god forbid someone in washington have a critical word for israel. they're allowed to criticize america (sometimes), but israel is totally off limits.

Israel should DIAF

As first lady, Clinton raised eyebrows when she kissed Suha Arafat.

Go ooooooooooooon.

Has anyone called her anti-Semitic yet?

Because that's what we're supposed to call people who criticize Israel. At all. For anything.

Elements of a flamewar article:

1) Minimal information on the actual position of the politician in question
2) Lots of outraged persons
3) Attempts to portray events in a grossly skewed light

and, most importantly,

4) Having anything to do with Israel/Palestine.

Also. Islay scotch is the best. Fast zombies are cooler. You know who you are.

FTA: "Hillary had Mrs. Arafat here and she invited Mrs. Arafat for lunch when she was the first lady," added Babak Chafe of Great Neck. "She is pro-Palestinian 100 percent, really. Of course, we always knew it."

Who the fark is this woman? Why does her opinion matter?

They interviewed random people and slapped the outraged comments into the article. This isn't journalism, this is a hack piece.

"On Thursday, as secretary of state she had yet another about face in the form of angry messages demanding Israel speed up aid to Gaza. Jewish leaders are furious."

And that's it... they quote all the rants from the jewie jewie people, but can't be bothered to directly quote Clinton's remarks, other than state that she DEMANDED Israel send aid to the civilians they shelled. And I'm sure that if we read her remarks in full, you'll see these "angry" comments aren't angry at all, but rather well reasoned.

Personally, Israel can get stuffed. They go on and on about how Clinton is encouraging Hamas by requesting that Israel act with common decency. But by ignoring the harm they caused to innocent civilians and letting them suffer without aid, they themselves only serve to support Hamas and egg the Palestinians into more bombings.

Hold on, now. I was told extensively that Clinton was Israel's man in Washington during the Democratic primary, and that all the j00z in Florida and New York would vote for McCain over Obama because of it if Clinton didn't get the nod. And then during the general, same thing, about how McCain had 'em locked up since Clinton wasn't the nominee.

My brain hurts.

burndtdan: god forbid someone in washington have a critical word for israel. they're allowed to criticize america (sometimes), but israel is totally off limits.

That.

I got three sentences into a rant about how Israel needs to go fark themselves with a sharp stick after this latest bullshiat, but I am tired and all I will say is that I don't often like Hillary, but sometimes she can kick ass.

Bored Horde: Elements of a flamewar article:

Ok. I have to admit, your post is all win.


✔ Minimal information.

Was ready to post up all the stuff being blocked at the border^{[1] [2] [3] [4]}
or the pertinent Clinton raps Israel for delaying Gaza aid: paper

✔ outraged persons.
All representing one narrow slice of "pro-Israel" or "Jewish ", no less. Thats a heckofa reporting job there, Lou Marcia Kramer. Both of those definitions are wider than that.

✔ Attempts to portray events in a grossly skewed light
Mission accomplished

✔ Having anything to do with Israel/Palestine

I think the primaries seemed to have more argument. It beats these when there aren't any Palestinian representatives to argue with.

burndtdan: god forbid someone in washington have a critical word for israel. they're allowed to criticize america (sometimes), but israel is totally off limits.

You take that back!

Good for her. Israel deserves more criticism than it usually gets.

I used to be indifferent about Israel... but then time after time I see these things come up that look and often are very bad about Israel. Now, I'm not saying this particular thing is a big deal or anything, it's just ridiculous that they're coming off as outraged by criticism. Do they think they are beyond criticism? Hmmm... I think the billions we give them every year entitles our leadership to even more influence than simply a suggestion that they step on the gas towards cleaning up their mess. Personally I would like to see them as eager to clean up their mess as they were to make it. When they can stand on their own two feet without our money, they can be honestly outraged at criticism. But until then, I do believe they can STFU and get to farking work cleaning up their mess.

Outraged... fark that. Keep cashing our checks... biatches... and get back to work.

its like they fired the only reporter and gave the weatherman their workload.

ragekage: Hold on, now. I was told extensively that Clinton was Israel's man in Washington during the Democratic primary

Get ready for your brain hurting more when you find out the splits within what constitutes "pro-Israel."

You'll need to as
Obama: Don't equate 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Likud
Pro-Israel figures on Obama team

And Israel just went hard Likud.

What 'pro-Israeli' means and the dissonance therein between these is coming about in a large part from Israel's recent election of the hard right and our recent elections.

JohnnyC: Good for her. Israel deserves more criticism than it usually gets.

