Their intentions are very honorable. Imperfections is what makes some music special and gives it flavour. Spending too much digitalizing everything will make all your music sound generic and sterile

HappyHarryHardOn: Their intentions are very honorable. Imperfections is what makes some music special and gives it flavour. Spending too much digitalizing everything will make all your music sound generic and sterile

Mix this with a ban on excessive use of compression to increase loudness and we might be on to something.

Good luck with that.

Meh. Anyone who is even a half-decent music snob can hear auto-tune a mile away, and any musician with half-decent taste doesn't use it. The tone-deaf masses aren't going to quit listening to Britney Spears and find a real musician just because she stops using it, so who really cares?

Used sparingly, auto-tune is a great tool. Yes, if your job description as a musician is "Vocalist", and you're dependent on it, it's bullshiat, and I'm just as tired of hearing it in every single Top-40 track as the next guy (although, who listens to that tripe anyway?).

But all I'm saying is that in the right hands, it's pretty fricking sweet. And, Glasgowsfinest is absolutely right, and I blame Pro Tools. The wave form for a track should NOT be a solid block.

Glasgowsfinest: HappyHarryHardOn: Their intentions are very honorable. Imperfections is what makes some music special and gives it flavour. Spending too much digitalizing everything will make all your music sound generic and sterile

Mix this with a ban on excessive use of compression to increase loudness and we might be on to something.

So much this.
Probably the main reason I have difficulties listening to new rock... Guitars that clean sounding, that crisp and that compressed just seems to me everything rock is NOT. I like muddled notes, I like a bum sound here and there. especially, I like that amp hiss between chords...

When I hear that perfect digital silence between notes, it really can put me off

HappyHarryHardOn: Glasgowsfinest: HappyHarryHardOn: Their intentions are very honorable. Imperfections is what makes some music special and gives it flavour. Spending too much digitalizing everything will make all your music sound generic and sterile

Mix this with a ban on excessive use of compression to increase loudness and we might be on to something.

So much this.
Probably the main reason I have difficulties listening to new rock... Guitars that clean sounding, that crisp and that compressed just seems to me everything rock is NOT. I like muddled notes, I like a bum sound here and there. especially, I like that amp hiss between chords...

When I hear that perfect digital silence between notes, it really can put me off

I feel you, man. I have the same thing with metal and rock in general. Every guitarist has like a gazillion pedals/patches and whatnot.(not to mention all that studiomagic)

HotLonelyTeenageGirl: The wave form for a track should NOT be a solid block.

Are you saying that this is a bad thing?:

HappyHarryHardOn: Glasgowsfinest: HappyHarryHardOn: Their intentions are very honorable. Imperfections is what makes some music special and gives it flavour. Spending too much digitalizing everything will make all your music sound generic and sterile

Mix this with a ban on excessive use of compression to increase loudness and we might be on to something.

So much this.
Probably the main reason I have difficulties listening to new rock... Guitars that clean sounding, that crisp and that compressed just seems to me everything rock is NOT. I like muddled notes, I like a bum sound here and there. especially, I like that amp hiss between chords...

When I hear that perfect digital silence between notes, it really can put me off

My favorite thing to hear is the musicians having a good time. It makes me smile when a guitarist or singer hits a sour note and has to cover it up.

I love it when a singer comes in half a bar late or screws up a verse. It reminds me that it's real and not just an over-produced digital meat-beating session.

In other news, indie hipster douchebags jump on bandwagon 5 years too late.

I don't know about auto-tune, but Tom Waits certainly isn't above punch-ins. I've noticed a few.

Tom might sound like like four pounds of broken glass glass dragged over a rabid badger in the midst of a vicious hangover, but he hits the notes. The badger has a pretty good ear for all that.

What does 'death cab for cutie' mean anyway?

/i heard it was a reference to a poem about poisoned wine at one point, but that's a long shot...

I want to punch the lead singer of death cab for cutie in the face, tell him to man up, and go outside and play football.

and i listen to radiohead, so you know, just saying.

Also how about banning virtual instruments? Which are basically samples on steroids made so you don't have to call up a string section if you want one or you don't have to call in a sax player if you want some sax.

/the simple fact it takes longer to work with them would make you think they'd be ditched as is

I hate Death Cab, but I kind of agree with them. I hate over mixed music. The fact that there are people out there who don't notice it is more than irritating (I swear I've heard people talk about how Paris Hilton's voice was "surprisingly decent sounding!")

STFU Death Cab For Cutie, you're giving the Seattle music scene a bad name. I'm tired of their hipster/emo/whiny music. It's farking monotone garbage that I listen to when I poop at a nice restaurant.

