That was mostly a smackdown on the asshole policies of Reagan and Bush...

Way to go, Tutu!

How the hell is Obama's grandmother speaking to him from the grave?

I thought Obama's brother's name was Tito.

And Tutu too?

I guess it rains down in Africa.

/Toto?

Et tu, Tutu?

Awesome. I saw him speak when he was a guest lecturer at my university. Amazing presence and warmth.

"I never imagined in my worst dreams that I would live to see the day when the United States would abrogate the rule of law and habeas corpus"

When will someone with legal expertise prove this. No one has. No one will, because it was and still is not illegal by any law in the U.S. or under the Geneva Convention to keep enemy combatants as we have. Tutu should worry more about how his glorious "reconciliation" committee has failed miserably in South Africa, and how apartheid has not really left that country except in name.

or



/contents may be hot

Lionel Mandrake: That was mostly a smackdown on the asshole policies of Reagan and Bush...

Way to go, Tutu!

I saw him several years ago at a speaking event at the University of Oklahoma, and afterwards went to a dinner with him, where they held questions and answers with him. One young man stepped up to the mic and asked questions concerning what Tutu thought of Ronald Reagan, or "what it was like for Tutu to meet such a wonderful man."

It took everything for Tutu to hold back ripping Reagan to shreds and he ended his answer with the phrase "I was very angry." The room was very silent after that answer.

Lets see his record of Human Rights? I will compare them to the USA anyday.

Rape of white women in South Africa, when he took power? Yea it happened on his watch. He did nothing about it.

Umokay: When will someone with legal expertise prove this. No one has. No one will, because it was and still is not illegal by any law in the U.S. or under the Geneva Convention to keep enemy combatants as we have.

You've got to be shiatting us.

Anyway, very nice article. Well done, Mr. Tutu.

Tutu talks a good game, but he's got a lot more serious problems going on closer to home before he can weigh in on Obama and have me take him seriously. All the bishop's pious pronouncements and strongly-worded letters haven't done jack squat for the people of Zimbabwe and yet here he is still spouting the long-discredited straddle that Mugabe had a good run but now it's over.

"Mugabe's had an innings. He had a good innings, then he messed up."

Why does that sound so familiar? Baseball fans will know:

Everybody knows he was good at the beginning but he just went too far.

Hey, great. We have an international human-rights luminary channeling Marge Schott.

winterwhile: Lets see his record of Human Rights? I will compare them to the USA anyday.

Rape of white women in South Africa, when he took power? Yea it happened on his watch. He did nothing about it.

I don't think you know who you're talking about.

Gulper Eel: "Mugabe's had an innings. He had a good innings, then he messed up."



Why does that sound so familiar? Baseball fans will know:

Everybody knows he was good at the beginning but he just went too far.



Hey, great. We have an international human-rights luminary channeling Marge Schott.

Except he was refering to a cricket innings.

He's likely never even heard of Marge Schott or using a quote from her. He could be using a popular term from the world's second most popular sport that's played in both Zimbabwe and the UK or could be referring to a sport that doesn't make the top 10 popularity (depending on the metric) and is relatively unknown in both those countries.

Tenebreux
winterwhile: Lets see his record of Human Rights? I will compare them to the USA anyday.

Rape of white women in South Africa, when he took power? Yea it happened on his watch. He did nothing about it.

I don't think you know who you're talking about.

ok prove me wrong

I have a 60 minutes tape to show you

winterwhile: Lets see his record of Human Rights? I will compare them to the USA anyday.

Rape of white women in South Africa, when he took power? Yea it happened on his watch. He did nothing about it.

You're stupid. I think I lost a few brain cells reading that ignorant shiat.

winterwhile I think you'll find it was the Anglican general Synod that sanctioned the rape of white women in South Africa, it has biblical precedence apparently.

Lionel Mandrake
winterwhile: Lets see his record of Human Rights? I will compare them to the USA anyday.

Rape of white women in South Africa, when he took power? Yea it happened on his watch. He did nothing about it.

You're stupid. I think I lost a few brain cells reading that ignorant shiat.

So prove me wrong

and then

lets all watch the 60 minutes tape together

winterwhile: Lionel Mandrake
winterwhile: Lets see his record of Human Rights? I will compare them to the USA anyday.

Rape of white women in South Africa, when he took power? Yea it happened on his watch. He did nothing about it.

