Insane.

How can people be for this?

jonasborg: How can people be for this?

Greed, the Liberal version.

Yes, because what every American household needs is a new macbook air, a nintendo wii and an iphone. Not infrastructure development, not healthcare, not financial reform, and certainly not jobs.

GaryPDX: jonasborg: How can people be for this?

Greed, the Liberal version.

Riiiiiight...(p)

Lionel Mandrake: GaryPDX: jonasborg: How can people be for this?

Greed, the Liberal version.

Riiiiiight...(p)

Dude, the Government reaching in your our pockets for trillions dwarfs Exxon/Big Oil a hundred fold. It's the abyss of greed and power. The beauty of it is the tyranny is in the administration. That's the utopia for a few people, public money, not shareholder money that can sue you.

GaryPDX: Dude, the Government reaching in your our pockets for trillions dwarfs Exxon/Big Oil a hundred fold.

except the government is going to turn around and reinvest the money in things that directly benefit us. infrastructure, education, energy research... we are actually getting something out of it.

we don't get a single damned thing out of exxon's profits except for the pleasure of buying their gas, which they wouldn't think of subsidizing with some of that profit margin to make it cheaper.

cheshirecatsmileyface: what every American household needs is a new macbook air, a nintendo wii and an iphone.

I'd sure as hell rather that than see executives using the money to go on junkets to Aruba in a 50 million dollar jet.

burndtdan: except the government is going to turn around and reinvest the money in things that directly benefit us. infrastructure, education, energy research... we are actually getting something out of it.

except that Gary doesn't need infrastructure because he's a rugged individualist with guns and 4wd, education... no way, energy... he produces his own. So really he's getting screwed here by the libs and shouldn't just stand by and take it.

burndtdan: GaryPDX: Dude, the Government reaching in your our pockets for trillions dwarfs Exxon/Big Oil a hundred fold.

except the government is going to turn around and reinvest the money in things that directly benefit us. infrastructure, education, energy research... we are actually getting something out of it.

That trillion-plus still needs to be paid for somehow...which means higher taxes and a SIGNIFICANTLY weaker dollar as they print more $$ to pay for this mess.

GaryPDX: Lionel Mandrake: GaryPDX: jonasborg: How can people be for this?

Greed, the Liberal version.

Riiiiiight...(p)

Dude, the Government reaching in your our pockets for trillions dwarfs Exxon/Big Oil a hundred fold. It's the abyss of greed and power. The beauty of it is the tyranny is in the administration. That's the utopia for a few people, public money, not shareholder money that can sue you.

WTF are you talking about?

My point is that this "blame the libs" shtick is pure BS. Republican Governors (like that socialist libtard Palin) are desperate for the money, and all those principled "conservatives" who voted against the plan will take every fkn red cent they can get for their districts and hold out their hands for more. It was a safe vote: they knew it would pass, so feign principled opposition, then get in line. "We voted against this plan...now GIMME GIMME GIMME!!!"

If you're opposed to it, fine, but people need to drop the "OMG teh Libz are imposing socialism on us!!1!" BS.

I'd show pics of my package, but they aren't exactly SFW.

The stimulus is absolutely sickening, on principle. I don't want to be responsible for passing on even more debt to future generations like has been done to the present generation.

With that being said, I may be wrong, but I continue to get the feeling that the public doesn't quite know how bad this economic downturn really is. It seems like the politicians are hinting that without some kind of stimulus plan, we might as well welcome in the Depression Version 2.0.

If that's the case, I guess we don't really have a choice.

burndtdan: we don't get a single damned thing out of exxon's profits except for the pleasure of buying their gas, which they wouldn't think of subsidizing with some of that profit margin to make it cheaper.

Well, if you really believe that then I guess Capitalism is truly dead in this country.

Before you go apeshiat on me I suppose I should explain, if not for your sake then for those slower people among us.

YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO INVEST IN THE CORPORATIONS AND DRAW PART OF THEIR PROFIT.

How can people be for this?

Free money!

PacersJAM3s: I don't want to be responsible for passing on even more debt to future generations like has been done to the present generation.

That's actually the shame of it, I really do want to watch certain people f*ck over their own kids and then get pissed off about it because they are surprised it happened. Some people deserve to watch their loved ones suffer.

