A disc golf course that employs 4 people at a cost of $800k is not stimulus.
Making a bus top prettier is not stimulus. Link (new window)
(These projects are only submitted to be approved, but the House bill doesn't spell out where all the money is going.)

Not even one of the drafters thinks it much of a stimulus: But there's also money for fresh sod for the National Mall and millions of $40 coupons to help people adapt their old televisions for digital signals, raising questions about how efficient the legislation would be in creating jobs. Even bill drafters such as Appropriations Committee Chairman David Obey, D-Wis., admits that much of the money won't flow into the economy immediately. (new window)


Jobs that are construction in nature, that are short term, at high cost, and that don't contribute to financial gain is not stimulus. Those types of items are spending.

Can we just have a clean bill that actually will get money into the economy that will help grow it rather than fear monger our way into deeper national debt?

when that 800k is spent, think of the jobs of the construction workers who built it. Think of the cement truck drivers, the lumber yard workers, the diggers, the landscapers, and the equipement manufactuers. Employs 4 people? To BUILD A PARK??

Good god you're retarded. Back away from the keyboard. The spending is to provide WORK. Think of the BUILDING of the park. Not the maintenance of it.

lionfish: Good god you're retarded. Back away from the keyboard. The spending is to provide WORK. Think of the BUILDING of the park. Not the maintenance of it.

You realize that a disc gold course is nothing more than planting 18 poles with some chains and a basket right into the ground right? Other than mowing the lawn there are next to no residual jobs that help the economy. The jobs that created the park disappear in a relatively short amount of time.

You need to get away from the idea that only infrastructure building is the way for stimulus. While a boon for construction workers it does little for the rest of us. That's where lower tax rates, and they've been proposed by Obama, are far better and faster at aiding an economic recovery. With more people with more money they earned to spend, they will spend it and that will provide capital to hire new employees.

Not all of the bill is a bad idea but can we at least have a real discussion of eliminating blatant waste that costs all of us down the road?

lionfish: when that 800k is spent, think of the jobs of the construction workers who built it. Think of the cement truck drivers, the lumber yard workers, the diggers, the landscapers, and the equipement manufactuers. Employs 4 people? To BUILD A PARK??

Good god you're retarded. Back away from the keyboard. The spending is to provide WORK. Think of the BUILDING of the park. Not the maintenance of it.

I want to own a theme park too. Obama needs to build me one. Think of all the people it will employ.

lionfish: when that 800k is spent, think of the jobs of the construction workers who built it. Think of the cement truck drivers, the lumber yard workers, the diggers, the landscapers, and the equipement manufactuers. Employs 4 people? To BUILD A PARK??

Good god you're retarded. Back away from the keyboard. The spending is to provide WORK. Think of the BUILDING of the park. Not the maintenance of it.

Wait wait wait... are you saying the money will TRICKLE DOWN? I don't think you're allowed to insinuate that in an obama thread.

muck4doo: lionfish: when that 800k is spent, think of the jobs of the construction workers who built it. Think of the cement truck drivers, the lumber yard workers, the diggers, the landscapers, and the equipement manufactuers. Employs 4 people? To BUILD A PARK??

Good god you're retarded. Back away from the keyboard. The spending is to provide WORK. Think of the BUILDING of the park. Not the maintenance of it.

I want to own a theme park too. Obama needs to build me one. Think of all the people it will employ.

Oh, and before you go questioning my ability to run a theme park I will let you know I have mastered Rollercoaster Tycoon. I have as much experience running a business as Obama.

How much of this bill is Tax Cuts?

Because for god's sake, that's the only way to stimulate the economy.

If we hadn't been so wrapped up in the abortion-peddling welfare culture of the past 10 years, and had instead slashed taxes for corporations and wealthy citizens, we would be seeing an unemployment rate of 2%, rather than pushing 12.

Right?

unlikely: How much of this bill is Tax Cuts?

Because for god's sake, that's the only way to stimulate the economy.

If we hadn't been so wrapped up in the abortion-peddling welfare culture of the past 10 years, and had instead slashed taxes for corporations and wealthy citizens, we would be seeing an unemployment rate of 2%, rather than pushing 12.

Right?

My theme park will have a section dedicated to abortion. One of the rides involves being being sucked by vacuum through the tunnel of love. Make sure to keep an eye out for the man in the boat.

