T shirt, please.

Now?

FTFA While legalizing marijuana is not a majority or a plurality position at this time, it is very close to becoming one. Not only do the long-term trendlines show a dramatic shift in favor of legalization, but a majority of the population under the age of 40 is already in favor of legalization. As such, despite no major political leaders advocating on behalf of it, right now it is only a matter of time--perhaps less than a decade--before legalizing marijuana becomes a majority position nationwide.

It should also be noted that, at 40-41% support, legalizing marijuana is more popular than all of the following:

--Opposing stricter gun control laws (40%)
--Congress (26-40%)
--The war in Iraq (39%)
--Decreasing immigration levels (39%)
--Privatizing Social Security (36%)
--Opposing investigating the Bush administration (34%)
--Opposing national, government run health insurance (32%)
--Vetoing stem cell research (31%)
--The Republican Party (31%)
--Dick Cheney (30%)
--George W. Bush (24-34%)
--Decreasing business regulations (28%)
--Rush Limbaugh (28%)
--Mitch McConnell (22%)
--Preventing the openly gay from serving in the military (17%)
--John Boehner (17%)

In short, legalizing marijuana is more popular than the Republican Party, most leading Republicans, and virtually the entire Republican platform.

/in hopes this thread heats up.
//+1

Spliffy?

snocone: T shirt, please.

This.

Great article.

I had this conversation with dad yesterday - he opposes legalizing cannabis for no other reason than because he hates pot smoking hippies. I pointed out that it's not addictive (caffeine and tobacco are more addictive), that it has many medical uses, can be used as a biofuel, textile product and food crop. none of that made a difference. he hates pot smoking hippies, so he adamantly opposes legalization. I asked him if he realized that he's completely rejecting scientific fact and that he supported a law passed on the word of a man who perjured himself before congress....he said he didn't care.

RoxtarRyan: Spliffy?

Damn, too slow again.

Weaver95: I had this conversation with dad yesterday - he opposes legalizing cannabis for no other reason than because he hates pot smoking hippies. I pointed out that it's not addictive (caffeine and tobacco are more addictive), that it has many medical uses, can be used as a biofuel, textile product and food crop. none of that made a difference. he hates pot smoking hippies, so he adamantly opposes legalization. I asked him if he realized that he's completely rejecting scientific fact and that he supported a law passed on the word of a man who perjured himself before congress....he said he didn't care.

If he's over 60, that's probably to be expected. I guess he can just wallow in his righteousness and pain and nausea when he ends up with cancer down the road.

bqad720: If he's over 60, that's probably to be expected. I guess he can just wallow in his righteousness and pain and nausea when he ends up with cancer down the road.

I would rather not have someone wish a horrific death on my father, thank you very much. Besides, diabetes kills all of us not cancer.

I'm just saddened that Dad calcified his thinking. Time and time again, i've given him study after study after study that proves cannabis SHOULD be legalized. we'd save money on prison costs, be able to focus on drugs that are actually dangerous, open up several new economic sectors and create jobs in the textiles, medical and agricultural sectors (not to mention sales and distribution)....all the evidence of all the benefits with very little harm to society, all that science....he just ignored it. Just ignored it.

Mind boggling.

Weaver95: I had this conversation with dad yesterday - he opposes legalizing cannabis for no other reason than because he hates pot smoking hippies.

My dad used to make a similar argument, only not quite so well thought out.

He opposed legalization because "pot smokers are criminals."

Seriously. I am not kidding. That was his argument.

(I pointed out that if pot wasn't illegal, they wouldn't be criminals, but he was not swayed by that argument one bit. "Criminality" was apparently an essential trait that had nothing to do with the legality or illegality of one's actions.)

Weaver95: it's not addictive

this is a popular misconception.

Even so, legalize it anyway...for medical use at the very least.

Meh. I gave both of them up in college.

Weaver95: Mind boggling.


There was a pretty good article in the paper here a few years back. The typical sentence handed down to someone guilty of selling pot was nearly always harsher than the sentence handed down for molesting a child. Also, only the pot dealers were denied bail...

Weaver95: I had this conversation with dad yesterday - he opposes legalizing cannabis for no other reason than because he hates pot smoking hippies.

I've had this SAME discussion with my father, who has ruined his liver and his marriage and given himself type 2 diabetes because of his 9-12 cans of miller lite a day habit.

Druggies are criminal scum, you know.

Isotope: this is a popular misconception.


