If this keeps up, the Navy probably won't be stopping over in Hong Kong that often. That sucks. Those guys know how to have a good time.

All that junk up in that trunk.


/got nothin
/(hot?)linked

Not too far from the Gulf of Tonkin.

So what exactly is the value of these islands?

The U.S. Navy has to practice sometimes. Nothing to see here.

crab66: So what exactly is the value of these islands?

Not much. There's a bunch of chinks in the infrastructure.

what you did there, I see it

China sending ships to the South China Sea?

Wow. I hope they don't over extend themselves.

I'm sure Obama will come up with a quick and decisive response.

Or an offer to help deal with Taiwan in exchange for dropping all support for Japan and SK.

Loucifer: Not too far from the Gulf of Tonkin.

"And I have one thing to say: Gulf of Tonkin, Google it. Okay."

Swampthing in Korea: I'm sure Obama will come up with a quick and decisive response.

Or an offer to help deal with Taiwan in exchange for dropping all support for Japan and SK.

Oh thanks. China and the US must now work together to try and contain all of the stupid in that post.

fredbox: what you did there, I see it

Finally a reference that I get that most other farkers won't. That doesn't happen very often.

I almost want to see a small scale war between the countries claiming the Spratly Islands just for the sheer absurdity of it. It's absolutely ridiculous, these countries literally have tiny forts set up on rocks sticking out of the sea in an attempt to claim the land. There's only something like 6 square miles worth of land in the area, spread out over dozens of islands/rocks. Nobody even knows for sure if there's potential oil/natural resources around there, with the exception of fishing.

They're trying to claim the territorial sovereignty for the entire South China - clearly a violation of international law.

They seem to be of the opinion that if it EVER belonged to them in the past 5000 years, has the word China in it, or the people like Chinese food, then it belongs to them now.

Haha, nice one, subby. Scrotie likey

Where have I heard this before? Oh wait...

Swampthing in Korea: I'm sure Obama will come up with a quick and decisive response.

Why should he? None of his business.

My junk is hot(linked).

Say what you want, but the Japanese treated the Chinese more humanely than the Chinese government does.

shawnshawnery: Say what you want, but the Japanese treated the Chinese more humanely than the Chinese government does.

Ever hear about Unit 731. I don't think the Chinese ever did this.
Link (new window)

shawnshawnery: Say what you want, but the Japanese treated the Chinese more humanely than the Chinese government does.

Ummm...they both did their share of bad things. I would say Mao killed far more people through his policies, but the Japanese were FAR more brutal. I mean bayoneting babies, raping women, using chemical weapons against cities isn't going to win over mass starvation, prison camps and Orwellian terror when it comes to being "humane"

The Chinese are calling President Obama a pussy. That's it, plain and simple.

Now they may end up being wrong, and I hope they are, and good ol' Barack protects American interests....but we'll see.

dfenstrate: The Chinese are calling President Obama a pussy. That's it, plain and simple.

Now they may end up being wrong, and I hope they are, and good ol' Barack protects American interests....but we'll see.

Yeah, I hope he starts WW3 over this. We'll show them slopes not to mess with America.

badhatharry: Ever hear about Unit 731. I don't think the Chinese ever did this.
Link (new window)

I'll agree it's disgustingly brutal.

Swampthing in Korea: I'm sure Obama will come up with a quick and decisive response.

No, Obama is weak and inexperienced. He's probably going to end up writing a groveling apology to the Chinese.

A quick guideline:

"Territorial waters" is the 12 mile limit. Inside that line, you can enforce your own laws, and keep ships from entering.

"Exclusive Economic Zone" is the 200 mile limit. Inside that area, your country has the right to do things like oil drilling and fishing. Ships from other countries (including military ships) have the right of passage. Yes, even for things like mapping the sea floor. Yes, even military ships.

There's an additional extension to the EEZ (350 miles, if the continental shelf extends that far) for seabed mining that some countries have signed on to (the US hasn't), but nobody actually observes it yet.

All of the limits above can be modified if other countries' waters overlap yours (like Japan and China in the South China Sea). If two or more countries are closer than 400 miles, the border is generally half of the distance (but can be negotiated between the two countries). That's why everyone in that region claims the Spratly Islands as "territory," even though most of them have no historical claim to them (they're uninhabited rocks that barely stick up out of the sea). China's claim, for example, rests on 2000 year old maps that showed the Spratly Islands (although in the last 200 years, they never got around to actually inhabiting them until they put a military base there in recent times - well after other countries claimed them).

