Approves

Hehe. +1 subby

*Waits for rabid Randians to flood in.*

coco ebert: Hehe. +1 subby

*Waits for rabid Randians to flood in.*

They're actually too busy prepping for the inevitable collapse.

I Morningbreath, and I am speaking to you from the death bed of your mind.

FTA: The book even cracked the top 40 on Amazon's bestsellers list, briefly besting Barack Obama's memoir The Audacity of Hope.

Impressive and scary.

So basically the wingnut PACs decided to stock up on them to give to the sheep at their conventions.

skinbubble: FTA: The book even cracked the top 40 on Amazon's bestsellers list, briefly besting Barack Obama's memoir The Audacity of Hope.

Impressive and scary.

A lot of what Rand talked about in Atlas Shrugged is happening right now. THAT thought is even scarier. Wall street, for some reason, woke up one day and decided to act like Rand's villians.

Dinki: So basically the wingnut PACs decided to stock up on them to give to the sheep at their conventions.

And they'll repackage this neo-conservative garbage again as a new revolutionary idea. It will be promoted by people too young to realize that's what got us into the mess in the first place.

/but they'll use Twitter to promote it, that's how it will be different!

Etchy333: Dinki: So basically the wingnut PACs decided to stock up on them to give to the sheep at their conventions.

And they'll repackage this neo-conservative garbage again as a new revolutionary idea. It will be promoted by people too young to realize that's what got us into the mess in the first place.

/but they'll use Twitter to promote it, that's how it will be different!

actually, if the Republicans try to co-opt Rand's ideals, they'll get eaten alive.

/pleased

Oh dear John Galt I wanted to make haste; while young I found your speech in such bad taste. But old and withered, sad and bitter, I see how right you are now. Alas, children, heed my lessons- a mere 3 hour lecture can save you from a lifetime of totalitarian spectors.

sloppy shoes: Oh dear John Galt I wanted to make haste; while young I found your speech in such bad taste. But old and withered, sad and bitter, I see how right you are now. Alas, children, heed my lessons- a mere 3 hour lecture can save you from a lifetime of totalitarian spectors.

How many times you gonna post that anyway? I've seen you copy/paste that a couple times now.

Until the libtards understand that sucking the cock of the Daily Kos is for idiots?

Weaver95: How many times you gonna post that anyway? I've seen you copy/paste that a couple times now.

Actually that was the first time I've copied and pasted it. So twice, probably.

The previous thread it was original.

sloppy shoes: Weaver95: How many times you gonna post that anyway? I've seen you copy/paste that a couple times now.

Actually that was the first time I've copied and pasted it. So twice once, probably.

The previous thread it was original.

FTFM. Twice total. Once copy pasted

sloppy shoes: Weaver95: How many times you gonna post that anyway? I've seen you copy/paste that a couple times now.

Actually that was the first time I've copied and pasted it. So twice, probably.

The previous thread it was original.

It didn't make any sense then, and it makes even less sense now. Do you even know what Rand was trying to say when she wrote Atlas Shrugged?

Weaver95: It didn't make any sense then, and it makes even less sense now. Do you even know what Rand was trying to say when she wrote Atlas Shrugged?

It's an allusion to the old and bitter conservatives on Fark who have learned that everything in politics is out of power and spite and there is no hope in the world, and that we should be rugged individualists because nothing really matters and no one really cares about anything except for themselves- a rather trite hyperbole of the world, and Rand's politics. But Rand's philosophy was itself perverse and simplistic.

It was meant as a couple to the cult of the Anti-Autos, who will scream "Fail," "Die," and "Unions" to the very end, even if their chanting dulls out the sharp screech of the heart machine connected to the moribund reality we face by enacting their policies punishing everyone for the failure of the few. And that is why it would have rained on Ayn's wedding day, for Objectivism is just another mirror to powder our painted peacocks, but never realize the truth.

sloppy shoes: Weaver95: It didn't make any sense then, and it makes even less sense now. Do you even know what Rand was trying to say when she wrote Atlas Shrugged?

