I say we let the South go this time and not put up so much of a fight. Who would care? Really?

Thank god these people aren't running the white house and congress right now.

Sometimes you have to feel for these guys, Gov. Sanford needs the money but his rabid base won't allow it.

Poor bastard was pwned badly by Gov. Granholm on Fox Sunday.

So southern states stick with being regular welfare queens, instead of supersized ones?

For joy.

Karma Chameleon: I say we let the South go this time and not put up so much of a fight. Who would care? Really?

I certainly wouldn't.

/ in GA. Don't really need CA (or NY or wth rest of the socialist world.

Old Civil War: North vs. South
New Civil War: Smart vs. South

they really shouldn't be allowed to reject the money in some cases.

Or is it spite?

Thing is, their spite is only affecting their constituency. So this should have advantageous repercussions (for the Democrats, that is) in the next election cycle.

/looking forward to the assignment of blame when the next bridge collapses
//science forbid...

Etchy333: Old Civil War: NorthSmart vs. South
New Civil War: Smart vs. South

ftfy

sloppy shoes: they really shouldn't be allowed to reject the money in some cases.

Hell, a part of me is glad they're doing it. Maybe it'll get that nut Jindal out of power.

stazz: Karma Chameleon: I say we let the South go this time and not put up so much of a fight. Who would care? Really?

I certainly wouldn't.

/ in GA. Don't really need CA (or NY or wth rest of the socialist world.

Good work getting Mississippi to help you the next floods or droughts.

WFern: ...The governor said he was "feeling good" after several late night sessions with California lawmakers trying to pass the budget. "I think everyone had to stay up late a little bit, but we were able to make it work," he said...

is that Memeasaur the pokemon?

There's a flip side to this debate that's being constructed. States that don't accept the money should be able to step aside when it comes time to pay the bill. I can guarantee you this will create a schism, with any number of likely outcomes. None of them are good.

If I thought the states had any chance of winning this argument without seceding (no money/no pay), I would want Texas to opt out of the stimulus money.

Isn't there a provision in the bill which allows the state legislatures to approve the money? So this is all BS political grandstanding, amirite?

stazz: / in GA. Don't really need CA

So, you like that internet you're using? What about all the stuff that you get from China? Which ports do you think it has to pass through to get to your Wal-Mart?

I don't mean to be mean, but the silicon valley in GA is just the place where people dump their used silicon.

Peter von Nostrand: Isn't there a provision in the bill which allows the state legislatures to approve the money? So this is all BS political grandstanding, amirite?

They can request it; a governor would still have to sign the budget.

holiday_inn_in_cambodia: is that Memeasaur the pokemon?

Not a clue. It's apparently a 4chan meme that made me laugh.

WFern: holiday_inn_in_cambodia: is that Memeasaur the pokemon?

Not a clue. It's apparently a 4chan meme that made me laugh.

yes its a /b/ meme but the original is just a frog, not the pokemon thing youve got going on there. still not as good a meme as raging

india did what

cut taxes
cut Government
cut Regulations

in the 90's and grew to the power house it is today. They are even building 3 aircraft carriers

we are

raising taxes
adding government
adding regulations

this will not end well

time to sell stocks, baby its time to sell

sloppy shoes: Peter von Nostrand: Isn't there a provision in the bill which allows the state legislatures to approve the money? So this is all BS political grandstanding, amirite?

They can request it; a governor would still have to sign the budget.

That provision was added so the republican governors can have an out. If they refuse to sign budgets with the money used, I can safely assume that the democrats will hold little back in attacking them. Democrats once again be gentlemanly to the republicans, and if the republicans don't take it, I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't answered kindly this time.

WFern: Hell, a part of me is glad they're doing it. Maybe it'll get that nut Jindal out of power.

Nope. He's in till he runs for President. Then all the whacky shiat that he's done in the past will suddenly become front page news, once he's safely won the nomination. Legions of voters will suddenly read the front page, say "WTF are the Republicans thinking?", and Obama wins term II. Even if we're all standing in bread lines or selling apples on the corner, Jindal is unelectable.

holiday_inn_in_cambodia: WFern: holiday_inn_in_cambodia: is that Memeasaur the pokemon?

Not a clue. It's apparently a 4chan meme that made me laugh.

yes its a /b/ meme but the original is just a frog, not the pokemon thing youve got going on there. still not as good a meme as raging

It's from a pretty decent weird webcomic whose name I don't remember. Full thing has a wolf-guy walking in the the frog-man sitting down on the toilet and peeing. Later, while playing video games, the wolf-guy says, "So, you sit down when you pee?" and the frog says, "Yeah. Feels good man."

sloppy shoes: Peter von Nostrand: Isn't there a provision in the bill which allows the state legislatures to approve the money? So this is all BS political grandstanding, amirite?

They can request it; a governor would still have to sign the budget.