I didn't get addicted when I smoked it all through college and then quit, just like that! to enter the working world.

None of my friends were addicted either. I guess we're all just special...

Isotope: Weaver95: it's not addictive

this is a popular misconception.

Even so, legalize it anyway...for medical use at the very least.

um...it's not addictive. put someone in a PET scanner and have them smoke a joint and none of the 'hey i'm addicted' centers of the brain light up. Have them drink a cup of coffee tho....

Isotope this is a popular misconception.^{[citation needed]}

source(s)?

what_now: Weaver95: I had this conversation with dad yesterday - he opposes legalizing cannabis for no other reason than because he hates pot smoking hippies.

I've had this SAME discussion with my father, who has ruined his liver and his marriage and given himself type 2 diabetes because of his 9-12 cans of miller lite a day habit.

Druggies are criminal scum, you know.

I pointed out to Dad that cannabis can be made into a drug that just obliterates MRSA infections AND makes you feel good while it cures you. plus its cheap to manufacture.

Didn't care. said that all cannabis users were all pot smoking hippies and that they should be deported to mexico.

on a related note, both Mom and Dad equate Mexico with the 7th circle of hell.

Isotope: Weaver95: it's not addictive

this is a popular misconception.

.


Wait, what?


Coz, I remember that time I ran out of weed, and I had to suck dick for it, I was shaking so much and the cold sweats they ran down my forehead, the size of cantaloupes, man

Weaver95 Have them drink a cup of coffee tho....

This is a brilliant example. Coffee has been a part of my morning routine for decades. The rare days I manage to run out, the difference is obvious.

Weaver95: Have them drink a cup of coffee

I never drank alcohol until I was 18. For years, I would only drink in controlled settings. I was terrified of becoming an addict. I would give myself little "tests", like going out and not drinking, or going a month without a drink, or having one beer only, random stuff like that to make sure I was a social drinker and not turning into my father.

It took me until I was about 25 to realize that while I was dangling a Sam Addams in front of myself, or leaving an opening a bottle of wine and only having one glass, if I didn't have a cup of coffee by 9am or so, I'd stab a baby to get one.

what_now: Weaver95: Have them drink a cup of coffee

I never drank alcohol until I was 18. For years, I would only drink in controlled settings. I was terrified of becoming an addict. I would give myself little "tests", like going out and not drinking, or going a month without a drink, or having one beer only, random stuff like that to make sure I was a social drinker and not turning into my father.

It took me until I was about 25 to realize that while I was dangling a Sam Addams in front of myself, or leaving an opening a bottle of wine and only having one glass, if I didn't have a cup of coffee by 9am or so, I'd stab a baby to get one.

I can go months without a beer, or even a nice cup of rum and [insert something here]. But if I don't get a cup of coffee every morning, or drink a six pack of mountain dew every 2 days....yeah, i'm going berserk on someone before the end of the day.

Weaver95: um...it's not addictive.

Yeah, it kinda is. Less so than alcohol, coke, or happiness though.

They did a study with rats I believe, not too long ago.

FootInMouthDisease: Isotope this is a popular misconception.[citation needed]

source(s)?

Man, I didn't know it would be so easy to smoke out the pot heads.


Anyhow, let me Google Pubmed (new window) that for you. That's a decent-looking review...I'll let you find your own primary sources.


FTA: The fraction of new cannabis users who eventually develop a cannabis dependence syndrome is about one cannabis dependence case for every 9-11 who start smoking cannabis

Interesting...those numbers aren't far off the alcoholism stats. The article also references the use of several drugs that are used to treat alcoholism.

Biggs: Weaver95: um...it's not addictive.

Yeah, it kinda is. Less so than alcohol, coke, or happiness though.

They did a study with rats I believe, not too long ago.

the crack rats were dead within 2 weeks. the cannabis rats....pretty mellow, as I recall. half the rats in the cage didn't even snarf down on the cannabis either.

Biggs: They did a study with rats I believe, not too long ago.


1) Everything causes cancer in rats.
2) Rats get addicted to everything.
3) We're not rats.

Link, dammit (new window)

there's a link to the full article.

Weaver95: Didn't care. said that all cannabis users were all pot smoking hippies and that they should be deported to mexico.

What does he think of Carl Sagan?

He was the "Mr. X" in Marihuana Reconsidered (the book title spelled it with an "h", iirc).

Isotope: Link, dammit (new window)

there's a link to the full article.