I'm definitely NOT an economist. All I can do is look back at history and look at what got us into this current situation and see what got us out of similar situations in the not so distant past.
While I certainly enjoyed Uncle Sam popping a few extra hundred into my grubby hands last spring I can admit that I did nothing to "stimulate the economy". I paid bills. I didn't buy a Wii nor a new laptop. To do so would have been irresponsible. The "trickle up" concept didn't work.
Looking at what can be done from the top of the pyramid has to be the way. How can the contry invest in itself and have the $$$ trickle down to re-estblish jobs and jump start the economy. How can a country re-establish trust in the banking system when they are demonstrating a lack of responsibility with their own spending?
Why not invest? (Yes aside from that gasp of fear that suffocates the beating heart looking at the falling markets) What about investing in the country by the country? Each citizen is given an amount of money but not to be spent on Wiis and wide screens. An ammount of money to be placed in an interest bearing account for a set amount of time. The investment markets do not own that money but nor do the individuals who cannot have that money until it works for a good decade. There will be available monies for loans and investment. No grubby hands can "fondle the funds" but allow the money to work for itself.

Lionel Mandrake: GaryPDX: Lionel Mandrake: GaryPDX: jonasborg: How can people be for this?

Greed, the Liberal version.

Riiiiiight...(p)

Dude, the Government reaching in your our pockets for trillions dwarfs Exxon/Big Oil a hundred fold. It's the abyss of greed and power. The beauty of it is the tyranny is in the administration. That's the utopia for a few people, public money, not shareholder money that can sue you.

WTF are you talking about?

My point is that this "blame the libs" shtick is pure BS. Republican Governors (like that socialist libtard Palin) are desperate for the money, and all those principled "conservatives" who voted against the plan will take every fkn red cent they can get for their districts and hold out their hands for more. It was a safe vote: they knew it would pass, so feign principled opposition, then get in line. "We voted against this plan...now GIMME GIMME GIMME!!!"

If you're opposed to it, fine, but people need to drop the "OMG teh Libz are imposing socialism on us!!1!" BS.

When I do "Libs Libs Libs!!, that's generally snark..:) It's just a basic angle to the issues. Oregon is a liberal utopia and I can barely breath because of all the BS little regulations, hypocracies and general malaise in this state. Not to mention the only thing they fixate on is race and being gay. It's an old schtick. All the while wanting attach GPS units to our cars for more taxes (riiight) and "administrative" tax increases with one party rule.

I'm justy making the point that if people believe evil corporations are tyrannical, the Federal government dwarfs them in reach and control over people 100 fold.

This is a big giant pork money party from a different angle, that's all.

/not submitter

GaryPDX: I'm justy making the point that if people believe evil corporations are tyrannical, the Federal government dwarfs them in reach and control over people 100 fold.

Ooogah boogah boogah!

Hey guys, remember when Gary used to be funny and not just a "hate duh libs" broken record?

burndtdan: GaryPDX: Dude, the Government reaching in your our pockets for trillions dwarfs Exxon/Big Oil a hundred fold.

except the government is going to turn around and reinvest the money in things that directly benefit us. infrastructure, education, energy research... we are actually getting something out of it.

we don't get a single damned thing out of exxon's profits except for the pleasure of buying their gas, which they wouldn't think of subsidizing with some of that profit margin to make it cheaper.

That's hilarious unless you actually believe it, then it's really really sad.

burndtdan: GaryPDX: Dude, the Government reaching in your our pockets for trillions dwarfs Exxon/Big Oil a hundred fold.

except the government is going to turn around and reinvest the money in things that directly benefit us. infrastructure, education, energy research... we are actually getting something out of it.

If it's an investment, the government should do value capture. It can then use the revenue to fund other investments.

cheshirecatsmileyface: Not infrastructure development, not healthcare, not financial reform, and certainly not jobs.

I can post the bill (again) and maybe you can find where all of the infrastructure, healthcare, financial reform and jobs come into play. No one else can seem to do it.

I, for one, am very glad that members of Congress voted each others a $93,000 raise in petty cash, if there's anything this country needs in the midst of an economic crisis, well it's definitely more of this.

dj_bigbird: That trillion-plus still needs to be paid for somehow...which means higher taxes

do you honestly think we're not going to see higher taxes regardless of what obama does? his wonderfully fiscally conservative predecessors put us $10 trillion in the hole. no matter what happens, your taxes are going to go up in the next decade or so.

so really, that's such an incredibly dishonest argument against the stimulus coming from republicans that it's laughable.

and a lot of that money needs to be spent, whether you like it or not. our infrastructure is crumbling. a common winter storm just took out power for a month for a large section of the country. at this point, it's time that some people grow up and realize that a first-world society requires constant investment, and they have to pay their fair share.

if you don't like it, move out of the first-world.

