The Alternative Minimum Tax has a tendency to move people into higher tax brackets over time due to inflation. Congress takes action on it from time to time to keep people from getting screwed by it.

In a poorly designed tax system it is one of the more poorly designed elements.

You don't have to make an unreasonable amount to be in the top 20%. Doctors, engineers and most other professional workers are in there.

...and it should come as no surprise who are the main beneficiaries of this.

keylock71: ..and it should come as no surprise who are the main beneficiaries of this.

Yeah, those douchebags in the Middle Class. You know the ones that actually pay income taxes.

sepuku2: keylock71: ..and it should come as no surprise who are the main beneficiaries of this.

Yeah, those douchebags in the Middle Class. You know the ones that actually pay income taxes.

Whatever you say, friend...

keylock71: ...and it should come as no surprise who are the main beneficiaries of this.

Anyone in the top 20% of wage earners? Which is only like $75k, hardly "the rich".

the middle class only pays so much in taxes on cause the poor haven't been paying enough !!!!! There can be no other reason why the burden has shifted into a range that affects so many people after we spent years sensibly lowering other taxes for the top tier people !!

EatHam: Anyone in the top 20% of wage earners? Which is only like $75k, hardly "the rich".

To put that another way, Americans in the middle 20% of incomes will get on average a whopping $52 because of Senator Grassley's demand, those in the second-highest 1/5th will get $502, while Americans in the top 1/5th of incomes will get an average $2,593 -- and that last one includes those in the top 5%, who will get an average of $4,511. This is what the WSJ calls "shielding millions of middle-income Americans from the so-called alternative minimum tax."

Do you dispute these numbers?

If not, do you think that this is a good idea?

Sorry-- the second italicized portion is quote from the article, not from EatHam.

EvilEgg: You don't have to make an unreasonable amount to be in the top 20%. Doctors, engineers and most other professional workers are in there.

Not to mentions millions of small business owners. Anyone with any property, a business ora few nickels to rub together and half a brain is running for cover from this calamity.

It's called a kill amendment. Include something that nobody wants in an effort to kill the entire piece of legislation.

Closing the MG registry in the 1986 GOPA is an excellent example of a kill amendment.

Roughly a third of this package is various forms of tax cuts. This is known, and both houses have agreed on it. What is the big deal?

The Republicans also stripped out the federal whistle-blower protections from the stimulus bill. In other words the provision to protect the jobs of people who expose fraudulent or wasteful spending was removed by the Republicans... so that the Republicans will be able to complain about fraudulent and wasteful spending in a couple years.

Part of the stimulus package is hugely expensive and will do very little to stimulate the economy.

FTFY.

Oh hell they pissed away a trillion dollars on Iraq, what's another sixty four billion?

As long as Obama honors his promise to post all legislation online for five days before signing it everything will be fine; we can all take a good hard look to make sure we're not being railroaded.

/He wants to what?..Monday? well, that didn't take long

Code_Archeologist: The Republicans also stripped out the federal whistle-blower protections from the stimulus bill. In other words the provision to protect the jobs of people who expose fraudulent or wasteful spending was removed by the Republicans... so that the Republicans will be able to complain about fraudulent and wasteful spending in a couple years.

lol, seriously? damn that's some cognitive dissonance.

Code_Archeologist: The Republicans also stripped out the federal whistle-blower protections from the stimulus bill. In other words the provision to protect the jobs of people who expose fraudulent or wasteful spending was removed by the Republicans... so that the Republicans will be able to complain about fraudulent and wasteful spending in a couple years.

I agree with you about this. However the finger pointing is useless. Both Parties wanted to put the AMT Patch in or it wouldn't have happened.

sepuku2: Both Parties wanted agreed to put the AMT Patch in or it the rest of the stimulus bill wouldn't have happened.

FTFY

keylock71: ...and it should come as no surprise who are the main beneficiaries of this.

The AMT snares many more people than it was ever intended to do because it was poorly thought out in its inception. Originally, the concept was aimed at truly high income earners (I think it only hit like 150 households when it was first passed), but over the years, with inflation and increased costs of living, the AMT has been creeping downward into middle income earners. Revising the AMT is one of politics' true Pandora's Box - Actually fixing it is going to cost many, many politicians on both sides of the aisle their seats. It's a fiscal nightmare to rectify on both sides of the ledger. As far as tax policy goes, it is the proverbial 400 lb. gorilla in the room. Kos is spinning this one pretty hard.

