The sooner we all start doing business with people who are in the business of selling whatever goods or service it says on the sign, and not the debt business, the better off things will be.

Stop paying banks to use your own money and stop doing business with people who have their noses up ass of banks.

Their prices will adjust accordingly.

I don't own a car you insensitive clod!

/Mass transit and bicycles get me everywhere I want to go.

bunner: The sooner we all start doing business with people who are in the business of selling whatever goods or service it says on the sign, and not the debt business, the better off things will be.

"Debt is the most aggressively marketed product in the United States today."

-Dave Ramsey

Oh for Fark's sake. People are farking stupid. I don;t know if it's common practice, but it would never occur to me to trade in a car I didn't own outright. I mean, I suppose it could happen that you have a new business and need to trade in the sedan for a pickup, but... come on. Thats probably a very small portion of the people who do this. Why would you trade in a car you still owed on? Why not just lease?

this is why i'm waiting till my car is paid off before I think of getting another one.


/last payment will be in April.

Benevolent Misanthrope: Oh for Fark's sake. People are farking stupid. I don;t know if it's common practice, but it would never occur to me to trade in a car I didn't own outright. I mean, I suppose it could happen that you have a new business and need to trade in the sedan for a pickup, but... come on. Thats probably a very small portion of the people who do this. Why would you trade in a car you still owed on? Why not just lease?

For some, it's the American way. My stepfather was like this. He had a new vehicle every 3-4 years (this was before leasing). He just had to have the newest and flashiest everything.shiat, he was married five times.

/Self-image is a biatch.

PainInTheASP: /Self-image is a biatch.

I know this because Tyler knows this.

The other side of the story should worry you even more. You know that great deal you got on a used car? The dealer didn't actually own the car and you won't either until you pay off the previous owner's loan.

I thought you couldn't sell a car without getting a lien release from the lender. The state won't issue a new title without the signature. Maybe that's not the law in California.

Kreist, ZAZ. Hadn't thought of that.

This is why I'm saving up to buy my next car with cash, and buy a new one. I farking hate buying on credit. And now, it's even worse - you can get frakked six ways from Sunday, apparently. I'm hoping the only credit purchase I'll have to make from here on out is a house.

And this is why everyone in my family just buys the car outright.

Also, It seems odd that a family that could afford two Merc's now has to drive a 15 year old car.

urger: I don't own a car you insensitive clod!

/Mass transit and bicycles get me everywhere I want to go.

Sorry to hear that.

"Diabetes has to do with diet?? Oh, Liz Lemon! Next thing you'll be trying to tell me is that buying a sports car is a bad investment!"

Also, everyone who is thinking of buying a car and didn't take finance 101 in college, read this before you end up so upside down, all the blood rushes to your head and you die: http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html

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/ze clicky link, let me show you it

I see no problem with our current system, and neither do you.

So, instead of giving cars back, give them to me!
:D

clancifer: urger: I don't own a car you insensitive clod!

/Mass transit and bicycles get me everywhere I want to go.

Sorry to hear that.
I don't even have a bike. Feet for the win!

/uphill in the snow both ways
//up half an hour before I go to bed
///pay mill owner for privilege of coming to work
////and do you young'uns believe me?

Seems pretty straight forward to me: charge the management of the dealership with fraud, court orders the lien discharged and credit cleared.

Oh wait, probably not.

Miss Smartass: So, instead of giving cars back, give them to me!
:D

You're not even old enough to drive.

This happened with my aunt and uncle on a Hyundai, they told Hyundai to go fark themselves, eventually they stopped nagging them.

gmupps: Miss Smartass: So, instead of giving cars back, give them to me!
:D

You're not even old enough to drive.

By law, sure.

urger: I don't own a car you insensitive clod!

/Mass transit and bicycles get me everywhere I want to go.

I bet you are hit with the ladies.

Hey baby, take a seat on my Schwinn. lol

HaHa, I pay in cash biatches!

urger

I don't own a car you insensitive clod!

/Mass transit and bicycles get me everywhere I want to go.

