Well it's all about hoping Obama fails, right? Isn't that the new Republican goal in life?

Should have gone with RON PAUL

/diet RON PA-.......?

Confabulat: Well it's all about hoping Obama Bush fails, right? Isn't that the new Republican Democrat goal in life?

Sound familiar?

PacManDreaming: Confabulat: Well it's all about hoping Obama Bush fails, right? Isn't that the new Republican Democrat goal in life?

Sound familiar?

I think it was more hoping he be impeached after failing... though he never really stopped failing.

PacManDreaming: Sound familiar?

not really.

Newsflash: the worse the party in power looks, the better the opposition does.

/now, can anyone tell me what water feels like?

PacManDreaming: Confabulat: Well it's all about hoping Obama Bush fails, right? Isn't that the new Republican Democrat goal in life?

Sound familiar?

I've been a pretty staunch D for some time and I will say, I never HOPED Bush would fail. I feared it, and even expected it, but I never wanted to be right about him.

log_jammin: not really.

Were you asleep the previous eight years? I never heard so much whining and crying from Lefties in my life.

Now that the Republicans have lost, get ready to hear them whining and crying until they get the White House back.

ipsofacto: ...though he never really stopped failing.

And we're gonna have to deal with the fallout from his failings for years to come. And as for him being tried for war crimes, I don't see that happening either. If Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon got away with it, you better believe Bush will, too.

Last One Left: now, can anyone tell me what water feels like?

Blue?

I Googled for over five minutes, trying to see if trickle-down economics actually has proof of it working. I failed. It did, however, potentially contribute (new window) to an increase in inner-city poverty, among other things. But of course, they're not going to admit they're wrong, so the Republicans will keep pushing for tax cuts until the end of time.

/the stimulus bill should be more targeted, though.

PacManDreaming: Were you asleep the previous eight years? I never heard so much whining and crying from Lefties in my life.

there's a difference.

When bush took office there was whining about shiat like "Ashcroft is racist cause he gave an interview to a civil war magazine!" after that it hd to do with thousands of people dieing and turning a surplus into crushing debt.

Now we have "but was he REALLY born in the US?????" and stalling bills "just because" not based on any sort of "principal". How do we now it's not genuine? They had no problems with spend the last 8 years. Now its suddenly a big deal to the again.

PacManDreaming: Confabulat: Well it's all about hoping Obama Bush fails, right? Isn't that the new Republican Democrat goal in life?

Sound familiar?

Not to me. I never hoped Bush would fail. I just stared in horror as he managed to do it anyway, over and over for eight years.

Anyone who truly hopes the President of the US is a failure is a traitor, in my opinion, no matter what side you prefer.

This isn't a "strange" position at all. The dems have been in a position of benefiting from bad news for years now.

PacManDreaming: Were you asleep the previous eight years? I never heard so much whining and crying from Lefties in my life.

People who had a lick of intelligence whined about Bush because he was embarrassing, stupid, and an amazingly terrible President.

In other words, he was judged on his actions.

Republicans hate Obama just because they hate him.

Typical of the American right-wing. It's not a place you look for intelligent, rational folks.

I think we need a new one of that image of the Jury scene with "I don't care how many americans die" etc etc, only something relating to the economy.
You know the one?

log_jammin: They had no problems with spend the last 8 years. Now its suddenly a big deal to the again.

I'm not sure if I'm right about this (and I'm probably not), but I think it's about the difference between temporary spending and permanent spending.

Republicans now favor the former, while Democrats favor mostly the latter. During Bush's Administration, they spent more on temporary/transient things, IIRC.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

PacManDreaming: Well it's all about hoping Bush fails, right?

No. There've been so many words shoved in the mouths of the left that I'm surprised they're not coming out peoples' ears. Go back and look if you want, and you'll find precious few people actually wishing for the failure of the person who runs the highest office in the nation. Pretty much everyone stood in lock step behind the president for years after 9/11, and even after his policies started faltering people were actually AFRAID to voice criticism for some time so as to avoid appearing unpatriotic. Almost no one hoped the man responsible for steering the country would run it aground. People reacted with anger and frustration BECAUSE he ran it aground.

Comparatively, now you have party mouthpieces for the opposition on syndicated radio and national television essentially calling out to the heavens for the nation to fail. And people justify it by saying that Bush was shat on for his entire presidency. Despite him having the highest approval rating EVER at one point. It makes no damn sense! In fact, it's particularly galling because they're going to trigger outrage fatigue in the populace and get to the point of crying wolf in the eyes of the citizenry. Once that happens, even IF (when?) Obama seriously screws the pooch on something there won't be an effective avenue of criticism for it because it gets lost in the continual stream of crap being flung at the wall simply to see if anything sticks in the mind as a "scandal."