You're stupid. I think I lost a few brain cells reading that ignorant shiat.

So prove me wrong

and then

lets all watch the 60 minutes tape together

I don't understand what you mean by "Came to Power". Archbishop Tutu isn't a political leader, he doesn't have any 'power' to come to, really.

Tenebreux
winterwhile: Lionel Mandrake
winterwhile: Lets see his record of Human Rights? I will compare them to the USA anyday.

Rape of white women in South Africa, when he took power? Yea it happened on his watch. He did nothing about it.

You're stupid. I think I lost a few brain cells reading that ignorant shiat.

So prove me wrong

and then

lets all watch the 60 minutes tape together

I don't understand what you mean by "Came to Power". Archbishop Tutu isn't a political leader, he doesn't have any 'power' to come to, really.

Again his Human Rights record vrs the USA

He could have said somthing, but did not... its that simple

Oh he can blame the USA... the his way of covering up his Countries Human Rights abuses.

No, this guy is not clean when it comes to Human rights.

winterwhile: Tenebreux
winterwhile: Lionel Mandrake
winterwhile: Lets see his record of Human Rights? I will compare them to the USA anyday.

Rape of white women in South Africa, when he took power? Yea it happened on his watch. He did nothing about it.

You're stupid. I think I lost a few brain cells reading that ignorant shiat.

So prove me wrong

and then

lets all watch the 60 minutes tape together

I don't understand what you mean by "Came to Power". Archbishop Tutu isn't a political leader, he doesn't have any 'power' to come to, really.

Again his Human Rights record vrs the USA

He could have said somthing, but did not... its that simple

Oh he can blame the USA... the his way of covering up his Countries Human Rights abuses.

No, this guy is not clean when it comes to Human rights.

I can't seem to find any articles supporting what you've said. Could you provide a link so I can read what you've been reading?

Umokay: "I never imagined in my worst dreams that I would live to see the day when the United States would abrogate the rule of law and habeas corpus"

When will someone with legal expertise prove this. No one has. No one will, because it was and still is not illegal by any law in the U.S. or under the Geneva Convention to keep enemy combatants as we have. Tutu should worry more about how his glorious "reconciliation" committee has failed miserably in South Africa, and how apartheid has not really left that country except in name.

Is the Supreme Court(p) enough of an expert for you?

"On June 12, 2008, Justice Kennedy wrote the opinion for the 5-4 majority holding that the prisoners had a right to the habeas corpus under the United States Constitution and that the MCA was an unconstitutional suspension of that right."

Lionel Mandrake: That was mostly a smackdown on the asshole policies of Reagan and Bush...

Way to go, Tutu!

Policies that freed over 150 million people and counting.

winterwhile:
Rape of white women in South Africa, when he took power? Yea it happened on his watch. He did nothing about it.

I guess they all look the same to you.

winterwhile: So prove me wrong

and then

lets all watch the 60 minutes tape together

What the hell do you even mean by "when he took power?" Or "on his watch?" You realize he was never "in power," and was in no position to "do" anything about that shiat, right?

Are you thinking of Nelson Mandela?

...and I's rather pluck out my eyeballs with red-hot tongs than be in the same room with you, but thanks for the invitation, that was sweet.

randomjsa: Lionel Mandrake: That was mostly a smackdown on the asshole policies of Reagan and Bush...

Way to go, Tutu!

Policies that freed over 150 million people and counting.

Dream on, Reaganbot

the only thing Desmond Tutu has been a leader of are the anglican church of southern africa and TRC. only thing he can do right now is criticize the government and that does not help at all.

so it's safe to say this man has no human rights record of his own.

Lionel Mandrake: Umokay: "I never imagined in my worst dreams that I would live to see the day when the United States would abrogate the rule of law and habeas corpus"

When will someone with legal expertise prove this. No one has. No one will, because it was and still is not illegal by any law in the U.S. or under the Geneva Convention to keep enemy combatants as we have. Tutu should worry more about how his glorious "reconciliation" committee has failed miserably in South Africa, and how apartheid has not really left that country except in name.

Is the Supreme Court(p) enough of an expert for you?

"On June 12, 2008, Justice Kennedy wrote the opinion for the 5-4 majority holding that the prisoners had a right to the habeas corpus under the United States Constitution and that the MCA was an unconstitutional suspension of that right."

