I thought this was common knowledge.

Newsflash: Israeli lob strong in US, story at 11

Come on. You don't believe that subby. Obama will be visiting Gaza and negotiating with Hamas before the year is out.

notmtwain: Obama will be visiting Gaza

I think the secret service would collectively shiat their pants over the idea of trying to provide security in Gaza for the President

lobby, that is

Bored Horde: notmtwain: Obama will be visiting Gaza

I think the secret service would collectively shiat their pants over the idea of trying to provide security in Gaza for the President

Exactly. Not even the Secret Service can protect the President from Israel.

Awwwww.... those poor, poor, victimized Israelis. I feel so bad about their plight.

Can we get them another few thousand pallets of money, just so I feel better?

madmann: Awwwww.... those poor, poor, victimized Israelis. I feel so bad about their plight.

Can we get them another few thousand pallets of money, just so I feel better?

I'd prefer you guys shipped them pallets of 20's instead of new weapons for them to field test.

Auschwitz makes it ok for the Israelis to bombard Gaza with white phosphorus shells, and if you disagree with this or criticize them, it means that you hate jews and personally want to drive them naked into the showers.

HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Auschwitz makes it ok for the Israelis to bombard Gaza...want to drive them naked into the showers.

Ever notice how people who "merely dislike Israel and are in no way antisemitic no sirree" are the same people who glefully bring up nazis, Auschwitz and the holocaust in every debate about Israel?

Coincidence, I'm sure.

Bill_Wick's_Friend: HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Auschwitz makes it ok for the Israelis to bombard Gaza...want to drive them naked into the showers.

Ever notice how people who "merely dislike Israel and are in no way antisemitic no sirree" are the same people who glefully bring up nazis, Auschwitz and the holocaust in every debate about Israel?

Coincidence, I'm sure.

DENYER!!!

Bill_Wick's_Friend: HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Auschwitz makes it ok for the Israelis to bombard Gaza...want to drive them naked into the showers.

Ever notice how people who "merely dislike Israel and are in no way antisemitic no sirree" are the same people who glefully bring up nazis, Auschwitz and the holocaust in every debate about Israel?

Coincidence, I'm sure.

Ever notice how Israeli apologists always want to talk about how persecuted the Jews have been, unless you mention that they use that as an excuse for whatever behavior they want?

Coincidence, I'm sure.

And if the French, Spanish or Dutch exerted as much influence over American governmental policy as the Israelis, people would be aghast. Please, without using the persecution defense, explain why that should be.

Hell, even Britain, our "closest ally".... when's the last time they bragged about MAKING the US SoS change their vote in the UN....on a bill she personally helped draft?

I seem to remember a thread not too long ago where farkers put this guy through the ringer for ties to the Saudis and China. You don't think THAT may have been a reason for his 'fall from grace', as it were? You know, saying China should have squashed Tiananmen sooner, and calling the Tibet unrest a 'race riot', etc. Paid by Saudi lobbies and serving on a Chinese oil company board. To head the NIC.

I'm sure this guy isn't going to come out and say 'Yeah, my questionable statements and employment is why I'm resigning'...he'll blame the Israel lobbyists. While I'm sure they had a part in it, it's not nearly the complete picture. Except on fark.com, where the US is Israel's 'biatch' by people who have a childlike understanding of complex issues. Much easier that way.

HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Auschwitz makes it ok for the Israelis to bombard Gaza with white phosphorus shells, and if you disagree with this or criticize them, it means that you hate jews and personally want to drive them naked into the showers.

FAP FAP FAP

Bill_Wick's_Friend: HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Auschwitz makes it ok for the Israelis to bombard Gaza...want to drive them naked into the showers.

Ever notice how people who "merely dislike Israel and are in no way antisemitic no sirree" are the same people who glefully bring up nazis, Auschwitz and the holocaust in every debate about Israel?

Coincidence, I'm sure.

Madmann went ahead and handled my rebuttal to you for me.

You know what I'd like? Congressmen who only pledge allegiance to one country.

madmann: Ever notice how Israeli apologists always want to talk about how persecuted the Jews have been

Please point out where in this thread, in TFA or in any recent Israeli press that this is true. It really is more of a stereotype which was once true -- in the 50s and 60s, maybe as late as the 1970s.

Where do you see any Israeli politicians, columnists, opinion makers or even American Jews making this argument in any great numbers? It's a relic.

On the other hand, where do you see swastikas, nazi imagery and hear cries of "kill the jews!!"? Where do you see the painful scab of the holocaust so gleefullly and joyfully picked at? Look to your nearest anti-Israel rally....where they're in no way antisemitic, no sireee, they're just anti-Israel.