I'm sure the lege's would tell them they're f'n crazy and approve the money. The governor will then just say he tried to do what's right and got overruled and oh by the way I'm running for POTUS in '12.

Anyone remember back during the New Deal, when coal company executives argued at a Congressional hearing that it was a waste of time and money to invest in bringing hydroelectric power to the South, because Southerners didn't want electricity?

winterwhile: in the 90's and grew to the power house it is today.

love the "powerhouse" where more then half the population lives in abject poverty, eh?

winterwhile: They are even building 3 aircraft carriers

Always gotta compare dicks to judge yourself?

winterwhile: raising taxes
adding government
adding regulations

The recent stim cut taxes, Obama wants to cut government and regulations back by all indications.

You're not just a schmuck, but a LYING schmuck.

winterwhile: time to sell stocks, baby its time to sell

Because as we know, the Stock Market has NEVER EVER EVER come back from a down period. EVER. It never goes up! NEVER. Especially when a democrat in the white house!

saintstryfe:
That provision was added so the republican governors can have an out. If they refuse to sign budgets with the money used, I can safely assume that the democrats will hold little back in attacking them. Democrats once again be gentlemanly to the republicans, and if the republicans don't take it, I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't answered kindly this time.

I believe it was added because some governors were going to refuse to request it, actually. But if recent examples in Cali or Mich are any examples, both parties are quite willing to remain stubborn and potentiomally stop the government if necessary.

Etchy333: stazz: / in GA. Don't really need CA

So, you like that internet you're using? What about all the stuff that you get from China? Which ports do you think it has to pass through to get to your Wal-Mart?



Savannah, Norfolk, Charleston, Wilmington

Those 4 ports have as many imports from China as all the ports on the entire West Coast. It's cheaper to have ships take the cargo closer to it's final destination then it is to send it to CA then truck/train it clear across the country.

stazz: I certainly wouldn't.

/ in GA. Don't really need CA (or NY or wth rest of the socialist world.

you mean socialist as in the fact that most of these blue states put in more tax money than they get in federal funds. Socialist as in red southern states, who get more fed dollars than its citizens pay in Taxes?

/you mean that kind of welfare socialist states?

winterwhile: india did what

cut taxes
cut Government
cut Regulations

in the 90's and grew to the power house it is today. They are even building 3 aircraft carriers

we are

raising taxes
adding government
adding regulations

this will not end well

time to sell stocks, baby its time to sell

what the fark? I lived in India for six years, last time I was there was in 2006. I wouldn't recommend that shiathole for anyone. Seriously you are comparing these two countries is foolish. The poor are getting worse while the rich fat cats are prospering abundantly.

stazz: Karma Chameleon: I say we let the South go this time and not put up so much of a fight. Who would care? Really?

I certainly wouldn't.

/ in GA. Don't really need CA (or NY or wth rest of the socialist world.

Fine, we're taking our Silicon Valley, Disneyland, Stanford, beaches, Yosemite, USC, most of your vegetables, largest port and naval base on the west coast, wine, good weed, sixth largest economy in the world, and we'll just go stay home then.

/ in CA.
// CA is farked up
/// but it's better than GA

Peter von Nostrand: sloppy shoes: Peter von Nostrand: Isn't there a provision in the bill which allows the state legislatures to approve the money? So this is all BS political grandstanding, amirite?

They can request it; a governor would still have to sign the budget.

I'm sure the lege's would tell them they're f'n crazy and approve the money. The governor will then just say he tried to do what's right and got overruled and oh by the way I'm running for POTUS in '12.

Not in the more republican states with the media machine beating down their backs. Look at Cali- they took forever to get a required two thirds majority even with a supportive governor to take the fall. I'm guessing most states wouldn't be able to override a veto.

Karma Chameleon: I say we let the South go this time and not put up so much of a fight. Who would care? Really?

Fine, we keep Ft. Benning, Ft. Bragg, Ft. Stewart, Hunter Airbase, Ft. Polk, Ft. Campbell, Ft. Knox, Camp Lejuene, Paris Island, Ft. Hood, Ft. Bliss, Ft. Sill, Ft. Sam Houston, Ft. Jackson, Key West Naval Station....Need I go on?

This is the trouble with politicians and their approach to economy of truth.

If you listen to the experts outside of the political forum, it's pretty clear that these politically independent experts are somewhere between worried and very, very worried.

Politicians, otoh - not subject to the glare of a public seeking truth - have nothing to gain, and everything to lose, by criticizing their constituents. So, instead they criticize "the other side." Somewhere along the line "the other side" has stopped meaning "the incorrect side" and come to mean "people who don't vote for, or with, me."

To me, the gop seem to be the experts in this area. Clearly incorrect positions are swallowed by gop supporters hook, line and sinker. The denials of global warming stand out, but it is a problem across the board with the gop. As such, it is easy to establish a position against the stimulus, based on nothing more than thin air and denial of the problem.