I know this case and understand your rebuttal. However, this was a very unique and special case, that in short, cannot be applied to all prisoners at Gitmo.

But, point taken. It is just that if you read the dissents by Scalia and Roberts (available even in the evidence you provided), you will see that his argument is valid, and his precedents cited state that it is "thus held-held beyond any doubt-that the Constitution does not ensure habeas for aliens held by the United States in areas over which our Government is not sovereign."

This man in particular may have deserved at least the opportunity to apply for writ of habeas. But even the judge who ordered the release said so, and that is was so unique that few other people held at the prison would receive or deserve to receive the same consideration.

But whether you agree with me or not, you must admit that a 5-4 decision in a case where dissent was clearly, factually, and honesty given with precedent, and the interpretation of law is an ever changing thing, that this interpretation is open to question, and has been questioned, even in the dissent appropriately and fairly.

So, I should not have originally posted without hyperbolic restraint, but your seemingly "strong" rebuttal in my opinion is questionable as I mentioned in the previous paragraph.

Libruls revising history?


It's more common than you think.

Lionel Mandrake:


Dream on, Reaganbot

The Reagan Revolution: funding the enemies of tomorrow to fight the enemies of yesterday.

randomjsa: Lionel Mandrake: That was mostly a smackdown on the asshole policies of Reagan and Bush...

Way to go, Tutu!

Policies that freed over 150 million people and counting.
----------------------------------------------------------------

In the days before the Washington summit of December 1987, Gen. Colin Powell, then the national security adviser, briefed Reagan on the details of the nuclear-weapons treaty they were about to wrap up-but all Reagan wanted to know was at what point he should give Gorbachev a set of gold cuff links that he'd picked out as a gift.

At their first one-on-one talk, Gorbachev tried to talk substance, but Reagan kept telling interminable anecdotes and anti-Soviet jokes, leading Gorbachev at one point to mutter, "On boltayet yeshchyo" ("He's babbling again"). The next day, in a larger meeting that included 34 U.S. and Soviet officials, Reagan repeated the performance, causing Secretary of State George Shultz to scold him afterward. "Mr. President, that was a disaster," Shultz said. "You can't just sit there telling jokes."

The following May, in their face-to-face talks at the summit in Moscow, Reagan spent an astonishing amount of time trying to convince a clearly annoyed Gorbachev of God's existence. (The National Security Council's Soviet affairs director, Rudolf Perina, who took notes at the meeting, told Mann, "Reagan thought he could convert Gorbachev, or make him see the light.")

Your hero was a jellybean eating moron. To his credit though, the best work he did during the cold war was breaking with his own party's policies that were leading us in to a very hot war.

Phil Herup: Libruls revising history?


It's more common than you think.

Ronnie Raygun never did nothin wrong.

Perhaps Tutu can concentrate his attention on the ills in his own country, and let Obama concentrate on this one.

Snarfangel: Perhaps Tutu can concentrate his attention on the ills in his own country, and let Obama concentrate on this one.

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." John Donne - 1623

Sym_pathetic: Phil Herup: Libruls revising history?


It's more common than you think.

Ronnie Raygun never did nothin wrong.



Everyone makes mistakes bro.

Lionel Mandrake: That was mostly a smackdown on the asshole policies of Reagan and Bush...

Way to go, Tutu!

Ironically, George W. Bush has done more for Africa than any other American president:

In Rwanda - on Bush's tour and one of Pepfar's 15 priority countries - Dr Agnes Binagwaho, the head of the national Aids council, says the US programme is the major contributor to a tenfold increase over the past four years in the numbers of Rwandans on ARVs to nearly 50,000 people. Today about 70% of Rwandans who need the drugs receive them. "The impact is huge. The average life expectancy of Rwandans has improved by four years because of Pepfar," she said. "The impact is also really big in the health sector because of the equipment and training. It is putting children through school."

What a major asshole.

Snarfangel: Perhaps Tutu can concentrate his attention on the ills in his own country, and let Obama concentrate on this one.

I think he can multitask. And he's mostly talking about foreign policies with effects that are often felt by the rest of the world, not domestic affairs. Well, actually he's mostly talking about how much he likes America, but that's beside the point.

all the bullshhitt started when ronnie raygun began to give everything to the top 2 or 3% of the Nation's richest and to big business. he ignored the middle/working class because he was an actor and knows nothing of the life of Nations. a large healthy middle class is the reason we are so different than many other countries where all the wealth is owned by 1 or 2% of the population.

without a large strong middle class, America is finished.

thanks, ronnie. we're so glad you were putting your country first and your rich friends second.

you should have stayed with acting and stayed out of our Government.

fortunately you won't be causing any more problems.


