It is their duty to complain about exclusionary politics so they can be re-elected.

FTFA: "If you think about the dynamics of this, just less than four percent of the Congress participated in this on the Republican side," said Johanns.

And if you think about the dynamics of this, that means that so many Americans favored the Democrats that they only needed the help of 4% of the Senate to close debate. I'm suspicious of the effectiveness of this package, but claiming partisan politics over its passing is pretty asinine and stupid.

Left out my ass. They wrecked the stimulus bill, pulling billions of useful allocations out.

If there were republicans involved, which the article says there were, how were they left out? Oh, MODERATE republicans were included. So the cry babies are doing their normal crying. If they want to be included, THEN PARTICIPATE IN THE PROCESS. Don't just whine about it, but go DO SOMETHING other than baitch about how you weren't included.

GAT_00: Left out my ass. They wrecked the stimulus bill, pulling billions of useful allocations out.

Not only did they pull out useful things they replaced them with utterly useless tax cuts.

fark all republicans.

-they have zero credibilty and deserve to be shunned.

there never was such a thing as "bi-partisan".

it's just another buzz word for "good ole boys club".

'going foward', 'at the end of the day'...you suck.

You lost.

This is how the GOP operates in the Senate these days:

Repubs: We don't like this bill. Remove this, this, this, this, change that, that, and that, and that's maybe good.
Reid: I dunno. How about I give you 80% of what I want.
Repubs: WAAAAH! WE DON'T LIKE THAT!
Reid: Fine. How about 90% of what you want.
Repubs: Fine, I guess.
*bill passes barely*
Repubs: We weren't included and didn't get everything we want so we're going to biatch about it now.

SpaceyCat: If there were republicans involved, which the article says there were, how were they left out? Oh, MODERATE republicans were included. So the cry babies are doing their normal crying. If they want to be included, THEN PARTICIPATE IN THE PROCESS. Don't just whine about it, but go DO SOMETHING other than baitch about how you weren't included.

This.

7of7: GAT_00: Left out my ass. They wrecked the stimulus bill, pulling billions of useful allocations out.

Not only did they pull out useful things they replaced them with utterly useless tax cuts.

Sadly this too.

Considering how their policies have brought us here, it's insane that the right wing even has a seat at the big table while they try to find a solution.

If anything, this whole fiasco should be the last nail in the coffin of Reaganomics. We need to go back to a Keynesian model and do our damndest to increase demand, not "investment." Supply side economics doesn't farking work.

Frankly, we could do so much for this country if we used the money to fund a national debt forgiveness program. Start with paying off every college loan in the country. Boom, now you have an entire generation of new, entry-level workers at generally white-collar positions who don't have to set aside a chunk of their meager starting paychecks to pay off their obscene education bills (higher education prices have become a disgrace in this country, but that's another biatchfest for another day). Then work on at least partial forgiveness for mortgages, ease the pressure on on families. Now you have two very large groups suddenly with with a fair bit of disposable income in their pockets. They buy things instead of saving and paying off debt. Companies get more money. The economy starts to stabilize.

The money all goes into the banks regardless. Why should they just get a massive check cut to them with no strings, while any sort of similar deal for the people of America is socialism? Give the money to the people so they can pay off their debts, and the banks still get it. Frankly, the current stimulus plan doesn't go nearly far enough.

That such a plan hasn't even been considered pisses me off.

Bloody William: Considering how their policies have brought us here, it's insane that the right wing even has a seat at the big table while they try to find a solution.

I read a good quote about this and how Obama is approaching this wrong. I will paraphrase:

Bipartisan only works if both parties are not insane. This is why working with the GOP is a fruitless endeavor.

How can the Republicans complain about being left out, when they refuse to engage in compromise or meet in the middle of the debate? They are stonewalling precisely SO they can be "left out," since that means they get to lay the entire economic crisis on the feet of the Democrats. Expect every talking head for the next four years to start screaming about "the Democrats' handouts" and how they aren't working/aren't good enough/aren't quick enough/spend too much compared to a completely fictional "Republican plan."

