Wait, they are looking into Palin's personal life now too?


/i kid, i kid

I am in favor of any research that protects or enhances my bacon supply.

Another example of a pork-filled earmark.

Pigs stink. That'll be 1.7 million please.

well, it will create jobs and cut down on pig stink. what's not to love?

FlashHarry: well, it will create jobs and cut down on pig stink. what's not to love?

I don't know about the whole "creates jobs"... maybe "job".

FlashHarry: well, it will create jobs

Oregon and New Jersey are creating jobs by prohibiting people from pumping their own gas too.

Creating jobs is not an end in and of itself. It's best if the jobs are contributing something in order to justify their existence.

gustakooka: I don't know about the whole "creates jobs"... maybe "job".

It'll take at least a few people to work out the problem. That's just to get it worked out, to come up with some solution, could be a few more people.

Juansmith: It's best if the jobs are contributing something in order to justify their existence.

Contributing to the general well being of people is as good as it gets, and that's what we have here.

WhyteRaven74: Juansmith: It's best if the jobs are contributing something in order to justify their existence.

Contributing to the general well being of people is as good as it gets, and that's what we have here.

If you're referring to the pig stank jobs, I suppose that case could be made. If you were referring to the gas-pumping jobs, I'll have a few more words to say.

Juansmith: FlashHarry: well, it will create jobs

Oregon and New Jersey are creating jobs by prohibiting people from pumping their own gas too.

Creating jobs is not an end in and of itself. It's best if the jobs are contributing something in order to justify their existence.

maybe you missed the part where i said "and cut down on pig stink." oh, look what you did - you cut off that part in my quote. how conveeeenient for your little strawman.

Juansmith: referring to the pig stank jobs

this is what I was referring to

/never have understood a place that would forbid people from pumping their own gas

FlashHarry: maybe you missed the part where i said "and cut down on pig stink." oh, look what you did - you cut off that part in my quote. how conveeeenient for your little strawman.

I did not intend it as a strawman; I would argue that reducing pig stink on a pig farm in a rural area is perhaps not the best use of our money.

Given this perspective, "creating jobs to reduce pig stink" is precisely "creating jobs just for the sake of it".

You're welcome to disagree with me, but I certainly didn't mean to misstate your position on the issue.

Juansmith: FlashHarry: maybe you missed the part where i said "and cut down on pig stink." oh, look what you did - you cut off that part in my quote. how conveeeenient for your little strawman.

I did not intend it as a strawman; I would argue that reducing pig stink on a pig farm in a rural area is perhaps not the best use of our money.

Given this perspective, "creating jobs to reduce pig stink" is precisely "creating jobs just for the sake of it".

You're welcome to disagree with me, but I certainly didn't mean to misstate your position on the issue.

fair enough.

but as anyone who has driven by a hog lot can tell you, "reducing pig stink" is a noble cause. whether in iowa or north carolina. it all depends where you are.

WhyteRaven74: Juansmith: referring to the pig stank jobs

this is what I was referring to

/never have understood a place that would forbid people from pumping their own gas

It makes a kind of sense, I'd say. I would call it a luxury service. A few other examples:
-Bagging groceries (in Europe and elsewhere, it is common practice for you to bag your own groceries, rather than for the checker to do it for you)
-Clearing tables in food courts and fast food places (conversely, in Europe, it is common practice for an employee to clear trays and garbage from tables, whereas it would generally be the individual's "job" in the US)

Of course, gas-pumping differs from the other two jobs in one key manner - businesses are free to set their own policies and practices regarding which of those services they will provide, whereas the gas-pumping is statutorily forbidden.

Providing a gas-pumping service, I can understand, but requiring it... I'm definitely in agreement with you there.

FlashHarry: fair enough.

but as anyone who has driven by a hog lot can tell you, "reducing pig stink" is a noble cause. whether in iowa or north carolina. it all depends where you are.

I've definitely experienced it, but I guess I have to argue the logistics. Pig poo is pig poo, and it's going to make a stink no matter what. It is certainly possible to reduce the smell, whether through more exhaustive sanitation practices, or by hermetically sealing the pigs in a climate-controlled bubble...