The dining in that section will be awesome. Be sure to try the shish kabob.

muck4doo: Make sure to keep an eye out for the man in the boat.fark! I always miss him!

The second image is total number of jobs, excluding farms and the WPA. Now, you may ask what is that little drop in 1938. Well, in 1937, conservative economic-minded lawmakers stripped down the New Deal, reducing government spending on the claim that the New Deal throttled business activities. The result was a minor recession. It ended next year when spending was increased back again.

And we are now doing the same thing again. The Republicans want to do what those lawmakers did in 1937. We already know how this turns out. Increase spending or this thing is going to get worse. Stop listening to the Republicans people, history has already proved them wrong.

GAT_00: Increase spending or this thing is going to get worse.

There's good spending and there's bad spending. You could send a billion dollars in 10s and 20s to a company that would burn them in an incinerator to make heat for their building that houses the incinerator and its crew, but how many jobs would that create? That's bad spending. Or you could build a new bridge/highway/airport with it and gain the benefits of infrastructure that makes it easier, cheaper, and/or simpler for businesses to operate. That's good spending.

This bill is full of bad spending. Only 10% is for infrastructure.

I'm so glad America made the right choice this time. Yeah... yeah... it's possible that he'll totally blow it by the end of his Presidency, but so far I'm still proud to say he's our President.

Alien Robot: This bill is full of bad spending. Only 10% is for infrastructure.

Citation? - not being a shiat, I really would like to see. I haven't looked at the official website that lists everything in detail and haven't gone poking around for a reliable summary.

Somebody put together a type of mirror site, listing the detail but allowing commentary and voting. Their summary page only lists the number of projects by type and does not include total spending or number of jobs per type. (new window)

I know they can bury lots of crap in the details but the project types listed are ALL pretty much infrastructure.

JohnnyC: I'm so glad America made the right choice this time. Yeah... yeah... it's possible that he'll totally blow it by the end of his Presidency, but so far I'm still proud to say he's our President.

Proud that he's ours?

what? did we raise him from childhood?
was there a olympic like competition for him between competing countries?
Did we make him with our own hands?
He was elected cause he was the best choice this go around, really the only choice.

what is to be proud of?
I really don't get it.

"I welcome this debate, but we are not going to get relief by turning back to the same policies that for the last eight years doubled the national debt and threw our economy into a tailspin," said President Obama - sounding more like Candidate Obama than at any time since he took the oath of office less than a month ago."

Farkin' A.

If pubs are going to be children about this kick the assholes to the curb.

Only point he's wrong on is that conservative economic policies have been farkin' this country over for a lot longer that 8 years.

Alien Robot: This bill is full of bad spending.

As usual, a right winger misses the point completely and just repeats the whargarrbl that the rest of the party is spouting.

I wish at this point the Democrats would just get their votes together and pass the package. There's no point in negotiating anymore.

Why not spend money on vastly improved body armor? It's cutting edge science, high paying jobs...oh wait, it's military related.

Edsel: Alien Robot: This bill is full of bad spending.

As usual, a right winger misses the point completely and just repeats the whargarrbl that the rest of the party is spouting.

I wish at this point the Democrats would just get their votes together and pass the package. There's no point in negotiating anymore.

You just went full retard.

Wicked Libertarian: Edsel: Alien Robot: This bill is full of bad spending.

As usual, a right winger misses the point completely and just repeats the whargarrbl that the rest of the party is spouting.

I wish at this point the Democrats would just get their votes together and pass the package. There's no point in negotiating anymore.

You just went full retard.

A Libertarian calling someone else a retard? Hah, that's rich.

Edsel: Alien Robot: This bill is full of bad spending.

As usual, a right winger misses the point completely and just repeats the whargarrbl that the rest of the party is spouting.

I wish at this point the Democrats would just get their votes together and pass the package. There's no point in negotiating anymore.

Yup. They aren't serious people.

Edsel:
I wish at this point the Democrats would just get their votes together and pass the package. There's no point in negotiating anymore.

you need 60 votes to pass the senate.

the republican position here is starkly and dangerously bullshiat. the whole point is to shovel money out the door as quickly and as brazenly as possible. we're in a death spiral. almost all the banks are just dead in the water. you need a) money flowing and b) confidence returning. the one thing you can do is sit around and biatch for political gain, in an attempt to weaken Obama. but that's what they're doing and that's what they do and the way to respond is to truck out warren buffet or any extremely well-respected money person and have them explain how moronic the whole thing is and how the stimulus should really be twice as big as they're proposing.