Wow, you sound like a someone vested in mass transit.

/oh wait

I say charge the owners of the dealership with fraud and put them in jail. If I did this as a private person, that is what would happen to me.

The idea that people who just bought a used car could get screwed in this is a bit disturbing.

Silly me thought the idea of paying off the loan on a vehicle was so you owned it outright.

/Will be so glad when I make that last car payment.

If there are still liens on the car they traded in, then how is it that they don't still legally own the vehicle?

'Obvious' tag on vacation? So many people work 'the system' to their advantage, but when it suddenly works against them they cry like little biatches. You are poor because you are a loser, not because the system is out to get you. Pay your bills and stop buying shiat you can't afford. Watch lots of TV, eat badly and die young (and quickly, before you burden the healthcare system with your protracted death - much like you did society with your miserable pathetic life).

Jeffrey.Rodriguez: Seems pretty straight forward to me: charge the management of the dealership with fraud, court orders the lien discharged and credit cleared.

Oh wait, probably not.

Would work if it was dealer financing. However, the lien was probably from a 3rd party who didn't know of the dealers shenanigans (similar to you trying to sell a house with a mortgage w/o telling the bank). The court would not want to penalize the 3rd party.

This is similar to an issue which arises with stopping payment on checks; in many cases you can legally stop a payment on a check to a deadbeat contractor, for example, since he didn't fulfill his end of the contract. If he tries to cash it at a bank, it would return NSF and get him in deep with the bank. If he later cashes it at a check cashing place, though, and there were no indications of forgery or that he was not the payee of the check, the check cashing place can come after you for payment since they accepted the check in good faith. Your only recourse would be to pay the check cashing place and try to recover from the contractor. (Disclaimer IANAL yada yada)

That is why these people are trying to recover from the dealers, which obviously causes problems if the dealers are bankrupt.

Benevolent Misanthrope: Oh for Fark's sake. People are farking stupid. I don;t know if it's common practice, but it would never occur to me to trade in a car I didn't own outright. I mean, I suppose it could happen that you have a new business and need to trade in the sedan for a pickup, but... come on. Thats probably a very small portion of the people who do this. Why would you trade in a car you still owed on? Why not just lease?

as an auto industry veteran(in F&I), i know its a pretty common practice. and the value in cars varies widely depending on use.

i have a saturn sl2 thats been paid off for a decade but only has 20k, i also had a pontiac vibe(which has a high resale) that was 3 years old with 2 more years on the loan. when i went to turn in i turned in the vehicle i owned on because a) i didnt own it outright when i owned another vehicle and b) with 3 years and 25k miles the dealer gave me more for it after lien payoff than i would have gotten total for my saturn. also turned it in for a 0% interest deal over the life of the loan. sounds like a no brainer to me

bunner: The sooner we all start doing business with people who are in the business of selling whatever goods or service it says on the sign, and not the debt business, the better off things will be.
Stop paying banks to use your own money and stop doing business with people who have their noses up ass of banks.
Their prices will adjust accordingly.

Thread over in one post.
Why do people finance consumer goods like cars? You can afford a perfectly good car for cash if you just save for a few months, if you can't, maybe you shouldn't be financing anything at all!

/Yes, I do have smug about being 100% debt free.
//Yes, the smug is paid for.
///I got a cash discount on this smug too!

urger: I don't own a car you insensitive clod!

/Mass transit and bicycles get me everywhere I want to go.


Then you're in the wrong thread.

My god she cost me $200 and made me a man by all standards.



But i traded my kz900....hmmm

urger: I don't own a car you insensitive clod!

/Mass transit and bicycles get me everywhere I want to go.

According to your profile you live in NYC. Not a big deal for you to not need a car. No offense.

So wait a second, if you trade in a car you still owe money on, you still have to pay it off? Isn't that just common sense, not being able to trade something in you don't own.
On the flipside there was a scumbag car company called Dan Nelson here in SD that sold POS cars to people who couldn't afford better and saved money by not transferring the titles when you did a trade-in. Eventually everyone who bought one got to keep the vehicle regardless of how many payments were left.