Dancin_In_Anson: I can post the bill (again) and maybe you can find where all of the infrastructure, healthcare, financial reform and jobs come into play. No one else can seem to do it.

O RLY?

$209,000,000, for work on deferred maintenance at Agricultural Research Service facilities

$50,000,000, for necessary expenses to carry out rehabilitation of structural measures

$300,000,000, for a competitive construction grant program for research science buildings

for necessary expenses for restoration and mitigation of National Aeronautics and Space Administration owned infrastructure and facilities related to the consequences of hurricanes, floods, and other natural disasters occurring during 2008 for which the President declared a major disaster under title IV of the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act of 1974, $50,000,000.

For an additional amount for `Major Research Equipment and Facilities Construction', $400,000,000, which shall be available only for approved projects.

For expenses, not otherwise provided for, to improve, repair and modernize Department of Defense facilities, restore and modernize Army barracks, and invest in the energy efficiency of Department of Defense facilities, $4,500,000,000


...shall I continue?

I'm not saying there's no pork in the bill, but to say that it's all waste and no actual construction projects that don't require labor is just complete bullshiat.

No, it doesn't mean higher taxes. They'll do the same thing they did to pull momey out of their asses for the corporate handout of $850 billion. They issue securities, government bonds. People who think spending and taxing are inextricably linked are farking stupid. Buy T-bills or savings bonds? That's where the money comes from. Quit farking whining. If Bush hadn't farked us for the last 8 years then we wouldn't be in this situation.


\\It's unpatriotic to question the President in a time of war you know.

Obdicut: Hey guys, remember when Gary used to be funny and not just a "hate duh libs" broken record?

No.

This thread, it smells like...*sniffs*...desperation. And WHARRGARBL.

GAT_00: This thread, it smells like...*sniffs*...desperation. And WHARRGARBL.

I can't afford a smellevision. :(

cretinbob: If Bush hadn't farked us for the last 8 years then we wouldn't be in this situation.

I'm not one to defend Bush often, but most of the legislations that created the current crisis was signed by the Clinton Administration, not Bush. The Iraq War didn't help the economy, that's true, but the situation were in is not something that can be directly attributed to him, unlike many other things.

Tatsuma: were

bloody apostrophe.

Lundah: I'm not saying there's no pork in the bill

There's way too much of that, actually. That money would be better spent on other projects that would actually help the economy or, better yet, not spent at all.

Gary and DIA, you all sat by whilst Bush and his criminal buddies looted the country.

The LEAST you could do is pretend to be honest and STFU now.

No government plan is perfect, but would you prefer fake wars and gobs of money to Halliburton? The rational conclusion to your snarks is that you would.

But by all means stay concerned, its what makes America great.

dj_bigbird: That trillion-plus still needs to be paid for somehow...which means higher taxes and a SIGNIFICANTLY weaker dollar as they print more $$ to pay for this mess.

WRONG!!!!!
we havent paid for the last 28 years of government spending, why should we pay for this spending??

you can disagree on what the government spends money on, but to complain that we are going into debt is somehow diff than when chimpy did it, is dishonest

I also reallly like how the iraq war is patriotic red white and blue and the bailout is redish

plus, you lying sack of shiat, where the fark is the bush bailout?
where is its breakouts?

ahhhhh redistrubuting wealth
when the GOP does it, you can just ignore it
when the DEMS do it, PANIC!!!!

cheshirecatsmileyface: Yes, because what every American household needs is a new macbook air, a nintendo wii and an iphone. Not infrastructure development, not healthcare, not financial reform, and certainly not jobs.

Very little of the stimulus is going to infrastructure, and we can rest assured that it will be spent with a view to getting reelected (Bridge to Nowhere projects) instead of with a view to actually giving us the infrastructure we need.

Speaking of Bridges to Nowhere, I have to say that I really feel sorry for Ted Stevens. If only he'd waited a few years before submitting his $398 million "Bridge to Nowhere" proposal, he would be seen as a hero who was creating jobs and modernizing our infrastructure, instead of an idiot who would rape the taxpayer with useless pork.