Sorry, chief but had to stop reading at "....both psychotherapy and medications, for marijuana withdrawal."

Marijuana withdrawal?????? What withdrawals?

Isotope: Man, I didn't know it would be so easy to smoke out the pot heads.

FTFLink: National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of Health, Department of Health and Human Services

"The objective of this article is to update and review the state of the science and treatments available for marijuana dependence based on a pre-meeting workshop that was presented at ISAM 2006. At the workshop, several papers were presented addressing the neurobiology and pharmacology of marijuana and treatment approaches, both psychotherapy and medications, for marijuana withdrawal."

Oh, you're trolling.

So you cite a government agency, theres a shocker.

I wonder if they might have a vested interest in the results. Wouldn't have anything to do with policy I'm sure.

/Do you even know what marijuana withdrawal consists of?
//People who have substance abuse issues don't have a marijuana problem they have control problem.

I quit coffee about six months ago. All caffeine, in fact. Had to. I was in pain all the time. (Google "epididymitis" and learn about my balls if you're interested).

I was MISERABLE for about a week. So unhappy. Felt like I was living life through a gauze wrapping. Couldn't make myself "awake" in the morning. Always felt dopey. The smell of a coffee roaster or even seeing someone with a latte in their hands made me start to sweat. It was bad. Took about 2 weeks to totally get over it.

Compare that to the times I've had no pot. I...um.....don't smoke any pot and I eat a bit less cuz I'm not all munched out. All the sleeplessness, irritablity, cravings and other horror stories from the "experts" at NIDA and NIH are a load of crap.

I know what withdrawl feels like. I know what addiction feels like. Marijuana isn't it.

Weaver95: I would rather not have someone wish a horrific death on my father, thank you very much. Besides, diabetes kills all of us not cancer.

See this is why he is against it! You smoke a bowl and then what? It's Cheeto and Twinkie time well known poison for diabetics.

FloydA: He opposed legalization because "pot smokers are criminals.

This is common among older folks. Since lighting up is a criminal act then if it is legalized them dope smokers will just move on to something else illegal. (this logic is why a great many of them blindly vote for republicans- they ain't evhul commie libs so they must be good.)

\When it becomes legal give me a fattie a TV and a bag of doritos, but not till then.
\\ wants a mood enhancer that is not addictive,
\\\ was 1 drink away from being an alcoholic

FootInMouthDisease:
//People who have substance abuse issues don't have a marijuana problem they have control problem.

nicely put. Everybody desperately wants to blame something else than themselves for their own failures and weaknesses. If it took drugs to bring you down, you had other problems to begin with that needed attention. Especially if that drug is weed

nice catch on the source

FootInMouthDisease: government agency

Which government agency? From ISAM's constitution: The Society is an international, non-political, not-for-profit organization

It was the first relevant free review that cam up in PubMed. There are plenty of others but I'm not going to do your homework for you.

People who have substance abuse issues don't have a marijuana problem they have control problem.

You get that from High Times or something? The same can be said about any addictive substance to some extent.

Bill_Wick's_Friend: epididymitis

Wasn't that a character in Labrynth?

Well duh. Have you ever tried to smoke a Republican?

HappyHarryHardOn Everybody desperately wants to blame something else than themselves for their own failures and weaknesses. If it took drugs to bring you down, you had other problems to begin with that needed attention. Especially if that drug is weed

Precisely.

Weed has always been an easy target. As well, the Japanese are having a similar identity crisis (again) regarding weed (it used to be legal there, used for medicinal purposes, and recreationally) because of a string of high profile arrests including four of their semi-religious icon sumos, including the firing of a native born sumo. On top of that several famous musicians as well.

Much like the silliness surrounding michael phelps.

Isotope: Wasn't that a character in Labrynth?

Google it.

(caution: not safe for sitting comfortably)

Isotope There are plenty of others but I'm not going to do your homework for you.

Clearly you have done no real research on the subject. Your whargarbl shall garner no more responses from me.

Isotope: FootInMouthDisease: government agency

Which government agency? From ISAM's constitution: The Society is an international, non-political, not-for-profit organization

It was the first relevant free review that cam up in PubMed. There are plenty of others but I'm not going to do your homework for you.

People who have substance abuse issues don't have a marijuana problem they have control problem.

You get that from High Times or something? The same can be said about any addictive substance to some extent.

