We are royally screwed. Thanks all you geezers!

Don't worry. The Fed will just buy up another $845 billion of debt. It's fun and easy to create money!

That fun little chart that always gets thrown into political-party "who's the biggest spender" flame wars is going to need an entirely new scale. Those little positive bumps during Clinton's term are going to be nearly flatline on the new chart.

Now I wish we'd invaded Iran when we had the chance. Looking back at previous budgets shows that you pretty much get stuff like that for free (or at least at sharply discounted rates).

All this other crap about trying to actually do things to benefit America is just straight up expense, we may as well be burning cash in big furnaces.

What sucks is, after Obama leaves and there is some semblance of stability again, we're still $9 Tn deeper in the hole, and the (R)'s will go on a campaign of "Fiscal Responsibility", and most likely win, because we're idiots.

I truly LOVE watching the right suddenly care about deficits.

The Pentagon "loses" 3.3 trillion and nobody says a farking thing.

But somebody dares to try and do something for Americans who are not defense contractors and it's time to get our whaaargarbl on.

.845 more? Does not seem like a lot...

What's the big deal?

Wait, is that a "Tr" or a "B"??

The positive bumps under Clinton came with a Republican congress. Political dialectic at work. With one party in charge of everything, Republican or Democrat, ridiculous spending is par for the course. No one should be surprised by this.

OMG....Barney Frank is at it again!

can someone explain this in terms independents can understand? Something along the lines of how high the extra .835 trillion would be if it were a stack of $100 bills?

Don't worry, we can just tax the "rich" even more. After we're done ruining our currency and reach a situation where no one will buy our debt, the resulting crash will make that $250k rich line Obama talks about be somewhere around 28k.

aneki: Don't worry, we can just tax the "rich" even more. After we're done ruining our currency and reach a situation where no one will buy our debt, the resulting crash will make that $250k rich line Obama talks about be somewhere around 28k.

I take it you don't like the stimulus package

You Idiots: The positive bumps under Clinton came with a Republican congress. Political dialectic at work. With one party in charge of everything, Republican or Democrat, ridiculous spending is par for the course. No one should be surprised by this.

Except for the first two years under Clinton where he slashed the deficit with a Democratic Congress.

A budget that every Republican lined up against and swore up and down that it would destroy the economy.

And then they spent the next six years following Clinton's lead.

You Idiots: The positive bumps under Clinton came with a Republican congress. Political dialectic at work. With one party in charge of everything, Republican or Democrat, ridiculous spending is par for the course. No one should be surprised by this.

There is absolutely no place in a FARK politics thread for common sense or an intelligent comment sir!! You clearly have not read the rules.

-1 internet for You Idiots

Say hello to republican pres. in 2012! Thanks Obama! The more we learn about this administration, the worse it gets.

Man, how nice it must be to be a conservative right now. You get decades to royally fark the country and then bail, and when someone comes along and has to spend some coin to attempt to fix it, you get to wail and gnash your teeth at the fiscal irresponsibility.

You know what the best part is though? You're doing all of this in a country with possibly the lowest attention span and shortest memory of any, so you'll get away with it and be back in power to get the next cycle of destruction underway pretty soon.

priestrape: aneki: Don't worry, we can just tax the "rich" even more. After we're done ruining our currency and reach a situation where no one will buy our debt, the resulting crash will make that $250k rich line Obama talks about be somewhere around 28k.

I take it you don't like the stimulus package

Government spending increases can be appropriate during a downturn. However this "stimulus package" was absolute garbage. Instead of nationalizing, breaking up, and selling the pieces of "too big to fail" organizations, we shoveling money into them and not providing any oversight into the public funds usage.

Actual real infrastructure projects are only a tiny percent of the stimulus funds.

For 1.845T we could have just waived FICA taxes for two years and given businesses a 6.25% tax cut for every worker, and every worker a 6.25% pay raise. Your average $50k a year two income household with no fica would get an extra $260 a month out of that, not this piddly $8 a week or whatever the tax cut in the stimulus bill did.

So in summary, stimulus idea ok, stimulus implementation awful.

Look for Quadrillions on the financial fashion runway for Fall. It will be is the next black.

PC LOAD LETTER: I truly LOVE watching the right suddenly care about deficits.


Haha, yeah, it's a pretty good time, if it didn't make my heart weep.

bobbarker02: Man, how nice it must be to be a conservative right now. You get decades to royally fark the country and then bail, and when someone comes along and has to spend some coin to attempt to fix it, you get to wail and gnash your teeth at the fiscal irresponsibility.

You know what the best part is though? You're doing all of this in a country with possibly the lowest attention span and shortest memory of any, so you'll get away with it and be back in power to get the next cycle of destruction underway pretty soon.

Dude, this is how it has worked for 200 years. Good guy's in become bad guys, bad guys out become good guys. All the while the policy of both "sides" stays almost completely identical.

