Welcome to my hell. $11.30 for a 25 pack.

RYO

either subby or the articles writer is smoking something if they think people will actually quit.

I have absolutely no problem with taxing the bejesus out of cigarettes.

But laws mandating that all bars and other watering-hole types of establishments go smoke-free, regardless of what the owner wants, make me crazy.

The Lung Association official told the Post as more people quit smoking, the decline in sales with reduce tax revenues that pay for state health programs.

No problem, they'll just raise taxes on something else. food, probably. the state will find something that's popular, dummy up some faux science report that 'proves' that [insert item here] is 'dangerous' and then jack taxes up on it to make up the difference. And nobody will complain...

Weaver95: And nobody will complain...

Unlikely. I've been complaining about sin taxes for years. Nobody listens, but it doesn't stop me.

Pocket Ninja: I have absolutely no problem with taxing the bejesus out of cigarettes.

But laws mandating that all bars and other watering-hole types of establishments go smoke-free, regardless of what the owner wants, make me crazy.

I suppose laws mandating that restaurants refrigerate food regardless of what the owner wants make you crazy too?

propasaurus: I suppose laws mandating that restaurants refrigerate food regardless of what the owner wants make you crazy too?

That's an excellent analogy, and don't let anybody tell you any differently.

MorrisBird: Weaver95: And nobody will complain...

Unlikely. I've been complaining about sin taxes for years. Nobody listens, but it doesn't stop me.

individually we complain, but look at how many people support strict regulation of liquor, tobacco and even seat belts. The 'safety' crowd are frighteningly stupid and narrow minded about the wider effects of their policy positions. If they think it makes them 'safe' then they vote for it in droves. And not once does any of those mindless sheep stop and thing for one moment about the erosion of the 4th or 5th amendments.

Anywho, larger issue rant aside, I think state governments are gonna jack up food prices next.

subby: "Bad news: This will reduce the revenue stream for all the other health programs"

Better news: When the insane costs of treating smoking-related illnesses decrease, it will free up money for all the other health programs.

Admittedly this will take a while, as lots of sick smokers seem to think that anything less than twenty years of emphysema and bloody lung oysters simply isn't trying hard enough.

Weaver95: seat belts

Really?

There's a fine line between libertarian and just plain dumb. Proudly not wearing a seat belt isn't a libertarian act. But I will agree it's a bad idea to start ticketing or fining people for not wearing them. That's giving police more power than they should have. But let 'em not it in the accident report and let the insurance companies decide who pays the difference between a less serious injury and lifelong disabilities or death.

It's amazing how many people from New York stop in their travels elsewhere just to buy massive quantities of cigarettes. We have an enormous outlet outside of Smithfield on I-95 which sells only by the carton, and often sells deals of multiple cartons. I'm sure half of their sold product ends up within the borders of New York. You can thank Albany for the money they give Raleigh.

Pocket Ninja: But laws mandating that all bars and other watering-hole types of establishments go smoke-free, regardless of what the owner wants, make me crazy.

Its a health hazard. Are you against all safety inspections in restaurants and bars as well?

"Fair" has no place in taxation, as demonstrated time and time again.

bartink: Pocket Ninja: But laws mandating that all bars and other watering-hole types of establishments go smoke-free, regardless of what the owner wants, make me crazy.

Its a health hazard. Are you against all safety inspections in restaurants and bars as well?

it's not a health hazard, it's a lame ass excuse for control freaks to live out their BDSM fantasies via legislative means.

Good news for these guys...

co-conspirator: Better news: When the insane costs of treating smoking-related illnesses decrease, it will free up money for all the other health programs.

Admittedly this will take a while, as lots of sick smokers seem to think that anything less than twenty years of emphysema and bloody lung oysters simply isn't trying hard enough.

I'm too lazy to google it, but some scandinavian (i think) country contemplated raising taxes on smokers on the idea that they cost more in health care costs.

So they studied it and found out that smokers actually cost the health care system less, since they tend to die much younger and don't have to receive all those expensive drugs and procedures that the old folks do.

BAH!

They're just implement yet another lottery game!

Pocket Ninja: propasaurus: I suppose laws mandating that restaurants refrigerate food regardless of what the owner wants make you crazy too?

That's an excellent analogy, and don't let anybody tell you any differently.

I agree.
I would argue that it is the greatest analogy ever written.

I imagine that there is a substantial black market for cigarettes now?
New Yorkers?

bartink: Pocket Ninja: But laws mandating that all bars and other watering-hole types of establishments go smoke-free, regardless of what the owner wants, make me crazy.

