You think violence and death sells itself?

Why focus on diplomacy when you can blow schnit up?

That's pretty stark.

considering the pentagon is the home office to the entire army, navy, marines, NSA, DIA, and a ton of other agencies and departments, it makes sense that they would have a huge office of paper pushers and the like.

bales: considering the pentagon is the home office to the entire army, navy, marines, NSA, DIA, and a ton of other agencies and departments, it makes sense that they would have a huge office of paper pushers and the like.

I can understand secretaries, gophers, and mail staff but they have a huge PR, recruiting and advertising. It reminds me of the drug companies and their huge advertising budget compared to the funds allocated to development and research.

Or when Anhauser-Busch (Ithink it was them) gave $100,000 to a battered-women shelter and spent 5 million bragging about it.

I don't know if the numbers are right but they're close

*ahem*

Actually, State has traditionally been a smaller department because of the small government principles of the first Secretary of State:... wait for it... Thomas Jefferson.

Compare that to say, Treasury, which has 115K or so and who's first Secretary was the Federalist... Alexander Hamilton.

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: *ahem*

Actually, State has traditionally been a smaller department because of the small government principles of the first Secretary of State:... wait for it... Thomas Jefferson.

Compare that to say, Treasury, which has 115K or so and who's first Secretary was the Federalist... Alexander Hamilton.

Yes, because our place in the world is exactly the same as it was over 200 years ago. Yer a genius.

brainiac-dumdum: I can understand secretaries, gophers, and mail staff but they have a huge PR, recruiting and advertising. It reminds me of the drug companies and their huge advertising budget compared to the funds allocated to development and research.

in 2008 the entire pentagon housed 23,000 employee's total. this article is saying that not only is the pentagon being expanded, but that every employee in there is either recruitment, PR, or advertising. it doesn't make any sense.

brainiac-dumdum: Yes, because our place in the world is exactly the same as it was over 200 years ago. Yer a genius.

Yeah, cause past events have no impact on future events and employees don't embrace corporate cultures. *Rolls eyes*

bales: brainiac-dumdum: I can understand secretaries, gophers, and mail staff but they have a huge PR, recruiting and advertising. It reminds me of the drug companies and their huge advertising budget compared to the funds allocated to development and research.

in 2008 the entire pentagon housed 23,000 employee's total. this article is saying that not only is the pentagon being expanded, but that every employee in there is either recruitment, PR, or advertising. it doesn't make any sense.

hhhmmmm, maybe they mean the number that works for the Department of Defense rather than in just the Pentagon? Do all DoD people work at the Pentagon?

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: brainiac-dumdum: Yes, because our place in the world is exactly the same as it was over 200 years ago. Yer a genius.

Yeah, cause past events have no impact on future events and employees don't embrace corporate cultures. *Rolls eyes*

Oh please, yer just pissy because you tried to be all Bill Nye the History Guy and I pointed out that the comparison was invalid.

brainiac-dumdum: Do all DoD people work at the Pentagon?

nono - here is a list of links to all of the DoD agencies, including the entire armed forces. the pentagon is just the HQ.

bales: brainiac-dumdum: Do all DoD people work at the Pentagon?

nono - here is a list of links to all of the DoD agencies, including the entire armed forces. the pentagon is just the HQ.

So maybe they meant in the DoD and not specifically the Pentagon? I'm cooking dinner while farking so I can't go rooting for the info right now.

brainiac-dumdum: So maybe they meant in the DoD and not specifically the Pentagon? I'm cooking dinner while farking so I can't go rooting for the info right now.

maybe. that would make some sense. but either way you really have to consider that the number of employees we are talking about is in the 7 figures.

now i'm not saying that the PR machine the pentagon has isn't overboard - i despise the PR industry and what it creates - i am just hating the author of the article.

We spend an obscene amount of money on our ridiculously over-sized war machine, and it's a bipartisan phenomenon.

I would guess that includes the number of active duty people on recruiting duty... Which, given they have one in just about every mid-sized town in america, in order to annoy high schoolers, is quite large...

one group actually does things.... the other group talks....

bales: in 2008 the entire pentagon housed 23,000 employee's total. this article is saying that not only is the pentagon being expanded, but that every employee in there is either recruitment, PR, or advertising. it doesn't make any sense.

"The Pentagon" is often used as shorthand by lazy people (including me) to refer to the DoD.

/stubmitter

real shaman: one group actually does things.... the other group talks....

Yes. Diplomacy isn't doing anything. Have you ever entered into any negotiation? I realize that since we are on Fark, the odds are against, but some people here have.

We need to get rid of 40% of the Pentagon.

That's right, it will now be called the Triangle.

mcwebe0: real shaman: one group actually does things.... the other group talks....

Yes. Diplomacy isn't doing anything. Have you ever entered into any negotiation? I realize that since we are on Fark, the odds are against, but some people here have.

I use a baseball bat for negotiating.....

We're putting to work on our new Death Gel. Now, this is a new product so we want to push, push, push.

/Jay Leno

real shaman: mcwebe0: real shaman: one group actually does things.... the other group talks....

Yes. Diplomacy isn't doing anything. Have you ever entered into any negotiation? I realize that since we are on Fark, the odds are against, but some people here have.

I use a baseball bat for negotiating.....

Need a job?