I know how we can solve this: Just buy the cars outright! That's an awesome idea!

Oh wait, I haven't made enough money in the last two years to buy a new car (not talking Oldsmobile here, I'm talking Saturn).

/13k last year
//With a degree in IT (probably the problem)
///Salesmen suck, YES THAT MEANS YOU!

How is this not theft by the dealer? You trade a car in with a lien and you sign paperwork that the lien will be paid. He doesn't. That is like writing a felonious hot check, not an oops, my bad.

I thought libtard california was all for the consumer. Sounds to me like they are all for the debt company - hey you can go after anyone, even the manufacturer!

this is the dumbest thing i have ever read. Easily solved, too.

Recessions seem to have the side effect of exposing all the things about an economy that are broken.

Theres been dealerships around here that advertised to pay off whatever you owed on your trade in. I never wanted to trust that. I'm happy to not have a car payment, altho it seems my car knows when I get paid and has a bit of a crush on the mechanic at teh moment.

ajgeek: Oh wait, I haven't made enough money in the last two years to buy a new car (not talking Oldsmobile here, I'm talking Saturn).

So buy used, you'll get over the entitlement issues sooner or later.
Nothing says you deserve a new car except being able to buy a new car with no disruption to your finances.
Hell, my emergency fund could replace both MrsBFD's car and mine and still be at ~60% ... not with brand-new, mind you ... but with decent lease trade-ins or private sellers of 2-3 year old cars.

I don't understand this - I trade in cars with money still owed, but I finance the new car at the same bank as the one I'm trading in. That way the car dealer doesn't get paid until the old car is paid off. Simple.

If you let a car go back and you owe more against it than it brings at sale, you are on the hook for the balance.

That's the law.

If you buy a car and they come back for more money later on, and it isn't in the contract, they are the ones in the wrong.

Any rookie lawyer could make hash of them.

Article is flawed.

Nowhereman: So wait a second, if you trade in a car you still owe money on, you still have to pay it off? Isn't that just common sense, not being able to trade something in you don't own.

I think the scam is that the new dealer finances your negative equity and never sends the payoff to the old loan holder.
So you get to pay for your new car, the old car (in the same loan as the new car) and the old car again when the old lien holder starts to wonder where your payments are.

This is a prime reason to never finance a car ... why should we do business with an industry that is focused on keeping us in debt?

olddinosaur: If you let a car go back and you owe more against it than it brings at sale, you are on the hook for the balance.

That's the law.

If you buy a car and they come back for more money later on, and it isn't in the contract, they are the ones in the wrong.

Any rookie lawyer could make hash of them.

Article is flawed.

And if you buy a car, then give it to someone with the assumption they will sell it to cover the debt, then go buy another car too... you're on the hook for both until the debt is settled. Any rookie lawyer could tell you that... it's still your car, the trade-in deal doesn't necessarily mean the dealer assumes ownership, just that they agree to sell it for you.

bunner: The sooner we all start doing business with people who are in the business of selling whatever goods or service it says on the sign, and not the debt business, the better off things will be.

A-freaking-men.

Nowhereman: So wait a second, if you trade in a car you still owe money on, you still have to pay it off? Isn't that just common sense, not being able to trade something in you don't own.
On the flipside there was a scumbag car company called Dan Nelson here in SD that sold POS cars to people who couldn't afford better and saved money by not transferring the titles when you did a trade-in. Eventually everyone who bought one got to keep the vehicle regardless of how many payments were left.


No one was expecting not having to owe on their loans. If the dealer promises to pay off the loans, it sounds like they're buying your loan from you. Obviously it isn't free, as it deducts from the trade in value, but it sounds fair, right? On the other side, as in the article, people who bought cars ended up owning on the previous owner's loans because of it. So even if you have no sympathy for the people who were tricked into giving up their cars without proper compensation, at least have sympathy for the people who bought used cars and ended up owing on someone else's new car loan.

This story was better last December;

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