Yes, it's asinine to reach out to moderate elements of their movement to secure a more stable country where the radical elements can't cause more damage.

UNC_Samurai: Yes, it's asinine to reach out to moderate elements of their movement to secure a more stable country where the radical elements can't cause more damage.

This. we need ENEMIES to focus on, lest we realize how much we suck.

How dare that autonomous democracy over there determine who can run for office!!!!!

If they are just going to hand over the country, then why did they go in there in the first place?

Man On Fire: This. we need ENEMIES to focus on, lest we realize how much we suck.

True. Two Minute Hate anyone?

Well, why not? Republicans have already admitted they look to them for ideas.

All Politics is the continuation of War by other means.

abb3w: All Politics is the continuation of War by other means.

+1 for being clever

No big deal.

Even if the Taliban were allowed to form a political party, about 50% of the Afghani population (women) would never vote for them, not to mention all the men harmed during their reign of terror, and the children that can vote now post-Taliban government.

They'll be trivialized, if they haven't been already.

abb3w: All Politics is the continuation of War by other means.

How's that working out for you? Being clever?

You can't declare war on an enigmatic concept.
The War on Terra™ was asinine to begin with.
How about calling this the The War on War™

chemical_angel: How's that working out for you? Being clever?

Only after disaster can we be resurrected.

So we go there to create a democracy and we're pissed that they use it?

Haha... Look... if you want to cut the legs out from under the radicals of the world, it's very simple... you provide a legitimate way for them to express themselves and you will attract the moderates of their group and then legitimize them with results. This weakens the power of the radicals involved and in the end you have a group that is grateful to some degree and the radical elements will be largely marginalized. :)

You see... the problem is that people sometimes think that the only way to get what you want is with bullets and bombs. When sometimes all you really need to do is lift the right people up instead of just trying to tear everything down.

That whole black or white thing... the wrong or right thing... maybe let go of that a little and recognize the shades of gray. I know it's tough since you can't tell the difference between a dark blue pair of socks and a black pair of socks... but at least farking try for all of our sakes.

Mythy: If they are just going to hand over the country, then why did they go in there in the first place?

To stop Al Queda from using it as a training ground, to kill or capture Al Queda members [including Bin Laden], and to disrupt Al Queda's operations.

"They" want to "hand over the country" at some point; the idea wasn't to rule it forever like a colony or occupied territory.

How is this any different than the IRA or Hamas?

I wonder -- on what side of the fence the Taliban party will sit regarding the issue of throwing acid in young schoolgirls faces?

"So much for the War On Terror"

You're behind the times subby. It's now the war on Man-Caused Disaster.

mainstreet62: No big deal.

Even if the Taliban were allowed to form a political party, about 50% of the Afghani population (women) would never vote for them, not to mention all the men harmed during their reign of terror, and the children that can vote now post-Taliban government.

They'll be trivialized, if they haven't been already.

Really? You are sure of that? Women would not seek the safety of a repressive-but ORDERED system when they face chaos at the hands of bandits or Northern Alliance yahoos? Really? You think the Taliban will be trivialized?
The Taliban will garner massive support-in much the same way the commies still get support in the former USSR-public order, even when awful, is better then percieved anarchy and an unkown future.

mainstreet62: No big deal.

Even if the Taliban were allowed to form a political party, about 50% of the Afghani population (women) would never vote for them, not to mention all the men harmed during their reign of terror, and the children that can vote now post-Taliban government.

They'll be trivialized, if they haven't been already.


Women?? they can vote??? very un-islamic, how will they vote if they can't leave the home unescorted

Mythy: If they are just going to hand over the country, then why did they go in there in the first place?

Cuz them turrorists made us ascared and we had to smack somebody.

3skin: I wonder -- on what side of the fence the Taliban party will sit regarding the issue of throwing acid in young schoolgirls faces?

On the side with the jar full of acid in hand, waiting for a school girl to walk by.

3skin: I wonder -- on what side of the fence the Taliban party will sit regarding the issue of throwing acid in young schoolgirls faces?

Complex issue with many pros and cons? Why not just shoot them? That'll learn'em.

"They're E-e-e-v-i-i-l!"

Let Afghanistan handle themselves.. We'll pull out.. They're adults.

Submitter, often political violence and unrest stem from a particular group's inability to participate in the political process, and if that inability to do so is thrust upon them by the governing authority, they often feel they must resort to subversion and violence. Come back tomorrow, submitter, and I shall be happy to enlighten you about other things you don't understand, like the truth about Santa Claus.

Yes, let's encourage the political process!

Unless of course, you elect Hamas or something. Then we gotta have words. :D

Nabb1: Submitter, often political violence and unrest stem from a particular group's inability to participate in the political process, and if that inability to do so is thrust upon them by the governing authority, they often feel they must resort to subversion and violence. Come back tomorrow, submitter, and I shall be happy to enlighten you about other things you don't understand, like the truth about Santa Claus.

How about brutal theocracy who ran a country threw terror and violence, I dont see a lack of participation in the political process at hand when the tailiban was in power the first time, but still behaved like complete dicks.

Maybe you try to sugar the taliban to much. These guys did not talk about taxes and road development when they were in power the first time. They executed women for daring to show ankles and being raped, and stoned people to death. You really, REALLY think letting these guy form a political party and gain power is a great idea?