I used to be indifferent about Israel... but then time after time I see these things come up that look and often are very bad about Israel. Now, I'm not saying this particular thing is a big deal or anything, it's just ridiculous that they're coming off as outraged by criticism. Do they think they are beyond criticism? Hmmm... I think the billions we give them every year entitles our leadership to even more influence than simply a suggestion that they step on the gas towards cleaning up their mess. Personally I would like to see them as eager to clean up their mess as they were to make it. When they can stand on their own two feet without our money, they can be honestly outraged at criticism. But until then, I do believe they can STFU and get to farking work cleaning up their mess.

Outraged... fark that. Keep cashing our checks... biatches... and get back to work.

T to the H to the Farking I-S.


I have yet to hear a good reason why all our politicians fall all over themselves to prove what a friend they are to Israel, when all Israel has ever done for us is to spy on us, steal our nuclear secrets (when they were actually secret), stir up all kinds of schitt in the region that we have to go try to solve, and generally be a muthafukcin' pain in our ass.

Fukc 'em. I say good on Hillary.

But what were the flipping remarks? Jesus this is amateur hour.

Bored Horde: Who the fark is this woman? Why does her opinion matter?

I guess you might say she's feeling a biatchafed? :D

As for TFA, they list up various things Hillary Clinton did that they didn't like when she was there as First Lady, and it's well known that people who don't like negotiations didn't like negotations when Bill Clinton was involved either, so where's the huge turn-around?

Sure, there were (are!) people who think Obama is going to be the end of Israel, absolutely wouldn't vote for him and put stickers saying essentially "move to Israel now in case Obama wins it" on their bumpers during the election, so maybe at THAT point they were looking at Hillary with rose colored glasses on for a while, but... I just don't see a huge change.

Plus, she's Secretary of State, so she has to support the positions of the Obama administration. Obama is going to take a different line from Bush, he made that clear, so I guess it's just "okay, you don't like her, meh, but where's the surprise here?"

ragekage: Hold on, now.

related
Lieberman's Rise Could Strain Relations With U.S.
(No, the other Lieberman)


Jewish Leaders Largely Silent on Lieberman's Role In Government
But One Prominent U.S. Rabbi Criticizes 'Hate-Filled Campaign'


Politically trapped, Benjamin Netanyahu desperately wants his rivals to join him in the new Israeli government so they can protect him from American pressure to make peace

Benevolent Misanthrope: I have yet to hear a good reason why all our politicians fall all over themselves to prove what a friend they are to Israel, when all Israel has ever done for us is to spy on us, steal our nuclear secrets (when they were actually secret), stir up all kinds of schitt in the region that we have to go try to solve, and generally be a muthafukcin' pain in our ass.

Because we give Israel billions of dollars per year, certain groups give millions of dollars to re-election campaigns. Sure, it's not a very good deal for the U.S. taxpayer, but it *is* a really inept form of money laundering.

Yes, Congress is in effect stealing our money so they can get re-elected, but what they lack in intelligence they more than make up for in volume.

/I completely support free trade with Israel, but I don't like gifts, grants, or subsidies to foreign countries.

Has anyone mentioned that everyone criticizing Israel here is an anti-Semite? Because everyone criticizing Israel here is an anti-Semite.

/Whup on 'em, Hill. They've gotten off far too easy for far too long.
//I'm digging her as SecState so far.

Everyone knows Israel is flawless.

cretinbob: Israel should DIAF

You know who else thought the Jews...ah fark it.

What's this? Hillary Clinton may not want to blow Israel's collective cock? I am appalled by this. Clearly, the only real American stance is to support every single action of Israel.

Snarfangel: Benevolent Misanthrope: I have yet to hear a good reason why all our politicians fall all over themselves to prove what a friend they are to Israel, when all Israel has ever done for us is to spy on us, steal our nuclear secrets (when they were actually secret), stir up all kinds of schitt in the region that we have to go try to solve, and generally be a muthafukcin' pain in our ass.

Because we give Israel billions of dollars per year, certain groups give millions of dollars to re-election campaigns. Sure, it's not a very good deal for the U.S. taxpayer, but it *is* a really inept form of money laundering.

Yes, Congress is in effect stealing our money so they can get re-elected, but what they lack in intelligence they more than make up for in volume.

/I completely support free trade with Israel, but I don't like gifts, grants, or subsidies to foreign countries.

I know. But what gets me is, if I were to write my Congressman and say, "Stop accepting money from Jewish groups in exchange for your vote on pro-Israel matters", I would be labeled an anti-Semite by my best friend, who happens to be Jewish.

cretinbob: Israel should DIAF

Way too easy...........

My plan: Put Jerusalem under control of a government run by atheists. Everyone hates us already, and we don't give a shiat if we upset any religion, so we can tell people who fight over an old rock or whatever to go pound sand.

