Lawmakers have called senior Obama aides to question the decision, environmental groups have filed a Freedom of Information Act request to probe the decision-making process, and experts inside and outside the administration predict that the issue will end up in court.

It's this kind of case that makes me believe administrative ESA listings should be abolished and acts of Congress required for each species.

(Actually this is only one of the kinds of cases. Another is the illegal failure to review status of species.)

ZAZ: It's this kind of case that makes me believe administrative ESA listings should be abolished and acts of Congress required for each species.

You think you there is excessive bureaucracy and slow progress now? Put it solely in the hands of Congress.

Then leave species protection to Congress, and then wait for a money-minded-everything-else-be-damned Republican majority... We'll not only remove those annoying hindrances to money making, well totally f-up the environment more so than we ever imagined.

The wolves in Congress need to be culled, not the wolves of nature.
The wolves of nature add to the environment.
/congress not so much

great headline


That said, if we are about to have a full on wolf epidemic in the Rockies, we had better get in our planes and start culling.


Too many wolves is bad.






/hot...like his eyes

Phil Herup: /hot...like his eyes

He looks like he's just about to whar your garbl.

Phil Herup: Too many wolves is bad.

Please, do explain. And please include citations.

40yoVirgin: Phil Herup: Too many wolves is bad.

Please, do explain. And please include citations.

Too many wolves=not enough food=you become food.

badhatharry: Too many wolves=not enough food=you become food.

you forgot citations!

"And Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, a former senator from New York, clarified the administration's commitment to human rights this week after stating earlier that such concerns "can't interfere" with issues on which the United States needs Chinese cooperation"

Running neck-and-neck for asshat of the year with this statement.

40yoVirgin: Phil Herup: Too many wolves is bad. Please, do explain. And please include citations.


What do wolves eat?


Citation not necessary, it is obvious.


Too many wolves, not enough deer or elk, bad for the prey and eventually the predator.

40yoVirgin: you forgot citations!


Do your own research.

You think you there is excessive bureaucracy and slow progress now? Put it solely in the hands of Congress.

Slow is not bad. What is bad is trying to shove a square political peg into a round objective hole. The tradeoff of wolves vs. ranchers is a value judgment that ought to be made through the open political process, not by a secret political process follow by lawsuits followed by hearings.

The ESA as a whole is a failure. Worse than a failure. Australia has a similar problem with its equivalent law. So you have a list of species names, or subspecies/state pairs. That's just words on paper. It's easy to turn that into obstruction and hard to turn that into anything beneficial, and doing anything constructive with such a large list is impossible anyway. Spread money around and do nothing, or admit failure and concentrate on the feasible goals. We can limit listings to what Congress can get done while not being distracted by shiny objects, or impose a strict quota of listings under 10% of the current level, or keep failing.

Wolves, if they are a success, are a success because they did not receive only the normal attention given to a listed species.

Here in Idaho the decline in elk population is blamed on the wolves.
This fall, wolf hunting tags will be sold for $10.00 each. Our govenor wants to be the first to buy one.

Phil Herup: 40yoVirgin: you forgot citations!


Do your own research.

No shiat. Every thread (Yea, I'm looking at you CORVUS), you have a handful of noobs who can't seem to figure out what a search engine is, nor how to use it.

Phil Herup: Too many wolves, not enough deer or elk, bad for the prey and eventually the predator.

Whatever did the deer, elk, and wolves do before we decided they were bad?

Thank god we showed up on the scene to correct mother nature's horrible resource management!

Do your own research.

Too afraid to tell us where you've gotten your "facts",eh?

Half: This fall, wolf hunting tags will be sold for $10.00 each.


Predator hunting is the hardest.

40yoVirgin: Too afraid to tell us where you've gotten your "facts",eh?


30 years of hunting/fishing experience. I probably care more about the environment than you do.

Hey wait a second, all you pro hunter types have been going on and on about how there are too many deer in this country - they breed like rats - are full of diseases from overpopulation - they eat your garden and jump through your kids' school windows. Hunters are desperately needed to thin out the population.

But along come some wolves and it's OH NOEZ NOT ENOUGH DEER! We must kill the wolves because those thinly populated deer can't support a single pack!

hmmmmmmmmmmm.

500,000 human predators in Wyoming. 1,000 wolf predators. It's obvious which ones need the culling.

