Everyone needs their bogeyman.

Chavez long ago said that "Obama has the same stench as Bush." I'd take that as something of a compliment coming from Chavez.

Crazy Chavez is crazy.

bush was a godsend to tyrants the world over, bin laden and ahmedinedjad most of all.

FlashHarry: bush was a godsend to tyrants the world over, bin laden and ahmedinedjad most of all.

Yup...

FlashHarry: bush was a godsend to tyrants the world over, bin laden and ahmedinedjad most of all.

2 out of 3 ain't bad.

Thugs of the world love Dem presidents.

pre-january20,2009 - Chavez: "With enemies like these, who needs friends?"
today - Chavez: "o shiat"

ILoveBeer3000: Thugs of the world love Dem presidents.

YES LOVE THEM!

He got his wish.

Just wait nine months.

ILoveBeer3000: Thugs of the world love Dem presidents.

Um...no...the point is that thugs of the world loved W - he acted just as they wanted: tough guy swagger and "bring 'em on" idiocy was perfect to rile up the home crowd against evil America instead of their own corrupt asshat leaders.

But with Obama, Chavez will have to act with prudence and intelligence.

Newsflash: it's already too late. Chavez Likens Obama's 'Stench' to Bush's (new window)

Lionel Mandrake: FlashHarry: bush was a godsend to tyrants the world over, bin laden and ahmedinedjad most of all.

Yup...

fixeh

Lionel Mandrake:
Um...no...the point is that thugs of the world loved W - he acted just as they wanted: tough guy swagger and "bring 'em on" idiocy was perfect to rile up the home crowd against evil America instead of their own corrupt asshat leaders.

Or, the thug leaders know they can get away with shiat while a Dem is president because the US Gov't isn't going to do a thing about it.

- Mogadishu
- Yasser Arafat spending more time at the WH while Clinton was in office than any other leader, then turning down a deal where he gets 99% of what he asked for
- Clinton's failure to take bin Laden when offered
- JFKs failure to follow through with Bay of Pigs
- Johnson's preventing the bombing of the NVA in N. Vietnam
- Clinton's lack of response to the first WTC bombing and the USS Cole incident
- N. Korea breaking every promise made with Clinton with no repercussions
- Carter not sending anyone to get our hostages in Iran for 444 days, then they release them on Reagan's inaguration

Face it, Dem foreign policy is viewed by the thugs of the world as the same as the UN. For Reps, even if they are arrogant and bumbling, scare the thugs with the idea of retaliation.

Yeah, Chavez talked all kinds of trash when oil was $140 a barrel. Now that it's under $40 we see the kinder, gentler Chavez kissing up. You can decide for yourself whether it's 'the historic Obama presidency' or the fact he's running out of money to fund his socialist paradise.

He *will* if he wants to maintain his power -- or look ultimately stupid.

Same with Iran.


Subby misses the point entirely. It's not a prediction of what these countries will do, it's an admonition of what the political realities are when you don't have convenient dumb ass in the United States to blame all your problems on.


Allow this point to get missed through the rest of thread.

ILoveBeer3000: Lionel Mandrake:
Um...no...the point is that thugs of the world loved W - he acted just as they wanted: tough guy swagger and "bring 'em on" idiocy was perfect to rile up the home crowd against evil America instead of their own corrupt asshat leaders.

Or, the thug leaders know they can get away with shiat while a Dem is president because the US Gov't isn't going to do a thing about it.

- Mogadishu
- Yasser Arafat spending more time at the WH while Clinton was in office than any other leader, then turning down a deal where he gets 99% of what he asked for
- Clinton's failure to take bin Laden when offered
- JFKs failure to follow through with Bay of Pigs
- Johnson's preventing the bombing of the NVA in N. Vietnam
- Clinton's lack of response to the first WTC bombing and the USS Cole incident
- N. Korea breaking every promise made with Clinton with no repercussions
- Carter not sending anyone to get our hostages in Iran for 444 days, then they release them on Reagan's inaguration

Face it, Dem foreign policy is viewed by the thugs of the world as the same as the UN. For Reps, even if they are arrogant and bumbling, scare the thugs with the idea of retaliation.