FU!

ne2d: but Tom Waits certainly isn't above punch-ins

Punch ins are no big deal, but fixing up singing to be something it isn't, well that's not such a good thing.

/Props to them for calling out Auto-Tune......I can't stand musical acts that use it in every song like it's supposed to be there.

What's the word on Neil Young? Please say no.

HappyHarryHardOn: Glasgowsfinest: HappyHarryHardOn: Their intentions are very honorable. Imperfections is what makes some music special and gives it flavour. Spending too much digitalizing everything will make all your music sound generic and sterile

Mix this with a ban on excessive use of compression to increase loudness and we might be on to something.

So much this.
Probably the main reason I have difficulties listening to new rock... Guitars that clean sounding, that crisp and that compressed just seems to me everything rock is NOT. I like muddled notes, I like a bum sound here and there. especially, I like that amp hiss between chords...

When I hear that perfect digital silence between notes, it really can put me off


I'm here to this your this. I like music that sounds like music. I want to hear something people played, not something a computer shiat out. Not that there isn't a place for certain effects, but in general I would rather listen to a clunky and underproduced but well-intention song than any crystal clear digitally enhanced piece of garbage.

Rock is supposed to be dirty.

Good music died with Jim Morrison. Then it died again with Ian Curtis. Then it died again with Kurt Cobain. Now Radiohead is good but everyone else sucks.

/How was that?

Michael Stipe was left off of your list as well.

I've tried to explain this to people that one of the reasons I don't like current pop music (besides the crappiness) is what they do to the vocals. It's the audio equivalent of airbrushing someone until they look like a mannequin.

I could listen to PiL for hours but ten seconds of some pop tartlet whining out the newest dance song makes me want to break things.

Ant: HotLonelyTeenageGirl: The wave form for a track should NOT be a solid block.

Are you saying that this is a bad thing?:

That's from the new Metallica album, isn't it?

There's auto-tuning and then there's pitch correction. I have a little home hobby studio (yes, with Pro Tools) and Celemony Melodyne, which is a pitch correction plugin. I use it on my vocals to touch-up what I sing but as long as I'm within 1/2 a step or less it's basically unnoticeable.

And I love MIDI and virtual instruments for drums, pianos, organs and other parts that aren't guitars and basses because for my purposes they are excellent solutions. My VI drummer is very very good, with clean sounding samples and just the right variation in groove and sample that it sounds very real.

Were I a pro, though, I'd use the real instruments of course.

At this time, we should all bow our heads and pray for Omarion.

Bob Ondeeznuts
STFU Death Cab For Cutie, you're giving the Seattle music scene a bad name. I'm tired of their hipster/emo/whiny music. It's farking monotone garbage that I listen to when I poop at a nice restaurant.

FU!

I'll sit through hipster, emo, and whiny, but when you get to calling them monotonous I have to wonder if you've ever heard a Death Cab album. There may be many reasons not to like them but they're nothing if not rich in sound.

Auto-tune is awesome. Sure, it can be abused (looking at you T-Pain), but it can also be used artistically. Its another musical tool. Which is kind of what Death Cab For Cutie are collectively. Heh.

Also another reason pop vocals sound so awful these days is compositing. Imagine taking 30 takes then cut and pasting together one take from the "best" of each take. Sometimes one line is pasted together from different takes for each word.

organizm: Good music died with Jim Morrison. Then it died again with Ian Curtis. Then it died again with Kurt Cobain. Now Radiohead is good but everyone else sucks.

/How was that?

*golf clap*

I would personally add Charlie Parker and Robert Johnson to make the idiocy evolution complete.

Brettster808: Good luck with that.

this is a retarded effort to offend the masses. Since I have never really heard of this group, they must be decent.

HappyHarryHardOn:
mostlygray:
Hibno:

I totally agree with you guys, but I think there is a downside. When I was watching Colbert last night that TV on the Radio band was on (and what a charismatic bunch of young men they were) and while there definitely wasn't any crisp silence, there also wasn't anything discernible that could be called a song. It sounded like they went out of their way to avoid that but ended up with the instruments sounding like they were being played inside a padded room. I wouldn't call it "tinny" because it didn't have a metallic echo, it was more of a sound absorption that made everything sound flat.

I'm not a musician and I don't know how far away from the idiot masses I am, if at all. But it seems like just as many bands could be found guilty of going for that over-underproduced sort of melange sound where nothing really fits together in tempo or, I'm not really sure how to explain how it struck me, I guess in attitude.

Glasgowsfinest: HappyHarryHardOn: Their intentions are very honorable. Imperfections is what makes some music special and gives it flavour. Spending too much digitalizing everything will make all your music sound generic and sterile

Mix this with a ban on excessive use of compression to increase loudness and we might be on to something.

