Sigh.

okay, george, rove, cheney, rummy, what have you boys been up to?


i'll send you all to your rooms for the day if you don't fess up.

That guy was trouble. I mean why did he commit suicide? He was probably angry that someone beat him to the anthrax punch and after years of wishing it was him that man finally felt the stress and committed suicide. We're lucky he didn't kill us all.

Yeah, it is looking more and more like it was an inside job to stir up fear. That Dick Cheney is such a nice fellow, I am sure he never could do something like that or instruct others to do so and then have them killed.

I called this in the threads about this before. It was all very convenient.

Suicided?

Does that make him the Suicider?

You don't say.

whidbey: Does that make him the Suicider?

No, he was suicided. Passive. Like "He fell on a bullet. 27 times."

unlikely: No, he was suicided. Passive. Like "He fell on a bullet. 27 times."

If only he had that kind of drive to live. Falling on 27 bullets takes some determination.

At least Richard Jewell got to go on SNL.

Crap, now I have to go back to making the dog open my mail again.

whidbey: Suicided?

Does that make him the Suicider?

Fox News, fair and balanced, you suicide.

But...but...there's no such thing as a conspiracy!

Did anyone RTFA?

Big surprise! I hope this really blows up.

Some really dirty stuff happened here. What a miscarriage of justice.

iaazathot: Yeah, it is looking more and more like it was an inside job to stir up fear. That Dick Cheney is such a nice fellow, I am sure he never could do something like that or instruct others to do so and then have them killed.

Why would they need to stir up just a little more fear just a few weeks after 9/11? That would be like throwing a bucket of water in the ocean.

/Goes to read TFA

The only people who claim there have been no terrorist attacks in this country since 9/11 are the ones behind the anthrax attacks.

/they shut down my post office because those envelopes went through it

Fireproof: Why would they need to stir up just a little more fear just a few weeks after 9/11? That would be like throwing a bucket of water in the ocean.

There was no WMD connection with 9/11. It was well known that Iraq had anthrax production facilities and there was indeed a very concerted effort to link the attacks with Iraq.

I seriously doubt we'll ever know the real story about the anthrax attacks. Even if the truth does come out, we'll never have a way of telling it from another load of BS.

==================================================

whidbey: Suicided?

Does that make him the Suicider?

more like the suicidee.

=========================================================
Mr. Anon:
If only he had that kind of drive to live. Falling on 27 bullets takes some determination.


Actually, I had a neighbor who committed suicide by shooting himself in the chest-- Five times!


_{/Protip: If you want to die by shooting yourself, get something bigger than a .22 pistol.
//I actually heard him do it-- I thought it was kids playing with firecrackers.}

Speaking of a so-called suicide and Cheney the DC madam comes to mind.

Subby is suggesting that the Clintons were involved in Bruce Ivins' "suicide"?

-------------------------
Riche 2009-02-27 08:06:03 PM
I seriously doubt we'll ever know the real story about the anthrax attacks. Even if the truth does come out, we'll never have a way of telling it from another load of BS.

==================================================

whidbey: Suicided?

Does that make him the Suicider?

more like the suicidee.
---------------------------

Some would say that he was 'suicided'. I call it 'Fosterized' after Vince Foster. It's convenient. Use anthrax, blame the guy, Fosterize him because dead me can't say "It's genetically different".... profit?

Well I'm no conspiracy theorist, but did anyone here on FARK really believe this guy suicided? Or that the DC Madam did? I don't believe I posted in the original thread, but I found it dubious when I saw it. It seemed very circumstantial and convenient. And even if the guy offed himself, there's no connection from that to culpability for the anthrax envelopes.

arenaninja: Well I'm no conspiracy theorist, but did anyone here on FARK really believe this guy suicided? Or that the DC Madam did? I don't believe I posted in the original thread, but I found it dubious when I saw it. It seemed very circumstantial and convenient. And even if the guy offed himself, there's no connection from that to culpability for the anthrax envelopes.

read the headline again. it saya "was suicided"

as in it was done for him.

arenaninja
Well I'm no conspiracy theorist, but did anyone here on FARK really believe this guy suicided?

I sure as hell didn't. http://anthraxvaccine.blogspot.com/

I'm no 'troofer' or anything but I've been suspicious of government involvement since the day of the Anthrax attacks.

'Suicide' is a verb now?

/Yeah, I know. Verbing weirds language.

arenaninja: did anyone here on FARK really believe this guy suicided?

Or that the DC Madam did?

Or Enron Corp. vice chairman J. Clifford Baxter?

Or that GOP consultant Michael Connell's plane crashed accidentally?

arenaninja
Well I'm no conspiracy theorist, but did anyone here on FARK really believe this guy suicided?

I can believe he killed himself. He was being hounded by the FBI, was under immense scrutiny, and it sounded like he was rather neurotic.

The NY Times had a real hack job of an article on him after he died. Went into detail about how he posted under different names on sorority blogs and shyte like that. OK he had some weird obsessions. But if the FBI seized most Americans' computers and leaked the contents to a major newspaper, something weird or inappropriate (like your porn fetishes) would be trumpeted across the globe.