PacersJAM3s: If that's the case, I guess we don't really have a choice.

we always have choices
1) you can don nothing and hope it gets better on its own
2) you can do what the GOP has done for the last year and hope it gets better
3) you can do what president obama is doing and hope it gets better

one of the nice things that we get out of what obama is doing, is that SOME infrastructure will get repaired and rebuilt
that will last over time, and we have needed it for a LONG time

letter to the GOP: you are right this is socialism
please, send it all back to the treasury to pay down the debt
that would be honest of you
question to the whiners: did you cash your bush tax stimulus checks or did you send them back to the treasury?

cretinbob: \\It's unpatriotic to question the President in a time of war you know.

this!

/time to kick the disloyal, unpatriotic, scumbags out ... oh wait ... we did

jonasborg: How can people be for this?

Because Bush gave wall street a lot of free money. Now Obama wants to give 'the little people' some free money as well.

Personally, I'd like to make it illegal for the federal government to bail out ANYONE but nobody will listen to reason anymore.

dj_bigbird: a SIGNIFICANTLY weaker dollar as they print more $$ to pay for this mess.

Deflation is a huge concern right now. Printing boatloads of money is exactly what the Fed is about to push for.

The "charts" aren't charts and they're boring.

Where were the size of spending comparisons when the Masters of the Universe came with their begging bowls pleading for $800 billion?

What we spend and how we spend it does need analysis (I would have preferred, and expected, to see a chart breaking down what parts of the stimulus were going to what) but the massive outrage over spending on national monuments and parks - a theme Republicans on news shows keep coming back to as examples of bad things in the bill - rings false when there wasn't a peep over literally HANDING the same amount of money over to Wall Street.

Can we have accountability and watchdog reporting on all gigantic bills please?

fosborb: Deflation is a huge concern right now. Printing boatloads of money is exactly what the Fed is about to push for.

wow
you are right
forgot about deflation
but but but

/december unemp numbers will be out in ~7 days - get ready to REALLY PANIC

bush, clinton, obama.....doesnt matter. quit your biatching about individuals. our problems go back to 1913 and the federal reserve. Get rid of it. back up the dollar with gold. Lower or eliminate individual income taxes. Institute a SMALL national sales tax. Leave corporate taxes in place but give breaks to companies that hire within the country to the point where most will. And finally, free trade with everybody OR nobody. If the latter, identify where other countries are directly hurting american workers and apply tarriffs to those imports.

Our tax dollars are obviously much better spent rewarding the crooks (wall street) with HUGE bonuses for jobs well done.

/not just retarded .... Ameritarded!

So, there's enough money to buy all these things.

THAT'S THE POINT.

Except there will be value added. The money goes to people working to build things. Then the people spend the money. Money starts flowing, consumer confidence rises, and... THAT'S THE POINT.

dj_bigbird:
That trillion-plus still needs to be paid for somehow...which means higher taxes and a SIGNIFICANTLY weaker dollar as they print more $$ to pay for this mess.

But the increase in the infrastructure and other spending will multiply throughout the economy, people will start investing and saving and paying more taxes. They spending pays for itself.

RobertBruce: bush, clinton, obama.....doesnt matter. quit your biatching about individuals. our problems go back to 1913 and the federal reserve. Get rid of it. back up the dollar with gold. Lower or eliminate individual income taxes. Institute a SMALL national sales tax. Leave corporate taxes in place but give breaks to companies that hire within the country to the point where most will. And finally, free trade with everybody OR nobody. If the latter, identify where other countries are directly hurting american workers and apply tarriffs to those imports.

Gold is a worthless metal that has only as much value as we place on it, much like the dollar. Sorry, but the gold standard is no different from now. In true collapse gold would be worthless while usable metal like steel would be priceless.

Your Ron Paul crap is never going to take. Sorry.

My first thought was that we're spending too much on Stealth Bombers. Jesus, those things are expensive. Also, we only have 16 of them?

Conservative of environmental resources? No.
Conservative spending? No.
Conservative executive authority? No.
Conservative foreign policy? No.
Conservative of interference in the individual life? No.

Why do they call it conservatism?

RobertBruce: ur problems go back to 1913

Yes that's what we need to do- go back to 1913.

Where's the chart that shows us the corresponding loss in GDP if we do nothing to stop the dive?