By refusing to participate in trying to save the country, the Republicans now get the opportunity to play "shoulda coulda woulda" with the electorate. I only hope they get shot down by every spokesman for the Democrats in as clear and nasty a way as possible. This was your chance to compromise and get SOME of what you wanted, play SOME role in trying to keep us from plunging into a depression, and instead you refused entirely for the purpose of earning some political capital. That's putting party over country, the same damn thing you accused the Democrats of for seven solid years. Grow up.

Are you freakin' kidding me? After their monolithic "our way or the highway that they've run for the past eight years" ...somehow even in the last two despite the near-perfect balance in the senate...???

these hyperpartisan extremists who ran roughshod over the senate for years are whining about being "left out?" fuuuuuuuuuuukc you, assholes.

SpaceyCat: If there were republicans involved, which the article says there were, how were they left out? Oh, MODERATE republicans were included. So the cry babies are doing their normal crying. If they want to be included, THEN PARTICIPATE IN THE PROCESS. Don't just whine about it, but go DO SOMETHING other than baitch about how you weren't included.

For them to be able to do this in a meaningful way, they first must win elections. Maybe they should try reaching out to people who aren't dittoheads and see how that goes.

Jack be quick, Jack be nimble
My sympathy won't fill a thimble

"Compromise means doing it our way."
-Republicans

GAT_00: Left out my ass. They wrecked the stimulus bill, pulling billions of useful allocations out.

Reading is fundamental. They picked off three republicans and made a deal with them to pull out that $100 billion. It was a conscious choice by the dems to remove that money.

"If you don't get a trillion dollars right, you've made a massive mistake that you may not be able to recover from," said Ensign. "We should have taken our time and gotten this right."

Please tell me why you think this statement is some colossal fail.

DamnYankees: Bipartisan only works if both parties are not insane. This is why working with the GOP is a fruitless endeavor.

Agree with this, except that I don't think they're insane -- I think they made a conscious decision to dig in behind Reaganomics and pray that the stimulus tanks badly enough to help them win elections in 2010.

Note that the GOP Senators who did come along are ones who would have been at high risk in their moderate states.

Two words: Nuclear Option

/What goes around...

They misheard Obama, he never said BI-partisan, he said MY-partisan.

"You like Earth jazz, she prefers Klingon opera, so you compromise: you listen to Klingon opera."

You left yourselves out, assholes.

Obama and the Democrats made every effort to be bipartisan, even including in the bill hundreds of billions in tax cuts to which they're not ideologically inclined. When Republicans objected to provisions like funding for family planning, the Democrats dropped them with little fuss.

Despite this, not a single house Republican voted for the bill. Their "negotiations" were wholly fraudulent. They didn't intend to vote for Obama's stimulus plan no matter what it contained. Conservatives complaints about the final bill have no credibility, then predicated as they are on fraud.

Snowflake Tubbybottom:
"If you don't get a trillion dollars right, you've made a massive mistake that you may not be able to recover from," said Ensign. "We should have taken our time and gotten this right."

Please tell me why you think this statement is some colossal fail.
What would more time give you?

No, I think they did a great job of eliminating very crucial parts of the stimulus bill that needed to be included. For that I give them full credit.

Snowflake Tubbybottom: "If you don't get a trillion dollars right, you've made a massive mistake that you may not be able to recover from," said Ensign. "We should have taken our time and gotten this right."

Please tell me why you think this statement is some colossal fail.

It wouldn't be full of fail if Ensign had backed it up with actions. He didn't play any role in negotiating an agreement -- he put up his own gutted package for a vote and otherwise decided to take his ball and go home. His proposed amendment was so full of fail that even it got only 35 GOP votes.

DamnYankees:

Bipartisan only works if both parties are not insane. This is why working with the GOP is a fruitless endeavor.



Yeah the congressional Dems are the paragon of sanity and reality.

7of7: GAT_00: Left out my ass. They wrecked the stimulus bill, pulling billions of useful allocations out.

Not only did they pull out useful things they replaced them with utterly useless tax cuts.

God you people are stupid.

Call the whambulance indeed, like it or not more than half the country is still republican and will vote these other farks out of office again if they appear to be doing shiatty.