One of the funniest things about modern technology is how so many parameters like dynamic range (of recording mediums) are in the 400dB range (kidding). When I tell people that I still use reel to reel tape at home they tell me how "inferior" analog is, but realistically, pop music has about 10dB of dynamic range. Everything's so loud too that any hiss is buried anyways...
It's funny to me, that's all. Given a perfect medium like digital, people quickly go to extremes to ruin it.
In the 60s and 70s, given media with imperfections like tape and vinyl, people went to extremes to make it as perfect as possible...
Which is why I'm one of those vinyl freaks. I have stuff pressed in the 70s that sounds real, you know? It sounds like there's a piano in my room.
Proper analog recording techniques beat junky digital tricks any day.

god i hate auto tune. i was glad to find out what it was called so i could give a name to my hatred

Jamdug!
What does 'death cab for cutie' mean anyway?

It's from Magical Mystery Tour.

Wikipedia is your friend...

bighasbeen: HappyHarryHardOn:
mostlygray:
Hibno:

I totally agree with you guys, but I think there is a downside. When I was watching Colbert last night that TV on the Radio band was on (and what a charismatic bunch of young men they were) and while there definitely wasn't any crisp silence, there also wasn't anything discernible that could be called a song. It sounded like they went out of their way to avoid that but ended up with the instruments sounding like they were being played inside a padded room. I wouldn't call it "tinny" because it didn't have a metallic echo, it was more of a sound absorption that made everything sound flat.

I'm not a musician and I don't know how far away from the idiot masses I am, if at all. But it seems like just as many bands could be found guilty of going for that over-underproduced sort of melange sound where nothing really fits together in tempo or, I'm not really sure how to explain how it struck me, I guess in attitude.

Got a link to a vid?

But it sounds like they didnt have enough reverb in the mix.

Oh yeah...
Link (new window)

Don't ban auto-tune. Let the losers use it, and let the idiots buy it.

However, choose your bands more carefully, so that they really challenge you. Avoid the music business, and think about musicians. Go see them live. Avoid the ones that are probably just dancing to prerecorded tracks. Reward challenge. Make them work for a living.

And allow them to earn a living - pay for their stuff directly whenever possible. Pretend you're a patron, providing money to the starving artist so that they can practice their art - and bring you pleasure.

I don't care what anyone says, but t-pain is the coolest motherfarker around. Not even talking about his music.

Who the fark is Death Cab for Cutie?

WOW.

a music thread where everyone agrees? I think we have touched on something important here

I remember how I was explained Analog-recorded album vs digital when I was a teen.... I was marveling at a COltrane album and I told my friend about how I loved the way they recorded it. My friend laughed at me and explained that there was one mike for the entire band: The drummer, bass and coltrane all gathered around it.

that's it. And it sounded spectacular. Like the band was right next to you. You could almost hear the fabric of their jackets rubbing against their sleeves

this is when I understood I was going to be an analog loyalist till the day I die.

I can appreciate a Radiohead album that obviously cost $750,000 in studio fees.... but it will never, ever, ever compare to the rush I get from listening to (for example) The Stooges '"Funhouse" and hearing that bass wobble all over the place, desperately trying not to go out of step, and once in a while hitting that bum note.. ah, man... sweet

Bob Ondeeznuts: STFU Death Cab For Cutie, you're giving the Seattle music scene a bad name. I'm tired of their hipster/emo/whiny music. It's farking monotone garbage that I listen to when I poop at a nice restaurant.

FU!

Wow. You haven't actually heard much Death Cab, have you? I agree that a whole metric assload of "emo" or otherwise "indie" is just utter garbage. But Death Cab is an actual band with serious songwriting chops, poignant vocals/lyrics, etc. And if there is anyone at all who hates hipsters, it's me. I don't see DCFC factoring into the hipster/wentz/emo vortex of self-assigned cool.

Stay Cool Babylon: Bob Ondeeznuts: STFU Death Cab For Cutie, you're giving the Seattle music scene a bad name. I'm tired of their hipster/emo/whiny music. It's farking monotone garbage that I listen to when I poop at a nice restaurant.

FU!

Wow. You haven't actually heard much Death Cab, have you? I agree that a whole metric assload of "emo" or otherwise "indie" is just utter garbage. But Death Cab is an actual band with serious songwriting chops, poignant vocals/lyrics, etc. And if there is anyone at all who hates hipsters, it's me. I don't see DCFC factoring into the hipster/wentz/emo vortex of self-assigned cool.

But they are horrible. And boring. Auto-Tune abuse is an awful thing, but Death Cab is the most awful thing.

