Incredible. Yet calling it Eden is a big stretch.

"No one is sure, but this may be the earliest evidence for human sacrifice: one of the most inexplicable of human behaviours and one that could have evolved only in the face of terrible societal stress. "

Yep, sounds like Eden to me.

FTFC: Although a very important archaeological discovery, claiming it to be the mythical Garden of Eden is as likely as it being Supermans Fortress of Solitude.

heh...

I'm not sure how this archaeology ties the Garden of Eden somehow. Seems like a fairly big leap in logic. Though this is Religion we're talking about, so...

Bull. shiat.

FeedTheCollapse: I'm not sure how this archaeology ties the Garden of Eden somehow.

Yeah, seems like a pretty huge leap. Is it because it's old? Is that the only criteria they have? I have a 2 cent piece from 1898, therefore I suppose it must have once belonged to President Millard Filmore.

No one knows why Gobekli was buried. Maybe it was interred as a kind of penance: a sacrifice to the angry gods, who had cast the hunters out of paradise. Perhaps it was for shame at the violence and bloodshed that the stone-worship had helped provoke.

My theory is that it was an ancient nuclear waste disposal site, and the inscriptions are warning us not to dig there.

/stupid ancestors.

FTA:
"There were herds of game, rivers of fish, and flocks of wildfowl; lush green meadows were ringed by woods and wild orchards. About 10,000 years ago, the Kurdish desert was a 'paradisiacal place', as Schmidt puts it. So what destroyed the environment? The answer is Man. "

Going north out of Athens Greece, the terrain strongly resembles the (California? desert) hillsides shown during the intro of MASH. It didn't used to be that way. Human habitation destroyed the original. I believe that this is common to the eastern parts of the Mediterranean.

Somewhere near Ephesus, we were standing on a line of some very large cut stones. Someone pointed at the ocean in the distance (about a mile and a quarter, maybe more) and said that we were standing on the original pier. The dirt between was what had filled up from runoff due to improper land management.

Eden or not, I love old sites like this. Eastern Turkey is filled with wondrous things.

Well, I'm convinced.

nekom: Yeah, seems like a pretty huge leap. Is it because it's old? Is that the only criteria they have? I have a 2 cent piece from 1898, therefore I suppose it must have once belonged to President Millard Filmore.

FTFA:

In the Book of Genesis, it is indicated that Eden is west of Assyria. Sure enough, this is where Gobekli is sited.
Likewise, biblical Eden is by four rivers, including the Tigris and Euphrates. And Gobekli lies between both of these.
In ancient Assyrian texts, there is mention of a 'Beth Eden' - a house of Eden. This minor kingdom was 50 miles from Gobekli Tepe.
Another book in the Old Testament talks of 'the children of Eden which were in Thelasar', a town in northern Syria, near Gobekli.
The very word 'Eden' comes from the Sumerian for 'plain'; Gobekli lies on the plains of Harran.
Thus, when you put it all together, the evidence is persuasive. Gobekli Tepe is, indeed, a 'temple in Eden', built by our leisured and fortunate ancestors - people who had time to cultivate art, architecture and complex ritual, before the traumas of agriculture ruined their lifestyle, and devastated their paradise.
It's a stunning and seductive idea. Yet it has a sinister epilogue. Because the loss of paradise seems to have had a strange and darkening effect on the human mind.

Perhaps a stretch. But not without at least being worthy of consideration. It sounds like a freakin amazing place, either way.

I remember learning that the Garden of Eden was probably in Baghdad (cradle of civilization and all that stuff). Of course that was before we came in and upgraded the place.

Do a control f for

The shepherd who discovered Gobekli Tepe

I'd love to buy that guy some coffee, along with an interpreter. He looks like fun. Also looks like he's about 4'9", bet he'd think I was an Amazon.

A few years ago, archaeologists at nearby Cayonu unearthed a hoard of human skulls. They were found under an altar-like slab, stained with human blood.

No one is sure, but this may be the earliest evidence for human sacrifice: one of the most inexplicable of human behaviours and one that could have evolved only in the face of terrible societal stress.

Maybe the victims were hunter/gatherers that weren't getting with the program and trampling crops. Similar to the standoffs between cattle drivers and farmers. Barbed wire fencing is a powerful symbol.

Long ago, the site was deliberately and systematically buried in a feat of labour every bit as remarkable as the stone carvings.

More clues to fill in the puzzle. This stuff is cool.

No one knows why Gobekli was buried. Maybe it was interred as a kind of penance: a sacrifice to the angry gods, who had cast the hunters out of paradise. Perhaps it was for shame at the violence and bloodshed that the stone-worship had helped provoke.