The dems are giving the repubs a platform for their next elections and all of you are eating it up, calling them losers and ignoring the fact that without the small majority that helped obama win they could easily lose both houses if they do not stay in the middle like obama was before the election.

Either way we are all farked unless we get a viable 3rd party up there, its why I was hoping obama would lose so that maybe some of the more irrational dems would leave to form their own party, then all the nut balls have a person to vote for in an election.

Phil Herup: DamnYankees:

Bipartisan only works if both parties are not insane. This is why working with the GOP is a fruitless endeavor.



Yeah the congressional Dems are the paragon of sanity and reality.

Yes, but they're much more sane than the Republicans. False equivalency fallacy.

steamingpile: Call the whambulance indeed, like it or not more than half the country is still republican and will vote these other farks out of office again if they appear to be doing shiatty.

More than half?

By land mass, perhaps.

By population? Things have been looking grim for the Republicans on that front.



http://pewresearch.org/pubs/773/fewer-voters-identify-as-republicans

Senate Republican pressure royally farked up one of the biggest provisions... the housing credit. They pushed to make it non-refundable. That is, 3/4s of American households don't pay $7500 a year on their 1040, but those that do are given more money to price lower-income people out.

And, then they claim they had no influence.

The Loaf: Two words: Nuclear Nook-ya-lur Option

FTFY

Guntram Shatterhand: Yes, but they're much more sane than the Republicans.


No way.

When you're all about obstruction, being left out is sort've the point.

steamingpile: like it or not more than half the country is still republican

And yet about 2/3rds of the Congress is Democratic... so weird...

steamingpile: The dems are giving the repubs a platform for their next elections and all of you are eating it up, calling them losers and ignoring the fact that without the small majority that helped obama win they could easily lose both houses if they do not stay in the middle like obama was before the election.

1936 on the phone for ya...

Judging from the talking heads this morning (BTW- how does Andrea Mitchell get to talk about economic policies of the Bush era, when she goes home to do god-knows-what to hubby Greenspan?), they are buying into GOP victimhood stories.

I guess since it's close to a human interest story, it doesn't require any journalism, like fact-checking or investigation.

steamingpile: 7of7: GAT_00: Left out my ass. They wrecked the stimulus bill, pulling billions of useful allocations out.

Not only did they pull out useful things they replaced them with utterly useless tax cuts.

God you people are stupid.

Call the whambulance indeed, like it or not more than half the country is still republican and will vote these other farks out of office again if they appear to be doing shiatty.

The dems are giving the repubs a platform for their next elections and all of you are eating it up, calling them losers and ignoring the fact that without the small majority that helped obama win they could easily lose both houses if they do not stay in the middle like obama was before the election.

Either way we are all farked unless we get a viable 3rd party up there, its why I was hoping obama would lose so that maybe some of the more irrational dems would leave to form their own party, then all the nut balls have a person to vote for in an election.


What?

I can see you are pretty up to date with jur learnin.

Snowflake Tubbybottom: Reading is fundamental. They picked off three republicans and made a deal with them to pull out that $100 billion. It was a conscious choice by the dems to remove that money.

How many votes does it take to pass a bill in the senate?

How many republicans are there in the senate?

How many seats did the republicans gain or lose in the election just a few short months ago reflecting the will of the voters?

Finally- how can republican obstructionism be seen by anyone as anything more than the petty tantrums of a dying political party?

steamingpile: Call the whambulance indeed, like it or not more than half the country is still republican and will vote these other farks out of office again if they appear to be doing shiatty.

[citation needed]

The dems are giving the repubs a platform for their next elections and all of you are eating it up, calling them losers and ignoring the fact that without the small majority that helped obama win they could easily lose both houses if they do not stay in the middle like obama was before the election.