Like these nice people who are merely expressing political opinion and have no hatred for Jews at all.

Bill_Wick's_Friend: On the other hand, where do you see swastikas, nazi imagery and hear cries of "kill the jews!!"? Where do you see the painful scab of the holocaust so gleefullly and joyfully picked at? Look to your nearest anti-Israel rally....where they're in no way antisemitic, no sireee, they're just anti-Israel.

There it is folks, if you don't like every single thing Israel does, you're a Nazi.

headile FTFA: Freeman says pro-Israel lobby forced hand

I always knew the Jews were behind that mess a Black Mesa.

Bored Horde: There it is folks, if you don't like every single thing Israel does, you're a Nazi.

I never said that. Deliberate (and ham-fisted) distortion of my argument proves you have none of your own. Bravo.

Bill_Wick's_Friend: I never said that. Deliberate (and ham-fisted) distortion of my argument proves you have none of your own. Bravo.

Actually, you did just make an argument very close to that. You said "at your nearest anti-israel rally", and claimed that I would find the painful scab of hte holocaust gleefully and joyfully picked at.

I have the dubious pleasure of living near the People's Republic of Berkeley. I have several times had to wade through anti-Israel rallies. I have never seen, at these rallies, a single sign referring to the holocaust, nazi imagery, etc, except signs making the claim that the treatment by the Israeli's of the Palestinians is similar to that of the Jews by the Nazis. You may consider it more or less true, but it is a valid argument to make.

So, at the "nearest anti-Israel rally", I do not see Swastikas, nazi imagery, or cries of "Kill the Jews". Your statement is demonstrably false.

You're normally not a very hyperbolic person, and I'm surprised at this from you.

Will anti-Israel rallies attract anti-Semites? Definitely. Will anti-war rallies attract anarchists? Definitely. Does that mean all those at an anti-war rally are anarchist? No.

/Jewish.

Bill_Wick's_Friend: Bored Horde: There it is folks, if you don't like every single thing Israel does, you're a Nazi.

I never said that. Deliberate (and ham-fisted) distortion of my argument proves you have none of your own. Bravo.

You just came into the fricking thread with the bachkanded comments about how every one who claims to "not be antisemitic" usually "Gleefully" brings up the Nazis and the holocaust.

Guess what? I flat out hate the Israeli government. I think they are farking warmongering coonts, I think their policies towards the Palestinians are disgusting, and I find their religion to be fundamentally racist, in spite of having no more objection to Judaism than I do to every other group of organized fundamentalist windbags.

Does that mean I "speak gleefully about the holocaust". No, and fark you for suggesting that I do. However, the fact that the victims of one of history's greatest crimes seem to feel that they are now justified in visiting those same miseries on people who did nothing more than happen to live someplace the farking jews feel they should live IS a talking point which I am perfectly justified in bringing up, even if our government, media, and society are too chicken shiat to tell the truth about what's going on, lest DA JOOZ be offended.

Is it possible to discuss Jews or Israel without someone bringing up the Holocaust or Nazis?

FTA:

WASHINGTON, March 12 (UPI) -- A U.S. intelligence adviser blamed a pro-Israel lobby for an aggressive online campaign that forced him to withdraw as National Intelligence Council chairman.

Oohhh. "Agressive online campaign". "Forced".

Yeah, it has nothing to do with anything this asshole did. Naw. The interwebz forced him to withdraw. DAMN THOSE JOOOOOOS AND THEIR INTARWEBZ.

If I could have one wish, then I would wish that one morning, Israel and Palestine would awaken to find all their children gone, vanished into thin air, never to be found again. There'd be some shock at first, maybe some tears, but soon enough they'd get right back into the same foolish game of blaming one another, and the killing would continue same as it always has...

But at least the children wouldn't have to suffer anymore.

I think it had more to do with him being farking insane and less about some secret plot by the jooooos.

God, fark them. I hate how much influence Israel has in our gov't, it's so counter to our national interests. Not to mention, it's a spit in the face of our other ME allies (well, ally really).

Semi-Sane: Is it possible to discuss Jews or Israel without someone bringing up the Holocaust or Nazis?

Is it possible to discuss Ted Kennedy without bringing up Mary Jo Kopechnic?

Change you can believe in.

I am utterly disgusted by this. When is America going to realize that as a superpower cowering towards Israel makes us look weak and impotent.

Sad to see this country has decided to be the biatch to a nation that offers nothing but a farking desert.

Obdicut: So, at the "nearest anti-Israel rally", I do not see Swastikas, nazi imagery, or cries of "Kill the Jews". Your statement is demonstrably false.

You're normally not a very hyperbolic person, and I'm surprised at this from you.