If Obama took the gloves off once in a while and didn't have to be PC the Repubs would shiat their panties.

Blackneto: Proud that he's ours?

Yes.

what? did we raise him from childhood?

In a sense, yes. He appears to me to be a very good man and a fine example of a good American. He has qualities I admire and weather you like it or not, he is a product of our society.

was there a olympic like competition for him between competing countries?

Almost... His step father would have preferred that he had become a part of his nation. Although I doubt that is what you were barking at. Also, in a sense our country is somewhat divided, and he did win a rather big competition. A few of them actually.

Did we make him with our own hands?

Not exactly, but we did contribute towards helping him become the man he is today, including electing him President of the United States. But I think I covered that already with my second answer.

He was elected cause he was the best choice this go around, really the only choice.

He wasn't the only choice, just the only good choice (in my opinion) and I agree that he was elected because he was the best choice this go around.

what is to be proud of?

Making the right choice as a country. The last two times we didn't make the right choice (in my opinion). I am proud that we did this time. I feel like America made a more informed choice. That, for me, is a damn good thing.

I'm proud of him for how well he is handling the enormous and incredibly difficult job we've hired him to do. He still has a long road ahead of him, but already he has show the ability to admit mistakes, stand up against stupid partisan bullshiat, restore at least a portion of our integrity as a country, and helped many of us find at least a little hope for our country's future. Yeah, it's possible that the hope people like myself feel right now could be crushed and it wouldn't be the first time for any of us to have some hope of ours crushed. I'm confident so far that at the very least, we will see some good come out of the next four years and perhaps a lot of good. But that all remains to be seen.

I really don't get it.

Yeah, I can tell. Some people do, some people don't. Maybe it's better for you that you don't. I hear ignorance is bliss.

"Well now that the swings are broken there's no place else to play. The slide's rusted, the see-saw neither sees nor saws and someone's taken a huge shiat in the sandbox. Now what are we going to do?"

"Hey, I know. Let's throw rocks at the grown-ups trying to fix it."

Blackneto: was there a olympic like competition for him between competing countries?

If you don't want him, we'll take him. You can have Blair, you guys seem to like him for some reason.

Edsel: Wicked Libertarian: Edsel: Alien Robot: This bill is full of bad spending.

As usual, a right winger misses the point completely and just repeats the whargarrbl that the rest of the party is spouting.

I wish at this point the Democrats would just get their votes together and pass the package. There's no point in negotiating anymore.

You just went full retard.

A Libertarian calling someone else a retard? Hah, that's rich.

At least I'm principled. You democrats and republicans are two sides of the same coin. You both believe that runaway spending is alright as long as it's "your guy" doing the spending. Now that's rich.

Here's what's going on. The republicans are not going to vote for this regardless of what is in it.
They want to wash their hands of the economic mess they've made and this is their way of disowning it and passing it off wholly to the Dems.
That way they can stand back and cry socialism while they sabotage it by getting their media machine to denounce it,picking it apart,making mountains out of molehills and distorting every aspect of it. Anything that isn't a tax cut is labeled "pork".

Of course the dittoheads eat it up and it fuels their indignation.

So if I were Obama I'd do this. I'd get on television and address the American people in primetime and lay it all back on the GOP.
I'd call them obstructionists and explain to the people exactly what they were doing and why in no uncertain terms.
I'd say that we tried the bi-partisan approach and it doesn't work when you have people who won't vote for any spending and will only crusade for more tax cuts.

I's tell the American people that we were taking the bill and shelving it. Then when you lose your job or your home. I want you to remember who started this mess and who obstructed the relief plan. You created it GOP. You tried to pass it off on us but it's not going to work. We aren't going to take the fall for your ignorance and stubbornness.

Sorry all you state govts out there that can't make payroll.
I suggest you write your republican representatives who were obstructing this and thank them.

All you people out there who are looking for food stamps or unemployment or any type of assistance but it's all gone.
We tried to help you but there are roadblocks in the way.

Unchecked Enthusiasm: "Hey, I know. Let's throw rocks at the grown-ups trying to fix it."

Surely, the best way to get people to agree to a compromise is to be a condescending dickbag to them.