I mean, seriously. It's been literally just over TWO WEEKS. Isn't that a bit early to be going all the way to wailing and gnashing of teeth? The hysterics just make the very people who you want listening to you tune you out.

That article is as useless as Republicans.

And Democrats.

Last One Left: I'm not sure if I'm right about this (and I'm probably not), but I think it's about the difference between temporary spending and permanent spending.

Republicans now favor the former, while Democrats favor mostly the latter. During Bush's Administration, they spent more on temporary/transient things, IIRC.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I really don't know anymore. All I hear the republicans say on the matter is "PORK!PORK!PORK!PORK!"

log_jammin: I really don't know anymore.

Neither do I. I think a payroll tax cut makes sense. Some of the other things I've heard will take too long to actually be stimulating. But, I don't get to decide anyway.

All I hear the republicans say on the matter is "PORK!PORK!PORK!PORK!"

You know what other group doesn't like pork?

/muslims

log_jammin: All I hear the republicans say on the matter is "PORK!PORK!PORK!PORK!"

Well it goes without saying they sure got a purty mouth...

Hmmm. This all seems so...unpatriotic.

Why do Republicans hate our freedoms?

Last One Left: You know what other group doesn't like pork?

jews?

Last One Left: You know what other group doesn't like pork?

Hitler!

No wait, that's not right...

PacManDreaming: Confabulat: Well it's all about hoping Obama Bush fails, right? Isn't that the new Republican Democrat goal in life?

Sound familiar?

B...bu...but Bush!

log_jammin: Last One Left: You know what other group doesn't like pork?

jews?

*BUZZ* The answer he was fishing for was, "Muslims." Because comparing the GOP to a pack of filthy ragheads is the fastest way to raise their ire.

Oh, and PMD: call me when someone spits on you, calls you a filthy traitor, and threatens you with bodily harm because you dared state that one of Obama's policies would have negative consequences. Until then, stop equivocating the Bush II years and the nascent Obama years.

Confabulat: Republicans hate Obama just because they hate him.

Typical of the American right-wing. It's not a place you look for intelligent, rational folks.

I forgot, the Left is so enlightened that they would never belittle someone for thinking differently.

I do agree with you about Bush's failures, but you're missing the point. Lots of people on the Left wanted Bush to fail, that's how you gain a political advantage. I know I've seen numerous Farkers hoping Bush and the Republicans would fail(and no, I don't want to search through eight years of posts any more than you do). Our politics are coming full circle, just like they always have. The side out-of-power always hoses the side that's in power. Nothing new. The only problem is, this time, our economy is on the line.

The biggest difficulty the people face is that we can't get the real story from either side. The Democrats are gonna tell us this stimulus package is all rainbows and unicorns, the Republicans will be screaming about communism. Who is correct? We've seen a few non-Republican financial experts who say Obama's plan is crap. You can find just as many that will say it's great. Sadly, we aren't gonna know unless the plan is implemented and either succeeds or fails. Then you can legitimately say which side were idiots.

Well then the Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot. The recession will be over sometime in 2010. Which means the Dems can claim they did a great job.

Congrats Bush and Repubs, you lost the house, senate AND presidency for twenty years at least.

Occam's Chainsaw: Oh, and PMD: call me when someone spits on you, calls you a filthy traitor, and threatens you with bodily harm because you dared state that one of Obama's policies would have negative consequences. Until then, stop equivocating the Bush II years and the nascent Obama years.

Stick around. I'm sure you'll be seeing it shortly. Republicans don't have a monopoly on douchebaggery any more than Democrats have a monopoly on enlightenment.

Occam's Chainsaw: *BUZZ* The answer he was fishing for was, "Muslims." Because comparing the GOP to a pack of filthy ragheads is the fastest way to raise their ire.

Actually, I was looking for "tree-hugging, patchouli-smelling hippie vegetarians"*, so l_j was close with Hitler :P

*ignore the "muslims" in the slashies of the previous comment

FTA: The battle is over the economic stimulus package, which is supported by most of America.


Apparently, 37% = most of America...

Link (new window)

Keep praying for the country to fail, I'm sure you'll eventually see the flaw in your logic.