What China is trying to do is extend their territorial waters to the 200 mile EEZ limit. They want to own the entire area, because they think there might be some oil there they can grab. Just like everyone else.

I remember getting the junk ship in Uncharted Waters: New Horizons. Good times, life was so simple then.

crab66: So what exactly is the value of these islands?

The islands have no real value. It's the oil and gas reserves that everyone wants. There are also the fishing rights. Throw into the mix that it's a major shipping lane and you can see why every country in the area wants the Spratlys.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pg.html

cirby: A quick guideline:

"Territorial waters" is the 12 mile limit. Inside that line, you can enforce your own laws, and keep ships from entering.

"Exclusive Economic Zone" is the 200 mile limit. Inside that area, your country has the right to do things like oil drilling and fishing. Ships from other countries (including military ships) have the right of passage. Yes, even for things like mapping the sea floor. Yes, even military ships.

There's an additional extension to the EEZ (350 miles, if the continental shelf extends that far) for seabed mining that some countries have signed on to (the US hasn't), but nobody actually observes it yet.

All of the limits above can be modified if other countries' waters overlap yours (like Japan and China in the South China Sea). If two or more countries are closer than 400 miles, the border is generally half of the distance (but can be negotiated between the two countries). That's why everyone in that region claims the Spratly Islands as "territory," even though most of them have no historical claim to them (they're uninhabited rocks that barely stick up out of the sea). China's claim, for example, rests on 2000 year old maps that showed the Spratly Islands (although in the last 200 years, they never got around to actually inhabiting them until they put a military base there in recent times - well after other countries claimed them).

What China is trying to do is extend their territorial waters to the 200 mile EEZ limit. They want to own the entire area, because they think there might be some oil there they can grab. Just like everyone else.


China also gets rather testy when they think of red-haired barbarians having any sort of influence in their self-perceived sphere of influence or old tributary states. It's like the Greater Nippon theory on crack.

The last President to stand up to the Chicom Conspiracy was Clinton - who took all of 5 minutes to send carrier battle groups at them after they fired test missiles over Taiwan. They put their tiny little penises back in their pants and went home.

wanted for questioning...

PC LOAD LETTER: Yeah, I hope he starts WW3 over this. We'll show them slopes not to mess with America.

Only a simpleton would think that's the only way one would advocate showing strength.

dfenstrate: PC LOAD LETTER: Yeah, I hope he starts WW3 over this. We'll show them slopes not to mess with America.

Only a simpleton would think that's the only way one would advocate showing strength.

Only a simpleton would think that showing strength is the only tool to use.

The Chicom Hive Mind will have to be dealt with at some point.

Personally, I'm hoping for some sort of disease to do it, though they're doing nicely at poisoning themselves. There is nothing good about the stated intentions of the Chicom. They intend to remake the world in the image of China. People yammer about free trade and how it will bring them into the fold - they openly speak of their trade relation with us as "economic war". They manipulate their currency. They forcibly abort babies and kill dissenters. They invade peaceful neighbors and destroy their cultures.

Islam is nothing compared to the threat of the Yellow Peril.

Bird Flu ftw.

Fizpez: They're trying to claim the territorial sovereignty for the entire South China - clearly a violation of international law.

They seem to be of the opinion that if it EVER belonged to them in the past 5000 years, has the word China in it, or the people like Chinese food, then it belongs to them now.


Question: An incident occurs 75 miles from China's Coast and 8,000 miles from the US Coast, between the US Navy, and the Chinese Navy. Is this incident because of (a) China thinks that they own the world, or (b) because the US thinks that they own the world ?

Bonus Question: If the incident occured 75 miles from the coast of the United States, with Chinese surveilance vessels being accosted by the US Coast Guard, would your answer be different ?

General Zang: Fizpez: They're trying to claim the territorial sovereignty for the entire South China - clearly a violation of international law.

They seem to be of the opinion that if it EVER belonged to them in the past 5000 years, has the word China in it, or the people like Chinese food, then it belongs to them now.


Question: An incident occurs 75 miles from China's Coast and 8,000 miles from the US Coast, between the US Navy, and the Chinese Navy. Is this incident because of (a) China thinks that they own the world, or (b) because the US thinks that they own the world ?

C'mon the answer on FARK is always (c). you're not even trying.

Bonus Question: If the incident occured 75 miles from the coast of the United States, with Chinese surveilance vessels being accosted by the US Coast Guard, would your answer be different ?

