The difference is the Monkees had people like Carole King and Harry Nilson writing the tunes, and the famous Phil Spector Wrecking Crew playing on the records, aside from the songs that they wrote and played on themselves. They had good songwriting and good musicianship on their albums. Brit-brit, the Jonas Brothers and the rest have neither.

During their first publicity concerts before the show aired, the Monkees played live as a group. Micky had cram-studied drum lessons so that he could keep up. They were under the impression that only "Last Train to Clarksville" was going to be played primarily by studio musicians.

Mike Nesmith and Peter Tork were extremely pissed when they found out they weren't playing their instruments on the first album. Tork showed up the first day at the recording studio with his guitar, and he ended up playing fifth banana to studio musicians (including Glen Campbell).

It's a shame that they got stuck with the "prefab" reputation. Though they didn't come together organically, they wanted to be a group in their own right, and they fought their management very hard to be one and have creative control over their own music.

On a final note, though they don't get airtime anymore, the songs Nesmith wrote (IMHO) as as good as any pop tunes written during the era. "You Told Me," "You Just May Be the One," "Sunny Girlfriend" and "Nine Times Blue" are excellent stuff. He's one of the seriously under-appreciated talents of the 1960s.

It's only rock n roll people.

Jann Wenner banning them from the RnR HOF 'cause they're inauthentic?

Pot/Kettle, Wenner, you douche.

The Monkees at least had the intelligence and self-awareness to understand, and more importantly accept, that they were being put together for commercial purposes.

Britney apparently doesn't realize that her entire career has been managed and manipulated by Disney, her parents, et al. so that she'll serve as a revenue-producing machine.

El Freak: The difference is the Monkees had people like Carole King and Harry Nilson writing the tunes, and the famous Phil Spector Wrecking Crew playing on the records, aside from the songs that they wrote and played on themselves. They had good songwriting and good musicianship on their albums. Brit-brit, the Jonas Brothers and the rest have neither.

Sure, but did the Monkees ever have their pussy falling out?

It should also be noted that the Beatles and the Beach Boys didn't exactly play every single string part, french horn, or keyboard line on their albums, either. "Eleanor Rigby"?

BKITU: "You Told Me," "You Just May Be the One," "Sunny Girlfriend" and "Nine Times Blue" are excellent stuff.

Don't forget "The Girl I Knew Somewhere", "Daily Nightly" (the FIRST rock song with a synthesizer on it), "The Door into Summer", and especially "Love is Only Sleeping" - a song in 7/4 about impotence. By the Monkees.

playblu: It should also be noted that the Beatles and the Beach Boys didn't exactly play every single string part, french horn, or keyboard line on their albums, either. "Eleanor Rigby"?

at the time, Eleanor Rigby was an oddity for the Beatles. And I don't think anyone is biatching about the Beatles not playing every single instrument, but they did play their own, by and large.

DrZiffle: It's only rock n roll people

But I like it.

/Yes I do.

playblu: Don't forget "The Girl I Knew Somewhere", "Daily Nightly" (the FIRST rock song with a synthesizer on it), "The Door into Summer", and especially "Love is Only Sleeping" - a song in 7/4 about impotence. By the Monkees.

The first two are also great stuff he wrote -- and "Daily Nightly" should be clarified to be the first rock song with a MOOG synthesizer on it. (Micky owns the third one ever made.)

I left out "The Door Into Summer" and "Love is Only Sleeping" because Nesmith didn't write them, he just sang them. They are, however, amazing songs that are also sorely missed on oldies stations.

/"The Door Into Summer" -- Written by Chip Douglas and Bill Martin
//"Love is Only Sleeping" -- Written by Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil

DrZiffle: It's only rock n roll people.

Jann Wenner banning them from the RnR HOF 'cause they're inauthentic?

Pot/Kettle, Wenner, you douche.

This

FTA:

What will it take for the snobbish rock fan to respect such bands. Should they seek out Ricardo Villalobos to produce their next album, or go on tour with the Boredoms? What would it take for Radiohead to actually want to meet Miley Cyrus? Hannah Montana recording a dubstep emo opera? As the Monkees proved, the search for authenticity in pop is a perilous road and the aftermath is sometimes great, sometimes horrendous, with time being the only true judge of authenticity, and hey if the Sex Pistols cover one of your hits, why bother worrying about outdated notions of authenticity.

I doubt that "snobbish" rock fans care for Villalobos, the Boredoms, or dubstep. Most "snobbish" rock fans seem to hate "electronic" music with a passion unless it's coming from Radiohead.

P.S. Villalobos is the most overhyped, garbage producer in minimal techno today. He's released some of the most boring and directionless records I have ever heard.

BKITU: I left out "The Door Into Summer" and "Love is Only Sleeping" because Nesmith didn't write them, he just sang them.

DOH! Okay then, "If I Ever Get to Saginaw Again" and "St. Matthew".

The notion of a band becoming popular through television and gaining credibility is still an anathema today, with the lambasting of the Jonas Brothers, Miley Cyrus, X Factor and American Idol. What will it take for the snobbish rock fan to respect such bands?

Nullset.

DrZiffle: It's only rock n roll people.

Jann Wenner banning them from the RnR HOF 'cause they're inauthentic?

Pot/Kettle, Wenner, you douche.

