Replacing one pointless ritual for another is not progress.

This is so stupid it makes my ears bleed.

EviLincoln: Replacing one pointless ritual for another is not progress.

As an Atheist I wholeheartedly agree. This is just saying that baptisms mean something. I was baptised Catholic, and I don't farking care.

I agree that indoctrinating children with religion when they are gullible and defenseless is essentially raping their minds and tantamount to child abuse though.

Didn't the Soviets do a rather good job of removing Trotsky from the photos, at least for the time?

Kliffoth: I agree that indoctrinating children with religion when they are gullible and defenseless is essentially raping their minds and tantamount to child abuse though.

I know, right? We should totally stop teaching them manners, too.

dj_bigbird: This is so stupid it makes my ears bleed.

I think anyone who takes a behaviour or a belief and then makes that a primary personal identifier is prone to great acts of stupidness.

Atheists, cyclists, conservatives, liberals, TFers, Red Wings fans.....

Mr Hunt was baptised and that's a matter of public record.

I was going to say this is completely idiotic until I read that. Why is this a public record? OK, it's still idiotic, but I don't know what good ever came out of keeping lists like that.

noYOUare: I know, right? We should totally stop teaching them manners, too.

How does that even equate?

Kliffoth: noYOUare: I know, right? We should totally stop teaching them manners, too.

How does that even equate?

You know, forcing our views on gullible, defenseless children. They should be allowed to choose how they behave.

noYOUare: You know, forcing our views on gullible, defenseless children. They should be allowed to choose how they behave.

How does religion teach children how to 'behave'?

Kliffoth: EviLincoln: I agree that indoctrinating children with religion when they are gullible and defenseless is essentially raping their minds and tantamount to child abuse though.

So are you going to be the one who calls social services to take my child away from me and my wife because I decide to take my kid to synagogue and teach him Jewish tradition?

Hearing stuff like this on Fark really makes me scared for the next generation.

/wife just became pregnant

Kliffoth: noYOUare: You know, forcing our views on gullible, defenseless children. They should be allowed to choose how they behave.

How does religion teach children how to 'behave'?

It doesn't. But teaching manners is really not the job of parents, any more than teaching religion is. These kids need to be left to their own devices; we should be attempting to give them any guidance whatsoever in their gullible, defenseless state.

Outtaphase: OK, it's still idiotic, but I don't know what good ever came out of keeping lists like that.

Never did any geneology, huh?

Kliffoth: This is just saying that baptisms mean something.

Exactly. If you truly believe there is no god, than one man's insane ramblings while dumping water on your head while your parents make promises for you to their imaginary friend is not at all meaningful. The idea you need some sort of ritual to cleanse yourself of this spiritual taint, in and of itself grants legitimacy to the inane people's ritual and imaginary friend.

TheAbstractor: So are you going to be the one who calls social services to take my child away from me and my wife because I decide to take my kid to synagogue and teach him Jewish tradition?

No I wouldn't 'take your child away'.

Why don't you wait until your child is able to think for him/herself? If your religion and traditions are so valuable cetainly your child would come to that conclusion on his/her own without you indoctrinating him/her before they are able to think.

Evangelical atheists are just as funny as evangelical Christians. Ah, ignorance and hyperbole: the cornerstones of any fundamentalist argument.

I predict that when this goes live, there will be reasoned and rational discussion.

Lord knows it's already off to a good start on TF.

noYOUare: These kids need to be left to their own devices; we should be attempting to give them any guidance whatsoever in their gullible, defenseless state.

Teaching your child how to function in society is not the same as filling their head with lies and potentially robbing them of the ability to think critically about the world around them.

Kliffoth: TheAbstractor: So are you going to be the one who calls social services to take my child away from me and my wife because I decide to take my kid to synagogue and teach him Jewish tradition?

No I wouldn't 'take your child away'.

Why don't you wait until your child is able to think for him/herself? If your religion and traditions are so valuable cetainly your child would come to that conclusion on his/her own without you indoctrinating him/her before they are able to think.

And hold off on the potty training, lest you infringe on the child's ability to decide later whether or not s/he wants to learn. It could very well want to spend its life in diapers, you know.

noYOUare: Evangelical atheists are just as funny as evangelical Christians. Ah, ignorance and hyperbole: the cornerstones of any fundamentalist argument.