I_Love_Verdi: Code_Archeologist: The Republicans also stripped out the federal whistle-blower protections from the stimulus bill. In other words the provision to protect the jobs of people who expose fraudulent or wasteful spending was removed by the Republicans... so that the Republicans will be able to complain about fraudulent and wasteful spending in a couple years.

lol, seriously? damn that's some cognitive dissonance.

Link to story (new window)

Nabb1: Kos is spinning this one pretty hard.

KOS doesn't spin. They have got to be the most unbiased news sites I've ever seen.

/MSNBC is a close second
//...kinda

Ryan2065: KOS doesn't spin. They have got to be the most unbiased news sites I've ever seen.

/MSNBC is a close second
//...kinda

News? KOS? Are you kidding me? KOS isn't news. It's a blog. I don't care whether you agree with KOS or don't or like it or don't; it's a blog. KOS doesn't have any reporters or an editorial staff vetting facts before running pieces. They just cull information from other sites, some news, some just other blogs, and use them to argue their positions. News? I hope you're trolling and I just bit hard on it because I haven't had my coffee quota yet.

Nabb1: News? KOS? Are you kidding me? KOS isn't news. It's a blog. I don't care whether you agree with KOS or don't or like it or don't; it's a blog. KOS doesn't have any reporters or an editorial staff vetting facts before running pieces. They just cull information from other sites, some news, some just other blogs, and use them to argue their positions. News? I hope you're trolling and I just bit hard on it because I haven't had my coffee quota yet.

Nabb your sarcasm meter might need tuning on this one.

Nabb1: News? KOS? Are you kidding me? KOS isn't news. It's a blog. I don't care whether you agree with KOS or don't or like it or don't; it's a blog. KOS doesn't have any reporters or an editorial staff vetting facts before running pieces.

Blogs are the new news sites.

Nabb1: They just cull information from other sites, some news, some just other blogs, and use them to argue their positions.

They offer a unique perspective on a wide range of topics that are always right.

Nabb1: News? I hope you're trolling and I just bit hard on it because I haven't had my coffee quota yet.

I thought obvious jokes weren't trolls.

sepuku2: Nabb your sarcasm meter might need tuning on this one.

Damned discount batteries.

Ryan2065: I thought obvious jokes weren't trolls.

Hey, there are some true believers around here that would consider KOS a news site and John Stewart Edward R. Murrow.

Nabb1: Hey, there are some true believers around here that would consider KOS a news site and John Stewart Edward R. Murrow.

You leave John Stewart out of this!

Nabb1
Hey, there are some true believers around here that would consider KOS a news site and John Stewart Edward R. Murrow.

Jon Stewart is a smart guy who's damned funny, but he's no Edward R. Murrow. That would be Keith Olbermann!
/Good night and good luck.
//baits the hook

EatHam: keylock71: ...and it should come as no surprise who are the main beneficiaries of this.

Anyone in the top 20% of wage earners? Which is only like $75k, hardly "the rich".

This. If we're to believe Obama's rhetoric from the campaign trail, he was trying to focus the tax hikes on $250k earners and greater. I'd think adjusting the AMT would be along those same lines.

But, what do I know? I'm not an economist, and I sure the hell ain't in the top 20% bracket.

arkansas: The Alternative Minimum Tax has a tendency to move people into higher tax brackets over time due to inflation. Congress takes action on it from time to time to keep people from getting screwed by it.

In a poorly designed tax system it is one of the more poorly designed elements.

The AMT needs to be f*cking repealed. But of course, we won't do it. Because it's designed to screw 'the rich' but ends up screwing the rest of us instead, nobody wants to admit that the Holy Tax Code makes mistakes. Nobody in D.C. wants to contradict scripture....you get burned at the stake for heresy!

I see "shift the blame" is full on and the bill hasn't even passed yet.

the only time a crony capitalist republican doesn't mind the government spending money is when that money is going to the crony capitalist republican.

if its going to help the country or the middle class, there's a problem.

why do you NEVER hear a republican Fukkk say the words "middle class"

isn't that odd...................

