at least he had the honesty to come out and say it.

Health care isn't a right.

Anytime you call access to something "a right" you are entering into dangerous territory

Health care is a right.

Unless you're a fetus, of course.

So they don't believe in a right to life?

Even if you think that it is something that the government should be providing, I can't imagine anyone thinking that it is a right. The government provides any number of things that aren't rights. Roads, for one.

TheDumbBlonde: Health care isn't a right.

Then why can't a hospital refuse to treat someone who shows up at the ER with a life-threatening wound or illness?

skinnycatullus: Then why can't a hospital refuse to treat someone who shows up at the ER with a life-threatening wound or illness?

Because some state legislatures have passed statutes that made that the law.

skinnycatullus: TheDumbBlonde: Health care isn't a right.

Then why can't a hospital refuse to treat someone who shows up at the ER with a life-threatening wound or illness?

Because of lawyers.

Says a guy who's had his super-duper-primo-level health coverage paid for 100% by the taxpayers for the past 15 years. Fark you, you goddamn leech.

KaponoFor3: skinnycatullus: Then why can't a hospital refuse to treat someone who shows up at the ER with a life-threatening wound or illness?

Because some state legislatures have passed statutes that made that the law.

so republicans don't believe in states' rights?

So...you have a right to life, just not a right to maintain it, eh? What a crappy right that would be.

basemetal: skinnycatullus: Then why can't a hospital refuse to treat someone who shows up at the ER with a life-threatening wound or illness?

Because of lawyers.

Uh, no. That's utter bullshiat.

Cyberluddite: Uh, no. That's utter bullshiat.

No way, it's your fault, I heard it from some guy.

EatHam: No way, it's your fault, I heard it from some guy.

Yep, what can't we do?

FlashHarry: so republicans don't believe in states' rights?

You got all that from me stating the explanation?

Wow nice job.

KaponoFor3: FlashHarry: so republicans don't believe in states' rights?
You got all that from me stating the explanation?
Wow nice job.

Come on, dude, stop blaming the state legislatures and stop trying to shirk your responsibility here. You're a lawyer, so, as I just learned above, it's all your fault. Stop trying to pass the buck!

Cyberluddite: Come on, dude, stop blaming the state legislatures and stop trying to shirk your responsibility here.

I'm not blaming anyone -- I'm just stating that is the reason why ER's can't turn people away.

He's correct.

KaponoFor3: FlashHarry: so republicans don't believe in states' rights?

You got all that from me stating the explanation?

Wow nice job.

lighten up, francis. i was making a joke.

KaponoFor3: I'm not blaming anyone -- I'm just stating that is the reason why ER's can't turn people away.

I know, and you're obviously correct, but I was just making a joke. See the "it's because of lawyers" comment above that I was referring to.

KaponoFor3: skinnycatullus: Then why can't a hospital refuse to treat someone who shows up at the ER with a life-threatening wound or illness?

Because some state legislatures have passed statutes that made that the law.

I guess my point is that we treat it like a right. Not many people would argue that we should let a poor person die in the doorway of an ER simply because he has no way to pay.

On the other hand, plenty of people would argue that it is perfectly ok to let poor people go without preventive treatment over a long period of time just because they have no way to pay for it.

So the lesson here, kids, is that it is ok to let poor people die due to lack of medical treatment as long as it is drawn out over a long period of time.

Cyberluddite: I know, and you're obviously correct, but I was just making a joke. See the "it's because of lawyers" comment above that I was referring to.

Yeah I got that one. FlashHarry's joke went over my head and I assumed it was normal Fark liberal knee jerk reaction. Apologies.

Heath care isn't a right, correct. But here's the thing... The grim reality is millions of people cannot afford health care because either their employer does not offer it, or they cannot afford it on their own. Are we just supposed to say "tough shiat, underprivileged citizens"? A healthy society is a happy and productive society. I see nothing wrong with creating a govn't funded health care system that is affordable to the majority of people who would otherwise be up shiat's creek. Not free, though. A lot of people in this country need to stop holding their hands out, waiting for the govn't to swoop in and fix all their problems. And that's just gay.

DarthBrooks: Health care is a right.