I can give about 100(billion) examples of things happening under Republican presidents but I won't bother.shiat happens regardless of who the guy sitting in the big chair is.

Dem foreign policy is actual foreign policy (i.e. talking to people). Not fear monger and lie to your country about imminent nuclear attack.


If you think acting like arrogant pricks and invading random countries scares our enemies you are not even worth having a discussion with.

I can assure the effect is quite the opposite. They want to hurt us even more. And they will.....eventually.



Bush was President and the Republicans were in control when 9/11 happened...... food for thought.


/you are probably trolling but I'm bored.

flannelled fool: Yeah, Chavez talked all kinds of trash when oil was $140 a barrel. Now that it's under $40 we see the kinder, gentler Chavez kissing up. You can decide for yourself whether it's 'the historic Obama presidency' or the fact he's running out of money to fund his socialist paradise.

You're a perfect example of why Drew has plenty of beer money.

Yeah.

Chavez fits most (though not all) definitions of "dictator." He is certainly the guide and tool of the "tyranny of the majority" currently grinding Venezuela down.

ILoveBeer3000: Lionel Mandrake:
Um...no...the point is that thugs of the world loved W - he acted just as they wanted: tough guy swagger and "bring 'em on" idiocy was perfect to rile up the home crowd against evil America instead of their own corrupt asshat leaders.

Or, the thug leaders know they can get away with shiat while a Dem is president because the US Gov't isn't going to do a thing about it.

- Mogadishu
- Yasser Arafat spending more time at the WH while Clinton was in office than any other leader, then turning down a deal where he gets 99% of what he asked for
- Clinton's failure to take bin Laden when offered
- JFKs failure to follow through with Bay of Pigs
- Johnson's preventing the bombing of the NVA in N. Vietnam
- Clinton's lack of response to the first WTC bombing and the USS Cole incident
- N. Korea breaking every promise made with Clinton with no repercussions
- Carter not sending anyone to get our hostages in Iran for 444 days, then they release them on Reagan's inaguration

Face it, Dem foreign policy is viewed by the thugs of the world as the same as the UN. For Reps, even if they are arrogant and bumbling, scare the thugs with the idea of retaliation.


2/10, you can do better.

crab66:
I can give about 100(billion) examples of things happening under Republican presidents but I won't bother.shiat happens regardless of who the guy sitting in the big chair is.

Dem foreign policy is actual foreign policy (i.e. talking to people). Not fear monger and lie to your country about imminent nuclear attack.

If you think acting like arrogant pricks and invading random countries scares our enemies you are not even worth having a discussion with.

I can assure the effect is quite the opposite. They want to hurt us even more. And they will.....eventually.

Bush was President and the Republicans were in control when 9/11 happened...... food for thought.

/you are probably trolling but I'm bored.

I love that because I have an opinion opposed to yours, I'm a "troll".

Bush did respond to 9/11. Clinton treated the first WTC as a police action.

My point is that rogue regimes and their thug leaders actually acknowledge that the US gov't may come to get them if they go off the reservation, hence Chavez constantly claiming the US was trying to kill him. Just watch that kind of talk recede.

Mommar Qaddafi quit his nuke program under Bush, I'm guessing because he saw what was going on to the east of him.

Yes, talking is better than guns and bullets, but Dem president's versions of retaliating against these rouge regimes are more like the UN - storngly worded letters of condemnation and not much else.

Reps pull out the guns because they're ready to bang if need be.

I'm not saying either way is right or wrong, just pointing out the facts.

ILoveBeer3000: I love that because I have an opinion opposed to yours, I'm a "troll".

You are not a troll? Then you are a complete moran that knows nothing about history. Fark, your list was filled with errors and Republicans have backed down many times. Like good old Ronald Reagan. He pulled our troops after loosing 300 marines, what a pussy.

