A piece of paper doesn't stop them from being fecking idiots...

FTFA:

The provisions of this subchapter do not apply to a private educational institution, including a separate degree-granting program, unit, or school operated by the institution, that:

(1) does not accept state funding of any kind to support its educational programs;
(2) does not accept state-administered federal funding to support its educational programs;
(3) was formed as or is affiliated with or controlled by a nonprofit corporation or nonprofit unincorporated organization; and
(4) offers bona fide degree programs that require students to complete substantive course work in order to receive a degree from the institution.

Ehh, doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I don't think the fundies were seeking federal funding anyway. Let them pretend to be an institution of higher learning, the proof is all in the accreditations anyway.

soze: Ehh, doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I don't think the fundies were seeking federal funding anyway. Let them pretend to be an institution of higher learning, the proof is all in the accreditations anyway.

They already pretend to be an institute of higher learning, this would just mean they get to call themselves "Dr. Makes shiatupalot PhD" and con an even greater number of rubes.

ninjakirby: soze: Ehh, doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I don't think the fundies were seeking federal funding anyway. Let them pretend to be an institution of higher learning, the proof is all in the accreditations anyway.

They already pretend to be an institute of higher learning, this would just mean they get to call themselves "Dr. Makes shiatupalot PhD" and con an even greater number of rubes.

Note this wouldn't just apply to intelligent design creationists and folk. It would effectively make Texas a haven for woo. Just set up your 'school' for whatever brand of snake-oil you want to promote and hand out degrees to anyone willing to front you the cash.

Want a degree in applied Homeopathy? Done.
PhD in Neuro-psychic phenomena? No problem
Bachelors in Paranormal Detection with a minor in Astrological Dowsing? Here you go.

ninjakirby: ninjakirby: soze: Ehh, doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I don't think the fundies were seeking federal funding anyway. Let them pretend to be an institution of higher learning, the proof is all in the accreditations anyway.

They already pretend to be an institute of higher learning, this would just mean they get to call themselves "Dr. Makes shiatupalot PhD" and con an even greater number of rubes.

Note this wouldn't just apply to intelligent design creationists and folk. It would effectively make Texas a haven for woo. Just set up your 'school' for whatever brand of snake-oil you want to promote and hand out degrees to anyone willing to front you the cash.

Want a degree in applied Homeopathy? Done.
PhD in Neuro-psychic phenomena? No problem
Bachelors in Paranormal Detection with a minor in Astrological Dowsing? Here you go.

It's going to be almost impossible to hire a qualified Ghostbuster if this becomes law.

soze: Ehh, doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I don't think the fundies were seeking federal funding anyway. Let them pretend to be an institution of higher learning, the proof is all in the accreditations anyway.

As long as they pay their taxes.

/Tax the church

Mr. Coffee Nerves: It's going to be almost impossible to hire a qualified Ghostbuster if this becomes law.

As NCSE's Glenn Branch recounted in Reports of the NCSE, "When the Institute for Creation Research moved its headquarters from Santee, California, to Dallas, Texas, in June 2007, it expected to be able to continue offering a master's degree in science education from its graduate school. ... But the state's scientific and educational leaders voiced their opposition, and at its April 24, 2008, meeting, the Texas Higher Education Coordination Board unanimously voted to deny the ICR's request for a state certificate of authority to offer the degree."

Creationists today -- at least the majority of their spokesmen -- are highly educated, intelligent people. Skilled debaters, they have always done their homework. ~ Niles Eldredge

For I am well aware that scarcely a single point is discussed in this volume on which facts cannot be adduced, often apparently leading to conclusions directly opposite to those at which I have arrived. A fair result can be obtained only by fully stating and balancing the facts and arguments on both sides of each question; and this cannot possibly be here done. ~ Charles Darwin

When I was in Cambridge one of my supervisors often advised us to 'beware the sound of one hand clapping' which is a way of saying if there is an argument on one side, there is bound to be an argument on the other. And what I've found in studying the structure of the argument in the Origin of Species is that for every evidence based argument for one of Darwin's two key propositions there is an evidence based counter argument. ~ Stephen Meyer

You know, I sometimes wonder if a law against quote-mining would put Bevets in jail.

