jesus f*cking christ, why are we trying to help these ignorant people?

netweavr: In January 2008, a court sentenced a journalism student to death for blasphemy for asking questions about women's rights under Islam. An appeals court reduced the sentence to 20 years in prison. His lawyers appealed again and the case is pending.

Oh jeez. The Quran thing is at least a known violation of Sharia. Asking questions though?

What are knitted, woolen blankets doing translating the Quran in the first place? They need to leave that to professionals. Like quilts.

To be fair, subby, America comes down pretty harshly on people who don't speak English. (In criminal courts and in regular life).

netweavr: In January 2008, a court sentenced a journalism student to death for blasphemy for asking questions about women's rights under Islam. An appeals court reduced the sentence to 20 years in prison. His lawyers appealed again and the case is pending.

I'm sorry, but I've been told by many people here on TotalFark that we have to be respectful of other people's religious beliefs, and it makes one a "douchebag" or "asshole" to belittle them. Consequently, I will hear no more about this matter, and will return to my endeavors to get evolution warning labels put on biology books.

Matthias: Look, I don't think it should be a sin, just for saying "Jehovah".
[Everyone gasps]
Jewish Official: You're only making it worse for yourself!
Matthias: Making it worse? How can it be worse? Jehovah! Jehovah! Jehovah!
Jewish Official: I'm warning you! If you say "Jehovah" one more time (gets hit with rock) RIGHT! Who did that? Come on, who did it?
Stoners: She did! She did! (suddenly speaking as men) He! He did! He!
Jewish Official: Was it you?
Stoner: Yes.
Jewish Official: Right...
Stoner: Well you did say "Jehovah. "
[Crowd throws rocks at the stoner]
Jewish Official: STOP IT! STOP IT! STOP IT RIGHT NOW! STOP IT! All right, no one is to stone _anyone_ until I blow this whistle. Even... and I want to make this absolutely clear... even if they do say, "Jehovah. "
[Crowd stones the Jewish Official to death]

The clerics said Zalmai, a stocky 54-year-old spokesman for the attorney general, was trying to anoint himself as a prophet.

Going from "making it readable" to "self anointed prophet" is a pretty damned big leap. But the harshness of their judgments and punishments is how they've maintained their medieval stranglehold on progress.

sloppy shoes: To be fair, subby, America comes down pretty harshly on people who don't speak English. (In criminal courts and in regular life).

Yes, we routinely execute people for speaking the wrong language. Wait, no we don't, because we're not stuck in the farking 12th century.

Kinda off topic, check out this disgusting excuse for a survey: Link (new window)

overlord_mike: jesus f*cking christ, why are we trying to help these ignorant people?

I say the same thing when I hear about Alabama.

overlord_mike: jesus f*cking christ, why are we trying to help these ignorant people?

Because all cultures are equal, dontcha know? Except Western cultures, they're all full of heterosexual rich whites who should be ashamed of themselves.

overlord_mike: jesus f*cking christ, why are we trying to help these ignorant people?

Why are you under the impression that we're "trying to help" them?

The Icelander: I say the same thing when I hear about Alabama.

Yeah...I don't remember when the Alabama courts sentenced a guy to death (or anything, for that matter) for mistranslating the Bible.

And this isn't Christianity vs. Islam. It's Christians realizing that unless they ignore most of the Bible, and stop burning people for disagreeing with them, they'll be barbarians forever. Muslims haven't come to that realization yet.

smooshie: sloppy shoes: To be fair, subby, America comes down pretty harshly on people who don't speak English. (In criminal courts and in regular life).

Yes, we routinely execute people for speaking the wrong language. Wait, no we don't, because we're not stuck in the farking 12th century.

I didn't say "we routinely execute people for speaking the wrong language." (Though if you insist on invoking the 12th century, I will point out that the Klu Klux Klan did basically everything Muslim radicals and terrorists did 50-150 years ago.)

However, if you don't speak English in certain states, you are looked down upon. Actually, that's probably every state. IN certain states, you will face tougher criminal precedings. Can you imagine not knowing any English and being accused of murder in the wrong part of Texas?

William Tyndale would not approve.

This is only going to get worse, since 4e has given clerics even more offensive abilities.

smooshie: And this isn't Christianity vs. Islam. It's Christians realizing that unless they ignore most of the Bible, and stop burning people for disagreeing with them, they'll be barbarians forever. Muslims haven't come to that realization yet.

Islam's only about 1400 years old. Remember how Christians were in the year 1400?

The Icelander: Islam's only about 1400 years old. Remember how Christians were in the year 1400?

Pungent?

The Icelander: Islam's only about 1400 years old. Remember how Christians were in the year 1400?

Yep, getting our asses whupped by Muslims in science, technology, and culture (well, that was a bit before 1400, but still).