/dev/null/republicans

Linux_Yes: all the bullshhitt started when ronnie raygun began to give everything to the top 2 or 3% of the Nation's richest and to big business. he ignored the middle/working class because he was an actor and knows nothing of the life of Nations. a large healthy middle class is the reason we are so different than many other countries where all the wealth is owned by 1 or 2% of the population.

without a large strong middle class, America is finished.

thanks, ronnie. we're so glad you were putting your country first and your rich friends second.

you should have stayed with acting and stayed out of our Government.

fortunately you won't be causing any more problems.


/dev/null/republicans

and here is where ronald reagan's friends put their money......

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29268064/

dittybopper:
What a major asshole.

It's not bad, although increasing life expectancy while suppressing birth control and prevention is just another problem waiting to happen.
But yeah, even assholes can do nice things once in a while.

dittybopper: Lionel Mandrake: That was mostly a smackdown on the asshole policies of Reagan and Bush...

Way to go, Tutu!

Ironically, George W. Bush has done more for Africa than any other American president:

In Rwanda - on Bush's tour and one of Pepfar's 15 priority countries - Dr Agnes Binagwaho, the head of the national Aids council, says the US programme is the major contributor to a tenfold increase over the past four years in the numbers of Rwandans on ARVs to nearly 50,000 people. Today about 70% of Rwandans who need the drugs receive them. "The impact is huge. The average life expectancy of Rwandans has improved by four years because of Pepfar," she said. "The impact is also really big in the health sector because of the equipment and training. It is putting children through school."

What a major asshole.

Sure, a good track record in one area absolves him of all wrongdoing.

Yes, he is a major asshole.

dittybopper: What a major asshole.

Though like most things in the Bush Administration, a lot more could have been done if they didn't lockstep policy with the social mores of the U.S. social conservatives.

Dansker: dittybopper:
What a major asshole.

It's not bad, although increasing life expectancy while suppressing birth control and prevention is just another problem waiting to happen.
But yeah, even assholes can do nice things once in a while.

The ABC program that Bush started stands for "Abstinence, Be faithful, Condomize".

People whined because the "Condomize" came last. I'm sorry, but you are a *FAIL*. The US program does mention birth control.

You know, sometimes propaganda (from either side) isn't true.

dittybopper: The US program does mention birth control.

And one third of the programming funded by PEPFAR from 2006 to 2008 was dedicated to abstinence-until-marriage programs. Also, all PEPFAR-funded organizations had to sign an anti-prostitution pledge and could not have needle exchange programs. PEPFAR also wouldn't buy generic drugs until 2005, but that was probably less due to social ideology, and more because Bush appointed a former CEO of Eli Lilly to head PEPFAR.

I liked this part:

I said that while there were clearly pockets of anti-Americanism around the world, this was definitely not a global phenomenon nor was it directed towards the American people.

What I certainly could attest to was substantial resentment and indeed hostile opposition to the policies of a particular US administration.

I contended, as I do now, that the two are quite distinct and separate.

Everyone makes a big deal out of Americans not having good attention spans about politics, but people worldwide are just as fickle as we are.

dittybopper: Dansker: dittybopper:
What a major asshole.

It's not bad, although increasing life expectancy while suppressing birth control and prevention is just another problem waiting to happen.
But yeah, even assholes can do nice things once in a while.

The ABC program that Bush started stands for "Abstinence, Be faithful, Condomize".

People whined because the "Condomize" came last. I'm sorry, but you are a *FAIL*. The US program does mention birth control.

You know, sometimes propaganda (from either side) isn't true.

The requirement that a large fraction of President Bush's global AIDS plan go to promote abstinence and fidelity is causing confusion in many countries and in a few is eroding other prevention efforts, including ones to reduce mother-to-child transmission of the virus.

Those are among the chief conclusions of an 87-page report by the Government Accountability Office that examined the most controversial aspect of the giant AIDS plan, budgeted at $15 billion over five years.
Washington Post, April 5, 2006: GAO Criticizes Bush's AIDS Plan

Which side is the Government Accountability Office on?