It's amazing how the people who whined about Republican partisanship and unilateralism for the past 8 years suddenly seem to relish the prospect of Democrats ramming their agenda down all of our throats.

goodbomb: you need 60 votes to pass the senate.

I want to see them filibuster. I want to see that. I want to see the groundswell of public outrage and excoriation of the Republican party that would come from a filibuster of this very popular stimulus idea.

I want to see Harry Reid and Joe Biden forcing the Republicans to grind all Senate business to a halt. I want to hear Mitch McConnell singing EIEIO for seventeen hours straight and Saxby Chambliss reading Shelby Foote into the record. I want John McCain and Olympia Snowe to be seen whispering conspiratorially in the corner.

I want the U.S. to rediscover the meaning of the word "chamber" pot.

/you've got your 60 votes right here, bucko

Hobodeluxe: Here's what's going on.

...The beginning of at least four years of "B... b... b... BUSH!"?

Hobodeluxe: I's tell the American people that we were taking the bill and shelving it. Then when you lose your job or your home. I want you to remember who started this mess and who obstructed the relief plan.

Schadenfreude we can believe in.

Wicked Libertarian: Edsel: Wicked Libertarian: Edsel: Alien Robot: This bill is full of bad spending.

As usual, a right winger misses the point completely and just repeats the whargarrbl that the rest of the party is spouting.

I wish at this point the Democrats would just get their votes together and pass the package. There's no point in negotiating anymore.

You just went full retard.

A Libertarian calling someone else a retard? Hah, that's rich.

At least I'm principled. You democrats and republicans are two sides of the same coin. You both believe that runaway spending is alright as long as it's "your guy" doing the spending. Now that's rich.

This. The bailout has never made me believe that people were so unprincipled in my life. I always thought dems were about trying to help the middle class and the little guy and now all they want to do are bail out corporations. It's sick. I thought they were going to instate paygo and they certainly don't seem to want to. No one cares about the debt. All anyone cares about is spending to the point we are so inflated this "recession" (please - this is already a depression- stop kidding yourselves) goes on for a decade.

Zagloba: very popular stimulus idea.

I don't thin that is quite right, but if they do filibuster there will be a backlash. At this point something needs to be done even if its the wrong thing.

\ and no I don't think its the wrong thing

With more people with more money they earned to spend, they will spend it and that will provide capital to hire new employees.

Sounds like trickle down to me and I've seen twice in my life how horrid an idea trickle down economics has been.

GAT_00: The Republicans want to do what those lawmakers did in 1937.

Yep

Unless people start getting active in writing their congressmen to put the smack down on petty obstructionism, We're going to far worse off with Republican leadership defining the debate -- and they're doing a damn fine job of it right now.

Look, just because the Democratic congress spent the last two years licking Bush's boots, that doesn't mean that Republicans are obliged to abandon their role as the opposition.

GoldSpider: Hobodeluxe: Here's what's going on.

...The beginning of at least four years of "B... b... b... BUSH!"?


"B... b... b... the guy who caused all these problems!"

Clinton's problem: Hummer.
Bush's problem: Record spending, unnecessary wars, destroyed economy, rampant partisanship, destroyed US integrity.

There is a slight difference here.

If the Republicans only want to complain and biatch and obstruct, I agree that Obama should go on national TV and call them out. Let the public realize that the Democrats have already added tax cuts to the bill, and the Republicans are still not going to vote for it. They aren't going to vote for it because they're doing nothing but being obstructionists; if Obama wants it they're going to oppose it, because like little kids who had their toys taken from them, all they know what to do is pout and whine.

While I'd like to see more infrastructure funding in this bill, it's got plenty of good stuff in it that the states desperately need, far more than the amount of pork the Republicans like to point at. They need to STFU and either get on board or get out of the way.

No shiat Mr. President so how about spending it wisely.

GoldSpider: Unchecked Enthusiasm: "Hey, I know. Let's throw rocks at the grown-ups trying to fix it."

Surely, the best way to get people to agree to a compromise is to be a condescending dickbag to them.

It's amazing how the people who whined about Republican partisanship and unilateralism for the past 8 years suddenly seem to relish the prospect of Democrats ramming their agenda down all of our throats.

Blow it out your ass. Nothing has changed. Republicans are partisan douchebags whether in the majority or the minority.

The craziest person in the room tends to control the debate. That's because sane, rational people seek for consensus through accomodation.