No reason to get excited
The thief he kindly spoke
There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke
But you and I, we've been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now
The hour is getting late

In 1994. Nice timely reporting there, Daily Fail.

damageddude: Garden of Eden was probably in Baghdad

The Tigris and Euphrates are there as well. I'm positive there are towns and villages scattered ALL over the region where the locals will tell you, it was here. Grandma told me so.

In the pic with this caption -

Archaeologist Klaus Schmidt poses next to some of the carvings at Gebekli

I can easily identify the wild boar and whatever is underneath it. What about the stuff above, that's cut off in the photograph? Could that be a reclining Venus of Willendorf figure? feet to the right, butt to the middle? do you see what I mean?

While a deeply overwrought piece I think the guy is trying to say not so much that the bible story is literally true but that a racial memory of this place may have inspired the story in much the same way the black sea flood may be the historical basis of the Flood Legend. The linguistic evidence is pretty interesting as well.

Of course Genesis' placement of Eden is basically downtown Baghdad:

l.
10 Now a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden; and from there it divided and became four rivers. 11 The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 The gold of that land is good; the bdellium and the onyx stone are there. 13 The name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole land of Cush. 14 The name of the third river is Tigris; it flows east of Assyria. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

FTFA: Carbon-dating shows that the complex is at least 12,000 years old, maybe even 13,000 years old.

So is the YEC crowd wrong about carbon dating being unreliable, or wrong about the age of the earth? Science is a biatch isn't it?

Still, it is an extremely fascinating piece of land.

Two Dogs Farking: In 1994. Nice timely reporting there, Daily Fail.

They had to dig it out.

This article has a little bit more info and pics (new window)

If you control f down to

"In my opinion, the people who carved them

the pic looks like a golem.

Oh piss. Then it's got this:
"Look at this", he says, pointing at a photo of an exquisitely carved sculpture showing an animal, half-human, half-lion. "It's a sphinx, thousands of years before Egypt. Southeastern Turkey, northern Syria - this region saw the wedding night of our civilization."
with NO pic! (unless I scrolled past it)

Clearly. It's the only possible explanation.

No flaming sword at the entrance? No garden of Eden.

The site has been described as 'extraordinary' and 'the most important' site in the world

Well, as long as it's been described that way it must be true.

/my planet has been described as 'flat'

Paging Bevets, red courtesy phone... Bevets, red courtesy phone...

The Bible says regarding the location of Eden:

"And a river went out of Eden, to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads."
-Genesis 2:10

Two of these rivers are called Hiddekel and Perath . (See: Genesis 2:10-14)

This is why many Christians have assumed that the original garden was located somewhere in the Mesopotamian region (around present day Iraq) where the modern Tigris and Euphrates rivers flow.

However, the Bible records a devastating worldwide Flood, many centuries after Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden. Sedimentary layers sometimes miles thick, bear mute testimony to this massive watery upheaval which tore apart and buried forever the pre-Flood world.

After the Flood, the survivors (Noah's family) moved to the plain of Shinar (Sumeria/Babylonia) which is where we find rivers today called Tigris and Euphrates. These are therefore clearly not the same rivers. They run on top of Flood-deposited layers of rock containing billions of dead things (killed by the Flood). These rivers were probably named after the original pre-Flood rivers, just as settlers from the British Isles to America and Australasia applied familiar names to many places in their "new world."

Note also, that the Bible speaks of one river breaking into four. This is not what is found in the Middle East today.
The Garden was destroyed by the Flood. Its actual location on the globe can never be established.

Link (new window)

The Daily Mail attempting a serious article?

I call BS.

Here is why he came up with the theory (FTA):

"The Genesis Secret by Tom Knox is published by Harper Collins on March 9, priced £6.99. To order a copy (P&P free), call 0845...."

I moved from Paradise, PA to Eden, VT, so I'm digging the comments.

NathanielTaggart:
Here is why he came up with the theory (FTA):

"The Genesis Secret by Tom Knox is published by Harper Collins on March 9, priced £6.99. To order a copy (P&P free), call 0845...."

"I want all imformation regarding this 'Genesis Secret'."

CDP: The Bible says regarding the location of Eden:

"And a river went out of Eden, to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads."
-Genesis 2:10

Two of these rivers are called Hiddekel and Perath . (See: Genesis 2:10-14)

This is why many Christians have assumed that the original garden was located somewhere in the Mesopotamian region (around present day Iraq) where the modern Tigris and Euphrates rivers flow.

However, the Bible records a devastating worldwide Flood, many centuries after Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden. Sedimentary layers sometimes miles thick, bear mute testimony to this massive watery upheaval which tore apart and buried forever the pre-Flood world.

After the Flood, the survivors (Noah's family) moved to the plain of Shinar (Sumeria/Babylonia) which is where we find rivers today called Tigris and Euphrates. These are therefore clearly not the same rivers. They run on top of Flood-deposited layers of rock containing billions of dead things (killed by the Flood). These rivers were probably named after the original pre-Flood rivers, just as settlers from the British Isles to America and Australasia applied familiar names to many places in their "new world."