You've got to take the bad with the good. Democracy allows everyone to be heard, despite of how unpatriotic, stupid, corrupt, asinine, and unrepresentative as these groups might be (e.g. Democrats and Republicans).

Mythy: If they are just going to hand over the country, then why did they go in there in the first place?

We went after Al Qaeda, not the Taliban. The Taliban were a secondary target in that they were impeding our hunt for Al Qaeda, and that (of course) they didn't want to let our army operate in their country.

adamgreeney: So we go there to create a democracy and we're pissed that they use it?

Who's "we"; subby? Sounds like the US is considering it politically, I don't think "we're" pissed about them using democracy. Democracy doesn't really favor fringe elements, they're not much to worry about, at least not in elections I'd imagine.

If only there were some other backwater mid eastern country where a terrorist organization was able to form a political party and participate in the democratic process that we could look to to see how this might end...

W.T.F???

How does N.O.W. feel about this?

/You remember N.O.W. National Organization of Women. Real concerned with women's rights.
//They don't seem to have an opinion on the Taliban.
/// (crickets)
////Yeah, what ever happened to N.O.W.?

Nabb1: like the truth about Santa Claus.

That post is so full of win.

atomicmask: How about brutal theocracy who ran a country threw terror and violence,

Thing is, there were no political parties when they were in charge. They weren't a part of the process of government, they were the process. Also, they never ran the whole country. Really, Afghanistan as a united country only exists on maps.

It's a good thing bush still isn't president or this would be a stupid idea.

brx: Let Afghanistan handle themselves.. We'll pull out.. They're adults.

I don't pull out because of adults, I pull out to avoid children

Also who doesn't get it the Taliban isn't al-Qaeda, and not everyone from one group likes everyone in the other. After all, al-Qaeda has lots of non Afghanis in it. And that isn't going to sit well with some Afghanis, having ferners causing them to get bombed and shot at.

WhyteRaven74: Nabb1: like the truth about Santa Claus.

That post is so full of win.

atomicmask: How about brutal theocracy who ran a country threw terror and violence,

Thing is, there were no political parties when they were in charge. They weren't a part of the process of government, they were the process. Also, they never ran the whole country. Really, Afghanistan as a united country only exists on maps.

So a group who ran a territory threw terror and violence is expected to not repeat the same behavior again in a new country. As if they wont drive door to door killing people until only people who vote for them are in a territory.

Yeah, I'd say it's a healthy democracy when a foreign country is calling the shots on who's "allowed"

UNC_Samurai: Yes, it's asinine to reach out to moderate elements of their movement to secure a more stable country where the radical elements can't cause more damage.

What "moderate elements"? Link (new window)

Excuse me. Are you the Judean People's Front?

JohnnyC: if you want to cut the legs out from under the radicals of the world, it's very simple... you provide a legitimate way for them to express themselves and you will attract the moderates of their group and then legitimize them with results.

Bingo. The moderates are usually the ones who are appointed to represent because everyone knows that nobody will listen to the radicals.

At the same time, with an avenue of expression, the group now has the power to pull the other groups their directions, whether they like it or not.

Yeah, nobody is truly happy in the end, but when it comes to compromise, those are the games we play.

JohnnyC: Haha... Look... if you want to cut the legs out from under the radicals of the world, it's very simple... you provide a legitimate way for them to express themselves and you will attract the moderates of their group and then legitimize them with results. This weakens the power of the radicals involved and in the end you have a group that is grateful to some degree and the radical elements will be largely marginalized. :)



After all, it worked so well with Hamas.

SGF: Yeah, I'd say it's a healthy democracy when a foreign country is calling the shots on who's "allowed"

About has healthy as a democracy where the super-wealthy elite in one of two groups call the shots on whose "allowed".`

give me doughnuts: After all, it worked so well with Hamas.

So much for my subtle approach...

I don't see the problem. The US has allowed the GOP to form a political party at home. So what gives?

It has become increasingly apparent that Afghanistan will only resolve itself via internal overthrow/rejection of the Taliban (sub here whatever crazed group). It has been shown before that change in that country cannot be performed by outsiders and including the Taliban in the political process crystallizes this. Problem is that it does not appear any uprising will happen anytime soon.

Lets GTFO now!

mainstreet62: No big deal.

Even if the Taliban were allowed to form a political party, about 50% of the Afghani population (women) would never vote for them, not to mention all the men harmed during their reign of terror, and the children that can vote now post-Taliban government.

They'll be trivialized, if they haven't been already.

Old Man from scene 24: mainstreet62: No big deal.

Even if the Taliban were allowed to form a political party, about 50% of the Afghani population (women) would never vote for them, not to mention all the men harmed during their reign of terror, and the children that can vote now post-Taliban government.

They'll be trivialized, if they haven't been already.


Women?? they can vote??? very un-islamic, how will they vote if they can't leave the home unescorted

atomicmask: So a group who ran a territory threw terror and violence is expected to not repeat the same behavior again in a new country

A funny thing happens to people when they're expected to act like grown ups. Just ask the IRA.

We did the same thing with the south, make a whole bunch of people who murdered others, treated some of the population as he they weren't human, and believed their sub-section of the human race was superior and gave them a political party, now moderate republicans are more respected by the public as a whole. Treat the extremist over there just like we treated them over here. KKK = (domestic)Terrists.