First off, the "small majority" that helped Obama win was the largest in two decades or more.
Second, the Democrats will control the 112th Senate. This is not a question. To believe the Republicans can win back the majority in 2010, you need all of the following:

(a) pick off the pseudo-incumbents Bennett (CO), Burris (IL), and Gillibrand (NY)
(b) steal the DE open seat which will likely be against Beau Biden.
(c) preserve the seats of Bunning (KY), Burr (NC), Murkowski (AK), and Thune (SD) all of whom won by less than 5% in 2004
(d) hold onto Vitter (LA)
(e) not shoot themselves in the foot with Specter (PA)
(f) win the currently-Republican open seats in the swing states of FL, MO, and OH as well as KS.
(g) defeat favorite targets Boxer (CA), Feingold (WI), and Reid (NV)
(h) get Lieberman (CT) on their side
(i) have Coleman magically win his election challenge or force and win a re-vote
ALL OF THAT gets the Republicans to 50. Ignoring the dead-boy-live-girl-level safe seats in CT, HI, MD, NY-Schumer, OR, and VT, the only seats left where they could get to 51 are three beloved Democrats in conservative states Bayh (IN), Dorgan (ND) and Lincoln (AR); or Murray (WA) who won by 12 points in 2004.

Even if a deal had not been brokered, I'm not sure the Senate Republicans would have had the balls to filibuster. In these times I think it would have seriously backfired. I think they're crying partially because they really do have their hands tied. If any one of them delayed this bill by pulling bullshiat I think they would face tremendous fallout.

NYZooMan: They misheard Obama, he never said BI-partisan, he said MY-partisan.fark you.

obama reached out to republicans with an open hand. they gave him a clenched fist. boehner instructed his minions in the house to vote against the bill BEFORE even meeting with obama.

and don't even get me started on how the GOP treated the minority dems when they were in power.fark republicans. they had their shot. they lost. they're far out of the mainstream. america doesn't subscribe to their hyper-religious, chickenhawk, plutocrat philosophy anymore.

FlashHarry: NYZooMan: They misheard Obama, he never said BI-partisan, he said MY-partisan.fark you.

obama reached out to republicans with an open hand. they gave him a clenched fist. boehner instructed his minions in the house to vote against the bill BEFORE even meeting with obama.

Reached out = "Do this or else."

TripSixes: It is their duty to complain about exclusionary politics so they can be re-elected.

Because coming up with a brilliant idea, promoting it, having it adopted, then nurturing it and watching it grow into success will cause the electorate to rise up with pitchforks and torches?

/Someone replaced Republican's with Whigs and Know Nothings.

Snowflake Tubbybottom: Reading is fundamental. They picked off three republicans and made a deal with them to pull out that $100 billion. It was a conscious choice by the dems to remove that money.

You know, it's funny how exactly the minimum number of Republicans were willing to play along so the package could get passed. Meanwhile the rest of them can try and look tough for their red-state constituents.

FlashHarry:

and don't even get me started on how the GOP treated the minority dems when they were in power

That must be the CHANGE you all were ranting about.

NYZooMan: FlashHarry: NYZooMan: They misheard Obama, he never said BI-partisan, he said MY-partisan.fark you.

obama reached out to republicans with an open hand. they gave him a clenched fist. boehner instructed his minions in the house to vote against the bill BEFORE even meeting with obama.

Reached out = "Do this or else."

There was discussion and compromise. Things were cut from the spending bill and tax cuts were added (both utterly farking foolishly in my opinion) to get the Republicans' approval.

I know the concept of compromise is a bit foreign to you after eight years of spineless Democrats caving in constantly, but this is how compromise with a minority party should work.

You don't have control of Congress or the white house. That means you simply don't have as much say in policy as before when you had the majority. That's what our government is based around, and whining like a biatch because you're not getting everything you want anymore isn't going to help.

GAT_00: Left out my ass. They wrecked the stimulus bill, pulling billions of useful allocations out.

THIS.
Because who needs education.

NYZooMan: FlashHarry: NYZooMan: They misheard Obama, he never said BI-partisan, he said MY-partisan.fark you.

obama reached out to republicans with an open hand. they gave him a clenched fist. boehner instructed his minions in the house to vote against the bill BEFORE even meeting with obama.

Reached out = "Do this or else."

or else what? what was the threat here? Torture?

Of course, i dont think it went down like this at all. I would like to see a quote from someone in those meetings who felt they were threatened.

Darn it. My truck won't start this morning.

Anyone have a tax cut?