CynicalLA:

2/10, you can do better.

Enlighten me how, with facts.

PS: bin Laden endorsed Obama.

ILoveBeer3000: Face it, Dem foreign policy is viewed by the thugs of the world as the same as the UN. For Reps, even if they are arrogant and bumbling, scare the thugs with the idea of retaliation.

I don't have to face shiat. I can give as many examples of farked up Republican policy, too. The point is that the GOP is all swagger. They talk tough, but don't follow through. I can give you examples from Vietnam, I can give you examples from the Middle East (taking one side unconditionally has only increased our danger of attack), oh, and as for turning down the opportunity to get bin Laden, pleeeease...I can't believe you threw that out (Tora Bora, divert resources to Iraq).

Not to mention the tough-guy approach to North Korea ("you get nothing" "OK, we'll shut off the cameras and work in private." "Heh heh...OK, then, how about the same thing Clinton gave you?")

All the GOP has is a hammer, and not every problem is a nail.

FlashHarry: bush was a godsend to tyrants the world over, bin laden and ahmedinedjad most of all.

This. Bush created thousands of future terrorists.

ILoveBeer3000,

Just read your profile. You are an attorney? How could someone be so ignorant with that kind of education.

Another leftist revolutionary who supports Obama. Some things never change.

CynicalLA: ILoveBeer3000,

Just read your profile. You are an attorney? How could someone be so ignorant with that kind of education.

I gave facts, you call names. Who's ignorant?

ILoveBeer3000: CynicalLA: ILoveBeer3000,

Just read your profile. You are an attorney? How could someone be so ignorant with that kind of education.

I gave facts, you call names. Who's ignorant?

Facts? I hope you are trolling.

ILoveBeer3000: Insert unmitigated bullshiat here.

Dude, seriously. Bush was the best thing that ever happened to Bin Laden, Ahmacrazyguy, Chavez, Putin, etc. He'd talk up a bunch of bluster and invade countries he knew posed no threat to us in a totally transparent effort to be the tough guy. It only worked to use us as a wedge for their own ends. Kinda like when the neo-cons use abortion, or God, or guns to foist a wedge against the Democratic party. Those people don't have any interest in really doing anything about those problems- that's the only reason anyone votes for 'em. And just like the dictators I mentioned, once that reason goes away...

Hell, Al Qaeda is going nuts. Nobody wants to hate Obama yet. It's hard to recruit mujahadeen when nobody gets all fired up about Obama.

Besides that, I seem to remember that Clinton tried to hit Al Qaeda, but apparently it was just to get attention off of his blowjob. And there were many Republican senators who didn't feel the need to show up in Somalia, or with the Hutus/Tutsis, or Kosovo. Hell, there was a Republican President who decided that Al Qaeda meant so little that he could ignore intelligence information suggesting a major attack was imminent in the coming weeks. Sin of hubris, anyone? Or incompetence, at best.

Really. This is you; this is a clue.

Get a clue.

CynicalLA:
You are not a troll? Then you are a complete moran that knows nothing about history. Fark, your list was filled with errors and Republicans have backed down many times. Like good old Ronald Reagan. He pulled our troops after loosing 300 marines, what a pussy.

Reagan's journal said he didn't want a long drawn-out war in a region where we couldn't win.

All my statements are true. I majored in American history and read all the info on those topics.

Name-calling, again, is for those without an opinion.

No one can be that stupid.


Troll is troll.

Good show sir.

Hat Madder: Another leftist revolutionary who supports Obama. Some things never change.

1/10. C'mon, someone should have at least mentioned this somewhere in the thread, dude. You're not trying very hard. You need Remedial Troll 089, you're not even ready for Introductory Troll 101 yet.

ILoveBeer3000: CynicalLA:
You are not a troll? Then you are a complete moran that knows nothing about history. Fark, your list was filled with errors and Republicans have backed down many times. Like good old Ronald Reagan. He pulled our troops after loosing 300 marines, what a pussy.