GoDawgs!: cretinbob: Israel should DIAF

You know who else thought the Jews...ah fark it.

I said Israel, not Jews.

Of course the wacko Christian plan IS that Israel dies in a fire, but that's a different story.

The Icelander: My plan: Put Jerusalem under control of a government run by atheists. Everyone hates us already, and we don't give a shiat if we upset any religion, so we can tell people who fight over an old rock or whatever to go pound sand.

That would be OK except for the fact that some factions like to strap pipe bombs to themselves when you tell them that, so you're gonna need to be able to back up your words.

So in the end it will be Atheists instead of Israelis getting killed by the suicide bombers and Qassam rockets. Don't see any downsides to this plan of yours.

You know what's funny? There's a lot of people in here(and soon to be here when this hits the main page) that are hating on Israel. Most of you are liberals or leftists. Here's a little something for y'all to think about:

Do any of you drink? Do any of you do drugs? Are any of you females that dare to work outside the house, walk around with men who aren't relatives or stand up for yourselves in any capacity? Are any of you homosexual? Have any of you ever had sex outside of marriage? Guess what? The poor little Palestinians you're defending will quite literally KILL YOU for engaging in any of those activities or behaviors. Do any of you live in New York? Were you affected by the 9/11 attacks? Guess who was cheering those attacks(and to the idiots who say we deserved those attacks because of what our government does, why are the terrorists who are pissed off at our government attacking innocent civilians)?

Israel isn't perfect. And they might not always do the right thing, but they didn't cheer for our misery(they wholeheartedly supported us) and they also have human/women/gay rights. So, please let that sink into your little pointed heads while you think about this: Who would you rather be the dominant force in the middle-east?

cretinbob: Of course the wacko Christian plan IS that Israel dies in a fire, but that's a different story.

You know wrote it?
Thats right the joooooooos

/or ex joooos, depending on if its on books like Daniel or Revelations.. or authorship arguments.. or..

PacManDreaming: You know what's funny? There's a lot of people in here(and soon to be here when this hits the main page) that are hating on Israel. Most of you are liberals or leftists.

Thanks for proving our point - that no legitimate criticism of Israel can be allowed, and that it will all be labelled "hate."

kmmontandon: PacManDreaming: You know what's funny? There's a lot of people in here(and soon to be here when this hits the main page) that are hating on Israel. Most of you are liberals or leftists.

Thanks for proving our point - that no legitimate criticism of Israel can be allowed, and that it will all be labelled "hate."

Pretty much this. I ain't a fan of either side, really. They all retaliate against the stupidest things the other side does and want to claim being the "victim". I say, reflood the Middle East- too bad God promised he wouldn't do that again.

Although, come to think of it, if I remember my Genesis, he only promised not to reflood the entire world. Maybe he'd reconsider a specific geographic location.

PacManDreaming: but they didn't cheer for our misery

The last time I saw this, the thread went here 10:08:30 PM

Of course, your point isn't really going to be predicated on celebratory gestures. Pointing out celebratory gestures from some Israelis (or Palestinians) here isn't really going to. It should point out how there are more options than the Manichean dichotomy you present.

PacManDreaming: You know what's funny? There's a lot of people in here(and soon to be here when this hits the main page) that are hating on Israel. Most of you are liberals or leftists. Here's a little something for y'all to think about:

Do any of you drink? Do any of you do drugs? Are any of you females that dare to work outside the house, walk around with men who aren't relatives or stand up for yourselves in any capacity? Are any of you homosexual? Have any of you ever had sex outside of marriage? Guess what? The poor little Palestinians Republicans you're defending will quite literally KILL YOU for engaging in any of those activities or behaviors. Do any of you live in New York? Were you affected by the 9/11 attacks? Guess who was cheering those attacks(and to the idiots who say we deserved those attacks because of what our government does, why are the terrorists who are pissed off at our government attacking innocent civilians)?

Israel isn't perfect. And they might not always do the right thing, but they didn't cheer for our misery(they wholeheartedly supported us) and they also have human/women/gay rights. So, please let that sink into your little pointed heads while you think about this: Who would you rather be the dominant force in the middle-east?

My statement has just as much credibility as yours.

/sweeping generalizations that have no basis in reality make you sound LESS intelligent.

PacManDreaming: You know what's funny? There's a lot of people in here(and soon to be here when this hits the main page) that are hating on Israel. Most of you are liberals or leftists. Here's a little something for y'all to think about:

I hope you don't think I hate Israel. I wish Israel all the best, and I completely support free trade with them, as well as sharing intelligence of equal value. I just don't want the United States to spend tax dollars to support another government, no matter how wonderful, when the same dollars would help here at home.