\always great for the family and friends
\\sarcasm

Dr.Zom
arenaninja: did anyone here on FARK really believe this guy suicided?

Or that the DC Madam did?

Or Enron Corp. vice chairman J. Clifford Baxter?

Or that GOP consultant Michael Connell's plane crashed accidentally?

Enron guy, yes I can believe he committed suicide.

Now I've always been a bit suspicious about the uber-liberal Michigan senator Paul Wellstone dying in a plane crash.

But people really do kill themselves or die in plane crashes all the time, so I'm not gonna sit there and say Karl Rove or Hillary Clinton masterminded it all.

Suidecider

Egalitarian: Now I've always been a bit suspicious about the uber-liberal Michigan senator Paul Wellstone dying in a plane crash.

He was from Minnesota not that 3rd world state.

/unavailable for comment
//caught in a mosh

I'm quite sure he killed himself, if only because after 7 years of FBI scrutiny and suspicion, even a well-balanced person might become a bit self-destructive, and he hardly sounded like he was normal to start with.

As to the anthrax samples "not matching"; I'm not entirely convinced the FBI labs can match two identical samples of DNA on a good day, and given the delay between the anthrax mailings and the near-arrest, it's possible what we've got are just two different strains and the FBI in their excitement and rush to prove their superiority simply f*cked things up.

Or, it's entirely possible this guy was AN anthrax mailer. It's not as if he was the only person in the world with access to the stuff and a beef with America. The FBI likes to think that assassins and extremists only come in groups of one; this is quite often a mistake.

This was so ridiculous. FBI sits on the case for what, 6 years? The day after this guy commits suicide they announce "Oh, it was him, case closed". It's horseshiat and it's disgusting. Conspiracy or not, justice was not served.

Oops! Looks like the Bushies suicided the wrong guy.

Gyrfalcon: As to the anthrax samples "not matching"; I'm not entirely convinced the FBI labs can match two identical samples of DNA on a good day, and given the delay between the anthrax mailings and the near-arrest, it's possible what we've got are just two different strains and the FBI in their excitement and rush to prove their superiority simply f*cked things up.

Someone didn't RTFA. It wasn't done by a DNA match and even the person they talked to said that he still could have done it.

Fireproof: Gyrfalcon: As to the anthrax samples "not matching"; I'm not entirely convinced the FBI labs can match two identical samples of DNA on a good day, and given the delay between the anthrax mailings and the near-arrest, it's possible what we've got are just two different strains and the FBI in their excitement and rush to prove their superiority simply f*cked things up.

Someone didn't RTFA. It wasn't done by a DNA match and even the personFBI Spokesperson they talked to said that he still could have done it.

Please also note that the FBI Spokesperson did not say "he did beyond a reasonable shadow of doubt". He said "It doesn't surprise me that it would be different because I've always known he didn't do it,"


=====
Jason Bannan, a microbiologist and forensic examiner at the FBI's Chemical Biological Sciences Unit in Quantico, Virginia, told Kwok.

"It doesn't surprise me that it would be different," said Bannan.

So anthrax troofing is ok?

Fireproof: Gyrfalcon: As to the anthrax samples "not matching"; I'm not entirely convinced the FBI labs can match two identical samples of DNA on a good day, and given the delay between the anthrax mailings and the near-arrest, it's possible what we've got are just two different strains and the FBI in their excitement and rush to prove their superiority simply f*cked things up.

Someone didn't RTFA. It wasn't done by a DNA match and even the person they talked to said that he still could have done it.

I didn't say it was. It was by way of comparison, dumbf*ck. You know: The FBI couldn't match identical samples of DNA. Ergo, they could easily have made a mistake in comparing the strains of anthrax.

I should know better than to make complex comparison statements on Fark on the weekend.

Did anyone notice how the FBI failed to connect the first anthrax victim to this guy? The first victim was Robert Steven a photo editor for the "National Enquirer".

The FBI never located an anthrax letter, so really nobody knows how he contracted anthrax(the FBI never found a letter in the CBS offices in NY City either) or when he contracted anthrax. He could have been exposed before 9/11.

Robert Stevens (new window)

The anthrax sent to the National Enquirer was the same as the anthrax sent to the Senators, but was different than the anthrax sent to NY City:
The brown granular anthrax sent to media outlets in New York City caused only skin infections, cutaneous anthrax. The anthrax sent to the Senators caused the more dangerous form of infection known as inhalational anthrax, as did the anthrax sent to AMI in Florida. (new window)

Why would that suicide guy make two different forms of anthrax? Neither of which match the flask he supposedly used?

None of this makes any sense at all.

oops!

mcreadyblue: Did anyone notice how the FBI failed to connect the first anthrax victim to this guy? The first victim was Robert Steven a photo editor for the "National Enquirer".

The FBI never located an anthrax letter, so really nobody knows how he contracted anthrax(the FBI never found a letter in the CBS offices in NY City either) or when he contracted anthrax. He could have been exposed before 9/11.