Why is the bonus question about the Coasties ? The "incident" is an important detail. Back during the cold war with the Soviets these things did happen near the US. We didn't ram their ships and planes. Our version of "accosting" consisted of watching them and taking notes. We survieled their survialence. It was kind of silly really.

One Bad Apple: General Zang: Fizpez: They're trying to claim the territorial sovereignty for the entire South China - clearly a violation of international law.

They seem to be of the opinion that if it EVER belonged to them in the past 5000 years, has the word China in it, or the people like Chinese food, then it belongs to them now.


Question: An incident occurs 75 miles from China's Coast and 8,000 miles from the US Coast, between the US Navy, and the Chinese Navy. Is this incident because of (a) China thinks that they own the world, or (b) because the US thinks that they own the world ?

C'mon the answer on FARK is always (c). you're not even trying.

Bonus Question: If the incident occured 75 miles from the coast of the United States, with Chinese surveilance vessels being accosted by the US Coast Guard, would your answer be different ?

Why is the bonus question about the Coasties ? The "incident" is an important detail. Back during the cold war with the Soviets these things did happen near the US. We didn't ram their ships and planes. Our version of "accosting" consisted of watching them and taking notes. We survieled their survialence. It was kind of silly really.



So... your point is that the US Navy is conducting itself off of the Chinese Coast in the present day, in the same fashion that the Soviets used to conduct themselves off of the US Coast during the Cold War?

And... somehow, this is the fault of the Chinese?

;)

General Zang:


So... your point is that the US Navy is conducting itself off of the Chinese Coast in the present day, in the same fashion that the Soviets used to conduct themselves off of the US Coast during the Cold War?

And... somehow, this is the fault of the Chinese?

;)

No, the US is conducting itself just like it did against the Soviets. It is the Chinese that are conducting themselves like the Soviets. THAT is the fault of the Chinese.

So far they are being stereotypicaly passive aggressive and only ram UNARMED aircraft and ships. The reason the Chinese do not conduct similar operations in US territorial waters is that they lack the capability of deploying a blue water navy.

General Zang: Question: An incident occurs 75 miles from China's Coast and 8,000 miles from the US Coast, between the US Navy, and the Chinese Navy. Is this incident because of (a) China thinks that they own the world, or (b) because the US thinks that they own the world ?

Question: China is harassing and attacking ships in international waters. Is this incident the fault of (a) China, for breaking international law, or (b) The ship being attacked, because it was asking for it?

Bonus question: Who is really at fault for rapes, the rapists or the victims, for being in the wrong place at the wrong time?

One Bad Apple: General Zang:


So... your point is that the US Navy is conducting itself off of the Chinese Coast in the present day, in the same fashion that the Soviets used to conduct themselves off of the US Coast during the Cold War?

And... somehow, this is the fault of the Chinese?

;)

No, the US is conducting itself just like it did against the Soviets. It is the Chinese that are conducting themselves like the Soviets. THAT is the fault of the Chinese.

So far they are being stereotypicaly passive aggressive and only ram UNARMED aircraft and ships. The reason the Chinese do not conduct similar operations in US territorial waters is that they lack the capability of deploying a blue water navy.


If only they could get a hold of an entire blue water navy, they could copy it, hivemind style.

INTERTRON:
Bonus question: Who is really at fault for rapes, the rapists or the victims, for being in the wrong place at the wrong time?


Curious.

What part of steel-hulled naval vessels having near-collisions at sea, made you think of non-consensual violent sexual acts between human beings on land?

One Bad Apple:

So far they are being stereotypicaly passive aggressive and only ram UNARMED aircraft and ships. The reason the Chinese do not conduct similar operations in US territorial waters is that they lack the capability of deploying a blue water navy.


Passive-Aggressive?

That would be like sending unarmed, undefended aircraft and ships just off the coast of another nation, to conduct survielance and intelligence missions, and then getting huffy when the "innocent" and "unarmed" vessels get messed with by the locals?

Why not send a battleship, a cruiser, or even an aircraft carrier in to conduct the espionage/surveilance missions?

Perhaps because sending obvious warships off someone else's coast would ruin the whole "gosh, we was just peacefully sailing along and they tried to ram us for no reason at all, because they are bad people and mean and stuff" narative being manufactured?

How about we quit pissing away my tax dollars on harrasing people on the far side of the planet, and put the money to good use right here inside our own borders?

How many trained, educated, and highly skilled people are onboard that spy ship, whose skills could be put to way better use back here inside the US?