I just wonder what the research could possibly come up with. Some kind of industrial-strength Febreeze? Bacteria that rapidly break down pig waste? *shrug*

It's all plausible, I suppose, but sounds expensive...

Juansmith:

Given this perspective, "creating jobs to reduce pig stink" is precisely "creating jobs just for the sake of it".

You're welcome to disagree with me, but I certainly didn't mean to misstate your position on the issue.

from the article:

Hog odors have been a perennial issue at the state Legislature, where lawmakers argue over the need to protect quality of life without ruining Iowa's $12-billion-a-year pork industry.

so, that's - what - .00041% of the bill spent to clean up a $12bn industry? i'd hardly say that was "creating jobs just for the sake of it."

FlashHarry: so, that's - what - .00041% of the bill spent to clean up a $12bn industry? i'd hardly say that was "creating jobs just for the sake of it."

That's a solid point, although I would say the point of the "$12 billion industry" line was to say, "It's profitable, so it's not going anywhere."

The pig stink is a negative externality of a booming industry. I would say we should handle it like any other air pollution - sanction the hog producers, and make them figure out a way to reduce the stink (and bear the cost of doing so).

Juansmith:

It's all plausible, I suppose, but sounds expensive...

the bacteria thing is a good idea, actually. and i'll bet they'll work on it. but let's say they figure a way to do just that - take the stink out of hog shiat. let's say they develop a proprietary method and market it to hog producers around the globe. then you've got yourself a bona fide american product that can go on creating jobs while reducing pollution.

all i'm saying is, it's easy for grandstanding politicians to rail at what they deem "pork" (gov. jindal making fun of volcano monitoring was one particularly embarrassing example coming from a governor of a state ravaged by a natural disaster) but when you dig down into these things, sometimes they actually serve a purpose.

and i know that's the new rush talking point: "earmarks!" "socialism!" "pork!" - but not all earmarks are pork.

Given that the reality of our current food industry encourages massive corporate concentration of livestock and results in freaking lagoons of - no make that seas of effluent, which make the surrounding area completely unlivable - it sounds reasonable.

FlashHarry: (gov. jindal making fun of volcano monitoring was one particularly embarrassing example coming from a governor of a state ravaged by a natural disaster)

Well that was just stupid of him. I think even the most staunch fiscal conservatives would agree that protecting against natural disasters is in our national interest.

the bacteria thing is a good idea, actually.

Maybe. I kinda pulled that one out of my ass, and as far as my basic knowledge of biology goes, adding bacteria to something will break it down, but it will also create more waste and make it stink more.

These would have to be some kind of beefy mutant bacteria. Not sure such a thing exists.

I actually like the industrial Febreeze idea better (also from my ass). You get a chemical of some kind (like that blue stuff you'd find in port-a-johns) that can bond to the odor-producing particles in the hog shiat, it'll hopefully reduce the smell. Of course, you'd have to balance that against dumping whatever chemical they can come up into the ground. I'm not sure what the current procedure is for handling hog crap (or indeed, if it's repurposed as fertilizer, which would be another issue when it comes to reducing the stench by destroying it somehow).

I have a pig that was born without a nose.

How does it smell?

Terrible.

That's just the way Iowa smells. Why destroy its mystery by researching it?

Scientists have to eat too, and you know, most science tends to lead to inventions down the road

/Pig stank research, probably will lead to cosmetics
//That's just how things work

all this pig talk and no bacon?

FlashHarry: Juansmith: FlashHarry: well, it will create jobs

Oregon and New Jersey are creating jobs by prohibiting people from pumping their own gas too.

Creating jobs is not an end in and of itself. It's best if the jobs are contributing something in order to justify their existence.

maybe you missed the part where i said "and cut down on pig stink." oh, look what you did - you cut off that part in my quote. how conveeeenient for your little strawman.

I got news for you - pigs smell. Meat producers are a very low margin business and sometimes they actually lose money.

If you live next to a feedlot, you're gonna smell animal waste. Get over it.

Juansmith:
Oregon and New Jersey are creating jobs by prohibiting people from pumping their own gas too.


In New Jersey this isn't new. Last time I was there, in the summer of 2001, this was the case. Don't know about Oregon.