HotLonelyTeenageGirl: and I blame Pro Tools. The wave form for a track should NOT be a solid block.

Wait, what?

Last I checked Pro Tools didn't make the engineer or producer's decisions.

AgentOrangeDrink: Stay Cool Babylon: Bob Ondeeznuts: STFU Death Cab For Cutie, you're giving the Seattle music scene a bad name. I'm tired of their hipster/emo/whiny music. It's farking monotone garbage that I listen to when I poop at a nice restaurant.

FU!

Wow. You haven't actually heard much Death Cab, have you? I agree that a whole metric assload of "emo" or otherwise "indie" is just utter garbage. But Death Cab is an actual band with serious songwriting chops, poignant vocals/lyrics, etc. And if there is anyone at all who hates hipsters, it's me. I don't see DCFC factoring into the hipster/wentz/emo vortex of self-assigned cool.

But they are horrible. And boring. Auto-Tune abuse is an awful thing, but Death Cab is the most awful thing.

Value judgments...we all make them. I'm sure that there are a ton of things we disagree on. Excpet bald p*ssy. Because everyone loves bald p*ssy.

tshetter: bighasbeen: HappyHarryHardOn:
mostlygray:
Hibno:

I totally agree with you guys, but I think there is a downside. When I was watching Colbert last night that TV on the Radio band was on (and what a charismatic bunch of young men they were) and while there definitely wasn't any crisp silence, there also wasn't anything discernible that could be called a song. It sounded like they went out of their way to avoid that but ended up with the instruments sounding like they were being played inside a padded room. I wouldn't call it "tinny" because it didn't have a metallic echo, it was more of a sound absorption that made everything sound flat.

I'm not a musician and I don't know how far away from the idiot masses I am, if at all. But it seems like just as many bands could be found guilty of going for that over-underproduced sort of melange sound where nothing really fits together in tempo or, I'm not really sure how to explain how it struck me, I guess in attitude.

Got a link to a vid?

But it sounds like they didnt have enough reverb in the mix.

Here ya go (new window)

bighasbeen: When I was watching Colbert last night that TV on the Radio band was on

Their newest album is some of the most infectious stuff I've ever heard. Seriously - if I'm in a horrible mood that album never fails to put a stupid grin on my face. I haven't been digging the earlier stuff as much, but "Dear Science" hasn't left my rotation in like a month, which is damned long time considering that we all have access to like a quadrillion different albums these days.

/semi-jack. sorry

mostlygray: My favorite thing to hear is the musicians having a good time. It makes me smile when a guitarist or singer hits a sour note and has to cover it up.

Or they just come right out and say they screwed up and have to start the song all over.

8/16/87 at Telluride, Jerry Garcia can be heard saying "Wait a minute, this is all farked up....We're in the wrong key" about 45 seconds into Brokedown Palace - so they start over.

Link (new window)

IIRC, there was also a Hell In a Bucket at the Meadowlands where (so I'm told, Weir looked up when it was time to start singing apparently thinking the mike-stand was right in front of him and the band just kind of winds it down and restarts).

I've heard live recordings of Neil Young having to start over too (I'll have to dig that one up - I believe it was over a minute into Hurricane.)

And of course, there's Gov't Mule releasing a live album with the tagline "No overdubs, no editing, no apologies."

Then, Zappa who would just humiliate the band members for farking up (or maybe he was just messing around).

From Make a Jazz Noise Here:

Well . . . Ike Willis, ladies and gentlemen . . . Mike Keneally . . . Walt Fowler . . . Bruce Fowler . . . Paul Carman . . . Albert Wing . . . Kurt McGettrick . . . Chad Wackerman . . . Now this is a special case, ladies and gentlemen, get that spot light over here, this is Ed Mann. Now, Ed had a tragic experience a few moments ago. One of the loyal fans in the audience came up and treated him like a war criminal because he farked up the lick on "Dickie's Such An Asshole" way back when--who knows?--several weeks ago. But the people who come to these shows listen so carefully to every little detail that this man was deeply offended by Ed's performance. So to make sure that he gets his money's worth tonight, we're gonna dwell on it for a few moments now, and have Ed actually practice, kinda warm up for that big lick that happens in "Dickie's Such An Asshole." We're gonna rehearse it right now, ready? Just do it as a solo, here we go

Some Bass Playing Guy: HotLonelyTeenageGirl: and I blame Pro Tools. The wave form for a track should NOT be a solid block.

Wait, what?

Last I checked Pro Tools didn't make the engineer or producer's decisions.

Don't you get it? This is a "yay analog, boo digital" music thread. It's where people regurgitate facts from that Steve Albini essay they read one time.

I know just enough about recording to know that I don't know much about recording, which seems to be more than most people in here.