To put that another way, Americans in the middle 20% of incomes will get on average a whopping $52 because of Senator Grassley's demand, those in the second-highest 1/5th will get $502, while Americans in the top 1/5th of incomes will get an average $2,593 -- and that last one includes those in the top 5%, who will get an average of $4,511. This is what the WSJ calls "shielding millions of middle-income Americans from the so-called alternative minimum tax."

So where are these numbers? Top 5% is what in income amounts? 20%?

PART of the stimulus package is hugely expensive?!

I'm somewhat on the side of the thing, but let's not fool ourselves. The whole thing is hugely expensive.

Weaver95: The AMT needs to be f*cking repealed. But of course, we won't do it. Because it's designed to screw 'the rich' but ends up screwing the rest of us instead, nobody wants to admit that the Holy Tax Code makes mistakes. Nobody in D.C. wants to contradict scripture....you get burned at the stake for heresy!

Repealing it will leave a big gaping hole in tax revenues that will have to be made up elsewhere. Conversely, the longer they delay it, the more people it will effect, making the revenue hole even larger, and the political price even worse. The horse left the barn years ago, but the current crop of politicians on both sides of the aisle are too scared to meet it head on and would rather keep passing the buck.

Ryan2065: Nabb1: Kos is spinning this one pretty hard.

KOS doesn't spin. They have got to be the most unbiased news sites I've ever seen.

/MSNBC is a close second
//...kinda

uber trollish there, not biting... no one can be that intellectually dishonest.

Obdicut: To put that another way, Americans in the middle 20% of incomes will get on average a whopping $52 because of Senator Grassley's demand, those in the second-highest 1/5th will get $502, while Americans in the top 1/5th of incomes will get an average $2,593 -- and that last one includes those in the top 5%, who will get an average of $4,511. This is what the WSJ calls "shielding millions of middle-income Americans from the so-called alternative minimum tax."

Do you dispute these numbers?

If not, do you think that this is a good idea?

I dispute the idea that they are "getting" anything. They are reducing the amount they are giving, not getting anything.

However, I understand the real point you are making, and I would say that I don't think it's a good idea. I think that everyone should get far more than that, with the people on the lower end of the income scale getting more than the people on the top end.

IXI Jim IXI: PART of the stimulus package is hugely expensive?!

I'm somewhat on the side of the thing, but let's not fool ourselves. The whole thing is hugely expensive.

Debt financing, more of the same. Same ol' necon tactics, 'tax cuts' and giving more to the people, what a farking joke.

The top 20% don't make very much money at all. In fact 80% of all Americans fit into the category.

Skorkles: To put that another way, Americans in the middle 20% of incomes will get on average a whopping $52 because of Senator Grassley's demand, those in the second-highest 1/5th will get $502, while Americans in the top 1/5th of incomes will get an average $2,593 -- and that last one includes those in the top 5%, who will get an average of $4,511. This is what the WSJ calls "shielding millions of middle-income Americans from the so-called alternative minimum tax."

So where are these numbers?
Top 5% is what in income amounts?
Alot

20%?
Less than top 5%

/Lou reporting

It;s not fark, it's DNC

GOD DAMN ALL three GOP SUNSABIATCHES involved in this!

FTA:

"And that is why school building projects have to be scrapped."

Wow, thats like a 2/10 Fark Troll comment, and it's actually in the content of this so called "article."

Are there idiots that read that and actually believe it?

Continually linking to this site is making Fark look silly. Find some real fake news to report, not this garbage.

Thou shall NOT criticize the Stimulus Package lest thou be labelled an obstructionist partisan. All that is contained in the bill is beyond question and reproach.

keylock71: ...and it should come as no surprise who are the main beneficiaries of this.

I know you were told there would be no math, but

Turns out if you don't pay taxes, then tax cuts don't benefit you.

And if you are in the highest tax bracket, then tax cuts benefit you the most.

Kos apparently doesn't understand the AMT.

ZachF81: Wow, thats like a 2/10 Fark Troll comment, and it's actually in the content of this so called "article."

The lady doth protest too much.

Feeling a little guilty, maybe?

cchris_39: Turns out if you don't pay taxes, then tax cuts don't benefit you.

If you don't pay taxes and are healthy you shouldn't get a penny.

3_Butt_Cheeks: Thou shall NOT criticize the Stimulus Package lest thou be labelled an obstructionist partisan.

I have no problem with debate over the stimulus bill. It's the butthurt bastards in Congress that stonewall it with nothing to provide as an alternative that I want sprayed down with firehoses.