It seems they didn't think out their whole "lynch the elitist snobs who know how to farm" cunning plan all the way through.

I prefer scotch and cigars myself but to each his own.

WTF is Zimbabwe's problem?

krelborne: WTF is Zimbabwe's problem?

Their economy was based on farming, and they seized the farmers' land and gave it to people who didn't know how to farm. That turns out to have been a bad thing.

Mugabe is not going to be out done by Omar.

Another fine win for socialism.

2chris2: krelborne: WTF is Zimbabwe's problem?

Their economy was based on farming, and they seized the farmers' land and gave it to people who didn't know how to farm. That turns out to have been a bad thing.

I knew that someone wasn't going to get it.

Nemo's Brother: Another fine win for socialism.

Zimbabwe, much like submitter, "surviving on beer and cigarettes"

I wonder if the Zimbabwe candidate ran on a platform of not raising taxes on the little guy? You know, since the little guy doesn't like beer and cigarettes so it won't hurt him financially.

2chris2: krelborne: WTF is Zimbabwe's problem?

Their economy was based on farming, and they seized the farmers' land and gave it to people who didn't know how to farm. That turns out to have been a bad thing.

Even worse. They gave it to political cronies who had no interest in farming. It just sits there unused.

flannelled fool: Zimbabwe, much like submitter, "surviving on beer and cigarettes"

I wonder if the Zimbabwe candidate ran on a platform of not raising taxes on the little guy? You know, since the little guy doesn't like beer and cigarettes so it won't hurt him financially.

They should call you Armstrong for the way you stretch. Still mad about the goddamn SCHIP which Obama campaigned on?

Rapmaster2000: 2chris2: krelborne: WTF is Zimbabwe's problem?

Their economy was based on farming, and they seized the farmers' land and gave it to people who didn't know how to farm. That turns out to have been a bad thing.

Even worse. They gave it to political cronies who had no interest in farming. It just sits there unused. After most of the equipment was sold off at scrap value.

Like I've said before... It wasn't always like that.


/In before Remove_All_Republicans starts his rant about how Michael Moore documentaries educated him to the fact that the downfall of Zimbabwe was all the fault of the west, and how Robert Mugabe is a hero.
//Seriously... that happened last time.

RemyDuron: Still mad about the goddamn SCHIP which Obama campaigned on?

Not mad, personally. But familiar enough with the demographics of smokers to know who is going to be hurt the worst by increasing taxes on cigarettes.

i suppose they wont have to suffer for long
according to the Wiki (new window)
the life expectancy for men is 37 years and the life expectancy for women is 34 years of age, the lowest in the world in 2006.

i would be expected to already be dead.
their history exposes most of the problems they face today.

Platinum.

They have a knack for survival. I understand it has to do with the policy of their former President.

"I prefer land to n*****s." (Cecil Rhodes)

Say what you will about Mugabe, at least he oppresses teh ghey, so he can't be all bad - right?

flannelled fool: RemyDuron: Still mad about the goddamn SCHIP which Obama campaigned on?

Not mad, personally. But familiar enough with the demographics of smokers to know who is going to be hurt the worst by increasing taxes on cigarettes.

Or helped the most, since they'll quit because they can't afford it.

Ontos:
Like I've said before... It wasn't always like that.

/In before Remove_All_Republicans starts his rant about how Michael Moore documentaries educated him to the fact that the downfall of Zimbabwe was all the fault of the west, and how Robert Mugabe is a hero.

I think Robert Mugabe is ten pounds of asshat in a five-pound sack, but getting misty-eyed and nostalgic for Rhodesia is basically the same thing as lamenting the "good old days" in apartheid South Africa.

Ontos:

/In before Remove_All_Republicans starts his rant about how Michael Moore documentaries educated him to the fact that the downfall of Zimbabwe was all the fault of the west, and how Robert Mugabe is a hero.
//Seriously... that happened last time.

That was a very, very common viewpoint held by most of the American left during the rape, murder, and theft of the white farmers and their land. It was only when the absurdity of it all reached epic levels that *most* were forced to reconsider their viewpoint.

/had this debate one too many times circa 01-04

flannelled fool: Not mad, personally. But familiar enough with the demographics of smokers to know who is going to be hurt the worst by increasing taxes on cigarettes.

Let me guess: smokers.

And by "hurt" you mean "Forced to consider quitting smoking".

/former smoker
//quit when I realized that cigarettes were soon going to be $5.00/pack
///and that I couldn't climb a flight of stairs without being winded.

schief2: is basically the same thing as lamenting the "good old days" in apartheid South Africa.

... just wait a few more years ;)

BMulligan: "I prefer land to n*****s." (Cecil Rhodes)

Say what you will about Mugabe, at least he oppresses teh ghey, so he can't be all bad - right?

Mugabe and Rhodes should be locked together in hell for all eternity.

And I'd like to once again announce that I one day hope to go to Zimbabwe and piss on Cecil Rhodes's grave.

chu2dogg: schief2: is basically the same thing as lamenting the "good old days" in apartheid South Africa.

... just wait a few more years ;)

That';s what people said five years ago, and five years before that. If you're predicting impending doom for South Africa, you'd better make a good case for it, cause otherwise you're just another racist idiot who thinks that blacks can't run a country.

Dwight_Yeast: If you're predicting impending doom for South Africa America, you'd better make a good case for it, cause otherwise you're just another racist idiot who thinks that blacks can't run a country.

FTFY. Looking at you, GOP.

Dwight_Yeast: Let me guess: smokers.

And by "hurt" you mean "Forced to consider quitting smoking".

/former smoker
//quit when I realized that cigarettes were soon going to be $5.00/pack
///and that I couldn't climb a flight of stairs without being winded.