It's a shame, of course, but nothing is perfect! We're a population of fools, idiots and charlatans. We just have to a little bit less foolish, idiotic, and, err, hmm, thingy, than those who put party before truth

winterwhile: india did what

cut taxes
cut Government
cut Regulations

in the 90's and grew to the power house it is today. They are even building 3 aircraft carriers

we are

raising taxes
adding government
adding regulations

this will not end well

time to sell stocks, baby its time to sell

Funny, we did the same thing in the 90's, and look where we are now.

By all means, head on over to India if it's a capitalist's dream. I mean, you're in no way glossing over an enourmous-farking-amount of details, nuance, reality, etc, just in order to make a talking point already thoroughly debunked.

IStateTheObvious: Savannah, Norfolk, Charleston, Wilmington

Those 4 ports have as many imports from China as all the ports on the entire West Coast. It's cheaper to have ships take the cargo closer to it's final destination then it is to send it to CA then truck/train it clear across the country.

so they either go the long way under africa and cross he atlantic to get there so they don't have to ship in trucks, or they go the short way via the pacific and then cross to the other side of the continent via the panama canal so they don't have to ship in trucks?

/that doesn't make any sense.

globalwarmingpraiser: Karma Chameleon: I say we let the South go this time and not put up so much of a fight. Who would care? Really?

Fine, we keep Ft. Benning, Ft. Bragg, Ft. Stewart, Hunter Airbase, Ft. Polk, Ft. Campbell, Ft. Knox, Camp Lejuene, Paris Island, Ft. Hood, Ft. Bliss, Ft. Sill, Ft. Sam Houston, Ft. Jackson, Key West Naval Station....Need I go on?

Please do. The defense budget is in dire need of slashing.

Never realized that so many famous military bases are in the South. And the South is considered backwards. There has to be a connection.

So I'm watching Fareed's CNN and he had a roundtable with two Nobel Economic Laureates and another that is probably going to win one (according to Fareed) and they were all in agreement how absolutely stupid it is to not prevent the states from laying off their workers as a first priority.

In the words of one of them, we are going to stimulate by building roads while the states destimulate by cutting government jobs.

They all thought the stimulus should be longer term in focus and larger in size and scope with more emphasis on states.

How about we just wall off Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Arkansas?

We could re-name it "Real America" and encourage all the wingnuts, freepers, and survivalists to establish their own government there.

Check back after a few years and I'm sure it would look like something out of a Cormac McCarthy novel.

RemyDuron: yes its a /b/ meme but the original is just a frog, not the pokemon thing youve got going on there. still not as good a meme as raging

It's from a pretty decent weird webcomic whose name I don't remember. Full thing has a wolf-guy walking in the the frog-man sitting down on the toilet and peeing. Later, while playing video games, the wolf-guy says, "So, you sit down when you pee?" and the frog says, "Yeah. Feels good man."

RemyDuron: yes its a /b/ meme but the original is just a frog, not the pokemon thing youve got going on there. still not as good a meme as raging

It's from a pretty decent weird webcomic whose name I don't remember. Full thing has a wolf-guy walking in the the frog-man sitting down on the toilet and peeing. Later, while playing video games, the wolf-guy says, "So, you sit down when you pee?" and the frog says, "Yeah. Feels good man."

God bless Encyclopedia Dramatica. (pops - NSFW)

IStateTheObvious: Savannah, Norfolk, Charleston, Wilmington

Those 4 ports have as many imports from China as all the ports on the entire West Coast. It's cheaper to have ships take the cargo closer to it's final destination then it is to send it to CA then truck/train it clear across the country.

Ok, I suck at international trade, but there's no denying that a lot of cool stuff you use everyday comes out of CA.

globalwarmingpraiser: Karma Chameleon: I say we let the South go this time and not put up so much of a fight. Who would care? Really?

Fine, we keep Ft. Benning, Ft. Bragg, Ft. Stewart, Hunter Airbase, Ft. Polk, Ft. Campbell, Ft. Knox, Camp Lejuene, Paris Island, Ft. Hood, Ft. Bliss, Ft. Sill, Ft. Sam Houston, Ft. Jackson, Key West Naval Station....Need I go on?

Hey, this is a fun game. Sure, keep 'em and pay the Federal Government full value for those properties, and you don't get any hardware paid for by the federal government, and you have to pay back the federal government for any infrastructure they paid for, etc, etc.

Give it a break. The entire south takes more in Federal dollars than they give back in SPADES.

winterwhile time to sell stocks, baby its time to sell


sell low. this advice brought to you by the economic titans of the republican party.

sloppy shoes: Peter von Nostrand: sloppy shoes: Peter von Nostrand: Isn't there a provision in the bill which allows the state legislatures to approve the money? So this is all BS political grandstanding, amirite?