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: *ahem*

Actually, State has traditionally been a smaller department because of the small government principles of the first Secretary of State:... wait for it... Thomas Jefferson.

Compare that to say, Treasury, which has 115K or so and who's first Secretary was the Federalist... Alexander Hamilton.

How are earth does the Treasury have 115,000 employees? Are they weaving the each note by hand or something?

And yet somehow they haven't learned from the last century or so of propaganda studies.


/Jacques Ellul FTW!

Good. The State Department is filled with useless drones who accomplish very little. Try getting their help when a loved one is in trouble overseas. They would prefer that you go away and not bother them. They are far more interested in stroking the balls of foreign governments than they are in protecting/helping American citizens that pay their salaries.

/speaks from *multiple* personal experiences

Does that number include recruiters in the hundreds if not thousands of offices located all over the US or is it just people who actually work in the pentagon itself?

If anyone needs to be shot its those working in PR and Marketing.

Line them up first.

As an army of one being all I can be to be army strong I am few and proud of the work done by pentagon PR.

jdawg3k: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: *ahem*

Actually, State has traditionally been a smaller department because of the small government principles of the first Secretary of State:... wait for it... Thomas Jefferson.

Compare that to say, Treasury, which has 115K or so and who's first Secretary was the Federalist... Alexander Hamilton.

How are earth does the Treasury have 115,000 employees? Are they weaving the each note by hand or something?

Treasury includes everybody's favorite: The IRS.

Just imagine Patrick Stewart as the personification of diplomacy.

jdawg3k:

How are earth does the Treasury have 115,000 employees? Are they weaving the each note by hand or something?

I'm sure the Secret Service accounts for quite a few of them.

I'm not surprised at all. It's a tough sell to convince people here they should voluntarily lay down their lives to fight for the freedom of people in Third World countries who have no desire to lay down their own lives for their freedom.

/there were no WMDs - W and Cheney gambled that there were when they pushed the Iraq invasion
//Iraq invasion wasn't about WMDs, it was about trying to fix Daddy ush's mistakes in his handling of the first Gulf War
///The blood of everyone who has died on all sides in the Iraq conflict is on the hands of W

Karma Chameleon: jdawg3k:

How are earth does the Treasury have 115,000 employees? Are they weaving the each note by hand or something?

I'm sure the Secret Service accounts for quite a few of them.

Nevermind, I forgot the Department of Motherland Security absorbed them.

xuanzhiyouxuan: /Jacques Ellul FTW!

That's a 10/10 for practical application of the obscure.

/found out about Ellul through Vernard Eller

mark12A: Good. The State Department is filled with useless drones who accomplish very little. Try getting their help when a loved one is in trouble overseas. They would prefer that you go away and not bother them. They are far more interested in stroking the balls of foreign governments than they are in protecting/helping American citizens that pay their salaries.

/speaks from *multiple* personal experiences

What are the general outlines of these personal experiences? A druggie cousin caught in Singapore? Probably not much the state department can do there. Need more detail before I accept your blanket dismissal of the state department.

On the other hand, the State Department doesn't accept trailer trash and then give them tanks and heavy artillery to play with.

/I'm just trollin' along with the trolls.

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: That's a 10/10 for practical application of the obscure.

Thank you! The practical application of the obscure is what I live for.

/MA in Classical Chinese

GOSLING'S BIG BOOK O' POLITICAL ADVICE

#68: A war will attract as many volunteers as that war deserves.

Considering the Department of State is essentially, in its entirety, the U.S. Department of Public Relations and advertising, that's about equal.

How many of them are paid to be fark commenters?

so now were complaining about people having jobs?

christ, at least they are working.

oldebayer: On the other hand, the State Department doesn't accept trailer trash and then give them tanks and heavy artillery to play with.

The State Department gives rich donors jobs like Ambassador to Liechtenstein.

Do you know what? I think we should be more like Israel and have everyone serve in the military or coast guard. Or the Border Patrol.

And the TSS. Yes, them especially.

I_Love_Verdi: Just imagine Patrick Stewart as the personification of diplomacy.

Good choice of image. I've seen actual diplomats in that exact pose.

The disparity in staffing makes sense to me.

State is about getting along with others. Defense, of late, has been about attacking others, often for trumped-up reasons.

It's a *good* thing that it takes Defense twenty-odd-thousand people to persuade 'Merkins that what they're doing is even remotely excusable, let alone worthwhile... and that presumably it takes State roughly zero.

It gives me some faint hope that maybe, just maybe, citizens grasp the difference between getting along and not getting along.

Oh, fark it, who am I kidding, they're all idiots. Defense just hired all the PR people so there are none left for State.

Domestic PR is effectively "domestic psyops"---it still changes the opinions of people, but the fact that the people live in the USA is the discriminating factor.

Dalar: How many of them are paid to be fark commenters?

Probably very few. I would think that teaching a few people the languages of the places we invade would be higher priority than effective modern psyops, and they haven't even achieved a little bit of the first one.

as long as war is more profitable...

Dalar: How many of them are paid to be fark commenters?

I'm sure a similar percentage of them comment on fark rather than work as the rest of us do.

00ghost27: so now were complaining about people having jobs?

christ, at least they are working.

...and being paid with money taken out of your check, while producing absolutely nothing of value.