There is physical addiction from opiates ONLY. EVERYTHING ELSE from cafeine to extacsy to Meth to cocaine is a control issue. but there is no actual physical addiction

FootInMouthDisease: Isotope There are plenty of others but I'm not going to do your homework for you.

Clearly you have done no real research on the subject. Your whargarbl shall garner no more responses from me.

Same to ya. You go smoke up...I got science to do.

Isotope: FootInMouthDisease: Isotope There are plenty of others but I'm n

Same to ya. You go smoke up...I got science to do.


yeah, because you are clearly dazzling us with it

FootInMouthDisease: Isotope There are plenty of others but I'm not going to do your homework for you.

Clearly you have done no real research on the subject. Your whargarbl shall garner no more responses from me.

Eh, it seems like there are some studies that say it is addictive and some that say it isn't.

Link (new window)

Research by a group of scientists studying the effects of heavy marijuana use suggests that withdrawal from the use of marijuana is similar to what is experienced by people when they quit smoking cigarettes. Abstinence from each of these drugs appears to cause several common symptoms, such as irritability, anger and trouble sleeping - based on self reporting in a recent study of 12 heavy users of both marijuana and cigarettes.

"These results indicate that some marijuana users experience withdrawal effects when they try to quit, and that these effects should be considered by clinicians treating people with problems related to heavy marijuana use," says lead investigator in the study, Ryan Vandrey, Ph.D., of the Department of Psychiatry at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.

HappyHarryHardOn Isotope: FootInMouthDisease: Isotope There are plenty of others but I'm n

Same to ya. You go smoke up...I got science to do.


yeah, because you are clearly dazzling us with it

I wish I could've gotten a Degree in 'Science'

It seems something that universal would afford more opportunities than an MBA and a couple Engineering Degrees. What a dreary miserable existence I sustain.

LOL

/Alas, to have such education that allows me to peruse fark with impunity, in spite of reality smacking me in the face before retiring to my cheetos and tears encrusted pillow to wallow in my own detritus.

dammit I'm a glutton for punishment....

HappyHarryHardOn: yeah, because you are clearly dazzling us with it

All I can do is show it to you, if you want to stick your finger in your ears and go "LA LA LA LA LA LA", that's up to you.

And I would like to know where you got this: EVERYTHING ELSE from cafeine to extacsy to Meth to cocaine is a control issue

But seriously, I know you're not going to believe me but if you're interested in the actual science of it, go to http://www.pubmed.com and search for "cannabis addiction". Click on "reviews" for the more easily digestible articles.

Marijuana is a gateway drug. People smoke it and end up buying a computer in a cow box.

Ryan2065 I'm not saying by any means that it's good for you, and the be all end all plant to save humanity, but at the same time, vilifying it is stupid.

would you agree?

Ryan2065: FootInMouthDisease: Isotope There are plenty of others but I'm not going to do your homework for you.

Clearly you have done no real research on the subject. Your whargarbl shall garner no more responses from me.

Eh, it seems like there are some studies that say it is addictive and some that say it isn't.

Link (new window)

Research by a group of scientists studying the effects of heavy marijuana use suggests that withdrawal from the use of marijuana is similar to what is experienced by people when they quit smoking cigarettes. Abstinence from each of these drugs appears to cause several common symptoms, such as irritability, anger and trouble sleeping - based on self reporting in a recent study of 12 heavy users of both marijuana and cigarettes.

"These results indicate that some marijuana users experience withdrawal effects when they try to quit, and that these effects should be considered by clinicians treating people with problems related to heavy marijuana use," says lead investigator in the study, Ryan Vandrey, Ph.D., of the Department of Psychiatry at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.



They're pretty mild symptoms don't you think? OH NOES! Johnny is cranky and can't take naps anymore

Trust me, those "withdrawals" listed above are all true but they are also a cakewalk compared to even cigarettes withdrawal. (there's no nicotine in pot)

Up front, I don't smoke pot. I actually have an allergic reaction to the stuff, which I found out the hard way in college. That being said, I've yet to hear a rational, reasoned ending to the following statement.

Pot is inherently worse than alcohol, nicotine and caffeine because [blank].

Isotope: dammit I'm a glutton for punishment....

HappyHarryHardOn: yeah, because you are clearly dazzling us with it

All I can do is show it to you, if you want to stick your finger in your ears and go "LA LA LA LA LA LA", that's up to you.



you keep referring us to articles, but you won't even defend or argue your beliefs. You just point to more articles