Excellent.

People: If your job offends your religious believes, get a new job, or a new set of believes.

No you CANNOT work for a Catholic School and start a pro choice group.
No you CANNOT work at a grocery store and reviews to sell pork/liquor.
No you CANNOT be a doctor and refuse a patients request.

what_now: No you CANNOT be a doctor and refuse a patients request.

No, you CANNOT work at a pharmacy and refuse to provide birth control pills to teenagers or the morning-after pill to anyone at all.

what_now: Excellent.

People: If your job offends your religious believes, get a new job, or a new set of believes.

No you CANNOT work for a Catholic School and start a pro choice group.
No you CANNOT work at a grocery store and reviews to sell pork/liquor.
No you CANNOT be a doctor and refuse a patients request.

You're normally perfect on the spelling and grammar were you making a point by saying reviews and believes? I'm trying to "get it." Anyway I agree with the jist 100%.

If this law stayed I always thought the fact that the doctor or pharmacist on duty was being a farkwad should be on a sign as you enter the building so I know to take my business elsewhere for all my other needs.

Gwendolyn: You're normally perfect on the spelling and grammar were you making a point by saying reviews and believes?

No...I edited tense after I wrote it. I do that sometimes. I'm an idiot.

what_now: People: If your job offends your religious believes, get a new job, or a new set of believes.

This.

No you CANNOT be a Buddhist highway patrol officer and kill Buddha if you see him on the road. That's still a felony.

I have no problem with either the Bush or the Obama ruling one way or the other. They provide the funding, they get to call the tune. On the employees' end, nobody should be shocked or surprised that government funding always comes with strings attached. You work someplace that takes state money, you play by state rules. And now the rules are different. Deal.

If you want to start a pharmacy with a stated policy of not selling contraceptives or prophylactics, go for it and see if you can compete. I could see there being a market.

Two Dogs Farking: what_now: No you CANNOT be a doctor and refuse a patients request.

No, you CANNOT work at a pharmacy and refuse to provide birth control pills to teenagers or the morning-after pill to anyone at all.

Sure you can. No law can force a practitioner to perform an action, they can only proscribe what actions they can perform.

This is just kind of silly. I am a nurse, I oppose abortion, no federal law is going to make me participate in an abortion.

What are they going to do take away my nursing license. OK with me, if nursing (or pharmacy, or medicine) devolves to the point that the federal government is making the decisions I'll stop being a nurse. I know many of my physician and pharmacist colleagues will do the same.

Wait until there are only chain pharmacies with H1B contractors filling your prescriptions because all of the good pharmacists have had it. Try and get proper advice and consultation then.

As to the article, the woman did not get pregnant because someone would not fill her prescription she got pregnant because she screwed her husband. The rape victim as referred to another pharmacy after the pharmacist called the other pharmacy to see if they could fill the prescription. These stories have been paraded around, but when examined closely they are found to have omitted pertinent facts.

what_now: Excellent.

People: If your job offends your religious believes, get a new job, or a new set of believes.

No you CANNOT work for a Catholic School and start a pro choice group.
No you CANNOT work at a grocery store and reviews to sell pork/liquor.
No you CANNOT be a doctor and refuse a patients request.

Did you use babelfish to translate that post to Engrish?

You can work for a Catholic School and start a pro choice group, just not at work.
You can work at a grocery store and refuse to sell pork or liquor. Wegmans in NY refusese to sell smokes, many stores refuse to sell alcoholic beverages for many different reasons, and cab drivers in Minnesota refuse passengers carrying alcohol.

Of course a physician can refuse a patient's request. Many of the ER patients just want a nice bottle of Vicodin, but few of them get it.

feckingmorons: What are they going to do take away my nursing license. OK with me, if nursing (or pharmacy, or medicine) devolves to the point that the federal government is making the decisions I'll stop being a nurse.

You fail at healthcare.

You have no right, as a nurse, to refuse treatment to me. You can choose not to work at a Planned Parenthood, but if I come in needing an abortion, even if I "screwed my husband" as you put it, you don't get to say no.

feckingmorons: This is just kind of silly. I am a nurse, I oppose abortion, no federal law is going to make me participate in an abortion.

