Basically anyone NOT on some sort of government giveaway program. The new slavery, be beholding to your government.

This shiat ain't gonna fly for very long....lol. When businesses and employers dry up, I shore wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

Hedge funds will have to pay over the 15% capital gains tax? Oh, the horror. THE HORROR!!!!

So, who here has the economic advisers that Obama does? Anyone have a degree in economics, or even business?

Anyone? Bueller?

Anyone remember the national debt? You know, the one for trillions of dollars he inherited? If that is not addressed, then no-one buys our securities.

If no-one buys our securities, we go down like Paris Hilton on a tequila bender.

But don't let that stop you from mouthing off about stuff you know nothing about.

The word is "beholden."

And, Obama is trying to dig us out of the disaster that 8 years of failed and criminal Republican policies have gotten us into. I say try whatever, it can't possibly be worse than what we have.

Because Obama is so envious of their success? Oh, wait, they failed completely and crippled the economy.
What did large corporations do with the reduced tax rates and increased income? Bought back their own stock (non-productive use of capital) to raise the stock price to increase their stock-priced based bonuses.
Investors? Turned a blind eye to the above.
Private Equity? You mean Chrysler?

From Mr. Kudlow's bio:

For many years Mr. Kudlow served as chief economist for a number of Wall Street firms. He was a member of the Bush-Cheney Transition Advisory Committee. During President Reagan's first term, Mr. Kudlow was the associate director for economics and planning, Office of Management and Budget, Executive Office of the President, where he was engaged in the development of the administration's economic and budget policy.

He should STFU already.

simplicimus: Because Obama is so envious of their success? Oh, wait, they failed completely and crippled the economy.
What did large corporations do with the reduced tax rates and increased income? Bought back their own stock (non-productive use of capital) to raise the stock price to increase their stock-priced based bonuses.
Investors? Turned a blind eye to the above.
Private Equity? You mean Chrysler?

yeah, we already know that much of wall street is anti-capitalist. Ironic as that might sound, it's certainly true enough to prove that most big corporations despise real competition and have fought tooth and claw to avoid establishing a level playing field.

And that's our problem - if you've got the money and influence, you can (and do) abuse government contacts to shut down competition and redesign the marketplace to suit YOUR needs and not what the market wants. wall street is reaping the rewards of all their manipulations and they don't like it one bit.

Whamdangler: And, Obama is trying to dig us out of the disaster that 8 years of failed and criminal Republican policies have gotten us into.

Massive government growth and deficit spending different how?

At least he's got a more defined target than the "war on terror" or "war on drugs". I expect the "war on investors, entrepreneurs, small businesses, large corporations, and private equity and venture capital funds" to go quite well!

Dancin_In_Anson: Whamdangler: And, Obama is trying to dig us out of the disaster that 8 years of failed and criminal Republican policies have gotten us into.

Massive government growth and deficit spending different how?

How is deficit formed?

Tor_Eckman: Dancin_In_Anson: Whamdangler: And, Obama is trying to dig us out of the disaster that 8 years of failed and criminal Republican policies have gotten us into.

Massive government growth and deficit spending different how?

How is deficit formed?

Ummm..I dunno..spending money you don't have?

incendi: At least he's got a more defined target than the "war on terror" or "war on drugs". I expect the "war on investors, entrepreneurs, small businesses, large corporations, and private equity and venture capital funds" to go quite well!

It's not much of a war when the enemy has already been defeated before it starts.

Tor_Eckman: How is deficit formed?

Spending more than you have.

What do I win?

GaryPDX: Tor_Eckman: Dancin_In_Anson: Whamdangler: And, Obama is trying to dig us out of the disaster that 8 years of failed and criminal Republican policies have gotten us into.

Massive government growth and deficit spending different how?

How is deficit formed?

Ummm..I dunno..spending money you don't have?

They need to do way instain govt> who kill thier surpluses

Let me explain how this works. With higher cap. gains taxes, it costs more for a business owner to squeeze more profit out of their business. This means it's cheaper for them to re-invest that money back into their business, which creates jobs and stimulates economic growth. So, instead of buying a yacht, they buy equipment and services to grow their business and create jobs, instead of buying a Ferrari. That creates jobs *here*, not in Italy.