It's an allusion to the old and bitter conservatives on Fark who have learned that everything in politics is out of power and spite and there is no hope in the world, and that we should be rugged individualists because nothing really matters and no one really cares about anything except for themselves- a rather trite hyperbole of the world, and Rand's politics. But Rand's philosophy was itself perverse and simplistic.

It was meant as a couple to the cult of the Anti-Autos, who will scream "Fail," "Die," and "Unions" to the very end, even if their chanting dulls out the sharp screech of the heart machine connected to the moribund reality we face by enacting their policies punishing everyone for the failure of the few. And that is why it would have rained on Ayn's wedding day, for Objectivism is just another mirror to powder our painted peacocks, but never realize the truth.

all of which tells me you HAVEN'T read Atlas Shrugged, nor taken any time to really understand what she was trying to explain.

Weaver95:
all of which tells me you HAVEN'T read Atlas Shrugged, nor taken any time to really understand what she was trying to explain.

Okay, Weaver, in your opinion, what is she trying to explain?

sloppy shoes: Weaver95:
all of which tells me you HAVEN'T read Atlas Shrugged, nor taken any time to really understand what she was trying to explain.

Okay, Weaver, in your opinion, what is she trying to explain?

It would be easier to correct your misconceptions than it would be to paraphrase Atlas Shrugged and hope you get the gist of it. So let's try this from another angle - what do YOU think Rand was saying in Atlas Shrugged?

Weaver95:
It would be easier to correct your misconceptions than it would be to paraphrase Atlas Shrugged and hope you get the gist of it. So let's try this from another angle - what do YOU think Rand was saying in Atlas Shrugged?

I think Rand is a self absorbed idiot who has essentially no grasp of society or how it operates. I think she could aptly be described by someone who developed her philosophy and model for economics based on this (new window) playhouse Disney show.

So I think it's best for you to just describe what Rand means to you and what she is trying to portray.

Weaver95: all of which tells me you HAVEN'T read Atlas Shrugged, nor taken any time to really understand what she was trying to explain.

Holy shiat, the weav is broken again.

Rand's philosophy isn't even coherent, and it necessitates, like communism, completely overlooking human nature.

In Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" world, creative people are always ethically good. There is no such thing, in Atlas Shrugged, as an immoral and productive person, or even an ethically neutral and productive person. According to her philosophy, productivity stems from virtue. That's nuts.

In Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" world, all of the industrialists cooperate with each other in what is ironically a nearly communist fashion. There is no competition between industrialists; you've got railroad people working with steel-makers, you never, ever have an example of competition between two people in the same field. It acts as though the heart of capitalism-- competition to deliver the same good, same service-- simply doesn't exist, except between the Good company and the Bad company. It never handles competition between the Good and the Good.

The ideas that are strong and good in Rand are not original with Rand; the ideas that are original with Rand are obviously untrue.


Now, "The Fountainhead" is actually something kind of interesting, because it deals both with an evil creative/productive person, and shows more clearly that her heroes are different than normal humans. Whether or not, in The Fountainhead, she's actually promulgating any kind of philosophy is more difficult to determine.


Moreover, your contention that Wall Street are acting like Rand's villains shows the torturous route you have to use to apply her ideas to the real world; the Wall Street guys made billions of dollars by perfectly legitimate, if stupidly risky, capitalism. They made bets that the housing market would keep going up, forever. They didn't do any of the actions that Rand's villains do in "Atlas Shrugged". If you're going to keep up this idiotic contention, you might at least mention which of the actions of Rand's villains you feel Wall Street has taken.


There is no end to the extent to which Rand's philosophy can be criticized. If nothing else, it's a beautiful model of broken thought, a handy framework of bad premises, contradictory theories, and circular logic.

sloppy shoes: I think Rand is a self absorbed idiot who has essentially no grasp of society or how it operates. I think she could aptly be described by someone who developed her philosophy and model for economics based on this (new window) playhouse Disney show.

So I think it's best for you to just describe what Rand means to you and what she is trying to portray.

So...you really don't have any idea at all of what she was saying.

*sigh*

This is going to take a while. Let me ponder a bit how to best explain it to you.

Obdicut - i'll destroy you later. As you are well aware, you're fairly low on the target priority list.

Weaver95:
Obdicut - i'll destroy you later. As you are well aware, you're fairly low on the target priority list.

