I really do think maiming these guys is a good idea. They have no respect for private property, no respect for the law.

There's plenty of work out there you can still do without thumbs, and if I'm wrong, they can starve.

And no, I'm not talking about the stupid teen who 'tags' something once - these guys are pretty much professionals.

Unsung_Hero: I really do think maiming these guys is a good idea. They have no respect for private property, no respect for the law.

Agreed. It's not like some teen tagging an abandoned building, these jackasses do it just to be dicks.

Pittsburgh's graffiti task force is so good that out of state 'artists' vandals have moved into town to challenge them

Fixed...

Unsung_Hero: I really do think maiming these guys is a good idea. They have no respect for private property, no respect for the law.


I think they should be sentenced to a few thousand hours of community service -- actually painting government buildings or covering up other graffiti would be suitable, I think.

I like graffiti art, although I have no doubt that if I lived in a city or had a building that was tagged, I would feel differently

graffiti isn't art, it's vandalism.
it's not "culture" it's a crime.

I don't deny some of these kids have an artistic skill, they just lack social intelligence.

"Ian Debeer, 21, a native of Buffalo, N.Y"

Didn't realize the diamond industry was doing that badly.

No punishment is too severe for these wastes of flesh.

No, it is not art.
No, it doesn't uplift the spirits of the people
Yes, it's vandalism,
Yes, you just ruined someone else's private property
Yes, you are a douchebag.

lokidecat: graffiti isn't art, it's vandalism.
it's not "culture" it's a crime.

I don't deny some of these kids have an artistic skill, they just lack social intelligence.


would like a word
obscure?

the warriors are about as obscure as this guy

Any Pittsburghers out there remember Mook? He was a guy (or probably group of people) that at one time had tagged seemingly everything downtown. I remember seeing "Mook" at the top of bridges and everything.

Legend has it that once, a police officer caught sight of Mook tagging the underside of a raised street. The police officer parked his car, and climbed down to catch him. When he got there, Mook was gone. However, when he returned to his police car, Mook had tagged it.

Is this where all the nerds all overreact about graffiti and act like internet tough guys? There's bigger problems out there than some tagging. You live in a city, what exactly did you expect?

TheJoe03: Is this where all the nerds all overreact about graffiti and act like internet tough guys? There's bigger problems out there than some tagging. You live in a city, what exactly did you expect?

Isnt this kinda like blaming the rape victim for wearing a short skirt?

Pocket Ninja: WHO FLEW?

Zimmerman, and Tyler knew.

SeafaringTurnip: Any Pittsburghers out there remember Mook? He was a guy (or probably group of people) that at one time had tagged seemingly everything downtown. I remember seeing "Mook" at the top of bridges and everything.

Legend has it that once, a police officer caught sight of Mook tagging the underside of a raised street. The police officer parked his car, and climbed down to catch him. When he got there, Mook was gone. However, when he returned to his police car, Mook had tagged it.

There really was only one Mook. As much as I don't condone graffiti, I do have to give the kid credit for the ballsiness of some of his stunts. For example:

http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/20011005graffiti1005p3.asp

Like I said, it's not really anything I condone. I only know of the kid because my old roommate knew him and had some sort of personal issue with him.

Digitalstrange: TheJoe03: Is this where all the nerds all overreact about graffiti and act like internet tough guys? There's bigger problems out there than some tagging. You live in a city, what exactly did you expect?

Isnt this kinda like blaming the rape victim for wearing a short skirt?

My whole point is people are acting like graffiti is similar to rape. Put this shiat in perspective people.

Turnip, link is here about Mook although the story is a little different

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/1005461/detail.html

TheJoe03: Digitalstrange: TheJoe03: Is this where all the nerds all overreact about graffiti and act like internet tough guys? There's bigger problems out there than some tagging. You live in a city, what exactly did you expect?

Isnt this kinda like blaming the rape victim for wearing a short skirt?

My whole point is people are acting like graffiti is similar to rape. Put this shiat in perspective people.

It's equivalent to the rape of property. When someone violates my private property, I feel...well, violated.

As for the ITG stuff, yeah, it brings out a lot of anger. As for my personal ITG input, I'd love to take these guys, lock 'em up, then cover their entire bodies in about eight layers of Krylon. They can come out when every bit of it has flaked off, or they succumb to the toxins.