3_Butt_Cheeks: you have a handful of noobs who can't seem to figure out what a search engine is, nor how to use it.



No it is not that at all. They just only believe what they read, even if it false. If some retard write something and it gets posted on teh net, and it supports their belief, it is FACT. End of story.

They automatically disclaim anyone who disagree with their ideology. Libruls always demand citations.


Here...read this gem. Link (new window)


They are too stupid to know when they are wrong, and never admit they make mistakes.

Phil Herup: 30 years of hunting/fishing experience. I probably care more about the environment than you do.

I believe... really I do.

However, I tend to trust peer-reviewed scientific research over the word of a "environment loving" hunter/fisherman.

/I'll disagree with you as to who cares about the environment more

Egalitarian: Hey wait a second, all you pro hunter types have been going on and on about how there are too many deer in this country - they breed like rats - are full of diseases from overpopulation

Perhaps you have "herd": The deer, as most animal and human populations across the globe, vary in population density depending on the geographical location.

FTFA:- NORTHERN ROCKIES.

Egalitarian: Hey wait a second, all you pro hunter types have been going on and on about how there are too many deer in this country - they breed like rats - are full of diseases from overpopulation - they eat your garden and jump through your kids' school windows. Hunters are desperately needed to thin out the population.



Most of that is in the densely populated areas of the East. Where people get killed by deer all the time when they jump in front of cars and motorcycles.

You see the wolves have been eradicated here b/c wolves and man are an incompatible species. Out West...things are different, but the proper balance must be maintained.

Phil Herup: Libruls always demand citations.

Because some people accept bullshiat reasoning and whatever the AM radio talking head tells them to believe.

So some of us like to see where this information is coming from. Believe me, or not, but I am quite adept at doing my own citation searching...

Phil Herup

Well let's fess up and say it. Say that you don't want some animal (who doesn't understand property lines or the sovereignty of man) taking your god-given buck. Man should have its foot on the neck of nature at all times and wolves threaten that dominance, don't they? They threaten you and your adherence to authority.

\not anti-hunting, but pro-wolf
\\thinks arguments over the environment have a lot to do with human psychology and nothing to do with rationality, no matter if you're a hippie tree hugger or an environment-raping oil executive

40yoVirgin: However, I tend to trust peer-reviewed scientific research


Then go do it. Please.

Even in the face of obvious reality, you are too smug to admit that don't know what you are talking about.

40yoVirgin: whatever the AM radio talking head tells them to believe.


Full Moonbat

I live in Colorado and there are buttloads of mule deer around here. Also seen pronghorn antelope and bighorn sheep, and reputedly there are elk up in them thar hills. Once a moose came wandering down from the mountains. There isn't a lack of game in the Pike's Peak area, that's for sure.

Phil Herup: face of obvious reality

Again... you words ring falsely. As you haven't backed them up.

Phil Herup: 40yoVirgin: whatever the AM radio talking head tells them to believe.


Full Moonbat

Yea, that kinda gave him away. They just can't resist.

Phil Herup
The use of the term moonbat implies that the user is a knee-jerk right-wing dittohead.

If there are enough wolves to sustain the breeding population, it's a success for species protection/reintroduction and take them off the list. If their numbers fall too low, put them back on the list.

Shoot bears instead...evil, garbage-scavenging EVIL bears!...and delicious, ivory-bearing, over-populated elephants.

TripSixes: 500,000 human predators in Wyoming. 1,000 wolf predators. It's obvious which ones need the culling.

And elsewhere on the planet...

3_Butt_Cheeks: They just can't resist.


They do not even know they are stupid.

Phil Herup: 3_Butt_Cheeks: They just can't resist.


They do not even know they are stupid.

Actually, I think they do. This is one of the only forums where they can blabber their asinine thoughts without fear of face to face ridicule or a good old fashioned beat down, stupid be damned!

The pale, pasty, cheeto stained cultists LOVE their outrage and ignorance.

Egalitarian: I live in Colorado


Then I am all for growth of the wolf population there.


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3_Butt_Cheeks: Phil Herup: 3_Butt_Cheeks: They just can't resist.


They do not even know they are stupid.

Actually, I think they do. This is one of the only forums where they can blabber their asinine thoughts without fear of face to face ridicule or a good old fashioned beat down, stupid be damned!