One side has some major partisan issue they push, the other side has a different one. The prol's choose sides and root for them.
It's like professional football, no matter what team you are rooting for you are still watching the NFL.

You should pull your head out of your partisan ass and pay attention.

Non direct stimulus spending does not work in a Service economy. It worked with FDR becuase we were a nation full of farms and factories.

Use the stimulus money to go directly to citizens and jack intrest rates to the moon. Debt payed off, banks in the clear, lower rates, carry on.

But of course, who would benefit from the poltical pandering if things worked out for the common citizen and the business class and not the political class?

aneki: Don't worry, we can just tax the "rich" even more. After we're done ruining our currency and reach a situation where no one will buy our debt, the resulting crash will make that $250k rich line Obama talks about be somewhere around 28k.

quite a prediction, and dire enough that we will be able to see if you are right within a few years.

obama trauma: Say hello to republican pres. in 2012! Thanks Obama! The more we learn about this administration, the worse it gets.


I am sure somebody with the Fark handle "Obama Trauma" will give a level-headed analysis of the administration.

PacersJAM3s: We are royally screwed. Thanks all you geezers!

Thank You Dick Cheney, GW Bush , and the other Drunken Sailors who passed themselves off as Republicans while laying waste to the Federal Government per orders of their Overlords, Grover Norquist and Slushie Rimjob

aneki: For 1.845T we could have just waived FICA taxes for two years and given businesses a 6.25% tax cut for every worker, and every worker a 6.25% pay raise. Your average $50k a year two income household with no fica would get an extra $260 a month out of that, not this piddly $8 a week or whatever the tax cut in the stimulus bill did.

I'd love to keep more of the money I earn. I loathe the idea of using our money to bail out a bunch of incompetent douchebags.But what I've come to believe is that giving ourselves more of own money will not have the impact on the economy - specifically on the banks' ability to loan money to the business community - that is required.

But I'm not an economist and, even if I was, we're in uncharted territory in which no one can say with any real conviction that they are certain what the right course of action is, including Obama.

What I'm tired of is those who are not certain what we should do (how could they be?), yet they are certain that what we are doing is wrong.

aneki: Your average $50k a year two income household with no fica would get an extra $260 a month out of that, not this piddly $8 a week or whatever the tax cut in the stimulus bill did.

So in summary, stimulus idea ok, stimulus implementation awful.

But our infrastructure would still suck.

Hibno: obama trauma: Say hello to republican pres. in 2012! Thanks Obama! The more we learn about this administration, the worse it gets.


I am sure somebody with the Fark handle "Obama Trauma" will give a level-headed analysis of the administration.

He didn't actually say that a Republican president in 2012 would be an even remotely good thing. He could be one of the incredibly rare actual independents on Fark or he could just be another jackass who will be "energized" by Palin's campaign.

Apik0r0s: The Pentagon "loses" 3.3 trillion and nobody says a farking thing.

But somebody dares to try and do something for Americans who are not defense contractors and it's time to get our whaaargarbl on.

^

It's the Democrats fault that the Republicans have been trying to starve the beast for 30 years!!!!!!

PALIN '012!!!

priestrape: What I'm tired of is those who are not certain what we should do (how could they be?), yet they are certain that what we are doing is wrong.

Well, moving wealth around so that the people at the top get more, and the people at the bottom stay get less doesn't sound like a great plan to me.

The fed just pumped 1 trillion cash into the market. Do you think you'll see any of that? The money you have in your wallet just lost % of value because of inflation. They are going to inflate the economy and where is that new money going? Certainly not to hard working low/middle income americans. Sure they'll get a little bit to keep them happy, but new media is now reporting on $165 million AIG bonuses, while the fed just introduced $1 trillion into the money markets, making all your money worth less. It's a good thing most americans are not informed about inflation, otherwise they might stand up to this.

Honest question. At what point to we officially become broke? Is there an actual finite limit or is it just when people stop lending us money?

PC LOAD LETTER: I truly LOVE watching the right suddenly care about deficits.

So your argument is that a deficit that's approaching 15% of GDP shouldn't be troublesome because we weren't storming the white house with pitchforks and torches when it was 4-5% of GDP?

andrewabc: Do you think you'll see any of that?

If I were to get it, I can promise you that I don't have the means or inclination to use it to improve our infrastructure, create jobs or make loans to businesses. So, in terms of what the stimulus is supposed to do, it's not important that I get some of it directly

its just money...

cameroncrazy1984: aneki: Your average $50k a year two income household with no fica would get an extra $260 a month out of that, not this piddly $8 a week or whatever the tax cut in the stimulus bill did.

So in summary, stimulus idea ok, stimulus implementation awful.

But our infrastructure would still suck.

Our infrastructure will still suck with this bill. Have you actually looked to see how much is actually infrastructure spending? You're in for a disappointment if you do.

Culann: PC LOAD LETTER: I truly LOVE watching the right suddenly care about deficits.