Be still when you have nothing to say; when genuine passion moves you, say what you've got to say, and say it hot. ~ D. H. Lawrence

In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable. ~ Dwight D. Eisenhower

How do you know the progs you miss are worse than those you single out? And what'll you do when the rental's up, and your bottom rack is full of vids of programs you will ne'er look at; the way they act is, oh, sheer delight. Cardboard copyright makes it right. ~ Mark E. Smith

On the whole, I'd rather be in Philadelphia ~ WC Fields

Evolutionalityologyitisismdo is the Nina Hartley of the Atheist penis envy cognitive shuffle synergies horse banana

Bevets: For I am well aware that scarcely a single point is discussed in this volume on which facts cannot be adduced, often apparently leading to conclusions directly opposite to those at which I have arrived. A fair result can be obtained only by fully stating and balancing the facts and arguments on both sides of each question; and this cannot possibly be here done. ~ Charles Darwin

So, Dr Steve, do you care to share your side of the question?

Remember that there is NO law that REQUIRES an employer to recognize diplomas from these institutions during the hiring process.

Someone call L. Ron Hubbard & Jada Smith, quick!

Creationism is the diploma theists wrap around their heads to keep the world out.

TFA: ...whether the bill would apply to the ICR's graduate school...

They have a grad school?

Bevets: For I am well aware that scarcely a single point is discussed in this volume on which facts cannot be adduced, often apparently leading to conclusions directly opposite to those at which I have arrived. A fair result can be obtained only by fully stating and balancing the facts and arguments on both sides of each question; and this cannot possibly be here done. ~ Charles Darwin

ANOTHER OLD, OUT OF CONTEXT, QUOTATION
Here's yet another quotation from Darwin that appears in The Revised Quote Book...

`For I am well aware that scarcely a single point is discussed in this volume on which facts cannot be adduced, often apparently leading to conclusions directly opposite to those at which I have arrived. A fair result can be obtained only by fully stating and balancing the facts and arguments on both sides of each question; and this is here impossible.'
Charles Darwin, 1859, Introduction to Origin of Species, p. 2. Also quoted in `John Lofton's Journal', The Washington Times, 8 February 1984. (p. 3 of Rev. QB)

This quotation has been lifted completely out of context. Darwin is not stating that his theory was no better than its opposite. Quite the contrary. Examine Darwin's full statement below, which includes the sentences that directly preceded the above quotation: "This abstract, which I now publish, must necessarily be imperfect. I cannot here give references and authorities for my several statements...I can here give only the general conclusions at which I have arrived, with a few facts in illustration, but which, I hope, in most cases will suffice. No one can feel more sensible than I do of the necessity of hereafter publishing in detail all the facts, with references on which my conclusions have been grounded; and I hope in a future work to do this. For I am well aware that scarcely a single point is discussed in this volume on which facts cannot be adduced, often apparently leading to conclusions directly opposite to those at which I have arrived. A fair result can be obtained only by fully stating and balancing the facts and arguments on both sides of each question; and this is here impossible."

In context, Darwin was merely admitting that it was "impossible" for him to state his case completely, and balance it out by raising and answering all possible objections, since the Origin was merely an "abstract." For instance, elsewhere in the introduction he stated, "...it will take me many more years to complete it [my work], and as my health is far from strong, I have been urged to publish this abstract." Being merely an "abstract," he expected that people would raise questions, "adducing facts...apparently leading to conclusions directly opposite to those at which I have arrived." Note his use of the word "apparently." But once "both sides of each question" had been "fully stated," Darwin was confident that a "fair result" would vindicate his theory rather than "the opposite." Darwin also stated in his introduction, "I have not been hasty in coming to a decision," a "decision" built on many years work, many more examples, and finely tuned arguments, than he could possibly fit between the covers of his little "abstract."