No but if you get a job at an OB/GYN where they preform abortions and then reuse to do that aspect of your job you deserved to be out on your ass with no unemployment benefits.

refuse...

I really did think whatnow goofed on purpose. I thought the article was full of errors I was missing or something.

feckingmorons: Wait until there are only chain pharmacies with H1B contractors filling your prescriptions because all of the good pharmacists have had it.

"Good pharmacists" don't put themselves before their patients. shiatty pharmacists do.

Gwendolyn: I really did think whatnow goofed on purpose

No. I'm just an idiot. Thanks for the benefit of the doubt though!

;)

Good.

feckingmorons: You can work at a grocery store and refuse to sell pork or liquor. Wegmans in NY refusese to sell smokes, many stores refuse to sell alcoholic beverages for many different reasons,

You're confusing business and employee choices, not to mention that medical care is an essential service.

You can't refuse care, this isn't the same as not dispensing DEA controlled substances.

Good. I don't give a good goddamn what your religion is, if you are in a medical field and you can not fully complete your job, whatever it is, you should not be in that job. Period. Your religion should NEVER come up.

I work as a computer programmer. I don't program anti-piracy software because I subscribe to Pastafarianism...

what_now: feckingmorons: What are they going to do take away my nursing license. OK with me, if nursing (or pharmacy, or medicine) devolves to the point that the federal government is making the decisions I'll stop being a nurse.

You fail at healthcare.

You have no right, as a nurse, to refuse treatment to me. You can choose not to work at a Planned Parenthood, but if I come in needing an abortion, even if I "screwed my husband" as you put it, you don't get to say no.

I don't get to say no you can't have an abortion. I do get to say no I will not participate in it.

Oh, and where I live it is a state law as well so if I don't want to participate in abortion I don't have to.

I will however provide you referrals to places that do provide abortion if you ask. I will also provide referrals for alternatives to abortions if you ask for those.

I will not try to sway your decision either way, but I will not participate in an abortion.

feckingmorons: This is just kind of silly. I am a nurse, I oppose abortion, no federal law is going to make me participate in an abortion.

Where do you work? I want to know only because I like to avoid going to places that hire people that are so pretentious and high up on their own pedestal they forget that they are in a job who's goal is to provide medical services to people, not to judge them and decide whether or not they deserve your farking opinion or services.

Distance your personal beliefs from your job, or GTFO and get another career where you can be a douche. May I suggest being a writer for the Huffington Post?

Good.

Gwendolyn: feckingmorons: This is just kind of silly. I am a nurse, I oppose abortion, no federal law is going to make me participate in an abortion.

No but if you get a job at an OB/GYN where they preform abortions and then reuse to do that aspect of your job you deserved to be out on your ass with no unemployment benefits.

If someone opposed abortion why would they get a job at an abortion clinc? I wouldn't.

I am not making a political statement by not participating in abortions, I am following my personal religious beliefs. If I were to get a job at an abortion clinic and then refuse to participate in abortions that would be political grandstanding and improper.

Similarly if a pharmacist decides not to stock plan B because it violates his beliefs, yet when customers come in and ask for it he tells them he does not stock it, that is following his beliefs not making a political statement.

No Catholic pharmacist I know (three of them) would give the patient anti-abortion literature, or lecture them if they did not stock the med, they would just tell them they don't have it and if the patient wished help them find a pharmacy that does.

It is a personal choice. We don't want to participate in what we feel is improper, we ask that you respect that choice.

feckingmorons: Oh, and where I live it is a state law as well so if I don't want to participate in abortion I don't have to.

That is your choice. The problem was pharmacists were refusing to dispense medication that was prescribed by a doctor for a patient, which is different that you deciding to not participate in an abortion. The pharmacists' primary job is to dispense medication as written by a physician for a patient. If there is a question about drug interactions, then the pharmacist can question the prescription. The pharmacist's own moral code should NOT be part of the equation in dispensing medication.

feckingmorons: I don't get to say no you can't have an abortion. I do get to say no I will not participate in it.