They can request it; a governor would still have to sign the budget.

I'm sure the lege's would tell them they're f'n crazy and approve the money. The governor will then just say he tried to do what's right and got overruled and oh by the way I'm running for POTUS in '12.

Not in the more republican states with the media machine beating down their backs. Look at Cali- they took forever to get a required two thirds majority even with a supportive governor to take the fall. I'm guessing most states wouldn't be able to override a veto.

I don't know, Perry is taking a beating for saying he might not take the money. Much more than Hutchison for not voting for it.

Karma Chameleon: globalwarmingpraiser: Karma Chameleon: I say we let the South go this time and not put up so much of a fight. Who would care? Really?

Fine, we keep Ft. Benning, Ft. Bragg, Ft. Stewart, Hunter Airbase, Ft. Polk, Ft. Campbell, Ft. Knox, Camp Lejuene, Paris Island, Ft. Hood, Ft. Bliss, Ft. Sill, Ft. Sam Houston, Ft. Jackson, Key West Naval Station....Need I go on?

Please do. The defense budget is in dire need of slashing.

Never realized that so many famous military bases are in the South. And the South is considered backwards. There has to be a connection.

Also several auto manufacturing plants, many major universities, 90% of our current oil production, a decent agricultural base, and plenty of ports. The south would be fine.

bartink: So I'm watching Fareed's CNN and he had a roundtable with two Nobel Economic Laureates and another that is probably going to win one (according to Fareed) and they were all in agreement how absolutely stupid it is to not prevent the states from laying off their workers as a first priority.

In the words of one of them, we are going to stimulate by building roads while the states destimulate by cutting government jobs.

They all thought the stimulus should be longer term in focus and larger in size and scope with more emphasis on states.

Yep. That was a good show today, especially the Chinese and Indian guys explaining why the world wants to work with us. I'm pissed that more economists didn't make a bigger stink about the stimulus though- I totally wanted it more long term oriented but all we heard was garbage. Prominent economists need to join together and form a keynsianedia revolution!

rga184: IStateTheObvious: Savannah, Norfolk, Charleston, Wilmington

Those 4 ports have as many imports from China as all the ports on the entire West Coast. It's cheaper to have ships take the cargo closer to it's final destination then it is to send it to CA then truck/train it clear across the country.

so they either go the long way under africa and cross he atlantic to get there so they don't have to ship in trucks, or they go the short way via the pacific and then cross to the other side of the continent via the panama canal so they don't have to ship in trucks?

/that doesn't make any sense.

Never heard of the Suez Canal?

Source, PDF

ragekage: globalwarmingpraiser: Karma Chameleon: I say we let the South go this time and not put up so much of a fight. Who would care? Really?

Fine, we keep Ft. Benning, Ft. Bragg, Ft. Stewart, Hunter Airbase, Ft. Polk, Ft. Campbell, Ft. Knox, Camp Lejuene, Paris Island, Ft. Hood, Ft. Bliss, Ft. Sill, Ft. Sam Houston, Ft. Jackson, Key West Naval Station....Need I go on?

Hey, this is a fun game. Sure, keep 'em and pay the Federal Government full value for those properties, and you don't get any hardware paid for by the federal government, and you have to pay back the federal government for any infrastructure they paid for, etc, etc.

Give it a break. The entire south takes more in Federal dollars than they give back in SPADES.

Mainly because of those military bases, and they don't count the money from the offshore leases in Louisiana.

RemyDuron: holiday_inn_in_cambodia: WFern: holiday_inn_in_cambodia: is that Memeasaur the pokemon?

Not a clue. It's apparently a 4chan meme that made me laugh.

yes its a /b/ meme but the original is just a frog, not the pokemon thing youve got going on there. still not as good a meme as raging

It's from a pretty decent weird webcomic whose name I don't remember. Full thing has a wolf-guy walking in the the frog-man sitting down on the toilet and peeing. Later, while playing video games, the wolf-guy says, "So, you sit down when you pee?" and the frog says, "Yeah. Feels good man."

Matt Furie (new window, man)

IStateTheObvious: rga184: IStateTheObvious: Savannah, Norfolk, Charleston, Wilmington

Those 4 ports have as many imports from China as all the ports on the entire West Coast. It's cheaper to have ships take the cargo closer to it's final destination then it is to send it to CA then truck/train it clear across the country.

so they either go the long way under africa and cross he atlantic to get there so they don't have to ship in trucks, or they go the short way via the pacific and then cross to the other side of the continent via the panama canal so they don't have to ship in trucks?

/that doesn't make any sense.

Never heard of the Suez Canal?

Source, PDF

Hmm...linky not working. www.china.gaports.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=87uvTr%2F%2Bh0Y%3D&tabid=75&mid= 473