At first I was like "why would I want to invest in a business run by criminals?" and then I realized that most of wall street are crooks and scam artists. These guys are honest about who and what they are and where they come from.....it's the dishonest criminals with an MBA that you have to watch out for.

Oh great - they're teaching complex financial engineering to people with a proven track record of limited ethical...

never mind.

Weaver95: At first I was like "why would I want to invest in a business run by criminals?" and then I realized that most of wall street are crooks and scam artists. These guys are honest about who and what they are and where they come from.....it's the dishonest criminals with an MBA that you have to watch out for.

Still, this goes beyond assuming most big-business types are crooks. I know crack dealers. They are not honest people, nor will they ever be.

I think some of those traders and bankers who made those stupid decisions wouldn't have made them if there was a chance their bodies would be found in some rancid dead-end alley because they were stabbed.

They're only paying attention because she's hot.

In order to manage risk we must first understand risk. How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk and what makes it so risky?

CaesarSneezy
Still, this goes beyond assuming most big-business types are crooks. I know crack dealers. They are not honest people, nor will they ever be.

Hey now! As an honest crack dealer who's always up front about what he cuts his drugs with and measures in front of the costumer, I find your remark insulting. Good day sir!

/not a crack dealer.

I'd show her my bidness skillz in pimpness.

That ho better go make me some money!

I was preparing a picture of Stringer Bell approving, but they mention The Wire in TFA!

As she talks about excel spread sheets, due diligence, final contracts

I'd spread the sheets with her.

Of course they don't understand it, the voice used to record the audio book is very annoying.

CaesarSneezy Quote 2009-02-15 08:34:39 PM


I know crack dealers. They are not honest people, nor will they ever be.


Well I bet you're just getting a kick out of these replies then, aren't you?

"They understand basic leadership and management principles, profitability."

Really? How so?

Felipe Dias is one of the convicts Catherine plans to redirect into a legitimate enterprise.

He was once a lieutenant of the Mexican Mafia gang and made tens of thousands of dollars a month importing drugs and selling firearms and stolen cars.

Ah. Okay.

I just remembered seeing this talk (by the guy who wrote Freakonomics) over at TED.com a while ago.

Steven Levitt: Why do crack dealers still live with their moms? (new window)

I love it when we treat prisoners as if they are in some way a disadvantaged class of unfortunate people who just need a break.

le sigh.


/they're CONVICTS...serving SENTENCES for CRIMES....oh whatever, let's "help these people less fortunate than ourselves in these worrying economic times" blah blah blah

Maybe it's just my idealist showing, but I'd imagine that the difficulties encountered by ex-cons have a sizable impact on the percentage who relapse. I have never seen a job application that doesn't ask about the applicant's criminal record. So, even those who initially intended to "lead honest lives" may soon find themselves broke, jobless, and desperate.

Sounds like this program is being extremely proactive. Kudos.

I think this is a very good idea. Assuming that "productivity" is a trait we value in a person, small gains in these individuals will amount to a great deal for society. If we use income to measure productivity, then these guys probably are better off.

Especially if it keeps them out of jail.

CaesarSneezy: Still, this goes beyond assuming most big-business types are crooks. I know crack dealers. They are not honest people, nor will they ever be.

Hey, look, I just sell a product, I don't force anyone to use it. Once it's out of my hands, my responsibility is over. If my customers choose to abuse my product, who's fault is that? Sure, I keep giving it to them even after they're in over their heads, but there's no reason why I should be punished for their behavior.

What? Ha ha, no, I'm not a crack dealer, I run the credit division at the bank. Say, it's looks like you've been pre-approved for our new Iridium Executive Card. It comes with cash-back and 10000 free airline miles. Care for a taste?

studebaker hoch: I love it when we treat prisoners as if they are in some way a disadvantaged class of unfortunate people who just need a break.

le sigh.


/they're CONVICTS...serving SENTENCES for CRIMES....oh whatever, let's "help these people less fortunate than ourselves in these worrying economic times" blah blah blah

Riiiiiight. Because heaven forbid we try to...y'know...rehabilitate prisoners as productive members of society. Based on TFA, it was pretty hard to qualify for this program. It was equally difficult to complete.


So, when faced with a prisoner who may one day have the ability to meaningfully contribute to society, we should make damned well sure that we don't do anything to develop him/her in that direction. Nope. We should simply lock 'em in a dark room with a moldy crust to gnaw. We should then complain bitterly about how expensive it is to keep him/her alive the next time s/he lands right back in prison.

Pure punitive FTW!

Came here for the "mergers and acquisitions" reference.

Leaving satisfied.

"They don't all understand risk management as well as they should because they all got busted when they came to prison, but when it comes to execution and marketing - they get it"

This cuts right to the heart of economic-analysis theories of crime deterrence. The difference is rationalization. People like to think they won't get caught and won't end up in prison. People like to think they'll be successful and make money.

The threat of a harsher prison sentence is only effective if you believe you might be caught, convicted, and sentenced. People can convince themselves that they won't, and some (often ex-cons) can convince themselves they don't care anyway. Similarly, people convince themselves that they can enter the business world and Get Rich.