Apik0r0s: The Chicom Hive Mind will have to be dealt with at some point.

Personally, I'm hoping for some sort of disease to do it, though they're doing nicely at poisoning themselves. There is nothing good about the stated intentions of the Chicom. They intend to remake the world in the image of China. People yammer about free trade and how it will bring them into the fold - they openly speak of their trade relation with us as "economic war". They manipulate their currency. They forcibly abort babies and kill dissenters. They invade peaceful neighbors and destroy their cultures.

Islam is nothing compared to the threat of the Yellow Peril.

Bird Flu ftw.

How did Israel cause this.

globalwarmingpraiser: Apik0r0s: The Chicom Hive Mind will have to be dealt with at some point.

Personally, I'm hoping for some sort of disease to do it, though they're doing nicely at poisoning themselves. There is nothing good about the stated intentions of the Chicom. They intend to remake the world in the image of China. People yammer about free trade and how it will bring them into the fold - they openly speak of their trade relation with us as "economic war". They manipulate their currency. They forcibly abort babies and kill dissenters. They invade peaceful neighbors and destroy their cultures.

Islam is nothing compared to the threat of the Yellow Peril.

Bird Flu ftw.

How did Israel cause this.


That's a stupid question. Israel does double deal us and sell secret US technology to the Chicom however. The friend of my enemy...

agoratrader: Uncharted Waters: New Horizons

I did so love that game:)

did you ever get the frigate?

If the incident occured 75 miles from the coast of the United States, with Chinese surveilance vessels being accosted by the US Coast Guard, would your answer be different ?

Yes. The USCG would respect International Maritime Law and allow the Chinese vessel free passage as required. It would shadow the Chinese vessel, but not interfere in said vessels right to free navigation of the seas. The USCG would remain on station until a suitable unit of the USN arrived to maintain surveillance.
You see, that's the difference between our idea of free navigation and theirs. We actually expect to be able to navigate freely.

/ Of course, that's assuming that the USCG would be operating 75 miles offshore.

// Now get back behind your Great Firewall before the Cultural police come to take you away.

shanteyman:

// Now get back behind your Great Firewall before the Cultural police come to take you away.


Idiot. There are no cultural police in California.

I'm one of those American taxpayers you might have heard about, who doesn't like the idea of ignorant yahoos bleeding away American wealth and treasure to play stupid farking gotcha games with multi-million-dollar vesssels on the far side of the Earth... ..while Americans drown or starve here at home, because nobody gives a fark about helping their own people inside their own borders, when there are foreigners to go fark with 10,000 miles away.

Oh, and FYI... running spy vessels around 75 miles from the shore of China is the not-so-grown-up equivalent of teasing your siblings by standing a millionth of an inch away and saying "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!" when you're five farking years old.

Well, you ain't five years old anymore, and normal decent Americans shouldn't have to finance your stupid-ass childish games with our hard-earned money.

So grow the fark up and quit farking around overseas off other people's coastlines.

So grow the fark up and quit farking around overseas off other people's coastlines.

Struck a nerve, did I ? I know you're in Cali, arsehole. You're one of those holier than thou types who doesn't understand what real nations do to protect their rights at sea. I'm one of "those taxpaying Americans" who expects my trading partners to respect my rights regarding free navigation in International waters, and when they don't I expect a carefully reasoned response from my country's leaders. I'm confident that response is being formulated as I write.
Running spy vessels 13 or 1300 miles of the coast of any nation is our right under International Maritime Law; the Chinese have the same right.They just don't have the means.
Before you go spouting off about what a nation can or cannot do in International waters you'd better make sure you know what the fark you're talking about.

shanteyman:

Before you go spouting off about what a nation can or cannot do in International waters you'd better make sure you know what the fark you're talking about.


This has nothing to do with what CAN be done in international waters, and everything to do with what SHOULD be done in international waters.

Standing two millionths of an inch from your sister when you were five years old and saying "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!" was a dick move when you were five, but understandable, because no one expects five-year-olds to conduct themselves with dignity or restraint.

Decent citizens, however, do expect their nation to act with dignity and restraint, and not to behave on the international stage like a dick.... *especially* when acting like a dick as a nation uses up resources that *could* have been used to do something worthwhile.

Like I said, grow up.

General Zang: Like I said, grow up.

Is that directed towards the government which is violating international maritime regulations or the one exercising what is clearly within its' rights as a sea going nation? 'Cause, interestingly enough, I don't believe "being an arse" would validate actions which go against the established law.