In fact, Darwin was so certain that a "fair result" would favor his view, that he ended his introduction with these words: "I can entertain no doubt, after the most deliberate study and dispassionate judgment of which I am capable, that the view which most naturalists until recently entertained, and which I formerly entertained -- namely, that each species has been independently created -- is erroneous. I am fully convinced that species are not immutable [changeless]; but that those belonging to what are called the same genera are lineal descendant of some other and generaly extinct species, in the same manner as the acknowledged variations of any one species are the descendants of that species. Furthermore, I am convinced that Natural Selection has been the most important, but not the exclusive means of modification." Why don't the editors of The Revised Quote Book cite that summation of his introduction? Don't they want their readers to know what Darwin said in full context? Perhaps they are ignorant of it themselves.

From this link (new window). But, of course, you already knew this, Bevets, you're just tremendously intellectually dishonest.

Are there any degree factories where I can get a masters in creationism with zero effort? Like, just by applying?

I'd really like one.

Bevets:

You're convincing argument has swayed my opinion. Thanks!

Also, I'm a retard.

Texas, where farked up ideas find fruition.
To think that for not thinking they charge tuition.

This doesn't mean that Texas, or any other state, has to acknowledge the degree, right? Don't people like "Dr." Kent Hovind already do this kind of thing?

Creationism is for retards.

Dust: From this link (new window). But, of course, you already knew this, Bevets, you're just tremendously intellectually dishonest.

He's just lying for Jesus, don't you know. It's not like the Bible, the thing that creationists say is 100% infallible, says anything about lying...

Meh. Let them play house.
Most people will understand that the tea is make believe.
And the rubes who will get taken?
Who cares? Rubes is rubes.

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Don't people like "Dr." Kent Hovind already do this kind of thing?

Yes they do

No worse than the University of Phoenix.

No employer would give a shiat about you MBA from UoP

But of course Texas educational facilities will still accept enormous amounts of federal education funds.

Thats fine. Let them. See if they do anything great with their fake diplomas. You know who didn't need a diploma to win a noble prize????

lajimi: Remember that there is NO law that REQUIRES an employer to recognize diplomas from these institutions during the hiring process.

I got a resume/cover letter once from someone who had a degree from the Maharishi School of Management. Not only was it on the resume, but he kind of bragged about it in the letter.

Frickin weird.

0Icky0: Meh. Let them play house.
Most people will understand that the tea is make believe.
And the rubes who will get taken?
Who cares? Rubes is rubes.

Blurring the line between acceptable science and unacceptable science is never a good thing. Once they get their foot in the door, they'll throw it open and charge in with explosives strapped to their chests. They've been planning it for quite some time.

master's degree in science education

Can you "really" have a degree in science education, when you have no science?

PanicMan: Bevets:

You're convincing argument has swayed my opinion. Thanks!

Also, I'm a retard.

If I may use the above quote..

"Bevets:.. You're... a retard." ~PanicMan

I Said: Are there any degree factories where I can get a masters in creationism with zero effort? Like, just by applying?

I'd really like one.

Me too. I'd even be willing to write inane papers with bad logic and complete the necessary course work to get one. Might even be fun - like editing conservapedia.

But it wouldn't be free -- and I wouldn't have the heart to rip off FAFSA for a gag degree to decorate my living room as a Doctor of Creationism Intelligent Design.

This will fly off the rails quick. Their folly will become obvious when they start churning out Doctors of Scientology.

DarnoKonrad: Me too. I'd even be willing to write inane papers with bad logic and complete the necessary course work to get one. Might even be fun - like editing conservapedia.

But it wouldn't be free -- and I wouldn't have the heart to rip off FAFSA for a gag degree to decorate my living room as a Doctor of Creationism Intelligent Design.

If it requires a few brain dead papers and $500 or less I'll definitely do it (what would they need to charge more then that for, "qualified" teachers?). I just don't want to pay thousands and have to attend a class.

It would be nice to have, especially when talking with creationists so you can say "STFU, I have a masters in this stuff"

And Texas retains it's lead for getting it's own Fark tag.

TFA: "...(4) offers bona fide degree programs that require students to complete substantive course work in order to receive a degree from the institution."

And who determines whether the the program is "bona fide"? Why, the institution itself, of course!

lajimi: Remember that there is NO law that REQUIRES an employer to recognize diplomas from these institutions during the hiring process.

Nice diploma, print it yourself?

What is that "college" that has a commercial showing people making video games that look like they are from 1993?