Out of curiosity, does this mean I'm high on your target priority list? Why?

Weaver95: Obdicut - i'll destroy you later. As you are well aware, you're fairly low on the target priority list.

I love it when you go internet internet tough guy.

Have you read Bass's critique of one of Rand's largest flaws, her denial that rational actors can ever have conflict?

If you do a search for him, you'll find it-- it's on Geocities, which Fark doesn't like.

Here's a link to his detailed and lucid response to various Rand afficianadoes who criticized his article; in many ways, it's superior to his original article. I heartily recommend it:

Link (new window) (messy formatting due to HTML version of PDF).

Obdicut: If you do a search for him, you'll find it-- it's on Geocities, which Fark doesn't like.

heh. geocities.

it's also led to spike in The Communist Manifesto sales too

i'm not seeing what makes this special

Would you kindly all just chill out?


/see how long it takes.....

Ha. Headline is funny. 加一。

Objectivism is pure nuttery. It is also, incidentally, totalitarian fascism wrapped in pacifistic libertarianism's clothing. Logically speaking, the principles of her ideology lead inescapably to what might be called "capitalism by force;" or fascism. It is no coincidence that Rand was a Nazi sympathizer in WW2.

I am shocked, SHOCKED I SAY, to read that Weaver95 is an objecti-nut.

Weaver95: You want to offer objective criticisms of the arguments of your foes instead of relying on sidestepping questions and lameass puerile playground comebacks??

Here's my thing with objectivism - how is it any different than social darwinism?

which are the parts about polyamory?

He raised his hand over the desolate earth and he traced in space the sign of the dollar secret Swiss bank account.

Noone's posted this yet?

Weaver95: all of which tells me you HAVEN'T read Atlas Shrugged, nor taken any time to really understand what she was trying to explain.

Eh, I tried the nonfiction "Capitalism: the Unknown Ideal". She has some interesting ideas, but several critical errors in her reasoning undermine it terribly.

She neglected cumulative effect of de minimus information costs in analysis of the marketplace. Presuming one accepts the Second Law of Thermodynamics as Objectively true, her conception of Right to Life and Right to Property can be shown to be sloppy approximations and not the absolute she asserts; they're usually correct, but not universally correct. She also presumes that morality is finitely expressible (and thus, expressible via a finite set of ethical principles), that ethics is invariant for (and not an Objectively defined function of) the moral entity and the environment of the moral choice for said entity; she fails to define an Individual so as to resolve the Ship of Theseus riddle, and her rejection of the very possibility of "society" having meaning is flawed.

Those are only the most memorable.

I'll also note that science and engineering in the real world don't work like Rearden does it, based on my glance at the Cliff Notes summary.

I would recommend anyone enthralled by Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" or "Fountainhead" should take a close read through Neil Stephenson's Diamond Age.

"Nell," the Constable continued, indicating through his tone of voice that the lesson was concluding, "the difference between ignorant and educated people is that the latter know more facts. But that has nothing to do with whether they are stupid or intelligent. The difference between stupid and intelligent people-and this is true whether or not they are well-educated-is that intelligent people can handle subtlety. They are not baffled by ambiguous or even contradictory situations-in fact, they expect them and are apt to become suspicious when things seem overly straightforward."

Klingon Penis: I am shocked, SHOCKED I SAY, to read that Weaver95 is an objecti-nut.

I believe the polite terms these days are "Randroid" or "Randtard."

Obdicult Actually Atlas shrugged shows plenty of corrupt producers, Orren Boyle for example. Their corruption eventually destroys themm, but they do start out as, or take over for producing companies. And as for the lack of competition, in Galt's Gulch you see those on strike anxious for competition. I don't remember the fellow's name witht he foundry, who can hardly wait for Hank Rearden to arrive and probably put him out of business. One of the core ideas at the heart of AS is the desire to compete, not amongst the bad but amongst the good. Dagny Taggart in the very onset of the novel is anxious to go all in against the Phonix-Durango, and is angry when she doesn't get the chance. Please RTFB before you make comments. :D

Dear pseudo-intellectual butthurt Fark Independents™:

You and your ideology have been repeatedly rejected by voters, and the author of your most holy tracts has been pwnded repeatedly. Her work has been shown to be far past its mid-20th century sell date.