THIS.
IMHO it is probably more of a case of Jann not liking their music. He IS the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame, and if he is not a fan, then you are not getting in. Just ask Deep Purple, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, etc. Black Sabbath and Lynyrd Skynyrd barely made it in after repeated nominations. Love 'em or hate 'em, all the bands I just listed had a huge impact on bands that followed. This is supposedly one of the criteria for induction. But by now music fans know that the yearly hall inductions are a joke. Madonna? Seriously? Donna Summer? umm, okay. Sure they made good music, but are they "rock and roll"? No, but Jann Wenner likes them.

/Deep Purple will make it one day
//I'm a believer

Warpigpen: DrZiffle: It's only rock n roll people.

Jann Wenner banning them from the RnR HOF 'cause they're inauthentic?

Pot/Kettle, Wenner, you douche.

THIS.
IMHO it is probably more of a case of Jann not liking their music. He IS the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame, and if he is not a fan, then you are not getting in. Just ask Deep Purple, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, etc. Black Sabbath and Lynyrd Skynyrd barely made it in after repeated nominations. Love 'em or hate 'em, all the bands I just listed had a huge impact on bands that followed. This is supposedly one of the criteria for induction. But by now music fans know that the yearly hall inductions are a joke. Madonna? Seriously? Donna Summer? umm, okay. Sure they made good music, but are they "rock and roll"? No, but Jann Wenner likes them.

/Deep Purple will make it one day
//I'm a believer

And by this very logic posted above, you can damn well bet that Spears will be inducted first ballot, and thus the suckitude of the RRHoF will be complete.

BKITU: playblu: Don't forget "The Girl I Knew Somewhere", "Daily Nightly" (the FIRST rock song with a synthesizer on it), "The Door into Summer", and especially "Love is Only Sleeping" - a song in 7/4 about impotence. By the Monkees.

The first two are also great stuff he wrote -- and "Daily Nightly" should be clarified to be the first rock song with a MOOG synthesizer on it. (Micky owns the third one ever made.)

In a perfect world, most of the Monkees should have been rock producers. They may not have been great musicians, but the band members had some pretty solid rock sensibilities for good and different music.

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Used to be (maybe still is?) a restaurant in Lex. KY called Wok n Go.

Their motto, of course, "I know it's only Wok n Go, but I like it."

The biggest problem is the name of the institution. Call it the Pop Music HOF, or have a separate one for every genre. I just looked at the induction list from year 1 to this year, and many names there, although talented, reeeeeally stretch the definition of 'Rock 'n Roll'.

An article written by someone who evidently knows nothing about the Monkees. People knew pretty much from the start that the Monkees didn't play their instruments. But that's not even true -- both Nesmith and Tork played on the first album (they were musicians previously, after all).

And no one with a brain ever though the Monkees wrote their songs. All their singles listed the actual songwriters (Nesmith got credit for a couple of songs on their albums).

The Monkees didn't "reveal" they didn't perform the instruments -- the very publicly demanded that they be allowed to play. And the announcement did not cause people to feel contempt for them -- it increased respect for them among musicians. As Lillian Roxon said, "It was not done to put down the Monkees."

Most people in the field understood that they were being forced into boxes they didn't want to be in by their managers and record company. And they knew exactly what the Monkees were going through, since all pro musicians had the same problems.

Other than not having a single fact on his side to prove his thesis, though it's a good article.

FTA: What does it take to be considered "4 real"?

Answer:

That guy is doing it wrong. It's down the road, not across the street.

RealityChuck: An article written by someone who evidently knows nothing about the Monkees.

That sounds about right for anything regarding Alan McGee, considering he's perpetually got his head up his ass and wouldn't be anywhere without stumbling on Oasis. He nearly drove Creation into the ground with his buffoonery and general lack of sense, even though he had a lot of talented bands in his arsenal.

It's also why he's always promoting crappy music (i.e. Villalobos) - it's his modus operandi, since he's one of many that sees music as a dollar sign and not a form of expression. In short, he's a wanker.

/sorry to rant
//over-passionate MBV fan, so I make no excuses for my bias
///The Monkees had good to great tunes, which a lot of current popsters do not
////that's it and that's all

H31N0US: The notion of a band becoming popular through television and gaining credibility is still an anathema today, with the lambasting of the Jonas Brothers, Miley Cyrus, X Factor and American Idol. What will it take for the snobbish rock fan to respect such bands?

Nullset.

When we hear them play/sing/lipsync good music

Oh, and Madonna "played" on her albums? She couldn't even play ANY musical instrument for most of her career, and yet somehow she was able to "write" songs?

Mmmmmkay.

BKITU: On a final note, though they don't get airtime anymore, the songs Nesmith wrote (IMHO) as as good as any pop tunes written during the era. "You Told Me," "You Just May Be the One," "Sunny Girlfriend" and "Nine Times Blue" are excellent stuff. He's one of the seriously under-appreciated talents of the 1960s.

and What Am I Doing Hangin' Round?... one of the first and best Country Rock songs.

I adore the Monkees.

Also, ricewater, Madonna actually played some guitar in her early band before she was signed as a solo artist. So there's that.

Boris S. Wort: and What Am I Doing Hangin' Round?... one of the first and best Country Rock songs.

Another good one. Another one, however, that Mike sang but didn't write. ;)

/Written by Michael Martin Murphey and Owens Castleman

BKITU: Boris S. Wort: and What Am I Doing Hangin' Round?... one of the first and best Country Rock songs.

Another good one. Another one, however, that Mike sang but didn't write. ;)

/Written by Michael Martin Murphey and Owens Castleman

Dang

As long as were throwing out Nez tunes, gotta put in mentions for "Carlisle Wheeling" and "Tapioca Tundra."