THAT'S why the stimulus bill has faced some trouble this week, not that Republicans are making reasonable arguments. They aren't. They don't deserve anything but scorn.

Snowflake Tubbybottom: Can we just have a clean bill that actually will get money into the economy that will help grow it rather than fear monger our way into deeper national debt?

Fear mongering? The Republicans would never allow THAT!

_9/11

Yes it was all the spending that helped America recover from the Depression. Not at all the money they made producing weapons and giving out loans. Why have people ignored what effect WW2 has on the US economy and focused on the spend spend spend part of post depression thinking?

If you're not making money, all these spending will do is build up a much larger deficit that will take decades to recover from. Compare post WW2 USA to the UK which arguably didn't become prosperous until the 80's. The US had streams of money coming in, the UK was crippled by debt.

abigsmurf: Yes it was all the spending that helped America recover from the Depression. Not at all the money they made producing weapons and giving out loans. Why have people ignored what effect WW2 has on the US economy and focused on the spend spend spend part of post depression thinking?

If you're not making money, all these spending will do is build up a much larger deficit that will take decades to recover from. Compare post WW2 USA to the UK which arguably didn't become prosperous until the 80's. The US had streams of money coming in, the UK was crippled by debt.

The USA used to be a place full of innovation and manufacturing. We used to have the highest technology in the world and more manufacturers. We don't now. All we have now are people who sit in offices or move stuff around. We don't export nearly enough goods to make ourselves viable like we were back in that age. We don't have the capacity to compete with world markets to do so either because our wage standards are so high (and we can't lower them because our cost of living is so high). This spending bill is not going to make us soar into a new era like after WWII.

Unchecked Enthusiasm
"Well now that the swings are broken there's no place else to play. The slide's rusted, the see-saw neither sees nor saws and someone's taken a huge shiat in the sandbox. Now what are we going to do?"

"Hey, I know. Let's throw rocks examine the grown-ups elected officials who broke it all to begin with . trying to fix it."

FTFY

Blathering Idjut: THAT'S why the stimulus bill has faced some trouble this week, not that Republicans are making reasonable arguments. They aren't. They don't deserve anything but scorn.

Not entirely fair to say it's only Republican obstructionism that has hurt this bill.

Do you really think every piece of spending proposed is legitimate? I'm not trying to say the Repubs motives are all pure but this is what opposition is for.

ace in your face: No one cares about the debt. All anyone cares about is spending to the point we are so inflated this "recession" (please - this is already a depression- stop kidding yourselves) goes on for a decade.

The FED has interest rates at near 0%. Banks aren't lending and consumers are cutting back. Unemployment is heading for double digits. The world economy is slowing to a near standstill.

If you don't think things can and would get much, much worse if the government doesn't take action to do something about that in the form of spending through stimulus then I don't know what to tell you.

Hang On Voltaire: No shiat Mr. President so how about spending it wisely.

I think he is. Also, according to Keynesian Theory, spending it wisely at this point would be paying people to dig holes and to fill them up.

New railroads, new repair and upkeep projects, infrastructure projects, community service programs, endowments to the arts, MOTHERFARKING HEALTH CARE, respectable public transit, academics, tax cuts for the average american who needs a mostly necessity based income, new jobs, clean and renewable energy and more money circling hands are all good things, great things to be spending on. zoos and digital cable aint half bad either. I agree with this man on the vast majority of issues and on this one in particular i think he is quite right.

Last, obama admits when he makes mistakes, so if the plan is up and not working, it will change, it will be improved. if there has ever been one thing shown by law it is easier to amend it then to create it (paycaps for bailout execs, anyone?) so I say we do it.

/and now no one will listen to my 20 year old crazy libtard ass, smell that, that. is. america!!

I'm glad none of you are the current President of the United States because..
NONE OF YOU KNOW WTF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
I weep for you all.

Boehner: I don't understand why the Dems won't just let us dump this mess in their laps and wash our hands of it entirely.
This is our golden opportunity to make them own the crisis.
Then in 2012 we can point to their failure and get votes.
The dittoheads love this shiat.

President Obama,

Please do this kind of thing more often. Say what you feel. Say what we need to hear. We didn't elect your teleprompter.

Damn, I adore that man.

(Meanwhile, Congressional Democrats can suck it.)
(Congressional Republicans too)