If you're referring to me.. How is me having an opinion equate to me being 'Evangelical'. That's right Atheists aren't allowed to have opinions about religion, I forgot.

noYOUare: And hold off on the potty training, lest you infringe on the child's ability to decide later whether or not s/he wants to learn. It could very well want to spend its life in diapers, you know.

Just keep going off on that tangent instead of addressing what I actually said. That's cool, it is a Fark religion thread after all.

Kliffoth: noYOUare: Evangelical atheists are just as funny as evangelical Christians. Ah, ignorance and hyperbole: the cornerstones of any fundamentalist argument.

If you're referring to me.. How is me having an opinion equate to me being 'Evangelical'. That's right Atheists aren't allowed to have opinions about religion, I forgot.

Because you're a farking moron. I'm an atheist. I don't think teaching kids religion is child abuse. It's people like you that make the normal, sane atheists look bad.

Kliffoth: noYOUare: These kids need to be left to their own devices; we should be attempting to give them any guidance whatsoever in their gullible, defenseless state.

Teaching your child how to function in society is not the same as filling their head with lies and potentially robbing them of the ability to think critically about the world around them.

I'm agreeing with you, idiot. We should not be giving them any guidance at all. Enforcing your idea of what "good manners" are is just doing them a disservice. Just like reading fiction to them (as if a caterpillar could eat that much, really... or a cat would wear a hat and clean up its own mess) is tantamount to abuse. What if the kid grew up disappointed that there were not really such things as green eggs and ham? You'd be the liar.

I expect rational and mature debate from this thread. Anything else and I'll be disappointed.

Kliffoth: How is me having an opinion equate to me being 'Evangelical'

Because you're as ridiculously adamant as any fundie Christian. I find it humorous and delightful.

My brother was once looking into having his baptism "reversed" in order to stop annoying catholics from trying to "bring him back to god".

I told him that walking into a Sunday mass and publicly pissing into the baptismal should do the trick....

So if baptism makes you born again, does a debaptism make you still unborn?

/This sort of nonsense deserves nothing but ridicule. If you don't believe in God, baptism has no more significance than crossing your fingers for luck.

noYOUare: Kliffoth: TheAbstractor: So are you going to be the one who calls social services to take my child away from me and my wife because I decide to take my kid to synagogue and teach him Jewish tradition?

No I wouldn't 'take your child away'.

Why don't you wait until your child is able to think for him/herself? If your religion and traditions are so valuable cetainly your child would come to that conclusion on his/her own without you indoctrinating him/her before they are able to think.

And hold off on the potty training, lest you infringe on the child's ability to decide later whether or not s/he wants to learn. It could very well want to spend its life in diapers, you know.

C'mon, man, stop feeding the troll. If the guy refuses to see anything in religious teachings except evil, you aren't going to change his mind.

TheAbstractor: /wife just became pregnant

Who's the father? And since she "just became" pregnant, are you sure you understand how the whole process works?

noYOUare: I'm agreeing with you, idiot. We should not be giving them any guidance at all. Enforcing your idea of what "good manners" are is just doing them a disservice. Just like reading fiction to them (as if a caterpillar could eat that much, really... or a cat would wear a hat and clean up its own mess) is tantamount to abuse. What if the kid grew up disappointed that there were not really such things as green eggs and ham? You'd be the liar.

I'm now dismissing you as a troll.

Kasira: Because you're a farking moron. I'm an atheist. I don't think teaching kids religion is child abuse. It's people like you that make the normal, sane atheists look bad.

So it's ok to send them to a place where they teach children that they're sinners and need the church or else they are going to a place where they will be tortured for eternity. A place where they are taught to be ashamed of their own bodies. A place where they are filled with guilt for being...gasp...a human being. All at a time of their devolpment where they take everything from adults at face value.

I have no problem with children learning about religion. I do have a problem with drilling nonsense into their heads to the point when they feel guilty when (and if) they realise that they've been lied to.

gopher321: C'mon, man, stop feeding the troll. If the guy refuses to see anything in religious teachings except evil, you aren't going to change his mind.

I didn't say religion taught nothing but evil did I? I do believe the bad far outweighs the good though.

See this is why Atheists can't take the Religious seriously. We say one thing, you take it completely the wrong way and then attack what we didn't mean. I guess when you don't have facts or anything then taking offense is all you have. It's ok, I understand.