Unless you're a fetus, of course.

Now that was a thing of beauty. Perfect, razor sharp. If you could have placed that in the number one spot, you might have derailed everything.

Factually speaking, it's 100% true that he's correct, health care isn't a universal right in the US. Argue all you want about whether that should be the case but I can't see calling him a dumbass for stating a fact.

easy to say when you have free heath care paid for by us, dickface.

DC needs an enema.

TheDumbBlonde: Health care isn't a right.

Access to health care is a right, as it access to food, shelter, and heat. However you have to pay for it just like everything else.

PoopStain:
We could, not that I'm advocating it, lower the costs of health care in this country by an alarming degree if people would just let themselves die when their time is up. Long term care is skewing the curve. Old people are rich and they don't want to let go so they'll pay anything to stay. That ruins the pricing for the young people, who don't have enough money to pay anything.

This is going to be an entertaining thread. (Yes, I noticed your disclaimer.)

/ 9 out of 10, by the way

PoopStain: We could, not that I'm advocating it, lower the costs of health care in this country by an alarming degree if people would just let themselves die when their time is up. Long term care is skewing the curve. Old people are rich and they don't want to let go so they'll pay anything to stay. That ruins the pricing for the young people, who don't have enough money to pay anything.

So, when I come to your house to kill you, you're gonna just let me, since it's "your time to die"? Somehow, I don't think that's happening.

7of7: So they don't believe in a right to life?

Even those with leprosy have right to life. Right up until their disease kills them.

Health care and health is not a right. If it were a right, smokers and drunks and meth-heads would demand that the government care for them and, they'd be right. But, it's not a right so face your consequences and suck it up. Automotive care is not a right. Housing is not a right. Lots of things are not rights.

And *LOTS* of things are not the Fed's responsibility to provide. In fact, *LOTS* of things are specifically prohibited for the Fed to provide.

You want a right to healthcare? Talk to your county board. See if they'll provide it.

skinnycatullus: TheDumbBlonde: Health care isn't a right.

Then why can't a hospital refuse to treat someone who shows up at the ER with a life-threatening wound or illness?

Access to healthcare is a right (or societal obligaion if you prefer that term) the patient still has to pay.

snuffy: easy to say when you have free heath care paid for by us, dickface.

It's paid for us the same way that everybody in the military receives free health care. I'll bet they'd disagree.

It's not free. It's earned.

KaponoFor3: skinnycatullus: Then why can't a hospital refuse to treat someone who shows up at the ER with a life-threatening wound or illness?

Because some state legislatures have passed statutes that made that the law.

Sorry there counselor, it is a Federal law, the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act.

/lawyer and RN
//this is not legal advise, if you need legal advice engage competent counsel.

feckingmorons: Access to health care is a right, as it access to food, shelter, and heat. However you have to pay for it just like everything else.

I don't believe that's true, either. Access to food, shelter, and heat?

Say we were in some type of terrible situation and you had exactly enough food, shelter, and heat for your own family.

Now, say a crowd of homeless people show up demanding access to your food, shelter, and heat.

I'm not sure that falls under 'right'.

You have a right to speak, a right to own and bear arms, a right to be treated equally under the law. I don't think a right exists for comfort or sustenance.

7of7: So they don't believe in a right to life?

You're evil. I like that.

Roman Fyseek: It's not free. It's earned.

earned my ass, it is legislated by themselves.

DC needs an enema.

feckingmorons: skinnycatullus: TheDumbBlonde: Health care isn't a right.

Then why can't a hospital refuse to treat someone who shows up at the ER with a life-threatening wound or illness?

Access to healthcare is a right (or societal obligaion if you prefer that term) the patient still has to pay.

This might be best way to term it. I don't necessarily like the word 'right' as it implies something that is more than something basic (speech, religion, gun ownership, etc), yet I am very much for having health care system available to everyone. The idea of a right, to me, is something that can't be taken away. If I stand in the middle of the forest, I have the right to denounce anyone and anything, pray to the ants below me, and so forth. How am I going to get that 'right' to health care if I'm alone and injured?

I dunno.. maybe I'm looking at this from a strange vantage.