Its a health hazard. Are you against all safety inspections in restaurants and bars as well?

Maybe we should stop serving alcohol in bars because it affects health? I can see it now, A liberal walks into a bar. Bartender says "why the long face?" (because liberal has a horseface.) the liberal asks what the speicals are. "water, $4.25 draft and $3.50 bottel and shots of milk for $3". Then the liberal is satisfied because this is his paradise. Also he can only afford to pay his tab because he took money from me. SO this limousine liberal is living it up drinking water and milk and driving his hybrid limousine and meanwhile Im broke and can bearly afford my $10 pack of cigarettes. Its a slippery slope.

Goetz: I imagine that there is a substantial black market for cigarettes now?
New Yorkers?

Please dont play the race card. The term is free market and yes, it exists and its what made this country great. I dont understand why the government gets to make cigarettes 10 dollars anyway, the free market should determine prices. The governments job is to fight terrorists NOT to fix prices.

Weaver95: it's not a health hazard, it's a lame ass excuse for control freaks to live out their BDSM fantasies via legislative means.

Translation : It's not a health hazard because I say so! Damn all the research.

Sad, infantile.

StopArrestingMe: Maybe we should stop serving alcohol in bars because it affects health? I can see it now, A liberal walks into a bar. Bartender says "why the long face?" (because liberal has a horseface.) the liberal asks what the speicals are. "water, $4.25 draft and $3.50 bottel and shots of milk for $3". Then the liberal is satisfied because this is his paradise. Also he can only afford to pay his tab because he took money from me. SO this limousine liberal is living it up drinking water and milk and driving his hybrid limousine and meanwhile Im broke and can bearly afford my $10 pack of cigarettes. Its a slippery slope.

Since when does you drinking a beer affect someone else in the restaurant? Health hazard refers to other patrons, not the user of the cigarette. They are free to hazard their own health in a place where it doesn't affect other people.

Slippery slope, in case you didn't know, means you don't really have an argument, but choose to argue where things could potentially lead. Its a fallacious argument.

StopArrestingMe: Goetz: I imagine that there is a substantial black market for cigarettes now?
New Yorkers?

Please dont play the race card. The term is free market and yes, it exists and its what made this country great. I dont understand why the government gets to make cigarettes 10 dollars anyway, the free market should determine prices. The governments job is to fight terrorists NOT to fix prices.

Subtle, this is not.

StopArrestingMe: bartink: Pocket Ninja: But laws mandating that all bars and other watering-hole types of establishments go smoke-free, regardless of what the owner wants, make me crazy.

Its a health hazard. Are you against all safety inspections in restaurants and bars as well?

Maybe we should stop serving alcohol in bars because it affects health? I can see it now, A liberal walks into a bar. Bartender says "why the long face?" (because liberal has a horseface.) the liberal asks what the speicals are. "water, $4.25 draft and $3.50 bottel and shots of milk for $3". Then the liberal is satisfied because this is his paradise. Also he can only afford to pay his tab because he took money from me. SO this limousine liberal is living it up drinking water and milk and driving his hybrid limousine and meanwhile Im broke and can bearly afford my $10 pack of cigarettes. Its a slippery slope.

What the hell are you smoking? Dude, its over you lost the election. Yes, you are a moron.

MorrisBird: Weaver95: And nobody will complain...

Unlikely. I've been complaining about sin taxes for years. Nobody listens, but it doesn't stop me.

I remember when Cuomo (a catholic) announced the SIN tax on wine.

My first thought was, sin? Now let's see, who else do we know of that used to not only drink wine everyday, but is famous for having multiplied it?
Who is my "sin" in the eyes of again?
Oh yeah, now I remember. People I couldn't give a rat's ass about.

It's just as ridiculous as the fat tax, which is in the same bill that taxes gym memberships.

bartink: Pocket Ninja: But laws mandating that all bars and other watering-hole types of establishments go smoke-free, regardless of what the owner wants, make me crazy.

Its a health hazard. Are you against all safety inspections in restaurants and bars as well?

Overeating is a health hazard. Riding a bike without pads is a health hazard. Walking on an icy day is a health hazard. Driving or riding in a car is a huge hazard. There are a lot of health hazards. The government can't, nor should it attempt to, prevent them all.

If a bar wants to set aside a room for people who just want to ease off, have a beer, and smoke, then they should be able to. Hell, if an establishment wants to put a sign out front that says "we smoke here, if you don't like it go elsewhere" they should be able to.

StopArrestingMe: bartink: Pocket Ninja: But laws mandating that all bars and other watering-hole types of establishments go smoke-free, regardless of what the owner wants, make me crazy.