Reagan's journal said he didn't want a long drawn-out war in a region where we couldn't win.

All my statements are true. I majored in American history and read all the info on those topics.

Name-calling, again, is for those without an opinion.

Haha, nice troll.

MacG: Chavez long ago said that "Obama has the same stench as Bush." I'd take that as something of a compliment coming from Chavez.

As I recall, that would be a mephistophelian reek of sulphur.

Chávez needs to take a page from the book of Tina Fey and know how to surrender being Queen for the Day graciously and in a timely manner.

Let's face it. It was a lot of fun. We had a lot of laughs. But if you keep up the populist BS you'll ruin your country and the gringos will just crawl back in like bedbugs. Tina Fey was smart enough to take down Sarah Palin before Palin could become a monster and devour her and the country. Just say "no". I want to do other projects. Maybe a play on Broadway. Serious acting. I don't want to be stuck doing the same brainless schtick for four or eight years while the country swirls the drain laughing.

Even Thatcher had to face the music when the North Sea oil wealth peaked and she couldn't prop up her South American-style dictatorship (or her South American dictator buddies, like Pinochet) with petro-pounds any more.

All the fair-haired blue-eyed sheiks are gone: Thatcher, that Dutch disease guy (Elmo?), Petersen, Ralph Klein. Well, maybe not whozit there, Slim Pickens, but has he still got any hair?

Sure it was fun poncing around paying for things you wouldn't dream of offering your own people, making a splash with lavish donations to the arts in Third World captials like Ottawa or London, donating cheap oil and gasoline to the benighted poor of the developed world (where the carbon footprint of a homeless American is nearly twice that of the average Frenchman or German) or treating your posse of fair-weather friends in South America, Africa, and Eurasia to massive foreign aid at the expense of the barrios back home.

But party's over, dude. Best to put some of that Devil's Gold back into your own economy before it flounders altogether under the same old statism, cronyism and corruption that got your predecessors and which will get your successors until the oil runs out and you've got nothing to sell but carbon offsets or third rate grazing land.

That writer may be one of the stupidest people on the planet.

ILoveBeer3000: CynicalLA:
You are not a troll? Then you are a complete moran that knows nothing about history. Fark, your list was filled with errors and Republicans have backed down many times. Like good old Ronald Reagan. He pulled our troops after loosing 300 marines, what a pussy.

Reagan's journal said he didn't want a long drawn-out war in a region where we couldn't win.

All my statements are true. I majored in American history and read all the info on those topics.

Name-calling, again, is for those without an opinion.

You are not a troll because you have a wrong opinion. You are a troll because you spout "facts" that are a multitude of prevarications, falsehoods, delusions, and spin.

Moving on...

I have mixed feelings about Chavez. The man himself is a joke, we've basically done nothing but point and laugh at him (some off-funding for an opposition newspaper doesn't matter when countered with his nationalization and chained broadcasts) and he is no threat to us. He supports FARC but only as far as they are useful to him. He threatens war with Colombia but it's all bluff and bluster, instigated by Colombia as often as not.

Chavez is going to keep grasping and doing his clownish "revolution" act because that's all he has. His rabble-rousing will kill another handful of innocents, run a few more riots, and then one of three things will happen:

-He gets assassinated, not by some CIA operative, but by some kid whose family was murdered by "chavistas" and "soldiers of the revolution," and summarily enshrined for being great.

-He gets kicked out, whether he flees the country or just retires, his bone-headed decisions will eventually make even the ignorant peasants he's been razzle-dazzling quit liking him.

-He decides to go military dictatorship, which may end badly for him since even after his purges and politics I believe quite a bit of the military doesn't care for him or his methods. They don't LIKE being sent in to clean up riots that he started.

Should prove interesting from an academic perspective, but no point in getting worked up about it...

Like Obama's going to give 2 figs for anything Chavez has to say or do. Obama's not going to do anything with Chavez except stick him on his ignore list.

ragekage
Hat Madder: Another leftist revolutionary who supports Obama. Some things never change.