Spray paint on a building does not equal rape.
They're completely different. Really.

crazyeddie: No punishment is too severe for these wastes of flesh.

No, it is not art.
No, it doesn't uplift the spirits of the people
Yes, it's vandalism,
Yes, you just ruined someone else's private property
Yes, you are a douchebag.

Wrong on 3 fronts. Some Graffiti is, IN FACT, art.
my spirits are oft-uplifted by a clever tag or culture jam. but i suppose i'm not included in your club am i?
applying the term "douchebag" here amounts to word abuse and a pot-kettle instance.

GOOD LUCK PAT TOLL I

buckler: It's equivalent to the rape of property.

are you kidding me??? more word abuse. i suppose these nazis are gassing your property values as well??? you farkers are incorrigible.

/ flaubert would NOT approve

A few years back, the Three Rivers Arts Festival put up a wall in the Golden Triangle park, giving invitations to graffiti artists to come & do their work for the crowd. Each artist got a 10' section or so to adorn.

Soon, their work started to get graffitied by random punks with less talent, and the Pgh news media wasted no time in doing stories on the problem. Most had the good taste to avoid pointing out the obvious irony in their complaints, at least.

:-)fark'em.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not against graffiti, per se. Some of it is quite beautiful and technically difficult, and I can appreciate that. I once worked with a guy who was into the "art" side of it, and he took a bunch of neighborhood kids out to a construction site to teach them some skills. They spent hours covering the temporary plywood construction walls, and the kids had a blast. The difference is that he'd obtained permission first. I have no trouble with the "art" side. It's the "crime" side that pisses me off.

Taggers are without exception morans with too much time on their hands. Double for the ones that use pre-tagged stickers.

ben jovi cucumberledge: crazyeddie: No punishment is too severe for these wastes of flesh.

No, it is not art.
No, it doesn't uplift the spirits of the people
Yes, it's vandalism,
Yes, you just ruined someone else's private property
Yes, you are a douchebag.

Wrong on 3 fronts. Some Graffiti is, IN FACT, art.
my spirits are oft-uplifted by a clever tag or culture jam. but i suppose i'm not included in your club am i?
applying the term "douchebag" here amounts to word abuse and a pot-kettle instance.

If they don't have permission, it is vandalism regardless of its artistic merit.

5 years in prison for something that can be painted over? 4 felonies for paint? Unreal. If you gave them community service, like another farker said, and had them paint over graffiti for those "anti-graffiti" squads, and had them pay for the damages to the store owner when/if caught, that seems like enough punishment.

Farkers are hilarious! GRAFFITI IS RAPE!!! PROPERTY RAPE!!!

That shiat is art, and there is bad art out there, horrible no talent art that other people love, so I don't get the "it's not art" shiat at all. Haven't we basically proven that anything is art as long as someone has a connection to it?

i openly invite any graffiti artist to come and graffiti the hell out of my car. it needs a new paint job.

/likes graffiti
//lives in nyc
///win-win

Chuck Wagon: If they don't have permission, it is vandalism regardless of its artistic merit.

did i say anything about it not being vandalism??

Interesting documentary about graffiti: Bomb It (new window)

Epiphany: 5 years in prison for something that can be painted over?

10 years for knife wounds that can be stitched shut?

5 years for stolen property that can be returned?

It's not the remedy that defines the crime, it's the act itself. Taggers and vandals have NO RIGHT to put paint on something that doesn't belong to them without permission. Period.

That shiat is art, and there is bad art out there, horrible no talent art that other people love, so I don't get the "it's not art" shiat at all. Haven't we basically proven that anything is art as long as someone has a connection to it?

Let them paint their "art" on their own shiat, then. That's what, you know, artists do.

buckler: Epiphany: 5 years in prison for something that can be painted over?

10 years for knife wounds that can be stitched shut?

5 years for stolen property that can be returned?

It's not the remedy that defines the crime, it's the act itself. Taggers and vandals have NO RIGHT to put paint on something that doesn't belong to them without permission. Period.

That shiat is art, and there is bad art out there, horrible no talent art that other people love, so I don't get the "it's not art" shiat at all. Haven't we basically proven that anything is art as long as someone has a connection to it?

Let them paint their "art" on their own shiat, then. That's what, you know, artists do.

Yes, stabbing someone, and raping people, are the same as graffiti. Also, taking someones shiat away from them is the same as applying paint to their wall! What else, is the exact same as graffiti? Vehicular Manslaughter?

