Meh. We'll happily pay it if they actually use it to fix the farking roads properly. Too many municipalities buying the 5-year road instead of the 20-year road.

Well, I don't put whiskey or Winstons into my gas tank to help get to my job.

You get support by promising to raise the tax on somebody else. Smokers, alcoholics, "the rich."

But most of us drive a lot. When politicians raise the cost of an essential part of everyday life for the average person, they hear about it. Soaking drivers is taxing the "middle class" that politicians claim to love. (Speed traps work because they target "them" -- those reckless drivers people love to complain about. When speed cameras enforce the law equally, popular support wanes because speeders are a majority of the population. Not only a majority of drivers, a majority of the 300 million people in the USA.)

I'm going to adopt a horse. They eat grass and in a pitch, you can eat them.

Subby has never been to North Carolina, where we have one of the lowest cigarette taxes in the country, and if they try and raise it all holy hell breaks loose. We like having New Yorkers drop $100 on cartons every time they drive through.

Well, see Cigarettes and Liquor are addictive substances, and the user is compelled to keep buying irrespective of the price and the detriment to their own self and oh I see where you're going with this.

ZAZ: You get support by promising to raise the tax on somebody else. Smokers, alcoholics, "the rich."

But most of us drive a lot. When politicians raise the cost of an essential part of everyday life for the average person, they hear about it. Soaking drivers is taxing the "middle class" that politicians claim to love. (Speed traps work because they target "them" -- those reckless drivers people love to complain about. When speed cameras enforce the law equally, popular support wanes because speeders are a majority of the population. Not only a majority of drivers, a majority of the 300 million people in the USA.)

Excellent post ZAZ. I hereby declare this thread over.

In Colorado they are considering a highly regressive 'registration tax' or taxing you on the miles driven. The mechanics of a gas tax are already in place. Tax the gas. Legalize it, regulate it, and tax the hell out of it.

i don't understand what you don't understand about it.
how many people drink?
how many people smoke cigs?
how many people drive?

okay, just use a cohort of 10
of the 10, how many do each of these things?
let's say 5 drink, 4 smoke, and 8 drive
does this help you?

TripSixes: In Colorado they are considering a highly regressive 'registration tax' or taxing you on the miles driven. The mechanics of a gas tax are already in place. Tax the gas. Legalize it, regulate it, and tax the hell out of it.

Oregon wants to put GPS units on our cars.

/not in this lifetime

GaryPDX: I'm going to adopt a horse. They eat grass and in a pitch, you can eat them.

HA! Horses are a lot more expensive that you think. Vet bills, farrier bills to start with, plus you'll need to buy saddlery and riding lessons, and you can't just "feed them grass" unless you have a TON of acerage. Also, in the winter you need to feed them hay and oats.

You SHOULD feed them oats and bran all the time, if you want high performance.

You should be able to adopt one though- people can't afford them anymore and are releasing them to the ASPCA

/adopted my pony from the ASPCA as a kid
//she went to live on a farm. :(

what_now: GaryPDX: I'm going to adopt a horse. They eat grass and in a pitch, you can eat them.

HA! Horses are a lot more expensive that you think. Vet bills, farrier bills to start with, plus you'll need to buy saddlery and riding lessons, and you can't just "feed them grass" unless you have a TON of acerage. Also, in the winter you need to feed them hay and oats.

You SHOULD feed them oats and bran all the time, if you want high performance.

You should be able to adopt one though- people can't afford them anymore and are releasing them to the ASPCA

/adopted my pony from the ASPCA as a kid
//she went to live on a farm. :(

We have Wild Mustang adoptions for under 400 bucks and they are a breeze to take care of. But I hear you..my step brother has a few race horses.

GaryPDX: race horses.

Oh, well race horses are insane. Unless you mean quarter horses. When buying a horse, much like any animal, a mutt is your best option.

what_now: GaryPDX: race horses.

Oh, well race horses are insane. Unless you mean quarter horses. When buying a horse, much like any animal, a mutt is your best option.

I think they are quarter horses now that you mention it..he runs them in Farmington NM and other low level events.

GaryPDX: he runs them in Farmington NM and other low level events.

I know almost nothing about 1/4 horse racing. I can't really get into thoroughbred racing because of the cruelty involved- most horses aren't treated like Kentucky Derby racers.

/I think 2 years is way to young to be racing horses. they're still babies...:(

soze: Meh. We'll happily pay it if they actually use it to fix the farking roads properly. Too many municipalities buying the 5-year road instead of the 20-year road.

You still think that gas Taxes are used for Roads? If the government Both federal and State used all of the Gas Taxes and other Auto Related Taxation for the Sole Use of Roads We could have Gold Plated lines running down are perfectly manicured lanes never having a pot hole or imperfection anywhere at any time

The difference is that you don't need to smoke or drink in order to live your life but most people in the US rely on a car. Even in urban areas with mass transit you still need a car much of the time.

eddyatwork: The difference is that you don't need to smoke or drink in order to live your life but most people in the US rely on a car. Even in urban areas with mass transit you still need a car much of the time.

smokers and Drinkers would Kindly Dissagree...