Snarfangel: (to PacManDreaming)
I hope you don't think I hate Israel.

I don't think there are people here that "hate" Israel. Using this as a bludgeon is about as useful as labeling those who criticize US policies as "hating America."
We've seen enough of that political ploy on the run up to Iraq.

Dear subby,
Voicing criticism is not anti-Israel.
Go ufark yourself.

Party Boy: Benjamin Netanyahu desperately wants his rivals to join him in the new Israeli government so they can protect him from American pressure to make peace

Netanyahu wants everything but peace.

PacManDreaming: The poor little Palestinians you're defending will quite literally KILL YOU for engaging in any of those activities or behaviors.

You mean Christian and Jewish Palestinians, together a sizable minority, would punish someone for drinking? You mean non-observant Moslem Palestinians, like the late Yasser Arafat, who are huge chunk of the population, would give a flying fark about where women work? Oh, yeah, Arafat's wife? A Christian.

kmmontandon: Because that's what we're supposed to call people who criticize Israel. At all. For anything.

The gratifying thing is that they more they try to pull this, the less effective it gets.

The sad thing is that it undermines legitimate concerns in some parts of the world (not just the middle east) about anti-semitism.

Fark Israel. We need to cut them off.

/fark Israel

Benevolent Misanthrope:

I have yet to hear a good reason why all our politicians fall all over themselves to prove what a friend they are to Israel, when all Israel has ever done for us is to spy on us, steal our nuclear secrets (when they were actually secret), stir up all kinds of schitt in the region that we have to go try to solve, and generally be a muthafukcin' pain in our ass.

Fukc 'em. I say good on Hillary.


"best" and only answer I've heard is the whole rapture thing associated with them. That's it! It's purely a religious reason why we support them. It's farking insane. Hitler could run Israel and we'd pay him.

Crosshair: So in the end it will be Atheists instead of Israelis getting killed by the suicide bombers and Qassam rockets. Don't see any downsides to this plan of yours.

Crosshair supports killing Atheists. That's hate speech. Ban and ignore this mofo.

PacManDreaming: Do any of you drink? Do any of you do drugs? Are any of you females that dare to work outside the house, walk around with men who aren't relatives or stand up for yourselves in any capacity? Are any of you homosexual? Have any of you ever had sex outside of marriage? Guess what? The poor little Palestinians you're defending will quite literally KILL YOU for engaging in any of those activities or behaviors.

So would the Orthodox Jews, if they had the chance. In fact, the Torah has all sorts of offenses (like wearing clothes make from more than one type of thread) which are punishable by death.

Your point?

Bored Horde: Fast zombies are cooler.

good DAY to you sir!

Okay, let's get farking real here...

Israel is a major ally of the US. This is in part due to structural constraints. The US wants to have political power in the middle eats, Israel wants to have political power in the middle east, so we trade alliance for power. Israel's problem is essentially: a. moral conviction and outrage over its apparently divinely ordrained holy land and right to Jerusalem, and b. everyone farking hates Israel in that region. I don't want the Jews to DIAF or some kind of ridiculous crap like that, but I do think eventually we will need to solve this and that will probably involve compromise even if the situation was initially set up poorly and the fault lies with us idiot anglos. What we need to do is give the Palestinians some land, set up the two nations as existing in moral equivalency, or even Israel in superiority if necessary, and sap both parties of the political capital and subjective sense of right to continue the conflict. Being hawkish and blowing a bunch of "they challenge the Jews' right to exist" or "Palestine can't exist if Israel exists" out of your ass obviously isn't going to solve much (not to say this describes all parties), but the issue here is essentially one of stripping both parties of the political capital and inter-subjective sense of rightfulness in their struggle to fight, which probably means some sort of compromise that seems equitiable but both are biatchy about.

/Seriously, I just want them both to be OK. They're both human and I'm not so farking wacked as to start attributing tags of "evil" and that there is no helping them.

PacManDreaming: The poor little Palestiniansmembers of Hamas you're defending will quite literally KILL YOU for engaging in any of those activities or behaviors.

FTFY.

/also, we're not defending terrorists.

Dirty Hot Linker:
Hitler could run Israel and we'd pay him.

I'd pay for a Hitler to run Israel. It would tie up all the loose ends between Germany and the Jews, have a huge irony factor, and hopefully a Hitler wouldn't take any shiat from an upstart minority group with rocket launchers.

It would look nice in the history books, too:

Adolf Hitler kills the Jews.
Israel is founded by the Jews.
Jews show forgiveness by electing _____ Hitler to lead them.

fark Israel. With friends like Israel, who needs enemies?