Do you have to let your employer know before hand? This bill allowed for someone to just not do their job with no explanation, and no forewarning.

This includes a nurse just not scrubbing for a procedure. It could be misused in so many ways it's not even funny.

RoxtarRyan: feckingmorons: This is just kind of silly. I am a nurse, I oppose abortion, no federal law is going to make me participate in an abortion.

Where do you work? I want to know only because I like to avoid going to places that hire people that are so pretentious and high up on their own pedestal they forget that they are in a job who's goal is to provide medical services to people, not to judge them and decide whether or not they deserve your farking opinion or services.

Distance your personal beliefs from your job, or GTFO and get another career where you can be a douche. May I suggest being a writer for the Huffington Post?

I work in an ER. We don't provide abortions in the ER, although from time to time (usually saturday mornings when the abortion mill is open) see women who have had complications with their abortion and the clinic is unable to provide the totality of care the patient needs so they transfer them by ambulance to the ER. I take care of these patients in the exact same manner as any other patient.

Why is someone's choice to get an aborion somehow more respected than my choice to not participate in providing abortions?

feckingmorons: If someone opposed abortion why would they get a job at an abortion clinc? I wouldn't.

Then why should a pharmacist who has a problem dispensing medications as prescribed by a doctor have a job dispensing those medications? It's the same thing. If you have a problem with doing the job - the ENTIRE job - then that is not the job for you.

feckingmorons: Why is someone's choice to get an aborion somehow more respected than my choice to not participate in providing abortions?

Because if you're in a service industry to provide something that you're against providing, you are now imposing your morals on someone else.

feckingmorons: I will not try to sway your decision either way, but I will not participate in an abortion.

I'm essentially pro-choice, but I don't have a complete, succinct argument that its not murder. I just believe its not.

To this end, I can't have a problem with you thinking this.

Taking another step into the abortion debate, the Obama administration Friday will move to rescind a controversial rule that allows health-care workers to deny abortion counseling or other family-planning services if doing so would violate their moral beliefs, according to administration officials.

An abortion kills the life of a baby after it has begun... Birth control merely postpones the beginning of life. ~ Planned Parenthood "Plan Your Children" pamphlet in 1963.

I have always frankly admitted that abortion is murder, the extermination of the powerless by the powerful. Liberals for the most part have shrunk from facing the ethical consequences of their embrace of abortion, which results in the annihilation of concrete individuals and not just clumps of insensate tissue. ~ Camille Paglia


murder: killing an innocent person when you have the ability not to kill that person.

person: someone with unique human chromosomes that will continue to grow if provided with nutrition and protection. The only reason to suggest ANY other definition is to justify killing other people.

child: a person with 2 parents

abortion = child murder

Victims? Don't be melodramatic. Look down there. Would you really feel any pity if one of those dots stopped moving forever? If I offered you 20,000 pounds for every dot that stopped, would you really, old man, tell me to keep my money? Or would you calculate how many dots you could afford to spare? Free of income tax, old man, free of income tax. The only way you can save money nowadays. ~ Harry Lime

This law has only ever been a thinly veiled attempt to prevent women from having control over their reproductive rights.

If an EMT refused to treat a heart attack victim because he was overweight and lived a life of sinful gluttony, you can bet your ass he'd be sued and fired...

If a doctor refused to treat a mixed race child under the pretext that the bible says to keep the separate peoples separate (a big argument for segregation and anti-interracial-marriage just a few short decades ago), he'd be fired for being racist and should any harm come to the child due to the delay in treatment you can bet he'd be criminally and civilly held accountable.

If a doctor refused to treat a person with HIV claiming that HIV is god's punishment for their promiscuous sex, he'd be fired.

It's only when a woman's health and well being are in jeopardy with regard to her sexual history that we allow doctors to shirk their duties and get away with it. It's BS.

UberDave: I work as a computer programmer. I don't program anti-piracy software because I subscribe to Pastafarianism...

actually, you could in network security by day, then code virus programs and hacker tools for the script kiddies by night.