Its a health hazard. Are you against all safety inspections in restaurants and bars as well?

Maybe we should stop serving alcohol in bars because it affects health? I can see it now, A liberal walks into a bar. Bartender says "why the long face?" (because liberal has a horseface.) the liberal asks what the speicals are. "water, $4.25 draft and $3.50 bottel and shots of milk for $3". Then the liberal is satisfied because this is his paradise. Also he can only afford to pay his tab because he took money from me. SO this limousine liberal is living it up drinking water and milk and driving his hybrid limousine and meanwhile Im broke and can bearly afford my $10 pack of cigarettes. Its a slippery slope.

StopArrestingMe: Goetz: I imagine that there is a substantial black market for cigarettes now?
New Yorkers?

Please dont play the race card. The term is free market and yes, it exists and its what made this country great. I dont understand why the government gets to make cigarettes 10 dollars anyway, the free market should determine prices. The governments job is to fight terrorists NOT to fix prices.

Alright, you're officially the first troll I'm favorite-ing. This, combined with your epic "themed trolls" earns you the place

bartink: StopArrestingMe: Maybe we should stop serving alcohol in bars because it affects health? I can see it now, A liberal walks into a bar. Bartender says "why the long face?" (because liberal has a horseface.) the liberal asks what the speicals are. "water, $4.25 draft and $3.50 bottel and shots of milk for $3". Then the liberal is satisfied because this is his paradise. Also he can only afford to pay his tab because he took money from me. SO this limousine liberal is living it up drinking water and milk and driving his hybrid limousine and meanwhile Im broke and can bearly afford my $10 pack of cigarettes. Its a slippery slope.

Since when does you drinking a beer affect someone else in the restaurant? Health hazard refers to other patrons, not the user of the cigarette. They are free to hazard their own health in a place where it doesn't affect other people.

Slippery slope, in case you didn't know, means you don't really have an argument, but choose to argue where things could potentially lead. Its a fallacious argument.

Don't feed the trolls.

Goetz: I imagine that there is a substantial black market for cigarettes now?
New Yorkers?

There always has been. There's even a market for counterfeit tax stamps.

silverfoxrocker: bartink: Pocket Ninja: But laws mandating that all bars and other watering-hole types of establishments go smoke-free, regardless of what the owner wants, make me crazy.

Its a health hazard. Are you against all safety inspections in restaurants and bars as well?

Overeating is a health hazard. Riding a bike without pads is a health hazard. Walking on an icy day is a health hazard. Driving or riding in a car is a huge hazard. There are a lot of health hazards. The government can't, nor should it attempt to, prevent them all.

If a bar wants to set aside a room for people who just want to ease off, have a beer, and smoke, then they should be able to. Hell, if an establishment wants to put a sign out front that says "we smoke here, if you don't like it go elsewhere" they should be able to.

What about those who work there?

It's only a matter of time before each household is assigned a life coach so we all do proper and socially responsible things.

/Mine better be hot with big boobs.

One U.S. estimate is that smoking costs over $190 billion/year. Of course that number comes from Big Cancer.

I believe I know the article you were referring to. IIRC, it was in JAMA or NEJM over ten years ago, and made assumptions that don't apply the same in the U.S., about the costs of various services and drugs.

Bottom line -- they lived shorter lives, but the last years were hideously expensive. In any case, there were short-term health care savings, and the long-term analysis didn't account for increased productivity.

SilentStrider: either subby or the articles writer is smoking something if they think people will actually quit.

yeah, addiction doesn't work like that. People will find cheaper ways to smoke, they won't stop smoking. And it is addiction, once someone's been smoking for a few years, anyways.

Goetz: I imagine that there is a substantial black market for cigarettes now?
New Yorkers?

The problem is, The gubment has been cracking down on the Native American smoke shops. They can legally sell tax free cigs to Native Americans, but not to anyone else (Of course, they disagree enthusiastically) It's a big, ongoing battle.

Link (new window)

Link (new window)

I expect the Thruway, 81, and 11 to experience closures any day now.

The Duke of Carrot Flowers: silverfoxrocker: bartink: Pocket Ninja: But laws mandating that all bars and other watering-hole types of establishments go smoke-free, regardless of what the owner wants, make me crazy.

Its a health hazard. Are you against all safety inspections in restaurants and bars as well?

Overeating is a health hazard. Riding a bike without pads is a health hazard. Walking on an icy day is a health hazard. Driving or riding in a car is a huge hazard. There are a lot of health hazards. The government can't, nor should it attempt to, prevent them all.