I wish those Muslims were around now, not the knuckle-dragging idiots we have now.

kronicfeld: Pungent?

I was thinking more along the lines of the witch scene in Monty Python. "We found a witch, may we burn her?"

\Oh, wait, that still happens (new window)

smooshie: I wish those Muslims were around now, not the knuckle-dragging idiots we have now.

You don't know many Muslims, do you?

smooshie: The Icelander: Islam's only about 1400 years old. Remember how Christians were in the year 1400?

Yep, getting our asses whupped by Muslims in science, technology, and culture (well, that was a bit before 1400, but still).

I wish those Muslims were around now, not the knuckle-dragging idiots we have now.

You know, there are 2 million Muslims living in the United States. The vast majority are those sort that enjoy things like science, technology, and culture, and avoid the whole Wahhabist/Sharia bullshiat.

Two million.

I'm all for respecting other cultures and their customs. I love experiencing other cultures. The variety of cultures and customs in the world is wonderful.

However, there are also some fundamental human rights to which we should all be entitled, regardless of where we are born or where we live. The founding fathers of the USA called it "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", but they were hardly the first ones to describe universal human rights.

When customs trample people's fundamental rights, those customs need to change. They should never be defended with comments like, "well, we have to respect their customs!" No, we don't, not when those customs violate human rights.

Diogenes
But the harshness of their judgments and punishments is how they've maintained their medieval stranglehold on progress.

That and treating women as property.

smooshie: I wish those Muslims were around now, not the knuckle-dragging idiots we have now.

You should specify that you mean the Taliban, Wahhabists, Iranian Mullahs and other fundamentalist whack jobs.

sloppy shoes:
I didn't say "we routinely execute people for speaking the wrong language." (Though if you insist on invoking the 12th century, I will point out that the Klu Klux Klan did basically everything Muslim radicals and terrorists did 50-150 years ago.)


So you agree that their culture hasn't evolved then, eh?

patrick767: That and treating women as property.

Indeed, giving women the ability to choose their sexual partners has been the single greatest source of progress in the US. If men could get sex without having to impress a woman, they wouldn't bother doing anything else.

The Icelander: Remember how Christians were in the year 1400?
sterben: William Tyndale would not approve.

(c. 1494 - 1536)

On the other hand, the compilation of the New Testament Canon finished about 400 AD, while the Uthman Qur'an was done about 650 AD. It might thus be argued that Islam has had more than enough time to get the sticks out of their asses.

Oh, and would the Christians please note that the closest so far to any defense of this Muslim idiocy is The Icelander pointing out that such bad behavior wasn't without precedent when Christendom was comparably immature? I trust he'd agree that while the immaturity might make it understandable, that doesn't mean that such antics by the Afghans should be treated with indulgence by other cultures.

patrick767: However, there are also some fundamental human rights to which we should all be entitled

Please indicate what you think the properties of "rights" are.

clancifer: So you agree that their culture hasn't evolved then, eh?

I think there are a lot of Muslims that are not radical and quite willing to embrace human rights. You are grossly over stereotyping them.

abb3w: I trust he'd agree that while the immaturity might make it understandable, that doesn't mean that such antics by the Afghans should be treated with indulgence by other cultures.

What makes it understandable is the a combination of the violence of the Taliban and the ignorance of the population.

When you have good Christian folks abusing and killing their children because they think they're witches, the culprit isn't Christianity. It's the inability for those people to think critically, and a lack of knowledge about infectious disease. (Or maybe it's just coincidence that the symptoms of demonic possession are the same as the symptoms of an ear ache.)

sloppy shoes: clancifer: So you agree that their culture hasn't evolved then, eh?

I think there are a lot of Muslims that are not radical and quite willing to embrace human rights. You are grossly over stereotyping them.

I'm sure most are. But don't try to equate current Muslim extremists with their Christian counterparts. The scales do not match up.

Also, Texas courts are fairly well regulated. A person speaking a foreign language may have trouble at some small municipal court, but those courts just out for money for the city anyways and most people don't get a fair deal. No worry of a farking death penalty though!

clancifer: I'm sure most are. But don't try to equate current Muslim extremists with their Christian counterparts. The scales do not match up.

Also, Texas courts are fairly well regulated. A person speaking a foreign language may have trouble at some small municipal court, but those courts just out for money for the city anyways and most people don't get a fair deal. No worry of a farking death penalty though!


Really? The Klu Klux Klan was just as bad, if not worse in the South. They were terrorists. They used terrorism to control large areas of the country. We don't acknowledge this because we don't want to admit we aren't that far off from these other countries.

We may act all high and mighty, but we aren't.

/And you're being silly if you don't think that prejudices play into court rooms, even today. We do our best to stop them, but the more institutionalized they become- the harder it is.