Job security is a good thing!

SpaceyCat: Because if you're in a service industry to provide something that you're against providing, you are now imposing your morals on someone else.

Say I'm in the service industry to provide people drinks at a bar. I have the right to not provide them to someone who's drunk or even just being a prick because they can't handle their drinky.

Same thing. If I wish, as a private pharmacist, to believe you're misusing drugs, I'm going to refuse you.

Bevets: The only reason to suggest ANY other definition is to justify killing other people.

Your definition makes all women into murderers regardless of the legality of abortion. Please try again.

Idiot.

Careful everybody, somebody just dropped a big of shiat in here try not to slip and fall in it.

SpaceyCat: feckingmorons: Why is someone's choice to get an aborion somehow more respected than my choice to not participate in providing abortions?

Because if you're in a service industry to provide something that you're against providing, you are now imposing your morals on someone else.

so if i'm selling anti-virus software, then I have to oppose laws that punish computer criminals and virus writers?

SpaceyCat: feckingmorons: Oh, and where I live it is a state law as well so if I don't want to participate in abortion I don't have to.

That is your choice. The problem was pharmacists were refusing to dispense medication that was prescribed by a doctor for a patient, which is different that you deciding to not participate in an abortion. The pharmacists' primary job is to dispense medication as written by a physician for a patient. If there is a question about drug interactions, then the pharmacist can question the prescription. The pharmacist's own moral code should NOT be part of the equation in dispensing medication.

Actually the pharmacists primary job is to dispense medications appropriate to treat the patient. If a doctor writes propecia for a pregnant but balding woman a pharmacist is not absolved of responsibility if he fills the prescription (Propecia will damage the fetus). That is why the practice of pharmacy is not a junior college diploma, but a professional degree with a rigirous licensure examination.

Not all pharmacies carry all medicines, in fact few pharmacies even in hospitals carry all the medications available. A pharmacy must stock what can be dispensed before it expires. In the case of the emergency contraceptive it is time sensitive so if a pharmacy does not elect to carry it for any reason (beliefs, low volume of sales, not enough shelf space) ordering the medication is not a viable option. All of the pharmacists I know would provide alternatives for filling the prescription for the patient - calling another pharmacy, or calling another pharmacist from the same store to fill it if they will not.

I don't find any physician, pharmacist, or nurse that desires to force their religious views on any patient.

Do we not have the freedom of our beliefs in this nation? Are we not free to not do things that violate our religious beliefs. You can't get a ham sandwich in a Kosher deli, should the counter staff be forced by federal law to give you something which violates their beleifs, or is it more appropriate for them to say we don't have ham, but the place on the next block does.

Bevets, go away. We aren't talking about evolution.

ninjakirby: Bevets: The only reason to suggest ANY other definition is to justify killing other people.

Your definition makes all women into murderers regardless of the legality of abortion. Please try again.

Idiot.

If you really want to understand the abortion movement in this country, go read up on Margret Sanger and her political/ideological beliefs. She started planned parenthood as part of her belief in eugenics.

Bevets: person: someone with unique human chromosomes that will continue to grow if provided with nutrition and protection. The only reason to suggest ANY other definition is to justify killing other people.

Well, we'd better start arresting people who masturbate, because that is enclosed by that bullshiat definition. Every male over 12 is now in jail. Thank you dumbass.

feckingmorons: I don't get to say no you can't have an abortion. I do get to say no I will not participate in it.

Oh, and where I live it is a state law as well so if I don't want to participate in abortion I don't have to.

I will however provide you referrals to places that do provide abortion if you ask. I will also provide referrals for alternatives to abortions if you ask for those.

I will not try to sway your decision either way, but I will not participate in an abortion.

And nobody is going to make you. Obama is overturning the rulings where people who actively want to stop people from having abortions could go get jobs at Planned Parenthood, for example, and Planned Parenthood couldn't even *ask* if they'd have any conflicts with providing abortion care. After the fact, if they did, they couldn't be fired for refusing the participate in/provide the services offered by the clinic/doctor they worked for.