I'm gonna believe you or my lying eyes?

Every anti-Israel rally I've had the pleasure (?) of driving past or wading thru has had more swastikas and auschwitz references than the 20th century German history section at Chapters.

1) No, not everyone at these rallies hates Jews. Many do. For many it's impossible to separate "jew" from "israeli" in their minds. For some it's nice to find a politically correct outlet for their antisemitism. It is "genteel", in the same way the word "antisemitism" was in replacing "judenhaas". It's acceptable.

2) The use of nazi imagery at these rallies is there for one reason -- to inflame and anger. "Picking a scab" is the sole reason for it. It's certainly effective and angering Jews of all political persuasions -- even those on the far left like these guys .

Some Palestine activists, when linking the swastika to symbols of the state of Israel, feel that they are re-contextualizing Nazi symbol to make a political statement. Their rationalization, though, misses the point: a movement that is mobilized against a state supported by most of organized Jewry ought not to be carrying around swastikas. It's not good for Palestine, and it's not good for the Jews.

3) If the Israelis WERE anything like the nazis there would be no more Palestinians. Israel has the military might to flatten every Palestinian village and city and settlement and has had that power for as long as there has been a Palestinian Authority and before.

Shryke: FTA:

WASHINGTON, March 12 (UPI) -- A U.S. intelligence adviser blamed a pro-Israel lobby for an aggressive online campaign that forced him to withdraw as National Intelligence Council chairman.

Oohhh. "Agressive online campaign". "Forced".

Yeah, it has nothing to do with anything this asshole did. Naw. The interwebz forced him to withdraw. DAMN THOSE JOOOOOOS AND THEIR INTARWEBZ.



It's all just slander and libel.

And if I was Religious, I'd be damn weary of people using my Religion for political purposes.

Semi-Sane: Is it possible to discuss Jews or Israel without someone bringing up the Holocaust or Nazis?

Short answer: No

Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

/ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
//Obscure? Doubtful

How did he get nominated in the first place if this "cabal" controls so much?

At least they didn't fire white phosphorous at him. Yet.

Bill_Wick's_Friend: HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Auschwitz makes it ok for the Israelis to bombard Gaza...want to drive them naked into the showers.

Ever notice how people who "merely dislike Israel and are in no way antisemitic no sirree" are the same people who glefully bring up nazis, Auschwitz and the holocaust in every debate about Israel?

Coincidence, I'm sure.

It wasn't brought up in a celebratory manner.

Aside from that, people fret about the world forgetting those things. You should say thank you for every mention.

Evil Ghandi: Semi-Sane: Is it possible to discuss Jews or Israel without someone bringing up the Holocaust or Nazis?

Short answer: No

Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

/ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
//Obscure? Doubtful

Haven't a farking clue why the o's got broken up like that.

pro-israel: "we've been opressed and finally get a country so we'll defend the hell out of it!"

anti-israel: "Why are you using an evil act as justification for your evil acts"

pro-israel: "OMG WHY DID YOU BRING UP THE HOLOCAUST?!? My great grandad knew someone who was in a camp! That makes my views on current Israel policy more valid than yours!"

*both sides argue about the holocaust and formation of israel and the atrocities both sides have commited in Israel whilst not actually addressing the actual topic at hand*

DarnoKonrad: Shryke: FTA:

WASHINGTON, March 12 (UPI) -- A U.S. intelligence adviser blamed a pro-Israel lobby for an aggressive online campaign that forced him to withdraw as National Intelligence Council chairman.

Oohhh. "Agressive online campaign". "Forced".

Yeah, it has nothing to do with anything this asshole did. Naw. The interwebz forced him to withdraw. DAMN THOSE JOOOOOOS AND THEIR INTARWEBZ.



It's all just slander and libel.

And if I was Religious, I'd be damn weary of people using my Religion for political purposes.

Hey there. How did I know you'd be here, and how'd I know which side of the issue you'd be on?

Talk about crazy, right?

Shryke: FTA:

WASHINGTON, March 12 (UPI) -- A U.S. intelligence adviser blamed a pro-Israel lobby for an aggressive online campaign that forced him to withdraw as National Intelligence Council chairman.

Oohhh. "Agressive online campaign". "Forced".

Yeah, it has nothing to do with anything this asshole did. Naw.

What did he do?

Danielsan: I seem to remember a thread not too long ago where farkers put this guy through the ringer for ties to the Saudis and China. You don't think THAT may have been a reason for his 'fall from grace', as it were? You know, saying China should have squashed Tiananmen sooner, and calling the Tibet unrest a 'race riot', etc. Paid by Saudi lobbies and serving on a Chinese oil company board. To head the NIC.