As the economic mess we are in is very severe, I don't see any option other than increased government spending to keep more businesses from collapsing, state governments functioning, and more people employed.

Does anyone here have any better ideas except tax cuts for the wealthy?

AirForceVet: Does anyone here have any better ideas except tax cuts for the wealthy?

Oh sure, rule out the only idea that could possibly work. Now I may as well just retire and abandon my business instead of selling it or even burning it down for the insurance money.

AirForceVet: Does anyone here have any better ideas except tax cuts for the wealthy?

OHOHOHOHOHOHOHOH PICKMEPICKMEPICKMEPICKMEPICKME!

AirForceVet: Does anyone here have any better ideas except tax cuts for the wealthy?

you could rewrite the copyright laws to spur economic development and competition rather than creating stagnation and oppression. rework patents so that the creator holds them for 10 years, then they're all public domain. All of them. No exceptions. Then change the law so that CEO and corporate officer contracts have to be approved by shareholders holding voting shares and not just the board of directors anymore. start enforcing the SEC regs already on the books, keep throwing crooked scam artists into general population in attica. etc, etc...

Rain-Monkey: So, who here has the economic advisers that Obama does? Anyone have a degree in economics, or even business?

Me, and I think this is a good idea.

They declared war on us first.

AirForceVet: Does anyone here have any better ideas except tax cuts for the wealthy?

The Republicans don't. Apparently tax cuts work in times of prosper and failure.

Ronald Reagan has passed away, and gone as well are the exact economic circumstances surrounding the 1970s-1990s. I would propose that doing the exact things that were done during the Reagan administration would likely produce entirely different results today.

Seems entirely logical to me.

Lundah: So, instead of buying a yacht, they buy equipment and services to grow their business and create jobs

The guys that used to build yachts in the US probably wouldn't agree with you. I say used to because the last time someone tried to fark the rich via that tax code (see Tax, Luxury) the rich quit buying them and more than one builder went under.

How quickly we forget.

/still doing the Horshack for AFV

Dancin_In_Anson: Lundah: So, instead of buying a yacht, they buy equipment and services to grow their business and create jobs

The guys that used to build yachts in the US probably wouldn't agree with you. I say used to because the last time someone tried to fark the rich via that tax code (see Tax, Luxury) the rich quit buying them and more than one builder went under.

How quickly we forget.

/still doing the Horshack for AFV

{citation needed}

I find it dubious that someone who had enough money to buy a yacht would balk at a relatively small amount of extra tax they had to pay on it. In fact, there is evidence that the extra cost actually increases demand on such goods. See Veblan good

Can you cite any examples of just one company that went out of business due to a VAT or luxury tax?

The GOP argument might actually hold water if in the 1990's, when we had such "oppressively high" tax rates, the investment and VC communities were stifled by the tax code. But that's not what happened.

Tor_Eckman: {citation needed}

If you would like more, a simple Google of 'luxury tax yachts' turns up juuuuust a few articles regarding it. Would you like for me to give you a few more articles or would you like to look for yourself?

Dancin_In_Anson: Tor_Eckman: {citation needed}

If you would like more, a simple Google of 'luxury tax yachts' turns up juuuuust a few articles regarding it. Would you like for me to give you a few more articles or would you like to look for yourself?

You seem to have a knack for finding pointless support for pointless arguments, so go ahead and find a few more, if you wouldn't mind.

Tor_Eckman: I find it dubious that someone who had enough money to buy a yacht would balk at a relatively small amount of extra tax they had to pay on it. In fact, there is evidence that the extra cost actually increases demand on such goods. See Veblan good

Nope. I knew a guy who had a yacht and when Obama was elected he decide that he may as well just scuttle the boat rather than deal with the taxes.

Oh, and before the enviro-libs get all happy about a new artificial reef they should know that he painted the inside with toxic chemicals before sinking it. that's just how rich people do things when they don't get their way.

I didn't realize that yachts were a significant proportion of the GDP.

Dancin_In_Anson: Tor_Eckman: {citation needed}

If you would like more, a simple Google of 'luxury tax yachts' turns up juuuuust a few articles regarding it. Would you like for me to give you a few more articles or would you like to look for yourself?

Your citation is anecdotal, at best. So yes, if you have some actual evidence, bring it on.

dancing bear: You seem to have a knack for finding pointless support for pointless arguments, so go ahead and find a few more, if you wouldn't mind.