I have to imagine you're smart enough [I hope, anyway] to not work somewhere that providing an abortion is part of your job requirement. There are PLENTY of places where a nurse can work and never have to come near an abortion, ob/gyn included.

And I respect your choice to not work in a field or position that would compromise your morals and beliefs.

That said, a pharmacist who is SO tied to their beliefs that they will deny a patient a legitimate prescription [ignoring that many women take birth control to control their periods, for PMDD, for endometriosis treatment, or even for acne treatment] because they don't believe in it... is just plain wrong. The only time a pharmacist should even question a prescription is if they see a potential interaction in the prescription history of the patient. Otherwise? they're interfering with the doctor's practice and the patient's health. That's inexcusable. I think Obama will overturn protection for pharmacists who choose to deny prescriptions because they disagree with them... and I agree with him 100%.

Don't be a pharmacist if you can't put a box of Yaz in a bag and hand it to a woman who doesn't want to get pregnant, has had all the kids she wants/can afford, or is using it to treat other medical conditions.

I couldn't kill an animal, so I don't work in a slaughterhouse. How hard is this for these people to process? Were these pharmacists surprised to learn they'd be selling birth control when they got their job?

what_now: Bevets, go away. We aren't talking about evolution.

I'd disagree. Sanger believed that abortion on demand was a wonderful way to control human evolution.

downstairs: Say I'm in the service industry to provide people drinks at a bar. I have the right to not provide them to someone who's drunk or even just being a prick because they can't handle their drinky.

Same thing. If I wish, as a private pharmacist, to believe you're misusing drugs, I'm going to refuse you.

Nice straw man there. Not even going to argue with that one because the two are not even close to being equal.

SpaceyCat: feckingmorons: Why is someone's choice to get an aborion somehow more respected than my choice to not participate in providing abortions?

Because if you're in a service industry to provide something that you're against providing, you are now imposing your morals on someone else.

Auto repair is a service industry, nursing is not. Please refer to my Jewish deli analogy above.

You may not like that a pharmacist, physician, or nurse will not provide services that violate their religious or moral code, however one of the freedoms we are guaranteed in this country is the freedom to practice our religion as we see fit.

feckingmorons: You may not like that a pharmacist, physician, or nurse will not provide services that violate their religious or moral code, however one of the freedoms we are guaranteed in this country is the freedom to practice our religion as we see fit.

And it's not like a woman couldn't do some research and find a doctor that suits her needs.

You can't pick and choose which parts of your job you "will" do.

A pharmacist is hired to take prescriptions and then dispense the medication. He can't sit there and go "Oh, you want birth control pills? I'm Catholic and against that. NO BIRTH CONTROL PILLS FOR YOU HARLOT!"

If you refuse to do the job you were hired to do then you should be fired. End of story.

Weaver95: ninjakirby: Bevets: The only reason to suggest ANY other definition is to justify killing other people.

Your definition makes all women into murderers regardless of the legality of abortion. Please try again.

Idiot.

If you really want to understand the abortion movement in this country, go read up on Margret Sanger and her political/ideological beliefs. She started planned parenthood as part of her belief in eugenics.

I don't give a shiat about "the abortion movement". The Evangelical/Catholic definition of life and personhood is simply terrible and ignores all nuance and difficulty with the issue of how sexual reproduction farking works.

Walker: You can't pick and choose which parts of your job you "will" do.

A pharmacist is hired to take prescriptions and then dispense the medication. He can't sit there and go "Oh, you want birth control pills? I'm Catholic and against that. NO BIRTH CONTROL PILLS FOR YOU HARLOT!"

If you refuse to do the job you were hired to do then you should be fired. End of story.

Or you could just go down the road to the next pharmacist and never go back to that other store again.

Free market economics is like that.

Weaver95: Sanger believed that abortion on demand was a wonderful way to control human evolution.

Charles Lindbergh was a Nazi sympathiser. That doesn't mean I refuse to fly.

what_now: Bevets, go away. We aren't talking about evolution.