Human rationalization trumps actual rational economic analysis almost every time.

Understands where the hot white woman's coming from.

Thanks for posting that Ted link YourOwnMedicine. That was well worth watching.

BuddyLuv

{Bateman pic}

Thank you.

"Another man, who served a 30 year sentence for multiple murders, got out aged 55 and is now profitably producing leather purses, belts and Bible covers."

.

Also helped cons understand the business and law ...

Hmmm . . . I just graduated with an MFA and owe tens of thousands of dollars for my education. There was never a mention of how to actually plan to make money to re-pay or eat or anything else. Do you think I could, you know, just sit-in for a bit?
Not really into the whole crime, court, prison thing.

What's a business plan, ROI? WTF?

Funny, not ha-ha funny

KnightsWhoPlayWii: Riiiiiight. Because heaven forbid we try to...y'know...rehabilitate prisoners as productive members of society. Based on TFA, it was pretty hard to qualify for this program. It was equally difficult to complete.

No, the problem is that we equate contributing to capitalism as contributing to a productive society.

I am really struck by the fact that both the military and corporations are now turning to ex-cons to fill their ranks. On one hand, this properly reeks of desperation. OTOH, what if they are successful, OMFG.

Old and well documented news (pops like a mofo)

Say what you will, dealing illegal drugs is the purest form of capitalism. Zero government oversight, a complex production and delivery chain, and prices directly proportional to supply and demand. Just glorious in the irony.

studebaker hoch

I love it when we treat prisoners as if they are in some way a disadvantaged class of unfortunate people who just need a break.

le sigh.

/they're CONVICTS...serving SENTENCES for CRIMES....oh whatever, let's "help these people less fortunate than ourselves in these worrying economic times" blah blah blah

Wow, you obviously did NOT read the story. Just to fill you in: they are exploiting the criminals. Someone with a profit motive (a former venture capitalist, for Pete's sake--you think venture capitalists have feelings?) decided that she could make some money by training and placing people with demonstrated real-world business experience, albeit illegal. She figured, probably correctly, that there'd be a niche market for this and no one was taking advantage of it.

As is often the case, the profit-driven way is a lot more effective than the touchy-feely-driven way.

de_Selby: . Also helped cons understand the business and law ...

That was a sad scene. Frankie Five-angels made some bad decisions and believed the wrong people.

As she talks about excel spread sheets, due diligence, final contracts and $10m (£6.9m) deals, about 40 men sit in rows behind her listen intently and take notes glad they aren't stuck in a cell, knowing that taking these classes looks good to the parole board... and memorizing her curves and the way she smells so they'll have something fresh to "wank-off" to later that night.

/fixed

She was working away on Wall Street then all of a sudden she realizes she's an idealist? There are elements of her story they're not telling.

"What's the deal with Ovaltine? The jar's round, the top is round. Why isn't it called 'Roundtine'?"

RandomAxe: "They don't all understand risk management as well as they should because they all got busted when they came to prison, but when it comes to execution and marketing - they get it"

This cuts right to the heart of economic-analysis theories of crime deterrence. The difference is rationalization. People like to think they won't get caught and won't end up in prison. People like to think they'll be successful and make money.

The threat of a harsher prison sentence is only effective if you believe you might be caught, convicted, and sentenced. People can convince themselves that they won't, and some (often ex-cons) can convince themselves they don't care anyway. Similarly, people convince themselves that they can enter the business world and Get Rich.

Human rationalization trumps actual rational economic analysis almost every time.

On the other hand, since these folks were the ones creating the risk in the first place, they're probably more aware of operational risk management issues than most corporate executives. There's plenty of rehabilitated criminals ^ and hackers^ that became highly successful security consultants after they repaid their debt to society.

As long as they screen out the sociopaths before enrolling them in the class...please don't teach entrepreneurship to sociopaths. The business world already has too many sociopaths.

there is no such thing as "a former member of the Mexican Mafia"

"Did someone say 'Risk Management'"?

So I went to college for 4 years. Stayed out of serious trouble and graduated. Apparently this is a complete disadvantage in the business world. I guess I should have been stealing cars, selling drugs, or murdering folks (preferably for money) so I could go to jail and get business help from Harvard and Wall Street venture capitalists. Our bailout money at work?


/Yes I'm aware of the huge amount of WHARGGGRRBBL in my post.

approves.

/ diversify yo bonds
// hotlinked

Put convicts into the business world? Might as well, we've already done the reverse.

worlddan: KnightsWhoPlayWii: Riiiiiight. Because heaven forbid we try to...y'know...rehabilitate prisoners as productive members of society. Based on TFA, it was pretty hard to qualify for this program. It was equally difficult to complete.

No, the problem is that we equate contributing to capitalism as contributing to a productive society.


Errrr...not really sure what realistic, positive alternatives you'd like to propose. These are people who have shown something approaching business acumen. This program helps them develop that. And yes, I do feel that "not being in jail" is a good first step toward becoming a "productive member of society."

Should we really be intentionally putting Wall Street business knowledge into the prison underworld?