No, I never got that bad. But I do understand just how tough a nicotine addiction can be. If your life sucks, and you're poor, paying more for the pleasure in a pack of cigarettes isn't going to stop a nicotine addict. Just make him/her poorer.

I mean if the administration really thought higher taxes would lower consumption, then the tax would be ineffective at raising revenue. Right?

/ gets out napkin and draws Laffer curve

//just because

flannelled fool: I mean if the administration really thought higher taxes would lower consumption, then the tax would be ineffective at raising revenue. Right?

Higher taxes DO lower consumption.

And it's a win-win thing: we reduce the number of smokers and we generate revenue. When the number of smokers hits zero, we'll just have to look for a new source of revenue.

Dwight_Yeast: Higher taxes DO lower consumption.

And it's a win-win thing: we reduce the number of smokers and we generate revenue. When the number of smokers hits zero, we'll just have to look for a new source of revenue.

Even I don't believe that. Cigarette use is falling off because people finally realize what a rip-off they are.

They don't even get you HIGH.

Dwight_Yeast: chu2dogg: schief2: is basically the same thing as lamenting the "good old days" in apartheid South Africa.

... just wait a few more years ;)

That';s what people said five years ago, and five years before that. If you're predicting impending doom for South Africa, you'd better make a good case for it, cause otherwise you're just another racist idiot who thinks that blacks can't run a country.

This is exactly what they said in Zimbabwe, right up until the mobs with machetes showed up at the door.

It's funny though, all bickering aside. When bringing this up to South Africans they get pretty intense. But you get a kind of look in their eye that deep down they really know its true. Their country will soon be no more. I mean with Zimbabwe right next door and all the same warning signs going on in their own country. The situation is clearly getting worse before it gets better. They will soon be a nation in exile and overtime culturally infused into their host countries. Sucks to be them.

chu2dogg: That was a very, very common viewpoint held by most of the American right about the American left during the rape, murder, and theft of the white farmers and their land.

FTFY. I am a bleeding heart liberal and I never saw anyone who was credible on left cheerleading the land grab in Zimbabwe. Or are we going to play the game of 'Paint all of the other side by the actions of a very few nutjobs' as I do believe in that game the right loses in a very bad way.

Befuddled: chu2dogg: That was a very, very common viewpoint held by most of the American right about the American left during the rape, murder, and theft of the white farmers and their land.

FTFY. I am a bleeding heart liberal and I never saw anyone who was credible on left cheerleading the land grab in Zimbabwe. Or are we going to play the game of 'Paint all of the other side by the actions of a very few nutjobs' as I do believe in that game the right loses in a very bad way.

It was the dominant viewpoint on DU and spilled over here plenty. The argument being that the land was unjustly stolen from them during Rhodesia.

Sorry you don't remember it. Most of the American left was absolutely batshiat crazy up until around 2005 or so. Til the moderates had to cool those voices for the sake of elections.

chu2dogg: It was the dominant viewpoint on DU and spilled over here plenty.

So is it fair so say all conservatives are characterized by Free Republic? Their viewpoint spills over here plenty as well.

Was going to comment until I read the thread and saw that vast intellects cool and unsympathetic had already spoken.

...

Hey Smitty, you're going to need caffeine to round out a balanced breakfast. That, and to become paranoid and twitchy.

whidbey: Even I don't believe that. Cigarette use is falling off because people finally realize what a rip-off they are.

Smoking declines as taxes increase

All the 1980's and early 1990's the number of smokers stayed stable, even though people knew it was bad for them. It was only once they started raises the per-pack tax in the later 1990's that usage started to decline.

Befuddled: .

All I said was that it was a common viewpoint. You're moving the goalposts from never having seen anyone to some characterizing all.

wrytrzcrmp
SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING!

It's Zimbabwe, not Madagascar; foo ;)

Wow 37 posts in and not one person has said its all Britains fault, that has to be a new record.

/Mugabae proving racism isn't white, it's a state of mind.

Mugabe and Ian Smith got along rather well in 1980s, until he criticized his 1-party Zanu-PF system. and in 2007 he finally got the chance to tell everyone "I told you so", right before he died.

ironically, John Vorster did a lot to undermine Ian Smith's rule, but that must have been the realpolitiks of that time. like how Zambia secretly co-operated with SA on the Angolan matter, despite openly not having anything to do with them.

Mugabe seems to be immortal. How old is he ? 86 ? maybe sucking the life out of Zimbabwe has something to do with this.

chu2dogg:

This is exactly what they said in Zimbabwe, right up until the mobs with machetes showed up at the door.

It's funny though, all bickering aside. When bringing this up to South Africans they get pretty intense. But you get a kind of look in their eye that deep down they really know its true. Their country will soon be no more. I mean with Zimbabwe right next door and all the same warning signs going on in their own country. The situation is clearly getting worse before it gets better. They will soon be a nation in exile and overtime culturally infused into their host countries. Sucks to be them.

*Goes and looks in the mirror*

Sorry, I'm not seeing that look in my eyes.

Question: What, exactly, do you base your sweeping statements on?

Left seizes control of South Africa's ANC (new window)

definitely something to look forward to.

2chris2: krelborne: WTF is Zimbabwe's problem?

Their economy was based on farming, and they seized the farmers' land and gave it to people who didn't know how to farm. That turns out to have been a bad thing.

They also neglected that the brits and the frenchies both had an intricate system to divide the land, not based on fairness or BS, but rather on making each "strip" or section of land irrigateable and accessable. When they "gave the land back to the people" they didn't keep the old quarter sections and public land "corridors", they just chopped it up into squares and gave it Mugabe's family members and some others.