Kliffoth: Kasira: Because you're a farking moron. I'm an atheist. I don't think teaching kids religion is child abuse. It's people like you that make the normal, sane atheists look bad.

So it's ok to send them to a place where they teach children that they're sinners and need the church or else they are going to a place where they will be tortured for eternity. A place where they are taught to be ashamed of their own bodies. A place where they are filled with guilt for being...gasp...a human being. All at a time of their devolpment where they take everything from adults at face value.

I have no problem with children learning about religion. I do have a problem with drilling nonsense into their heads to the point when they feel guilty when (and if) they realise that they've been lied to.

Not my kids, not my decision. People teach their children a lot of things I don't agree with. I don't see why I should get up in arms about the religious thing, as opposed to, say, letting them think that eating at McDonald's twice a week is normal.

Kasira: Not my kids, not my decision. People teach their children a lot of things I don't agree with. I don't see why I should get up in arms about the religious thing, as opposed to, say, letting them think that eating at McDonald's twice a week is normal.

Um when did I say it was my decision? The Constitution of this country ensures that people can worship (or not) as they wish. No, it isn't my decision, but I still think it's a horrible thing to do as a child, I was one of those children. For a couple years after realising, completely, that Religion is a lie passed from generation to generation I still had twinges of guilt. It's sickening.

So to clarify.

Yes I think religious indoctrination at an age where children will take it at face value is wrong. I believe it is child abuse, and I will say as much.

No it is not my call make. If I felt it was then I'm in the wrong country no? The Constitution ensures that people can worship the way they wish. The Constitution also ensures that I have the right to speak out against it.

Kasira: Not my kids, not my decision. People teach their children a lot of things I don't agree with. I don't see why I should get up in arms about the religious thing, as opposed to, say, letting them think that eating at McDonald's twice a week is normal.

Maybe because you have to live in society with the people that religion creates.

If you don't believe in a god then what possible hold would a baptism have over you?

I get pissed off as hell when I think about all the bullshiat I was taught as a good little baptist when I was little but I can't undo it. I just live my life better than those bigots taught me.

The Constitution also ensures that I have the right to speak out against it.

Before this gets taken the wrong way. I have the right to speak out against defenseless children being indoctrinated. I believe in an adult's freedom to worship.

I'm waiting for this to devolve into "Oh yeah? Well, you're a poo-poo head! So there!"

Switchblades: I predict that when this goes live, there will be reasoned and rational discussion.

Lord knows it's already off to a good start on TF.

Kliffoth: EviLincoln: Replacing one pointless ritual for another is not progress.

As an Atheist I wholeheartedly agree. This is just saying that baptisms mean something. I was baptised Catholic, and I don't farking care.

I agree that indoctrinating children with religion when they are gullible and defenseless is essentially raping their minds and tantamount to child abuse thoughHurrrrrrrrrr.

FTFY

Atheism is a Religion.

And another pack of evangelical dipwads wraps some aging tradition around their purposes and calls it "progress".

I'm all stocked up on "Don't Watch Towers."

muck4doo: I enjoying raping farm animals.

Be back after work.

Switchblades: Lord

I'm kind of curious how a liter can make this discussion any more retarded. But then again I've always been curious how having a monthly disposable income of $5 makes arguments more valid.

There is a bird and hair joke in there somewhere, but I'm just a liter and can't think of it.

I think that when I have kids I'm going to teach them that Jesus Christ Anakin Skywalker was sent by Almighty God the Midichlorians in order to die for our sins bring balance to the Force.

Switchblades: I predict that when this goes live, there will be reasoned and rational discussion.

Lord knows it's already off to a good start on TF.

Meant to quote that. It appears the $5 give you a better grasp on the highlighting/quoting function.

If you feel like you need a ceremony like that you are just as much of a religious fundie as the thiests you hate.

I'm going to start offering debaptisms, too. I have a hair dryer around here somewhere.

Religion is not to blame for the world's ills. If it were, Stalin and Mao would have ruled over paradise. People in power will use (and yes, abuse) whatever tool is handy to remain in power, whether that tool is money, religion, national security, etc.

Kliffoth: muck4doo: I enjoying raping farm animals.

Be back after work.

Have fun with your burgers.

TheAbstractor: Hearing stuff like this on Fark really makes me scared for the next generation.

/wife just became pregnant

Don't come to Fark for parenting advice, for the most part.

It's like coming here to have a calm debate about politics or religion.