As one guy I know stated "Come live with my wife and see if you dont start drinking too"

//I dont Drink

I think they should raise gas taxes now, quickly, before gas goes back up in price, put it into infrastructure and alternative fuels. Does gas really have to be $4, $5 a gallon before people get motivated to stop cum-guzzling the Mideast, and Saudi Arabia in particular? Don't get me wrong, I do believe in green energy and a better environment, but haven't we seen now the implication of what can happen when all your manufacturing base is in China and the fuel that ensures our economy runs at all is supplied almost entirely from OPEC?

The_Ancient

The average American is not a nicotine-addicted alcoholic ("them"). The average American is a driver ("us").

RagingLeonard: Well, I don't put whiskey or Winstons into my gas tank to help get to my job.

Exactly!

what_now: You SHOULD feed them oats and bran all the time, if you want high performance.

Great, so I can't avoid 'high octane' even if I trade from a 300-horsepower to 1-horsepower?

Nah, a gas tax will be relatively safe. They have to tax caffeine to really get a revolution started around here.

somebody has to make up for all the money that the moneychangers have stolen.

instead of wringing it out of these thieves they are gonna steal it from you again.

what a country.

The_Ancient: soze: Meh. We'll happily pay it if they actually use it to fix the farking roads properly. Too many municipalities buying the 5-year road instead of the 20-year road.

You still think that gas Taxes are used for Roads? If the government Both federal and State used all of the Gas Taxes and other Auto Related Taxation for the Sole Use of Roads We could have Gold Plated lines running down are perfectly manicured lanes never having a pot hole or imperfection anywhere at any time

Hey, everyone tells me to get my bicycle off the road because I don't pay gas taxes to maintain them, so should I really expect any different?

But yes, I have dreams. And punctuation.

/btw, most road maintenance comes out of property and sales taxes.

soze:
But yes, I have dreams. And punctuation.

/btw, most road maintenance comes out of property and sales taxes.

It is differant in every state, but Roads are generally funded from the General Fund, All Revenue flows in and out of this fund, Sales, Income, Property, etc all flow in, and then is allocated by the budgeting process. They use this Process to Push for the higher Taxes, because than can spend the money on their Pet welfare projects first then Fund the Needed stuff like Roads, Police, Fire with what is left,

Mandatory Spending is not Roads Police and Fire, this is the Discretionary" Budget How Welfare became "Mandatory Spending" I will never understand. It should be the reverse of that.

In My State the only tax class that is allocated for a purpose is Property Taxes, Which are allocated to Schools with the Remainder flowing in to the Local Government General Funds(which fund city streets).

The_Ancient: It is differant in every state, but Roads are generally funded from the General Fund, All Revenue flows in and out of this fund, Sales, Income, Property, etc all flow in, and then is allocated by the budgeting process.

City, county, and township roads are funded by their respective GRF. State and federal roads are not.

RagingLeonard: Well, I don't put whiskey or Winstons into my gas tank to help get to my job.

Why not? It works for me ....

There is broad support among economists to increase gas taxes, and simultaneously decrease other taxes. Examples: Economic Logic (new window), Greg Mankiw (new window)

FTFA:Patrick said the cost to consumers will be the equivalent of one large cup of coffee a week.

Patrick must think that all consumers buy their coffee at Starbucks with 3 shots of Espresso.

RagingLeonard: Well, I don't put whiskey or Winstons into my gas tank to help get to my job.

I do put whiskey in my tank to get around, but I make it myself from a very common weed, not weed though. :) They can tax gasoline all they want, I don't mind at all since I am not paying for gasoline.

I do however pay road tax, but it is less than the check I get from the IRS for making my own fuel, and it is only for the fuel I actually burn on the highway. Since most of mine goes into my 700 hp drag toy, that gets about 12 mpg on a good day. :)

Keep complaining, but don't actually do anything to make it better for yourself. That is the American way circa 2009

George Will analyzed this over the summer quite well.

We've discovered the price point at which people change their gasoline consumption habits: $4/gal. Put a federal tax on gasoline, adjusted quarterly, to keep the price around that level. That way the US government gets the money, instead of the Saudis, Russians, Venezuelans, et al. Rebate the tax back to the lowest xx% of income earners via the income tax and EITC.

Result: a more efficient vehicle base, more efficient driving & commuting habits, less pollution, and less income for the asshole governments of the world.

Tax everything.

That's a GREAT way to jumpstart the economy.

/ Sarcasm off.
// Seriously - It's hilarious that every time I smoke and drink, I'm supporting the local schools! :D

GaryPDX: TripSixes: In Colorado they are considering a highly regressive 'registration tax' or taxing you on the miles driven. The mechanics of a gas tax are already in place. Tax the gas. Legalize it, regulate it, and tax the hell out of it.