If a bar wants to set aside a room for people who just want to ease off, have a beer, and smoke, then they should be able to. Hell, if an establishment wants to put a sign out front that says "we smoke here, if you don't like it go elsewhere" they should be able to.

What about those who work there?

Get a different job or get used to it? We got on well enough for many years under just this system.

I have never once in my life seen a smoker quit because of the price.

silverfoxrocker: Overeating is a health hazard. Riding a bike without pads is a health hazard. Walking on an icy day is a health hazard. Driving or riding in a car is a huge hazard. There are a lot of health hazards. The government can't, nor should it attempt to, prevent them all.

And no one said they should. Smoking harms everyone around you. Your argument would suggest that you think drunk driving is okay, since the government shouldn't regulated hazards.

The Duke of Carrot Flowers: silverfoxrocker: bartink: Pocket Ninja: But laws mandating that all bars and other watering-hole types of establishments go smoke-free, regardless of what the owner wants, make me crazy.

Its a health hazard. Are you against all safety inspections in restaurants and bars as well?

Overeating is a health hazard. Riding a bike without pads is a health hazard. Walking on an icy day is a health hazard. Driving or riding in a car is a huge hazard. There are a lot of health hazards. The government can't, nor should it attempt to, prevent them all.

If a bar wants to set aside a room for people who just want to ease off, have a beer, and smoke, then they should be able to. Hell, if an establishment wants to put a sign out front that says "we smoke here, if you don't like it go elsewhere" they should be able to.

What about those who work there?

It's their choice. If I don't want to inhale coal dust, I won't apply for a job in a coal mine.

Tr0mBoNe: Welcome to my hell. $11.30 for a 25 pack.

Welcome to everyone elses hell: having to listen to you cough and bark up phlegm and put up with your disgusting odor

The point is to reduce consumption, which would reduce the healthcare costs to the state, which would reduce the need for a revenue stream.

No would, least of which the government, should be crying. With the exception of smokers.

McFlaren: I have never once in my life seen a smoker quit because of the price.

I have.

propasaurus: Pocket Ninja: I have absolutely no problem with taxing the bejesus out of cigarettes.

But laws mandating that all bars and other watering-hole types of establishments go smoke-free, regardless of what the owner wants, make me crazy.

I suppose laws mandating that restaurants refrigerate food regardless of what the owner wants make you crazy too?

Talk about making no sense.....

silverfoxrocker: Get a different job or get used to it? We got on well enough for many years under just this system.

So, I must ask, are you generally against health/safety regulations in the work place? People should just find another job if they don't like the working conditions?

TommyymmoT: It's their choice. If I don't want to inhale coal dust, I won't apply for a job in a coal mine.

Should restaurants be required to refrigerate and prepare food safely?

The Duke of Carrot Flowers: Weaver95: it's not a health hazard, it's a lame ass excuse for control freaks to live out their BDSM fantasies via legislative means.

Translation : It's not a health hazard because I say so! Damn all the research.

Sad, infantile.

Interesting thing about that so called 'research'.

Turns out that the EPA fudged the numbers and couldn't actually prove that second hand smoke did anything to anyone other than cause eye irritation.

McFlaren: I have never once in my life seen a smoker quit because of the price.

I did. Been 6 years now. Suck it gubermint

bartink: silverfoxrocker: Overeating is a health hazard. Riding a bike without pads is a health hazard. Walking on an icy day is a health hazard. Driving or riding in a car is a huge hazard. There are a lot of health hazards. The government can't, nor should it attempt to, prevent them all.

And no one said they should. Smoking harms everyone around you. Your argument would suggest that you think drunk driving is okay, since the government shouldn't regulated hazards.

You can't really avoid a drunk driver, not without staying off the roads altogether, an act that would severely detract from an individual's productivity. You can avoid an establishment that allows its patrons to light up and it won't hurt a bit--just keep walking.

silverfoxrocker: Overeating is a health hazard. Riding a bike without pads is a health hazard. Walking on an icy day is a health hazard. Driving or riding in a car is a huge hazard. There are a lot of health hazards. The government can't, nor should it attempt to, prevent them all.

This tired argument just proves that smokers don't understand the effects of their own habit. Which I suppose is why they're smokers.

Slippery slope

bartink: McFlaren: I have never once in my life seen a smoker quit because of the price.

I have.

I've also seen an awful lot of people switch to rolling their own, and to filtered cigars, both of which are unaffected by the tax.

I can still get a pack of 20 filtered cigars in NYS for $1.39.