If this 1.7 million can stop the pig stink that is the best spent money in a long time. It would be even better if they could find a way to actually get rid of all the crap without sprinkling it all over the surrounding acres or creating a pig poop lake. At the levels it accumulates when farming it is a health risk to the surrounding areas and an environmental disaster.

so what?

Am I supposed to be outraged over earmarks, something that politicians have been doing for decades?

WHO IS KING OF BARTERTOWN!

JC

States that prohibit self-serve gas usually do so due to certain insurance laws in place.

Juansmith: That's a solid point, although I would say the point of the "$12 billion industry" line was to say, "It's profitable, so it's not going anywhere."

Revenue != Profit, but of course the industry isn't going anywhere.

Juansmith: The pig stink is a negative externality of a booming industry.

Sorry - missed this part in my Weeners.

"Booming industry"? Smithfield is closing 6 pork plants.

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2009/02/16/daily21.html

If a $1.7 million investment results in technology that can reduce/eliminate the odor around pig farms, it will raise local property values, and the increase in property taxes will quickly pay off the initial investment.

THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE, CONS.

You ever lived downwind of pigs? This research is worth it.

SeismicJizzer: so what?

Am I supposed to be outraged over earmarks, something that politicians have been doing for decades?

people are pissed because obama specifically said no earmarks.
he lied, just like he lied about everything else.

B...b..but that's the "smell of money"

Seriously they should just hand out clothespins at the border.

I am all for this if it can cut that stank down in rural areas

who knows, its the methane that smells, and they might manage to find a solution that is profitable AND reduces methane emissions. I always thought strapping a bag to their ass and letting it fill with methane and then using that for fuel would be a good idea.

/also, I'm drunk, sorry.

Hick: SeismicJizzer: so what?

Am I supposed to be outraged over earmarks, something that politicians have been doing for decades?

people are pissed because obama specifically said no earmarks.
he lied, just like he lied about everything else.

This isn't Obama's earmarks, this was from the leftover budget from last year, but continue to blame this on Obama, that will win you elections.

/rolls eyes

It better not affect the smell of frying bacon.

I_Approve_Of_This_Message: If a $1.7 million investment results in technology that can reduce/eliminate the odor around pig farms, it will raise local property values, and the increase in property taxes will quickly pay off the initial investment.

What time frame are we talking here? Most pig farms aren't exactly near high-density population centers of high desireability. This isn't some situation where some developer is chomping at the bit saying "my lord, if only there weren't pig farms, I'd be building the next suburb RIGHT EFFING HERE!" If it was really a desireable spot, the government would have just used emminent domain to toss the farmers on their ass and build their schools, strip malls, and Wal-Mart there long ago using the 'tax money' as justification.

No, no, this isn't some much-needed project that's going to fix our nation. It's a wasteful pet project aimed at getting some congressmen re-elected because he 'loves the farmers'.

Hick: SeismicJizzer: so what?

Am I supposed to be outraged over earmarks, something that politicians have been doing for decades?

people are pissed because obama specifically said no earmarks.
he lied, just like he lied about everything else.

I REALLY want to agree with you, but does Obama have enough control over the house and senate to prevent any earmarking?

By going by Obama's description of the bill, I expected solar panels and wind farms powering every state, hiring of scientists and engineers across the board at an all time high, and cheap broadband for everyone, along with some road improvements between cities, MAYBE a train or two for really popular routes, and perhaps some improvements to city transit. It all sounded great.

I voted for the guy. I still believe the new deal had some excellent parts to it that have more than paid themselves back and then some, and I still have hopes for this package to ultimately be a good thing, but it really does seem far from what it was originally described as.

I do like that teh second half of tarp funds is going to banks through the middle man of the borrower though. A clear improvement over Bush's tarp plan, though hindsight is truly 20/20.

came for the shills, leaving satisfied.

SeismicJizzer: Hick: SeismicJizzer: so what?

Am I supposed to be outraged over earmarks, something that politicians have been doing for decades?

people are pissed because obama specifically said no earmarks.
he lied, just like he lied about everything else.