It's not going to do much for the value of a US degree overseas.

Now that religion is dying off more quickly the religious have to conform and play by the non believers rules.

You see Christian rock and going door to door never really took off now they find themselves debating darwin and trying to compete on a intellectual level.

Oh how they wish this was 1009 AD. Thing would be so much easier for them.

soze: FTFA:

The provisions of this subchapter do not apply to a private educational institution, including a separate degree-granting program, unit, or school operated by the institution, that:

(1) does not accept state funding of any kind to support its educational programs;
(2) does not accept state-administered federal funding to support its educational programs;
(3) was formed as or is affiliated with or controlled by a nonprofit corporation or nonprofit unincorporated organization; and
(4) offers bona fide degree programs that require students to complete substantive course work in order to receive a degree from the institution.

Kewl.

I'm totally opening an Advanced Institute of Fark Studies with a P.O. Box in Texas. All I'll have to do is put up a website and have "substantive course work." Said substantive course work will consist of things like kitten-saving, must enter 3 Photoshop contests per semester, midterms will be creating a successful Politics tab troll alt, and so on and so forth.

I'll charge like, $20 a diploma, $40 a doctorate. And they'll be valid!

So we're a couple of Bible Thumpers in SACS from having complete havoc? That's nice to know. I wonder what happens when continental Europe decides to discredit U.S. higher education in general.

Hang On Voltaire: What is that "college" that has a commercial showing people making video games that look like they are from 1993?

I think it's Collins College, and those commercials are awesome. They should switch to offering courses in unintentionally retro commercial directing.

Erik_Emune: It's not going to do much for the value of a US degree overseas.

This. Someone will have to start keeping tabs on who is state-accredited and who isn't, essentially leading to another tier of accreditation.

I wonder how Texas A&M feels about this...

ninjakirby: ninjakirby: soze: Ehh, doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I don't think the fundies were seeking federal funding anyway. Let them pretend to be an institution of higher learning, the proof is all in the accreditations anyway.

They already pretend to be an institute of higher learning, this would just mean they get to call themselves "Dr. Makes shiatupalot PhD" and con an even greater number of rubes.

Note this wouldn't just apply to intelligent design creationists and folk. It would effectively make Texas a haven for woo. Just set up your 'school' for whatever brand of snake-oil you want to promote and hand out degrees to anyone willing to front you the cash.

Want a degree in applied Homeopathy? Done.
PhD in Neuro-psychic phenomena? No problem
Bachelors in Paranormal Detection with a minor in Astrological Dowsing? Here you go.

Texas is already a haven for stupid, let it become a haven for woo too.

Lumi: I'll charge like, $20 a diploma, $40 a doctorate. And they'll be valid!

The diploma should be printed on a t-shirt and feature the stupid tag. Charge for that too.

Lumi: I'm totally opening an Advanced Institute of Fark Studies with a P.O. Box in Texas. All I'll have to do is put up a website and have "substantive course work." Said substantive course work will consist of things like kitten-saving, must enter 3 Photoshop contests per semester, midterms will be creating a successful Politics tab troll alt, and so on and so forth.

I'll charge like, $20 a diploma, $40 a doctorate. And they'll be valid!

This is actually a pretty good idea. Why not start your own institution of "learning" for the price of a P.O. box? Hell, set up a website that takes care of all of the paperwork, and let anybody with an internet connection join in. Drown Texas in a sea of "degree"-granting bullshiat.

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Erik_Emune: It's not going to do much for the value of a US degree overseas.

This. Someone will have to start keeping tabs on who is state-accredited and who isn't, essentially leading to another tier of accreditation.

In general, no university over here will accept education from a college who doesn't have a regional accreditation from one of CHEA's regional organizations.

"What do you mean, you want to study for a master's degree? You don't even have a bachelor's degree."

LouDobbsAwaaaay: This is actually a pretty good idea. Why not start your own institution of "learning" for the price of a P.O. box? Hell, set up a website that takes care of all of the paperwork, and let anybody with an internet connection join in. Drown Texas in a sea of "degree"-granting bullshiat.

I made the honor roll because of my efforts in "Trolling 201 - Politics tab". The competition there is fierce!