So your argument is that a deficit that's approaching 15% of GDP shouldn't be troublesome because we weren't storming the white house with pitchforks and torches when it was 4-5% of GDP?

Yeah, cause under Bush our GDP didn't grow all that much.

aneki: Our infrastructure will still suck with this bill. Have you actually looked to see how much is actually infrastructure spending? You're in for a disappointment if you do.

you're right - it's not enough. But it's not nothing

Apik0r0s: The Pentagon "loses" 3.3 trillion and nobody says a farking thing.

But somebody dares to try and do something for Americans who are not defense contractors and it's time to get our whaaargarbl on.

I'm sure that is true, but when I googled "pentagon 3.3 trillion" first hits are 9/11 truthers website...
Actual source?

My $0.02.

Freeze all government spending as of Monday 9am; no new programs whatsoever. Anything not already on the books ain't gonna happen. Anything on the books that needs cutting - either entirely or partially, cut it.

Oh wait. Can't do that. Everyone in Congress, the White House, and on K Street, has their new projects and their new ideas that they are trying to push through for their constituents and they are all vital to the national/American/public/economic/social interest.

So the real problem isn't that a $2 trillion deficit is too much, it apparently looks like that a $2 trillion deficit isn't enough because we, and I include myself in this as well, just sit by and do not hold people accountable for this disaster.

We don't know who spent it (Congress is not a "who" but a "what"). We don't understand the budget or how it operates. We just supply the money, our money.

Until we start holding people accountable as a united group of citizens nothing is going to change and as soon as Congressman Smith brings in another $1 billion to my district my outrage becomes moot. It's ok as long as the money benefits me and mine.

We are screwed. Permanently.

"Reagan proved deficits don't matter"

Former Vice President and current douchebag Dick Cheney.

priestrape: aneki: Our infrastructure will still suck with this bill. Have you actually looked to see how much is actually infrastructure spending? You're in for a disappointment if you do.

you're right - it's not enough. But it's not nothing

Yeah I'd say $145b is a lot of money either way you cut it. And creating something like a million jobs (with just the infrastructure spending) isn't a small feat either

cameroncrazy1984: Yeah I'd say $145b is a lot of money either way you cut it. And creating something like a million jobs (with just the infrastructure spending) isn't a small feat either

Only $145 billion when you have $2000 billion deficit will be spent on infrastructure? That doesn't sound like much.

Deficits are only problems when the other guy is in charge.

Culann: PC LOAD LETTER: I truly LOVE watching the right suddenly care about deficits.

So your argument is that a deficit that's approaching 15% of GDP shouldn't be troublesome because we weren't storming the white house with pitchforks and torches when it was 4-5% of GDP?

This is the same post PC DOUCHE LETTER makes in nearly every thread. Insert any Obama/Dem gaffe in place of "deficits", and you basically have every post he makes.

At least he's consistent.

priestrape: can someone explain this in terms independents can understand? Something along the lines of how high the extra .835 trillion would be if it were a stack of $100 bills?

Using the Bureau of Engraving's 0.11 mm thickness, that would be a 578 mile stack of Benjamins.

andrewabc: Only $145 billion when you have $2000 billion deficit will be spent on infrastructure? That doesn't sound like much.

please explain, in detail, the impact on the deficit, GDP, unemployment, banks' loaning capacity, inflation and job creation of the expenditures contained in the stimulus package versus those same figures when either doing nothing or choosing an alternative to the stimulus package (your choice).

what's that? You can't?

Good...neither can I. So stop pretending that you absolutely know that this is wrong and something else is right. You don't. No one does.

The only thing we know for sure is that talking points will have no impact on the economy. It's just more bullshiat to add to the pile

andrewabc: cameroncrazy1984: Yeah I'd say $145b is a lot of money either way you cut it. And creating something like a million jobs (with just the infrastructure spending) isn't a small feat either

Only $145 billion when you have $2000 billion deficit will be spent on infrastructure? That doesn't sound like much.

Paying down the deficit doesn't create jobs.

It is really old watching both sides argue that their side is better. Neither side will do what is best as long as that much money and power is given to the Federal government.

Introduce federal term limits to oust the lifers. Yes, I'm sure the problem is all the other Reps, not yours!

Repeal Federal Income Tax so funding and power returns to the States or Counties. Notice I did not say eliminate taxes.

Until then, just argue the other side is wrong or evil and watch things never change.

priestrape: Good...neither can I. So stop pretending that you absolutely know that this is wrong and something else is right. You don't. No one does.

The people in Washington seem to be awfully convinced that they DO now what is right and wrong. That is the problem that most people lie myself have.

So doing nothing costs the government $0 and could possibly have massive negative economic impact.

Doing something is going to cost over $1,845,000,000,000 with no guarantee that it will work and could possibly have massive negative economic impact.

The government didn't have the vision to foresee and avert this mess, what makes you thin they have the vision and foresight to get us out of it? When you are trying to find your way, you don't put the blind man on point.