What will you do now?

To whine about those liberals who are so often correct and who expose you as cold, inconsiderate, and inhumane, turn to page 25.

To carve away on your wrist with a letter opener while complaining about stuff that Obama will be soon be fixing much to your emo chagrin, turn to page 57.

DamnYankees: Here's my thing with objectivism - how is it any different than social darwinism?

Social Darwinism pays more attention to raising children and the continuity of society.

captain_heroic44: I believe the polite terms these days are "Randroid" or "Randtard."

I prefer "Paultard", except most of them jumped off St. Paul's bandwagon when it finally became clear all the money they donated was going to waste.

Weaver95: sloppy shoes: I think Rand is a self absorbed idiot who has essentially no grasp of society or how it operates. I think she could aptly be described by someone who developed her philosophy and model for economics based on this (new window) playhouse Disney show.

So I think it's best for you to just describe what Rand means to you and what she is trying to portray.

So...you really don't have any idea at all of what she was saying.

*sigh*

This is going to take a while. Let me ponder a bit how to best explain it to you.

Obdicut - i'll destroy you later. As you are well aware, you're fairly low on the target priority list.

A homophobic yet anti-prohibitionist "objectivist"?

Who commonly posts amusing stories about how much more reasonable he is when compared to his socially conservative pappy?

Who thinks Ayn Rand was actually right?

Weaver - I've been reading your stuff for a long time, and I agree with much of what you say, but god DAMN you are an enigma.

And wrong about Rand.

Batshiat crazy old loon.

liquidred: Obdicult Actually Atlas shrugged shows plenty of corrupt producers, Orren Boyle for example. Their corruption eventually destroys themm, but they do start out as, or take over for producing companies. And as for the lack of competition, in Galt's Gulch you see those on strike anxious for competition. I don't remember the fellow's name witht he foundry, who can hardly wait for Hank Rearden to arrive and probably put him out of business. One of the core ideas at the heart of AS is the desire to compete, not amongst the bad but amongst the good. Dagny Taggart in the very onset of the novel is anxious to go all in against the Phonix-Durango, and is angry when she doesn't get the chance. Please RTFB before you make comments. :D

You are aware it's in the fiction section, right?

liquidred: Obdicult Actually Atlas shrugged shows plenty of corrupt producers, Orren Boyle for example. Their corruption eventually destroys themm, but they do start out as, or take over for producing companies. And as for the lack of competition, in Galt's Gulch you see those on strike anxious for competition. I don't remember the fellow's name witht he foundry, who can hardly wait for Hank Rearden to arrive and probably put him out of business. One of the core ideas at the heart of AS is the desire to compete, not amongst the bad but amongst the good. Dagny Taggart in the very onset of the novel is anxious to go all in against the Phonix-Durango, and is angry when she doesn't get the chance. Please RTFB before you make comments. :D

No. In Rand's mind, the corrupt ones were not producers. They were parasitic second-handers. Her worldview is Manichean. There is good and there is evil, and never the twain shall meet.

abb3w: DamnYankees: Here's my thing with objectivism - how is it any different than social darwinism?

Social Darwinism pays more attention to raising children and the continuity of society.

I would recommend people read Foutainhead. If you like Fountainhead then go ahead and read Atlas Shrugged. If you don't like Foutainhead don't waste your time with Atlas Shrugged.

Twilight is a better book than Atlas Shrugged. Watership Down is better than Twilight.

zephyy: it's also led to spike in The Communist Manifesto sales too

i'm not seeing what makes this special

Sorry. That was me. I wore out my last copy and had to replace it.

In before the "burn the libertarians!" and "Ayn Rand was a GOD" wharrgarbl gets unbearable, I should say that I hold a special place in my heart for Ayn Rand.

More importantly, even though her central thesis is deeply (DEEPLY) flawed, certain ideas of hers bleed throughout society; for one thing, Jimmy Wales contributes Ayn Rand to being an inspiration for wikipedia.
Furthermore, her themes of "Bureaucracies trivializes and consume the individual" have popped up sporadically in popular culture, the most notable examples being The Incredibles and The Wire.