Robert Stevens (new window)

The anthrax sent to the National Enquirer was the same as the anthrax sent to the Senators, but was different than the anthrax sent to NY City:
The brown granular anthrax sent to media outlets in New York City caused only skin infections, cutaneous anthrax. The anthrax sent to the Senators caused the more dangerous form of infection known as inhalational anthrax, as did the anthrax sent to AMI in Florida. (new window)

Why would that suicide guy make two different forms of anthrax? Neither of which match the flask he supposedly used?

None of this makes any sense at all.

What I'm hearing is there is a 3rd sample out there waiting to strike.

You know, I don't see any reason why this needs to be a government conspiracy. I mean, there are a lot of organizations, a lot of plans. The fact that they actually managed to get their objective complete proves that the US government of the 2000s had NOTHING to do with it.

If Bush was behind it, the anthrax attacks would have taken 6-10 years, gone billions over budget and at the end we would find out we spent the entire time working with styrofoam pellets from a bean-bag chair instead of finely milled anthrax spores. Some guy would be found in Antigua with a briefcase full of cash, but it would be a tiny sum compared to all the money we'd find was missing.

20 years later, people would still be talking about the missing billions and the styrofoam pellets that were passed off as bacterium. We'd laugh that the president couldn't tell the difference between "really small" and "microscopic".

And then Oliver Stone would make a movie blaming it on the mafia.

ChaoticLimbs: You know, I don't see any reason why this needs to be a government conspiracy. I mean, there are a lot of organizations, a lot of plans. The fact that they actually managed to get their objective complete proves that the US government of the 2000s had NOTHING to do with it.

If Bush was behind it, the anthrax attacks would have taken 6-10 years, gone billions over budget and at the end we would find out we spent the entire time working with styrofoam pellets from a bean-bag chair instead of finely milled anthrax spores. Some guy would be found in Antigua with a briefcase full of cash, but it would be a tiny sum compared to all the money we'd find was missing.

20 years later, people would still be talking about the missing billions and the styrofoam pellets that were passed off as bacterium. We'd laugh that the president couldn't tell the difference between "really small" and "microscopic".

And then Oliver Stone would make a movie blaming it on the mafia.

"The Bush Administration" does NOT equal "The Government".

Administrations come and go, the Pentagon and its black budget offspring persist.

Bruce Ivins didn't send it. It's more likely a company like Batelle or something did. (Who's corporate headquarters happens to be in Princeton NJ)

This conspiracy crap is nonsense. If the eeevil gubmint had wanted to "suicide" someone to create a nice pat ending for their plot, they would have done it to Steven Hatfill, the man who was the primary suspect in the investigation for seven years before finally being exonerated.

Ivins did lots of things to draw suspicion to himself. He was working late hours that he couldn't explain around the time of the mailings, he had himself inoculated against anthrax in early September 2001, a commercial vaccine that he stood to make a huge amount of money on was being pulled from the shelves, he provided suspect evidence in the original investigation, etc.

Frankly, it sounds like he was frustrated that "his" vaccine wasn't going to sell, and so decided to give people a good reason to want an anthrax vaccine -- either out of revenge or in some deluded notion that this would cause the decision to pull his vaccine to be reversed. Sounds kind of nutty, but it's been shown that he was pretty nutty about other things.

On the other hand, TFA does nothing to exonerate Ivins. All it says is that specific additional chemicals were found in one vial in Ivins' possession that was not found in the anthrax mailings. As the FBI agent quoted in the story says, that really doesn't mean anything, because the mailed anthrax could have been manufactured and stored differently.

Ah, yep, here we go:

Ivins, 62, died Tuesday in an apparent suicide in Maryland. Federal authorities had informed his lawyer that criminal charges related to the mailings would be filed.

As a co-inventor of a new anthrax vaccine, Ivins was among those in line to collect patent royalties if the product had come to market, according to an executive familiar with the matter.

The product had languished on laboratory shelves until the Sept. 11 attacks and the anthrax mailings, after which federal officials raced to stockpile vaccines and antidotes against potential biological terrorism.

A San Francisco-area biotechnology company, VaxGen, won a federal contract worth $877.5 million to provide batches of the new vaccine. The contract was the first awarded under legislation promoted by President Bush, called Project BioShield.

In the event, the contract was cancelled after the company failed to deliver. But that was two years after the anthrax attacks; in other words, if the attacks were intended to create demand for the vaccine, they succeeded.

Justin Raimondo over at antiwar.com has been covering this case for many years, and covering it well. Glen Greenwald touched on it, too. The scientist was hounded to death by a bunch of FBI goons because it goes MUCH deeper than one guy. The targets were guys who opposed the PATRIOT Act, as you may remember. And they MSM tried to pin it on---guess---Arabs!!!

Has anyone mentioned Brian's Prediction #6666 (new window) yet?

And #7063.

Heheh. Kooky stuff. :)

But the thing is, it no longer seems so unlikely that this was an official government project.