretty much sending token forces, to UN resolutions that wind up being nothing more than strongly worded letters, and then demanding to be cut in for contracts after the dust settles and critical of every juncture, but unwilling to commit anything themselves, there's not a lot to be impressed by.

Plenty of folks want to point fingers, but when it comes down to putting boots on the ground, few nations are willing to do more than cluck their tongues and make noises about sanctions that don't really do much. Which is part of the point. Plenty of European companies make tidy profits from the status quo, and if their governments DID something, it would upset the applecart.


This is the same reason people are dying in Darfur. If the US weren't occupied with Iraq to boot, I'd place blame there. As it is, the European countries have done jack with little excuse.

 
GaryPDX [TotalFark] 2009-03-26 12:23:10 PM  
Crocodilly_Pontifex: GaryPDX: Looks like they don't want to fight Obama's war either.

wait wait wait, back the truck up.

"Obama's War?"

bush started the war there, and the situation is destabilizing.

he doesn't want to start ANYTHING, he wants to farking finish it.

that being said, i know you're the famous garypdx, and you're a tooroll

/thats tool and troll squashed together.


Famous?..Moi? oh c'mon. Obama could pull out of Afghanistan. But noooooo.

 
GaryPDX [TotalFark] 2009-03-26 12:24:10 PM  
Crocodilly_Pontifex: im just trying to point out (however clumsily) that this isn't obama's war, its OUR war.

OUR soldiers, OUR sister, OUR brothers, OUR fathers, OUR mothers are over there fighting and dying.

the conflict is OURS.


That's NOT what Liberals said before the election.

 
Hideously Gigantic Smurf 2009-03-26 12:24:17 PM  
General Zang: The problem is with the United States, and its addiction to warfare.

Typical lib, blame the 'roided-up barfly first!

 
MmmBadEggs 2009-03-26 12:24:49 PM  
Yeah but what are their feelings on "Baywatch Nights?"

 
brainiac-dumdum [TotalFark] 2009-03-26 12:25:13 PM  
GaryPDX: Crocodilly_Pontifex: im just trying to point out (however clumsily) that this isn't obama's war, its OUR war.

OUR soldiers, OUR sister, OUR brothers, OUR fathers, OUR mothers are over there fighting and dying.

the conflict is OURS.

That's NOT what Liberals said before the election.


Yeas, about Afghanistan that is exactly what we were saying.

also, go away

 
Displayed 50 of 242 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Last | Show all


[Continue Farking]