The pale, pasty, cheeto stained cultists LOVE their outrage and ignorance.

wow, people will be so impressed that you think you can beat up every liberal on the internet, and that you're smarter than every single one, too! you apparently have a very warped view of me and many others.

there are dozens of dumb trolls on this site who literally parrot talk radio drivel, word for word, point for point, regardless of how demonstrably false it is. you may or may not be one. why is 40yoVirgin 'stupid' for pointing that out?

Egalitarian: I live in Colorado and there are buttloads of mule deer around here. Also seen pronghorn antelope and bighorn sheep, and reputedly there are elk up in them thar hills. Once a moose came wandering down from the mountains. There isn't a lack of game in the Pike's Peak area, that's for sure.

When I was last in the area of Pikes Peak, (fly fishing in the middle of winter), we snowmobiled for over an hour and a half to get to our destination, I saw a herd of over 200 plus elk way up.
/truly beautiful
//cutthroat trout fishing was on a world class level (all catch and release)
///god I wish I could live there

From the article it sounds like appointing Salazar is actually paying off in terms of positive press in the Western states.

3_Butt_Cheeks: The pale, pasty, cheeto stained cultists LOVE their outrage and ignorance.

I definitely get my share of outrageous ignorance from you betimes. Though I think you've cooled off as of late, possibly out of shame.

all_arm: there are dozens of dumb trolls on this site who literally parrot talk radio drivel, word for word, point for point, regardless of how demonstrably false it is. you may or may not be one. why is 40yoVirgin 'stupid' for pointing that out?

Simple. He tries to make a point (albiet poorly), and his rebuttal of a different viewpoint? AM RADIO!!!!

No hard to see what he was implying, unless someone finds that "arguement" valid in this case. He really went to the well for this silly thread though.

Phil Herup
Egalitarian: I live in Colorado


Then I am all for growth of the wolf population there.

How delightful, that's the same image I had of you, except lying face-forward on the ground with your snow-shoes crossed, and an impish wolf taking a chunk out of your ass.

But seriously, we have mountain lions around here. I would rather live in wolf country - the risk ratio for a small woman seems a lot higher for mountain lions who like to eat petite female joggers. North American wolves are much less prone to people-eating.

Egalitarian: How delightful, that's the same image I had of you, except lying face-forward on the ground with your snow-shoes crossed, and an impish wolf taking a chunk out of your ass.



You know how I know you are gay? ;D


Seriously, mountain lions are bad ass too. I love them all. But lets not get all outraged if they take wolves off the protected lists.

There is too much regulatory BS already.

40yoVirgin: Phil Herup: Too many wolves, not enough deer or elk, bad for the prey and eventually the predator.

Whatever did the deer, elk, and wolves do before we decided they were bad?

Thank god we showed up on the scene to correct mother nature's horrible resource management!

Do your own research.

Too afraid to tell us where you've gotten your "facts",eh?

You're an imbalance to Mother Nature's resource management, are you going to go fix yourself? If our mere presence, as you suggest, caused issues, then please lead by example and fix the situation pertaining to you causing such issues.

good, fark that ass.

Easier to shoot them with a high powered rifle from a long distance when they don't move so fast.

/hurls fuel on bonfire

We need to protect the wolves. Who's gonna clean up after the Zombie Apocalypse? You think buzzards can do the job?

/they'll need help

DeathByGeekSquad Quote 2009-03-14 02:37:03 PM
40yoVirgin: Phil Herup: Too many wolves, not enough deer or elk, bad for the prey and eventually the predator.

Whatever did the deer, elk, and wolves do before we decided they were bad?

Thank god we showed up on the scene to correct mother nature's horrible resource management!

Do your own research.

Too afraid to tell us where you've gotten your "facts",eh?

You're an imbalance to Mother Nature's resource management, are you going to go fix yourself? If our mere presence, as you suggest, caused issues, then please lead by example and fix the situation pertaining to you causing such issues.


Humans are just as much a part of nature as any other animal on the planet? Where did the egotistical idea that humans are somehow outside of the circle of life come from? Or the idea that if a species goes extinct because of human activity its reprehensible? That's what happens when a new species comes along that is better suited to survive comes along. Other species go extinct. Go change your tampax and quit crying.