At the risk of injecting a few facts in this discussion - there's a storm brewing in the housing market and this time we're going to see a lot of the "The economy is fine, I'm doing great." Fark Independents^(TM) getting hit.

Last month, the Alt-A and Option-ARMs began resetting. These particular mortgage products were specialized in the above $500K property range. As of right now, nearly a third of them are in default but once the resets set in (second half of 2009 to perhaps the first quarter of 2010) the forecasts are that maybe as much as 70% of them will fail.

All those people who were thinking they were doing fine are all about to get wiped out. The ripple effect this will have on the housing market will "trickle" all the way down (please pardon the pun) and nothing teaches a conservative compassion like being financially wiped out.

Bootstrapped your way out of this, assholes.

What you're about to learn is what it's like to be in so deep that every single day is a struggle to keep your head above water. And the really funny thing is that you're now looking at the liberal policies to save your ass.

Bend over, we all get what we deserve in this life - even though some of us are collateral damage from what you all earned us.

It's coming and you'd better pray Obama can save your ass - because him failing is going to wipe.you.out.

PacManDreaming: Lots of people on the Left wanted Bush to fail, that's how you gain a political advantage. I know I've seen numerous Farkers

ANYONE, let me repeat that, ANYONE who roots for the President of the US to fail is a traitor and a terrible citizen, left or right.

PacManDreaming: I know I've seen numerous Farkers hoping Bush and the Republicans would fail

Hoping or predicting?

Sure Ive seen an obvious troll or two "hope" he failed. But I mostly seen predictions of failure.

PacManDreaming: Stick around. I'm sure you'll be seeing it shortly. Republicans don't have a monopoly on douchebaggery any more than Democrats have a monopoly on enlightenment.

I forgot that whole Fark Independent^tm ability to see into the future. M'bad.

Confabulat: Well it's all about hoping Obama Bush fails, right? Isn't that the new Republican Democrat goal in life?

Sound familiar?

in 8 years i never once heard a single person no matter how far to the left they were say they hoped that bush would fail with the joy that the far right says it about Obama. those of us on the left always said it with frustration after seeing what he was doing and knowing exactly how and why it was not going to work, like being 20 feet from a car wreck and seeing it about to happen but not having any power to stop the damage.

PacManDreaming: no, I don't want to search through eight years of posts any more than you do

That's because you won't find anything worth posting about. Bush had a NINETY-TWO PERCENT approval rating at one point. The highest in history. There were people claiming that the election was stolen, but that does not equal "I want him to fail." And after September 11th the entire nation supported him in absolutely everything all the way up until the clamors for Iraq started. Half a term of unconditional support. Even then no one hoped he failed and killed our citizens in a desert wasteland. They just expressed worry that he probably would, and his reasons didn't seem compelling.

PacManDreaming: The side out-of-power always hoses the side that's in power. Nothing new.

The new bit is the speed and severity of the criticism. I keep saying this, but we're two weeks into the Obama presidency and people are already calling him an abject failure as chief executive. That is extreme by any measure. I do not like the increasingly hostile and divisive tone being taken in politics these days. The lack of simple civility in political discourse right now is so severe that I actually expect a repeat of Sumner's caning to occur any day now on some cable "talking head" show. It isn't even disagreement with the opposition, it's to the point of accusations of treason and inhumanity. Our last election was so firey in its rhetoric that it inspired viable plots for assassination against the opposition.

Do you understand how scary that is? Our capability for rational disagreement has deteriorated to such a point that actual violence between representatives of the parties is plausible. The last time that happened to any reportable extent we were about to go into the Civil War.

cardex: those of us on the left always said it with frustration after seeing what he was doing and knowing exactly how and why it was not going to work, like being 20 feet from a car wreck and seeing it about to happen but not having any power to stop the damage.

Good analogy. Meanwhile the Bush supporters kept trying to explain to us that no, no, he's really smart and doing good things! That car wreck is awesome!

Right now (two weeks in!), the Republicans could care less what Obama does. He could cure cancer tomorrow and Republicans would call it a secret liberal plot to make more people vote Democratic...

Occam's Chainsaw: I forgot that whole Fark Independent^TM ability to see into the future. M'bad.

That's okay, we knew you would :)

Drakkenmaw: Our last election was so firey in its rhetoric that it inspired viable plots for assassination against the opposition.

Do you understand how scary that is? Our capability for rational disagreement has deteriorated to such a point that actual violence between representatives of the parties is plausible. The last time that happened to any reportable extent we were about to go into the Civil War.