Not.

At.

All.

The last one is a snippet of an article from 1993 that shows who was in favor of repealing the tax. Go figure eh?

simplicimus: I didn't realize that yachts were a significant proportion of the GDP.

This is America. A thousand people should starve so that one man can buy his dream boat sooner.

Dancin_In_Anson: dancing bear: You seem to have a knack for finding pointless support for pointless arguments, so go ahead and find a few more, if you wouldn't mind.

Not.

At.

All.

The last one is a snippet of an article from 1993 that shows who was in favor of repealing the tax. Go figure eh?

I'm convinced. If the current administration decides to bring back this luxury tax you speak of, I will recommend they consult with you on that issue. That is if they ask me, and I hope they don't.

dancing bear: If the current administration decides to bring back this luxury tax you speak of, I will recommend they consult with you on that issue. That is if they ask me, and I hope they don't.

Ah, they are going to do so much more. Sit back and enjoy.

Bored Horde: A thousand people should starve so that one man can buy his dream boat sooner.

The best part was those that starved because he didn't buy his dream boat.

That's ok, folks, in our little corner of the world, today Mastercraft layed off another hundred, to add to the 240 that SeaRay layed off and the closing of Moomba, the stopping of a new facility to build bigger yachts on Lake Tellico, it doesn't matter, we're not building boats anyway.

Most of the people in our church food line today don't want the handout,the extended unemployment benefits or a siht load of money poured into Citi bank. They want to make boats. And even east Tennessee rednecks know, if no one can buy a boat, they don't need to make them.

Dancin_In_Anson: The best part was those that starved because he didn't buy his dream boat.

aren't you the guy who is having feathers for dinner today ? Or is today the chicken ?

Mordant: aren't you the guy who is having feathers for dinner today ? Or is today the chicken ?

We're on the bones right now. When the oilfield gets it's buttfarking we'll be having the feathers.

Dancin_In_Anson: The best part was those that starved because he didn't buy his dream boat.

Does that actually make sense to you?

In other words, anybody who actually produces something. As opposed to any part of government.

torch: In other words, anybody who actually produces something. As opposed to any part of government.

You are suggesting that the govt does not produce anything.

I submit to you that there is more bullshiat coming out of Washington than from all other manure producers combined.

Seems to me that, when someone's been attacking you for years, and you finally hit back, you're not declaring war on them.

You're just acknowledging that they've declared war on you.

Mordant: Oh sure, rule out the only idea that could possibly work. Now I may as well just retire and abandon my business instead of selling it or even burning it down for the insurance money.

Unlikely. First you'd have to find a serious buyer or a really good arsonist.

larry kudlow? ROTFLMAO

GAT_00: Does that actually make sense to you?

Absolutely. What part are you having difficulty with? The part where if there are no buyers there is no need for builders or something else?

Study after study over the past several decades has shown how countries that spend more produce less, while nations that tax less produce more

you know why I don't trust the Republicans anymore? I've got a couple reasons. First off, I always have this nagging suspicion that the Republicans are just fine with massive government spending. They just want the money to go to their buddies and not anyone else. Secondly, and I could be verging into tinfoil hat territory here, I think that the Republicans would much rather have this country divided up into a corporate feudal state than encourage free markets and open competition. I know we need corporations and related entities, but that doesn't mean i'd trust them to behave themselves. Any time a Republican analyst tells me to 'trust the market' I think he's really saying 'I want to pillage your bank account and give it to my investment broker'.

NOTHING that the Republicans have done for the past 15 or 20 years encourages me to believe that they have my best interests at heart. In fact, I see very little functional difference between the Republican and Democratic parties - they both want to raise my taxes, spend my money and boss me around. I dunno, it's just how I see it. Take it for what you will....but don't expect me to believe thing one any Republican mouthspewing agitprop spin doctor says while in public.

I'm really enjoying all the Republicans whining at how Obama is doing exactly what an overwhelming percentage of the electorate voted for him to do. You know, all the things the Republicans opposed, that the electors roundly repudiated, that got their guy completely trounced, and which lost them seats in both the Senate and the House.

And they still can't figure out why no one listens to them.

What a bunch of sandy-vag biatches, but they make me LOL.

And the problem is?