This isn't Obama's earmarks, this was from the leftover budget from last year, but continue to blame this on Obama, that will win you elections.

/rolls eyes

There is no left over budget, there is no money !
Take them out, what is so hard about that?

Hick:


Apt.

Shaggy_C: Most pig farms aren't exactly near high-density population centers of high desireability.

High density? No. My grandpa bought a slice of land romeo before I was born. its been a good investment overall, and he built a home on it when he and my grandma were ready to retire. She got parkinsons a year later (thank god we made them design the house with the master bedroom on the main floor) and they helped my aunt and uncle buy a home nearby. Its like 10 acres or so. They used to farm it before they built the house, but he's too old to keep the farming going now.

Well, about 4 years ago, the guy 5 houses down started farming pigs. If you haven't seen feeder pigs, they are basically as big as farking cows. And everytime the wind blows just right, it stinks like shiat. If it stunk like shiat more often, then you would get used to it and no worries. But nope, its about once an hour. It will smell right through the walls. People in the area banded together (a lot of both well to do and long-time owners who planned ahead like my gramps own property on that road for the same reason) tried to stop the guy from farming pigs, but they failed.

If you were buying a house and the seller lied about the smell when you asked him specifically while looking at the home, you'd sue. If he told the truth, you'd buy another mile down the road at least, and more likely now that you understood how bad pig stink is, you'd check into an area where it wasn't legal to farm livestock.

Is the area the most popular ever? No, but its been growing pretty strong. There is, in this nation, a constant movement of people who want to be an hour away from somewhere worth working at but far enough out for the glory (and it is glory) of owning more than a house and a backyard.

I_Approve_Of_This_Message: If a $1.7 million investment results in technology that can reduce/eliminate the odor around pig farms, it will raise local property values, and the increase in property taxes will quickly pay off the initial investment.

THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE, CONS.

Were the pigs there first and the sub-divisions came later ? Don't buy in a sub-division in farming country.

Niman Ranch fixed this problem years ago by giving pigs a big shared space with regularly refreshed fermented hay bedding to simulate forest litter. The smell is a problem specifically because the industrialized farming techniques that put large numbers of pigs in tiny mesh floored cages result in serious disfunction in the environments in which the pigs are raised and the production process. In the case of Niman Ranch the bedding can be used to produce high quality compost, so great pools of stored waste are never produced.

Juansmith: FlashHarry: so, that's - what - .00041% of the bill spent to clean up a $12bn industry? i'd hardly say that was "creating jobs just for the sake of it."

That's a solid point, although I would say the point of the "$12 billion industry" line was to say, "It's profitable, so it's not going anywhere."

The pig stink is a negative externality of a booming industry. I would say we should handle it like any other air pollution - sanction the hog producers, and make them figure out a way to reduce the stink (and bear the cost of doing so).

All industries get government incentive to improve pollution. Plus, since these will be scientists, usually both at the university level and at the industrial level many people benefit, this will probably create at least a dozen jobs with an average salary of $50,000, with an additional budget of a million dollars to be spent on goods manufactured and purchased in the USA. This includes pigs and feed, and also high quality scientific instruments. If this brings a workable solution, more companies will invest in pig odor fixes, creating more jobs. The same is true for most, if not all of hard science research in the US.

This is how trickle down economy works. It is really trickle up. The employees invest in the town by taking their wages and spending it in the town. Assuming every job is held by someone in a family of 3, and is making $50k...

$1200 rent (~1/4)landlord in area
$400 car payment
$200 utilities
$800 groceries
=
~$1500/mo on other bills, spending and saving all impacting the community

Just another example of the Democrats' fascination with Rush Limbaugh.

atlanta_ufo: I_Approve_Of_This_Message: If a $1.7 million investment results in technology that can reduce/eliminate the odor around pig farms, it will raise local property values, and the increase in property taxes will quickly pay off the initial investment.

THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE, CONS.

Were the pigs there first and the sub-divisions came later ? Don't buy in a sub-division in farming country.

Like other people have said, if you are a long time owner and a newer pig farm starts it can be a problem. It also is a problem if there is no legislation saying how much odor a pig farm can have, if it's a lot the odor can carry and disrupt, slightly more populated areas.