We should do away will all government funding for health care. Start by doing away with Medicare and Medicaid.
Stop using government money for medical research.
Stop paying for the health care of politicians. They make enough money to buy private health insurance out of their own pockets.

Not one single cent of government money should be spent on anything to do with health care.

Screw the sick that can't pay to take care of their own health. Survival of the fittest (and richest).

Yeah fark em, let them die if they don't have money. That is why this is the richest nation in the world. Because we are a callous insensitive country full of selfish douchebags who are willing to let innocent people die because they can't make the deductible. So what if Europe has universal health care....they are socialists!

Roman Fyseek: feckingmorons: Access to health care is a right, as it access to food, shelter, and heat. However you have to pay for it just like everything else.

I don't believe that's true, either. Access to food, shelter, and heat?

Say we were in some type of terrible situation and you had exactly enough food, shelter, and heat for your own family.

Now, say a crowd of homeless people show up demanding access to your food, shelter, and heat.

I'm not sure that falls under 'right'.

You have a right to speak, a right to own and bear arms, a right to be treated equally under the law. I don't think a right exists for comfort or sustenance.

Perhaps I was not clear. Access to healthcare, food, heat etc is such that you cannot be turned away because you are black, or stinky, or fat, or a member of a protected class. However it is not the same as access to my healthcare, heat and food.

The doctor, the grocery store, and the gas company can't say no way fatboy, but the guy next door can tell you to get bent if you want his dermatologist appointment next Tuesday, this sandwich, or his Authentic Amish Mantle and heater.

To be even more clear, you have a right to have the same stuff available to you as everyone else until you fark it up by doing or saying something stupid.

snuffy: Roman Fyseek: It's not free. It's earned.

earned my ass, it is legislated by themselves.

DC needs an enema

Legislated by "We the People of the United States of America."

It's not legislated by themselves. If you feel they don't deserve it, vote them out just like California voted out the gay marriage thing.

Mob rule isn't always the right way. You might like to trumpet democracy but, when it comes right down to it, democracy decided that gay marriage isn't appropriate.

The legislature votes themselves raises. I agree that it's all kinds of wrong. I think that ballots should decide their raises. But, that's not the law. The law, so far, is that they vote themselves raises and perks and you gave them permission to do so.

7of7 [TotalFark] Quote 2009-03-05 07:33:27 PM
So they don't believe in a right to life?


I'm gonna piss somebody off, but oh farkin well.

If you are alive, you obviously have a right to life. If you choose to do NOTHING with that life to make it the best that it can be, don't biatch at/about majority of people that CHOOSE to work hard and work smart to have what you think is being held from you. It's not being held from you. GO GET IT.

Yeah you know that whole "life liberty and pursuit of happiness" thing?

JUST KIDDING!

Psychotropic: Screw the sick that can't pay to take care of their own health. Survival of the fittest (and richest).

you forgot luckiest.

Is this one of them there enumerated rights under the constitution or one of the one's reserved to the states?

Oh boy, here we go again.

feckingmorons: Perhaps I was not clear. Access to healthcare, food, heat etc is such that you cannot be turned away because you are black, or stinky, or fat, or a member of a protected class. However it is not the same as access to my healthcare, heat and food.

The doctor, the grocery store, and the gas company can't say no way fatboy, but the guy next door can tell you to get bent if you want his dermatologist appointment next Tuesday, this sandwich, or his Authentic Amish Mantle and heater.

To be even more clear, you have a right to have the same stuff available to you as everyone else until you fark it up by doing or saying something stupid.

Perfect. I'm now on board with you.

feckingmorons: KaponoFor3: skinnycatullus: Then why can't a hospital refuse to treat someone who shows up at the ER with a life-threatening wound or illness?

Because some state legislatures have passed statutes that made that the law.

Sorry there counselor, it is a Federal law, the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act.

it's also a federal law that protects our right to free speech. hmm.

feckingmorons: Access to healthcare is a right (or societal obligaion if you prefer that term) the patient still has to pay.

and that is only an arbitrary consequence of the system in place.

SilentStrider: Yeah you know that whole "life liberty and pursuit of happiness" thing?

That's not a right. That's the declaration of independence or something.