Oregon wants to put GPS units on our cars.

/not in this lifetime

Massachusetts also. And I think one of the new cabinet members suggested it. I think he said they would dump the gas tax and tax us for mileage. Of course I assume they would wait a year before the return of the gas tax.

Singapore has the GPS mileage tax, I believe.

I hate the concept of it. It's exactly the opposite of freedom, and a fine tool for jack-booted thugs.

I would gladly support a 1/10th cent increase just to get that stupid "9/10" thing off the station signs...

Patrick said the cost to consumers will be the equivalent of one large cup of coffee a week.

That is one BIG cup jug of coffee (or someone needs a mental evaluation).

/30 minutes each way = at least a cup or more 2x a day - guy's a loon
//make my own coffee anyhow, would never pay for it like the X did to get a cup of nasty brown stuff

soze: Meh. We'll happily pay it if they actually use it to fix the farking roads properly. Too many municipalities buying the 5-year road instead of the 20-year road.

Exactly.

I hate any kind of tax. Not because it's money out of my pocket (although, as a single parent, I do not have money to be pulling from my pocket), but because the money gets wasted on bullshiat.

If my tax dollars were actually used properly, I would be much happier seeing the deductions on my paycheck (or the raise in gas price in this case). At least then I'd be able to think to myself "Oh good those potholes right near my work will get fixed."

Tell the officials to fark themselves. Lower their paychecks, bonuses, golden parachutes and put that against the tax increases.

It's a fair bet that most people who smoke and drink also buy gas, while the inverse is not necessarily true.

50 cents a gallon covers our yearly expenses in Iraq. So we need AT LEAST that much of a tax. And it'll have to continue for 5 years after we get out of there too.

If you are charging the taxes as cents-per-gallon you will inevitably have to increase the number of cents to keep up with inflation.

In addition to inflation, you have to adjust for the changing efficiencies. I don't know if there's an official metric, but there has to be some measurement of weight/axles/tonnage/mileage to describe how much in fuel taxes a driver pays for how much use he gets. Hmm, if it's not out there I could write the paper.

Fano: GaryPDX: TripSixes: In Colorado they are considering a highly regressive 'registration tax' or taxing you on the miles driven. The mechanics of a gas tax are already in place. Tax the gas. Legalize it, regulate it, and tax the hell out of it.

Oregon wants to put GPS units on our cars.

/not in this lifetime

Massachusetts also. And I think one of the new cabinet members suggested it. I think he said they would dump the gas tax and tax us for mileage. Of course I assume they would wait a year before the return of the gas tax.

Singapore has the GPS mileage tax, I believe.

I hate the concept of it. It's exactly the opposite of freedom, and a fine tool for jack-booted thugs.

You're free to walk. I don't see anything in the Constitution about you having a right to a car.

IdeasGuy: There is broad support among economists to increase gas taxes, and simultaneously decrease other taxes. Examples: Economic Logic (new window), Greg Mankiw (new window)

you forgot part two...

There is broad support among politicians to increase gas taxes, and simultaneously increase other taxes.

shouldn't this be a pot thread?
/leaving disapointed

Gas taxes are easy to dodge. Just drive a car that's less of a guzzler.


Vanetia: If my tax dollars were actually used properly, I would be much happier seeing the deductions on my paycheck (or the raise in gas price in this case). At least then I'd be able to think to myself "Oh good those potholes right near my work will get fixed


If you don't pay gas taxes, the money goes to the Venzuelean government.

America has got to stop consuming gas for ECONOMIC reasons.

Of course Americans would much rather here Bush's claim that the best thing they can do to help the country is go shopping.

I don't mind the liquor tax, because it doesn't take me two gallons of Jack Daniels just to get to work and back.

AuCinaoaMie: Keep complaining, but don't actually do anything to make it better for yourself. That is the American way circa 2009Gen-X

Fixed.

/feeling awfully cynical today

Funny to hear people whine about high taxes just a few days after Congress passes the biggest tax cut in history.

ilambiquated: America has got to stop consuming gas for ECONOMIC SECURITY reasons.

ghare: Fano: GaryPDX: TripSixes: In Colorado they are considering a highly regressive 'registration tax' or taxing you on the miles driven. The mechanics of a gas tax are already in place. Tax the gas. Legalize it, regulate it, and tax the hell out of it.

Oregon wants to put GPS units on our cars.

/not in this lifetime

Massachusetts also. And I think one of the new cabinet members suggested it. I think he said they would dump the gas tax and tax us for mileage. Of course I assume they would wait a year before the return of the gas tax.

Singapore has the GPS mileage tax, I believe.

I hate the concept of it. It's exactly the opposite of freedom, and a fine tool for jack-booted thugs.

You're free to walk. I don't see anything in the Constitution about you having a right to a car.

Bill of Rights, Ninth amendment.