I'm sure this guy isn't going to come out and say 'Yeah, my questionable statements and employment is why I'm resigning'...he'll blame the Israel lobbyists. While I'm sure they had a part in it, it's not nearly the complete picture. Except on fark.com, where the US is Israel's 'biatch' by people who have a childlike understanding of complex issues. Much easier that way.

The only thing I hear on the radio is that he hates Jews. I guarantee you that the China and Saudi ties have almost nothing to do with it. This is the work of AIPAC. Finally somebody here in DC with clout says without apology what everybody else knows is true and is too scared to say (save Michael Scheuer).

Bill_Wick's_Friend: Obdicut: So, at the "nearest anti-Israel rally", I do not see Swastikas, nazi imagery, or cries of "Kill the Jews". Your statement is demonstrably false.

You're normally not a very hyperbolic person, and I'm surprised at this from you.

I'm gonna believe you or my lying eyes?

Every anti-Israel rally I've had the pleasure (?) of driving past or wading thru has had more swastikas and auschwitz references than the 20th century German history section at Chapters.

1) No, not everyone at these rallies hates Jews. Many do. For many it's impossible to separate "jew" from "israeli" in their minds. For some it's nice to find a politically correct outlet for their antisemitism. It is "genteel", in the same way the word "antisemitism" was in replacing "judenhaas". It's acceptable.

2) The use of nazi imagery at these rallies is there for one reason -- to inflame and anger. "Picking a scab" is the sole reason for it. It's certainly effective and angering Jews of all political persuasions -- even those on the far left like these guys .

Some Palestine activists, when linking the swastika to symbols of the state of Israel, feel that they are re-contextualizing Nazi symbol to make a political statement. Their rationalization, though, misses the point: a movement that is mobilized against a state supported by most of organized Jewry ought not to be carrying around swastikas. It's not good for Palestine, and it's not good for the Jews.

3) If the Israelis WERE anything like the nazis there would be no more Palestinians. Israel has the military might to flatten every Palestinian village and city and settlement and has had that power for as long as there has been a Palestinian Authority and before.

Israel is not in the same place they were 60 years ago, and it's time to reconsider our stance w/ the nation. The roles have been dramatically reversed with Israel's military strength and past abuses.

Fluck Nazis, and fluck those who adopt/co opt their symbols. My disdain for the Israeli gov't is completely legitimate .

GAT_00: You know what I'd like? Congressmen who only pledge allegiance to one country.

Canada?

HotWingConspiracy: What did he do?

He dared to criticize Israel.

Too bad Freeman is a lying, self-serving POS.

He doesnt mention he thinks that the US brought 9/11 upon it's self, does he? But he said it.

He doesnt mention he thought the Chinese govt should have fired on the students in Tianemen Square long before they did, does he?
But he said it.

He doesnt mention being on the payroll for the Saudi or Chinese
governments, does he? But he is.

And yet, even thought he is on their payrolls he says he can offer
'unbiased' advice?

You Israeli and Jew haters will grasp at any straw in order
to avoid the truth.

AIPAC never took a stand on his nomination.

The person who really complained was PELOSI but you don't see that mentioned very often.

You want the truth? Go to the WASHINGTON POST from yesterday and
read the editorial they wrote about this and Freeman.

Or is the WaPo under the influence of the 'Jewish lobby' too?

And, no, I'm not Jewish, Israeli or a semite in any form; I just
despise people lying, as Freeman is doing.

If you're out there telling people that "the Israeli lobby" is out to get you, then maybe you didn't deserve the position you were after.

You're not going to win over the moderates by framing the problem as though there's a coordinated conspiracy (of jews) out to get you, and not just a handful of pro-Israeli bloggers who cross link each other's stories.

KaponoFor3: Newsflash: Israeli lobby strong in US, story at 11

So Human Rights Watch is part of the Israeli lobby now? (Click the link, it's got this modern-day Wormtongue in his own words.)

I was not opposed to Freeman because he opposed certain Israeli policies, or a believer in the realist school of foreign policy. I was opposed to Freeman because he was a f*cking boot-licking apologist and shill for the Saudis and Communist Chinese. Yeah, free speech and all that, but when you put your name forward to be the person who vets what intelligence the President sees, after writing paeans to Mao Zedong and King Saud, that's flat out unacceptable.

Sure.

It has nothing to do with him supporting CHina's crack down on dissidents. Nothing to do with him being on the board of a Chinese owned company that was doing business in Sudan during the massacres in Darfur. Nothing to do with him being the head of a group (MPEC) thaat supports learning aids that say America was discovered by muslims ( http://www.americanthinker.com/2004/04/your_children_may_learn_that_m.html ).