1/10. C'mon, someone should have at least mentioned this somewhere in the thread, dude. You're not trying very hard. You need Remedial Troll 089, you're not even ready for Introductory Troll 101 yet.

Should have mentioned that he's a leftist revolutionary? You don't have to get past the very first sentence:

Teodoro Petkoff is a former leftist revolutionary and Cabinet minister...

Or that he supports Obama:

There are a lot of expectations with Obama. Opening up trade with Cuba, allowing tourism and cash transfers, easing the embargo -- all would be innocuous gestures for him

In other words, you made a fool of yourself again.

ragekage:
Dude, seriously. Bush was the best thing that ever happened to Bin Laden, Ahmacrazyguy, Chavez, Putin, etc. He'd talk up a bunch of bluster and invade countries he knew posed no threat to us in a totally transparent effort to be the tough guy. It only worked to use us as a wedge for their own ends. Kinda like when the neo-cons use abortion, or God, or guns to foist a wedge against the Democratic party. Those people don't have any interest in really doing anything about those problems- that's the only reason anyone votes for 'em. And just like the dictators I mentioned, once that reason goes away...

Oil was the best thing to happen to Putin and Chavez, Israel is the best think for Ahmadinejad, and Bush was exactly what was needed to combat bin Laden's actions, previoulsy referred to as "police actions" by Dems.

Do you mean like when Dems always tell old people that Reps are going to take away their Medicare and Social Security during every campaign, or when Obama said McCain was going to play the race card?

Hell, Al Qaeda is going nuts. Nobody wants to hate Obama yet. It's hard to recruit mujahadeen when nobody gets all fired up about Obama.

He did just send 70,000 more troops to Afghanistan.

Besides that, I seem to remember that Clinton tried to hit Al Qaeda, but apparently it was just to get attention off of his blowjob. And there were many Republican senators who didn't feel the need to show up in Somalia, or with the Hutus/Tutsis, or Kosovo. Hell, there was a Republican President who decided that Al Qaeda meant so little that he could ignore intelligence information suggesting a major attack was imminent in the coming weeks. Sin of hubris, anyone? Or incompetence, at best.

He did a great job at that, lobbing rockets into tents. I think he also took out a tylenol factory.
Those senators weren't president.
What could Bush have done with that kind of info? He did get the memo but it was slightly vague. What do you recommend he should have done?

Really. This is you; this is a clue.
Get a clue.

Personal attacks really show the true depths of your grasp on these points.

GaryPDX: Everyone needs their bogeyman.

the irony is strong with this one

CynicalLA:
Haha, nice troll.

"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion."

I supported my statement with facts. You called me a "troll" to irritate me and disrupt the conversation, especially since you added no other points.

You define "troll".

Um... Didn't Chavez just get to become President For Life?

/yea about that...

Hat Madder: ragekage
Hat Madder: Another leftist revolutionary who supports Obama. Some things never change.

1/10. C'mon, someone should have at least mentioned this somewhere in the thread, dude. You're not trying very hard. You need Remedial Troll 089, you're not even ready for Introductory Troll 101 yet.

Should have mentioned that he's a leftist revolutionary? You don't have to get past the very first sentence:

Teodoro Petkoff is a former leftist revolutionary and Cabinet minister...

Or that he supports Obama:

There are a lot of expectations with Obama. Opening up trade with Cuba, allowing tourism and cash transfers, easing the embargo -- all would be innocuous gestures for him

The thread's about Chavez; you're talking about one guy they interviewed to get some ideas of what he thinks'll happen with Chavez, then "LOL ZOMG OBAMAZ A LEFTESTIEST", as if anyone at or to the left of the level of Barry Goldwater wouldn't hope for good things from Obama, especially considering the last eight years.

I could point out there's people who want Obama to be assassinated, think women should be put in their "place", no taxes for anyone making over 250k a year, etc, and make the same claim you did on the opposite end of the spectrum. But I'm not a douchebag, so...

In other words, you made a fool of yourself again.

You meant to say "Fool me- won't get fooled again." Easy mistake.

TheBigJerk: I have mixed feelings about Chavez. The man himself is a joke, we've basically done nothing but point and laugh at him (some off-funding for an opposition newspaper doesn't matter when countered with his nationalization and chained broadcasts) and he is no threat to us.

I'd agree that he doesn't appear to be much of a threat at the moment but he's a first class idiot and his policies will eventually run his country into the ground. And there's the FARC problem.

Heard a few minutes of Thom Hartman's radio show today and he tried to argue Chavez's repeal of term limits on his office is no big deal, maybe even a good idea. He might as well of said, "Oh don't worry, it's just a 'phase' in the revolution." It's odd how much people who are left of center are drawn to this clown.

Oh yeah, and ILoveBeer3000 is a troll.

ILoveBeer3000:
[a lot of potentially good but unsubstantiated points needing citation]

- Carter not sending anyone to get our hostages in Iran for 444 days, then they release them on Reagan's inaguration


To be fair to Carter (and his many utter failures in the Middle East and elsewhere), a large part of this was Reagan's fault. He made a deal with the mullahs (who hated Carter for supporting Shah and befriending Saddam) to hold the hostages until the inauguration to help him win the election. The Iranian government was willing to release the hostages before the election, but neither they not the Republicans could pass up an opportunity to screw Carter over. And then Reagan started sending weapons to them.

ILoveBeer3000: Oil was the best thing to happen to Putin and Chavez, Israel is the best think for Ahmadinejad, and Bush was exactly what was needed to combat bin Laden's actions, previoulsy referred to as "police actions" by Dems.

Do you mean like when Dems always tell old people that Reps are going to take away their Medicare and Social Security during every campaign, or when Obama said McCain was going to play the race card?

Wow, my statement from before was dead-on. Dude, you couldn't get a clue if it was clue mating season, you smeared yourself with clue musk, and did the ritual clue mating dance. I mean, you're not even comparing the things we were talking about!

Bush was the best thing to ever happen to Al Qaeda; it was on his back they increased their organization tenfold over it's previous stature. He rallied thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, to their cause. And he had a big chance to not fark that up, if he had stayed out of Iraq; but he had that little excursion planned ahead of time. Saddam Hussein was an asshole, but it sure as hell wasn't worth bankrupting the country and killing and maiming thousands of our servicemen and women for.

And so Bush made an easy foil for all these assholes- hey, vot3 for me, or BUSH IS GONNA COME! Hell, supposedly Putin backed off in Georgia because the French president compared his action to Bush's. Now Al Qaeda can't raise any money or get new recruits, and Chavez and Ahmacrazyguy are having serious challenges to their power because the entire reason they were kept in power was to pit us-versus-them.

He did just send 70,000 more troops to Afghanistan.

17,000. I know, I know, you were told there would be no math- just needed to be pointed out.

He did a great job at that, lobbing rockets into tents. I think he also took out a tylenol factory.
Those senators weren't president.
What could Bush have done with that kind of info? He did get the memo but it was slightly vague. What do you recommend he should have done?

Weeelllll, one of them was proactive, the other was reactive. Guess who was who? Bush could have done a HELL of a lot with that info. I mean, damn, even if had raised the alarm and things still would have gone down, I think most of us would give him a pass for doing something, but he did nothing at all.

Personal attacks really show the true depths of your grasp on these points.

Yeah, okay, pal. You keep telling yourself that; whatever you can wrap around yourself as a comfort to the realities of the cold, hard world.

I really wish people would stop feeding the excruciatingly obvious trolls.

The Chewbacca Defense: I really wish people would stop feeding the excruciatingly obvious trolls.

They're just soooooooo cuuutttteeee!

Sources tell TIME that the former President [Bush I], who once famously referred to his Mexican-American grandchildren, including George P., as "the little brown ones," recently urged his son's campaign to hold a national Hispanic event aimed at luring Hispanics away from the Democrats.