Does not approve:



(Not to be confused with Wyclef Jean.)

patrick767: That and treating women as property.

That's not Medieval. The idea effectively ended in 1882 in the UK.

It gradually disappeared around the same time in the US, as judicial interpretation of the various acts passed after the Civil War came to accept that women had rights, not just blacks.

/ So you can accuse the Taliban of being 100 years out of date. But not 150 or more...

Why are you under the impression that we're "trying to help" them?

seriously. we went their to kick their asses after 9/11. the whole installing democracy thing is a sideline

Shariah law is applied differently in Islamic states. Saudi Arabia claims the Quran as its constitution, while Malaysia has separate religious and secular courts.

For Allah's sake...get out of the damn middle ages.

Lionel Mandrake: For Allah's sake...get out of the damn middle ages.

never happen. they don't have any hierarchy to reform against, like luther did.

and, while it doesn't make semantic sense, this religion's radicals are its conservatives, not its liberals. so if they reform the religion, it's likely to be reformed even more conservatively

netweavr: In January 2008, a court sentenced a journalism student to death for blasphemy for asking questions about women's rights under Islam. An appeals court reduced the sentence to 20 years in prison. His lawyers appealed again and the case is pending.

See Bible-thumpers? THIS is why people do NOT want religion and politics mixing.

People do not want this country to end up with this mentality.

Not a big surprise, the religion of peace answer to everything is death

Why are we trying to fix that unfixable mess? We should just stick to what we are good at; blowing shiat up.

About the best we could hope for in Afghanistan is a Saddam clone; a ruthless secular dictator.

sloppy shoes: clancifer: So you agree that their culture hasn't evolved then, eh?

I think there are a lot of Muslims that are not radical and quite willing to embrace human rights. You are grossly over stereotyping them.

Weird how they only seem to exist in nations where Islam is minority, isn't it?

Can you show me a transcript of an imam calling for peace, tolerance and moderation from a nation with a dominant Islamic population?

As a comparison, I could probably show you transcripts of hundreds of such sermons from Christian pastors in nations with an evangelical majority.

sorry for bold - I blame food coma

Anavrinman: sloppy shoes:

However, if you don't speak English in certain states, you are looked down upon.

That's because this is AMERICA where we speak AMERICAN.

No stupid. You only have to speak American in REAL AMERICA!

Anavrinman: sloppy shoes:

However, if you don't speak English in certain states, you are looked down upon.

That's because this is AMERICA where we speak AMERICAN.

Don't forget your sign:

Darconix: albo: Why are you under the impression that we're "trying to help" them?

seriously. we went their to kick their asses after 9/11. the whole installing democracy thing is a sideline

THIS.

We should just bug the fark out of Muslim countries (Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, etc.) and just resort to dropping carpetbombs on their heads if they get out of line in the future. A well placed nuke on Kandahar on Sept 12, 2001, would've saved us a lot of shiat and would've sent the right message to the keepers of the cages that contain the crazies to police their own.

Sure, so long as other nations can do the same to us when we step out of line.

We would have caught a few MIRV's for that Gitmo thing alone.

Anavrinman: sorry for bold - I blame food coma

True AMERICANS shout everything very assertively. I don't think your a Real American, if you only did it on accident.

Hey, this almost worked out as well as us pushing for democracy in the West Bank and having Hamas get elected to government and legitimized. Woo-hooo.

nosferatublue: Can you show me a transcript of an imam calling for peace, tolerance and moderation from a nation with a dominant Islamic population?

Well, outside of the obvious example in the link itself, where it was a fellow Muslim cleric who promoted the printing of the Quran in Afghani languages, here is one from 2003 that was found by searching Yahoo: it was the first link.

Link (new window)

"To America and its allies we say: where are your honeysweet promises? Now is the time to fulfill them," Sheikh Ahmad al- Issawi said.

"Where is the government? Till now the country is without a government.

"Install a government as quickly as possible even if it is an emergency government."

The sheikh urged Iraqis to rise above ethnic or sectarian divides.

"We have to close ranks, we are all Muslims... let's turn a new page and let's cooperate for a free and independent Iraq."


But carry on with your ignorant stereotyping, chauvinist pig.

Darconix: Bullshiat. Gitmo remains an entirely appropriate place to house al Qaeda farkups. And if the farking frogs in France want to swap nukes with us, then I say Badoodle Boo-Yeah cheese-eating surrender monkeys! We'll liberate the fark out of your Eiffel Tower!

Is that a Get Fuzzy quote? I think it is.

Submitted this with a "religion of peace" quip.

I wonder if part of this is also a power thing. You know, make sure the illiterate masses can't actually read the holy book. Christianity did the same for a while.