Or made a movie depicting a certain sitting president being assassinated...perhaps hoping to inspire someone? Hmmm...do tell.

To think that there weren't any Farkers posting about how they hoped Bush would fail, is crazy or outright denial on your part. Do you honestly think only Republicans are capable of being asshats and that Democrats would never stoop to such levels? Like I told someone earlier, neither side has a monopoly on good or evil.

PacManDreaming: The biggest difficulty the people face is that we can't get the real story from either side. The Democrats are gonna tell us this stimulus package is all rainbows and unicorns, the Republicans will be screaming about communism. Who is correct? We've seen a few non-Republican financial experts who say Obama's plan is crap. You can find just as many that will say it's great. Sadly, we aren't gonna know unless the plan is implemented and either succeeds or fails. Then you can legitimately say which side were idiots.

And there is one of the core problems in Washington today: A near-complete inability for the parties to compromise and get *something* that may or may not work out the door, because arguing and stalling only guarantees that things will get worse.

PacManDreaming: Or made a movie depicting a certain sitting president being assassinated...perhaps hoping to inspire someone?

That's a load of nonsense. That movie was basically a sci-fi "What if" flick; in no way did it suggest that anyone actually kill Bush.

Of course, Republicans are not very good at subtlety and completely were unable to understand that, as usual.

So, this bill is going to fix everything that the repubs voting against in the last decade? That will fix the economy for sure.

Confabulat: Right now (two weeks in!), the Republicans could care less what Obama does. He could cure cancer tomorrow and Republicans would call it a secret liberal plot to make more people vote Democratic...

This is gonna be Obama's biggest challenge. Due to the fickleness of the average American voter, when they don't get their "Hope and Change" after four years, they're gonna be looking for someone else. And with the mess Bush left this nation in, I don't see Obama getting anything "fixed" in this term. Even if he's doing the right thing now, it'll probably be after his first term before we see any real benefits.

Confabulat: That's a load of nonsense. That movie was basically a sci-fi "What if" flick; in no way did it suggest that anyone actually kill Bush.

Of course, Republicans are not very good at subtlety and completely were unable to understand that, as usual.

Remake that movie with Obama and see if you feel the same way.

PacManDreaming: To think that there weren't any Farkers posting about how they hoped Bush would fail, is crazy or outright denial on your part.

Do I think there are NONE of those postings? That would be silliness. Do I think they are a vast minimum compared to right-wing postings making similar statements right now? Absolutely. Did any of those people operate major media outlets at the time? You know the answer to that one.

PacManDreaming: Or made a movie depicting a certain sitting president being assassinated...perhaps hoping to inspire someone? Hmmm...do tell.

That didn't sit well with me. Neither do any of the people who called for Bush or Cheney to face physical harm for their actions while in office. I actually AM a moderate - I'm a social liberal, economic conservative, nation-first sort of guy - and the idea of anyone advocating the failure or injury of the head of state over policy disagreements strikes me as the worst sort of self-centeredness. Predicting doom is understandable if you think doom is coming, but HOPING FOR doom so you can be demonstrated correct? You are a failure as an American.

PacManDreaming: Remake that movie with Obama and see if you feel the same way.

It would be a vastly different movie, as all the supporting characters have changed, but I'd be ok with it.

I don't have a problem with free speech and I think all movies have a right to be made.

I'm not a shrill little Republican, after all.

Confabulat: I don't have a problem with free speech and I think all movies have a right to be made.

I'm not a shrill little Republican, after all.

I don't wanna be around if it is made. There's a lot of people in your party that wouldn't see things your way.

I have no problem with freedom of speech, but to make a movie depicting the assassination of a real, living elected official...that's not such a hot idea. Some people may get the wrong idea. I mean, if I made a movie about people running around and bashing well known, real life gay people and made it look like it was fun and was for the betterment of the nation, I could call it free speech, but there are some people that might see it as a how-to guide.

Besides, if that movie was remade with Obama, the theaters would be overflowing with KKK spooge. They already do enough stupid stuff, let's not inspire them to do more.

/notice, I never said any of this should be illegal
//it's just not a good idea

It isn't hoping for failure, it's expecting it and wanting to be way far away when the public goes looking for those responsible. Obama must be thinking this too, given how much time and effort he's taking to try to con some Republicans to sign on to the pork festival that's the 'stimulus' bill. the media too, given how much shiat they're heaping on Republicans because they won't provide the administration some human shields for the upcoming disaster.

jjorsett: It isn't hoping for failure...

"I hope he fails." -Rush Limbaugh

Try again.