I didn't say that it wasn't a crime, and their shouldn't be punishment, I'm just saying that 4 felonies and 5 years in prison is too much for someone who paints a farking wall.

You live in a city, what exactly did you expect?

I do expect douchebags to infect the cities, but it's fun to stop them. Someone needs to study the lung cancer rate in these hoodlums. I bet it will be sky high as they get older. Many paints contain toxins with no known safe level. The only down side is that because they're unemployable the tax dollars of decent folk will have to pay for their care. Still, their agony will be amusing.

Why does this thread remind me of this?

Epiphany:

I didn't say that it wasn't a crime, and their shouldn't be punishment, I'm just saying that 4 felonies and 5 years in prison is too much for someone who paints a farking wall.



If that's five years of them not farking up my neighborhood, I'm for it.

buckler: Epiphany:

I didn't say that it wasn't a crime, and their shouldn't be punishment, I'm just saying that 4 felonies and 5 years in prison is too much for someone who paints a farking wall.



If that's five years of them not farking up my neighborhood, I'm for it.

Yeah I can tell, I only hope that one day you do something non-violent and illegal and get farked by the federal government for it.

buckler: Epiphany: 5 years in prison for something that can be painted over?

10 years for knife wounds that can be stitched shut?

5 years for stolen property that can be returned?

It's not the remedy that defines the crime, it's the act itself. Taggers and vandals have NO RIGHT to put paint on something that doesn't belong to them without permission. Period.



and you have the right to tell kids to get off your lawn, cause you know this is america, and whats mine is mine dammit! [yawn]. if i wanted my grandpas views on private property, criminal justice, etc id ask him. not come to a fark forum.

//doesnt saturday night bingo begin soon at the moose lodge?

FTFA:
Debeer was awaiting arraignment in Night Court on four felony counts and 69 misdemeanor counts of criminal mischief.

Oh yeah?

radioman_: You live in a city, what exactly did you expect?

I do expect douchebags to infect the cities, but it's fun to stop them. Someone needs to study the lung cancer rate in these hoodlums. I bet it will be sky high as they get older. Many paints contain toxins with no known safe level. The only down side is that because they're unemployable the tax dollars of decent folk will have to pay for their care. Still, their agony will be amusing.

yes and someday you'll die of dehydration caused by excessive vaginal weeping. so we all have reason to celebrate!!

I live in the south hills, and remember the whole Mook thing. I think that tag is still up on the bridge, along with a few new ones. They got him eventually, 2 or 3 years back I want to say. He was from Ohio. Big farking suprise.

cut their hands off. Then see if they are good enough to spray with their feet.

gizmanjr



/obligatory

ben jovi cucumberledge:

and you have the right to tell kids to get off your lawn, cause you know this is america, and whats mine is mine dammit! [yawn]. if i wanted my grandpas views on private property, criminal justice, etc id ask him. not come to a fark forum.



Okay, so what are your views on private property? Do please enlighten me.

tagging isnt art. its an essential part of graf but doing it for fame is lame. some highschool bullshart right there.

I know a person, everywhere they go they tag "Mighty Horse rocks the fat ass"

Mighty Horse rocks the fat ass.

I came to this thread solely for the "Night Court" references. Thanks to Dr Fever I'm leaving satisfied.

Ben Jovi,
What you are missing is the concept that you feel that this vandalism should be forced onto unwilling participants. My parents fence and garage has been vandalized several times, other times people have tossed their flower pots through their window, or uprooted their walkway lights.

The difference in the crimes to the victims? Nothing. Both result in a violation of your home and cost hundreds of dollars to repair. With the fear and despair that these crimes cause to those living in the city, I have nothing but contempt for the vandals and the ignorant who support their actions.

rabidferret: I came to this thread solely for the "Night Court" references. Thanks to Dr Fever I'm leaving satisfied.

glad I could be of serivce :-)

SPIT!

re: my views on property rights, see John Locke for details. he basically makes a case against any european transplants making a property claim here since they STOLE it from the indigenous peoples in the first place. he also says you cant claim land that you dont farm. maybe a little antiquated in our society but i think it still holds some validity, especially the first part.

re: vandalism. i grant you that wizard . what i was responding to were the preposterous claims being bandied about. to wit: that no graffiti is art, that this vandalism is the same thing as rape, and that these vandals should have their hands removed for their crimes.