Note also, that the Bible speaks of one river breaking into four. This is not what is found in the Middle East today.
The Garden was destroyed by the Flood. Its actual location on the globe can never be established.

Link (new window)

I'm on to you.

They found a GECK?

/goes to RTFA

whatever. Betheden makes for a damned good D&D name. I'm stealing it.

"or 'information', whichever applies..."

CDP: The Bible says regarding the location of Eden:

"And a river went out of Eden, to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads."
-Genesis 2:10

Two of these rivers are called Hiddekel and Perath . (See: Genesis 2:10-14)

This is why many Christians have assumed that the original garden was located somewhere in the Mesopotamian region (around present day Iraq) where the modern Tigris and Euphrates rivers flow.

However, the Bible records a devastating worldwide Flood, many centuries after Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden. Sedimentary layers sometimes miles thick, bear mute testimony to this massive watery upheaval which tore apart and buried forever the pre-Flood world.

After the Flood, the survivors (Noah's family) moved to the plain of Shinar (Sumeria/Babylonia) which is where we find rivers today called Tigris and Euphrates. These are therefore clearly not the same rivers. They run on top of Flood-deposited layers of rock containing billions of dead things (killed by the Flood). These rivers were probably named after the original pre-Flood rivers, just as settlers from the British Isles to America and Australasia applied familiar names to many places in their "new world."

Note also, that the Bible speaks of one river breaking into four. This is not what is found in the Middle East today.
The Garden was destroyed by the Flood. Its actual location on the globe can never be established.

Link (new window)

lol wut.

was the dopest news written... in 94

FTFA: How did cavemen build something so ambitious?

They didn't. You screwed up the carbon dating.

FTFA:This begs the question, why adopt farming at all

Come on, people, you're supposed to jump on this kind of thing

This theory makes logical sense. Too bad I can't say the same about the religious myth of the Garden.

Everyone knows Charles Darwin just put those ruins there to tempt us.

Its_A_Tarp: The Daily Mail attempting a serious article?

I call BS.

This is what I want to know.
I don't do a lot of cruising around other sites, so all I want to know is are those things REALLY that old or is this some kind of weird "fake" piece.

Did they did up a body with no belly button?

Did they found the place where snake practiced crawling in hiss belly? What about grass and girls?

damageddude: I remember learning that the Garden of Eden was probably in Baghdad (cradle of civilization and all that stuff). Of course that was before we came in and upgraded the place.

I actually seem to recall there are 4 rivers specifically mentioned, and two are the Tigris and Euphrates. The other two are unknown but I did see one documentary where satellite technology identified two now dead rivers that, if sea levels were lower, would have intersected with the Tigris and Euphrates in what is now the Persian Gulf.

phlegmmo:
"I want all imformation regarding this 'Genesis Secret'."

+1

As far as biblical books go, Genesis is teh suck. The Earth is more than 6,000 years old which makes it bunk even if there wasn't the whole evolution thing.

Revelations on the other hand, reads more like today's newspaper than a 2,000 year old prophecy.

Leave it to the Daily Fail to take a really interesting bit of archaeology and piss all over it.

In other news this site was discovered in 1964. It really is very interesting. But I think it has more to do with Jason and the Argonauts than it does with Adam and Eve.

Another theory is that it is the remains of the house where Little Red Riding Hood's grandmother lived.

LewDux: Did they found the place where snake practiced crawling in hiss belly? What about grass and girls?

what is this i dont even

I'll bet the garden, if it existed in reality at all, is where the Mediterranean is now, before the Gibraltar strait opened up and let the Atlantic in.

There was a distant past 25 or so thousand years ago, where the Mediterranean was a large basin with two salt lakes in its deepest parts. Also, the area had a pleasantly moist environment, so it's not unreasonable to think the areas around those lakes had rivers and forests, probably a lush environment with all sorts of pre-glacial game.

Or maybe it was in the Sahara 12 thousand years ago. During the last ice age it was lush and green as well. With many subspecies of african animals now extinct with the climate change. It's so different, all that's left are some acacia groves barely surviving in the mountains.

But it's not in Turkey or Syria or Iraq, or the Caucasus, or anywhere we can point to on a map since it's mostly legend with unverifiable details. It may well have existed, but after so many millenia, there's no way to retrace its location.

The fellow is making claims to generate publicity and maybe some cash from the Creation Science bunch, who like to throw some bucks to anyone they think might be manipulated into validating some minor issue of theirs.

Why haven't they figured out that the Garden of Eden is the earth before man took hold of "knowledge"? Don't they know the Bible is mostly metaphor?

Well I don't know about the Eden part, but it looks like we unearthed the world's first glory hole: