i don't think we segregate racially so much as we segregate culturally. and that's really to be expected, regardless of race.

i don't care what race someone is, i just want to hang out with people who have the same interests as i do.

Help, I'm being oppressed! Come see the violence inherent in the system!

Butthurtmitter, does it sting because he's right?

yay! we're doomed!

Cowards like Barack Obama calling for Don Imus to be fired

Coward?

Eric Holder, I'd like to state..
NO U

2001
In the last week, those defending the pardon have offered Clinton's desire to help Israel as an explanation for what many have called inexplicable. Last Friday, at a House Government Reform Committee hearing on the Rich matter, former Deputy Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said that he changed his position on the Rich pardon after he heard about Israel's support of it.

----
2008
But the pardon cannot be excepted. It suggests that Holder, whatever his other qualifications, could not say no to power. The Rich pardon request had power written all over it -- the patronage of important Democratic fundraisers, for instance. Holder also said he was "really struck" by the backing of Rich by Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and the possibility of "foreign policy benefits that would be reaped by granting the pardon." This is an odd standard for American justice, but more than that, what was Holder thinking? That U.S.-Israeli relations would suffer? Holder does not sound naive. He sounds disingenuous.

NO U, Eric Holder.

I think that talking about race, and focusing on it incessantly, actually does more harm than good. If you focus on race, and define and categorize everyone you meet by those terms, then of course our nation won't be able to get past any racial issues it may have. See each other as humans, and stop focusing so much on race, and boom -- problem solved.

He's not saying this an exclusively white Americans' problem.

Bored Horde: Butthurtmitter, does it sting because he's right?

He is wrong, and (i can't believe I am saying this):

burndtdan: i don't think we segregate racially so much as we segregate culturally. and that's really to be expected, regardless of race.

i don't care what race someone is, i just want to hang out with people who have the same interests as i do.

This is right.

Um...no. He said we were "cowards on matters of race" and that "..most Americans avoid discussing awkward racial issues."

I am a white, northeast, academic. The people I have worked with for my entire career are TERRIFIED of discussing racial issues, and the number of euphemisms we have are....laughable. There is a reason so many upper middle class white kids flocked to President Obama the second he declared he was running.

We, as a nation, refuse to actually DISCUSS shameful past we have, so we try "fix" it by passing programs like affirmative action, which only perpetuate stereotypes and division.

And?

burndtdan: i don't care what race someone is, i just want to hang out with people who have the same interests as i do.

You're in NAMBLA?

/Kidding.
//Or maybe "joking" is a better word.

Party Boy: Coward?

Eric Holder, I'd like to state..
NO U

What does that have to do with what he said in any way shape or form?

TFA: "Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and I believe continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards,"

It hasn't thought of itself as a melting pot for decades. It has become a multicultural, multilingual society where 'diversity' is the rule of the land.

Hang On Voltaire: Cowards like Barack Obama calling for Don Imus to be fired

Having an honest discussion about race != Spouting racist epithets.

Nabb1: You're in NAMBLA?

you should stop projecting

what_now: I am a white, northeast, academic. The people I have worked with for my entire career are TERRIFIED of discussing racial issues,

its been my experience that Race issues are well tread concepts for U.S. academia. U.S. class issues are more taboo.

Lets test it.

What university are you with? Lets check the uni to see if there are any classes taught there on U.S. and race.

Lets then see if there are any on U.S. and class.

Ex: Immigration debate... race is well tread. Class is often omitted.

bulldg4life: Nabb1: You're in NAMBLA?

you should stop projecting

You should stop fantasizing.

bulldg4life: What does that have to do with what he said in any way shape or form?

Its Eric Holder's cowardice.
I'm applying a tu quoque there.

burndtdan: i don't think we segregate racially so much as we segregate culturally. and that's really to be expected, regardless of race.

i don't care what race someone is, i just want to hang out with people who have the same interests as i do.

Coward!

I for one want you all to know that I'm a brave man with a passing aquaintance or two to men or women of color. There is that one that works at the Dunkin Donuts across the street...and that guy who is a cop. I'm feeling braver all the time.

Party Boy: its been my experience that Race issues are well tread concepts for U.S. academia. U.S. class issues are more taboo

It's also interesting that Holder talks about needing to discuss issues of health care, education, etc. in terms of race and not class. It's clear there are a lot of poor white people who get terrible education and health care as well. Class, rather than race, is the true predictor of future success and is what affirmative action should be targeted at (if anything).

Dancin_In_Anson: 'diversity' is the rule of the land.

When people fear something, it becomes far greater in their mind than it really is. Sometimes to the point of absurdity.

And how is it Mr. Holder can get away with saying such things? Oh yeah .....

Party Boy: Ex: Immigration debate... race is well tread. Class is often omitted.

good point. the public debate on race is constant. but we don't discuss class because we like to think we're all middle class.

but class has a big influence on how a person looks at the world

Nabb1: You should stop fantasizing.

oooo, sick burn

Party Boy: Its Eric Holder's cowardice.
I'm applying a tu quoque there.

So, it doesn't have anything to do with what he said. Instead, since he acted in a disingenuous manner regarding a completely separate issue, he is wrong on this statement?

Dancin_In_Anson: It hasn't thought of itself as a melting pot for decades. It has become a multicultural, multilingual society where 'diversity' is the rule of the land.

HAHA! You've become Canada.

KaponoFor3: Class

its not a predictor.

I do post many sources on a decreased social mobility in the US, but its not something you can really predict.

DslainteC: You've become Canada.

with a worse national anthem but hotter women

He sounds uppity.

Seriously, the forces of political correctness, faux self-righteous outrage and (self-imposed) ancestral guilt, completely stifle honest conversation about these issues.

what_now: Um...no. He said we were "cowards on matters of race" and that "..most Americans avoid discussing awkward racial issues."

I am a white, northeast, academic. The people I have worked with for my entire career are TERRIFIED of discussing racial issues, and the number of euphemisms we have are....laughable.

We, as a nation, refuse to actually DISCUSS [the] shameful past we have, so we try "fix" it by passing programs like affirmative action, which only perpetuate stereotypes and division.

This. What's the first thing many of us are taught about what to do when we are involved in an automobile accident? DO NOT APOLOGIZE OR ADMIT GUILT, it makes you implicitly liable for the accident even if you are 0% at fault. After all, if you apologize, you must feel you are personally responsible, right? It's the same with the dialog about our nation's past.

albo: DslainteC: You've become Canada.

with a worse national anthem but hotter women

And superior professional hockey.

Oh, yeah, I went there.

albo: good point. the public debate on race is constant. but we don't discuss class because we like to think we're all middle class.

for the most part, we do think we're "middle."

bulldg4life: So, it doesn't have anything to do with what he said.

I'm up front about the NO U (tu quoque) and if he's going to point out cowardice, I'm going for the NO U. Just because

Diogenes: He's not saying this an exclusively white Americans' problem.

Bingo. That was exactly the way I read it, too. I do the same thing; nearly all my friends are gay, with about a handful of straight guys and maybe one or two women.

I am not sure if that is inherently racist, sexist, or whatever, but it does limit my exposure to those who diverge radically from my place in the world.

Then again, two of my friends are gay Republicans, one of which is black, and they might as well be farking aliens.

Party Boy: I'm up front about the NO U (tu quoque) and if he's going to point out cowardice, I'm going for the NO U. Just because

Well, that seems like quite a waste of time.

bulldg4life: Well, that seems like quite a waste of time.

Thats like, your opinion, man.

I know when the weekend comes, I always look forward to going to the 'hood and getting beat up. doesn't everyone?

bulldg4life:

that picture really tied the thread together

Party Boy: What university are you with? Lets check the uni to see if there are any classes taught there on U.S. and race.

Lets then see if there are any on U.S. and class.


I attended a very expensive private university. The class issues were FRONT AND CENTER as some students drove BMWs to class, and others worked in the cafeteria.

Race issues? Not so much. Poor white kids assumed that the black and hispanic kids were there on affirmative action, the Asians all hung out together, and the international students all wore too much cologne. Sure you can take a CLASS on "race in the US", but you didn't have serious discussions about how to bridge the divide, you just talked about "promoting diversity" and "accepting other cultures". These are simply SAFE WORDS!

You didn't hear anyone talking about mandatory minimums or religion, which would have been an "edgier" topic.

I_C_Weener: I for one want you all to know that I'm a brave man with a passing aquaintance or two to men or women of color.

one of my best smoking and video games buddies in college was black. another was gay. and another was 7 feet tall. and i only had 3.

so i've covered race, sexuality, and giantness.

Party Boy: its not a predictor.

Perhaps predictor was the wrong word. It's more correlated with future success than race is.

KaponoFor3: Class, rather than race, is the true predictor of future success and is what affirmative action should be targeted at (if anything).

QFT!!!

what_now: I attended a very expensive private university.

Party Boy: Lets test it.

What university are you with? Lets check the uni to see if there are any classes taught there on U.S. and race.

Lets then see if there are any on U.S. and class.

So, lets check the schedules, shall we?

A parking lot lineup doesnt qualify for a discussion on class. My suggestion is clean, and serves to help eliminate confirmation bias.

KaponoFor3: Perhaps predictor was the wrong word. It's more correlated with future success than race is.

ok

/pedantry off

Party Boy: A parking lot lineup doesnt qualify for a discussion on class. My suggestion is clean, and serves to help eliminate confirmation bias.

The parking lot thing was an analogy. We discussed the class differences, all the time. We shied far, far away from the racial ones for fear of being labeled "racist", or because we were stupid teenagers who thought we were "above" color.

I, BTW, agree with you w/r/t race vrs. class.

I think that this child:



probably has less advantages than these children:

In a speech to Justice Department employees marking Black History Month, Holder said the workplace is largely integrated but Americans still self-segregate on the weekends and in their private lives.

"Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and I believe continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards," said Holder, nation's first black attorney general.

Translation: "Nobody wants to hang out with me on weekends because I am black." No, it's probably because if this is what you believe you are a racialist whaargarbling douchebag, and a serious buzzkill to boot.

what_now: We discussed the class differences, all the time. We shied far, far away from the racial ones for fear of being labeled "racist", or because we were stupid teenagers who thought we were "above" color.

thanks,

Where I'm from, racial issues are brought up all the time. People look at me funny when I bring up class.

I figure a good way to get a more objective look at what you are saying

what_now: I am a white, northeast, academic. The people I have worked with for my entire career are TERRIFIED of discussing racial issues

Is to look at the academia where you are from to see if that pans out. An easy way to look at that is to see what classes are offered on U.S. and race, and U.S. and class.

Its truly not a personal attack, so don't take it like that. I just like to get to some results that might not be tainted by confirmation bias.

I also think its pretty easy to check. What are the results? If you don't want to check, thats cool. I'm not here to be a pushy jerk.

Harvard has a whole section on "whiteness studies."

whole student centers divided into race/ethnicity...

Wheres the poor folks student center?