So?....Move to a nicer locale, already....

The lion's share of responsibility IS on the parents to provide an acceptable childhood to the human babies that are brought into this world.

I wish the best for all Moms and Dads and their children. The children ARE the future, and all of that good stuff....

According to one study (new window) we need exposure to dirt. Hey, it worked for me...

Duh!

Let Darwin do his job.

I find I'm constantly at war with my wife on this issue - she wants to protect our kid from the sun setting at night, and I want him to learn about disappointment and skinned knees.

lantawa: So?....Move to a nicer locale, already....
The lion's share of responsibility IS on the parents to provide an acceptable childhood to the human babies that are brought into this world.
I wish the best for all Moms and Dads and their children. The children ARE the future, and all of that good stuff....

FTA: • Depression and anxiety have increased for boys and girls aged 15 to 16 since the mid-1980s, as have what are called "non-aggressive conduct problems" such as lying, stealing and disobedience
• One in five children and young people have mental health problems at some point, and one in 10 have a clinically recognisable mental health disorder
• Up to one in 12 children deliberately hurt themselves on a regular basis - the highest rate in Europe
• Children have lost the freedom to play outside because of their parents' fears.
Adults, said Gill, no longer ask themselves whether children can cope before stepping in and taking control.


Aside from that 3rd one, which I'd blame entirely on the kids being emo biatches, there comes a point where the parents have to tell the kids to grow a pair and deal with it.

It is hard to say whether or not kids are more pansy-like today than 30 years ago (perspective and such)... but what I do know is, is that when I was in school, we didn't have kids popping anti-depressants like they were pez, kids being told to stay indoors because they might hurt themselves and we sure as hell didn't have kids farking stabbing each other for no reason (if they did fight, it was for a reason... often a stupid one, but the kids just wrestled around for a bit, maybe got a bloody nose, then called it a day.)

It is even harder to say what is the cause of this. Could be too much parenting, could be the awful fact of living in a dreaded 'post 9/11' world (gasp!), but one thing is for damn sure: if this keeps up, these farked up kids are going to have even more farked up kids, to the point where when these ultra-farked up kids are running the countries, they will be easily overthrown. Just like France.

The inverse is equally as damaging. If the parents don't give a flying fark about their young'uns, well... How often do we read stories about kids doing some stupid shiat and ending up a fark headline?

I think parenting is like playing god. To quote Futurama (tongue in cheek, of course), "If you've done things right, people won't be sure if you've done anything at all." A simple balance of letting the kids think and act for themselves using the rules, habits and ethics instilled by their parents is key. So yes... while parents do play an important role, too much or too little can be harmful.

Just like alcohol.

Ragtime:
Besides Futurama is for pansies. Just like you.

DIAF troll. Futurama rules.

Ragtime: Next time make sense when you want to post something..

Coming from a person who's account is what... two days old? Yeah. I'll be sure to take your advice.

Intelligent_Man: nugatory

You've used that word twice in the last two days. If you're really trying to impress people, try to find some new ones rather than picking out one or two and then using them over and over again.

However you want to raise your kids is fine, just be aware that, sometime between the ages of 10 and 20, that kid needs to have learned 2 things:

how to make his or her own decisions,

and how to deal with the consequences.

Nobody expects this of kids anymore, and I think it's a much bigger problem than little Johnny not knowing how to eat dirt.

Intelligent_Man: Hmm, to compare parenting to a cartoon show is completely nugatory. I don't really understand what you're saying here. And it's my job to understand what people are saying.

As I said (which you've obviously missed), "tongue in cheek".

You have to instill the habits and such that I listed in my boobies, but you can't keep the kid on a short chain and clean up after his every mess. You have to allow the kid to make mistakes, take responsibility for his/her actions and such. If the kid grows up with his parents fixing every problem the kid comes by, it will never learn to stand on it's own. It's alright for the kid to learn to be hurt and how to deal with the pain (now, I'm not saying tell the kid at the age of 5 that you killed santa and skinned the easter bunny), but you have to stop breastfeeding the kid sometime.

/unlike that one mother, who continues to breastfeed her kids waaaaaay late, to the point where (iirc) they were 5 or 8 years old

Ragtime: Sadly just because I switch names to get a nice one, doesn't mean I had a previous one..

No one cares about your ALT.

Joce678: Duh!

This.

Let them the fark outside. If you're gonna lock your kids in the house where they can watch Hannah Montana on TiVo all fricking day, at least don't wail about your bills while they're in earshot. Kids need to be able to stand up for themselves a little before you can go crying anywhere near their shoulder.

My mom went through Silicon Valley layoff roulette and a heinous divorce while I was out in the park playing bike tag and touch football. I never ended up in the hospital or juvie and she never failed to feed my sister and I.

And kids in my day had no clue about the real world and we liked it that way! Immaturity ruled! Kids are all about growing up ASAP now, and of course they don't understand all the tragedies of the world. Poor kids. Where's Beavis And Butt-Head when you need 'em??

Also: Stop buying them expensive stuff all their lives.

HMS_Blinkin: Intelligent_Man: nugatory

You've used that word twice in the last two days. If you're really trying to impress people, try to find some new ones rather than picking out one or two and then using them over and over again.

He should be the poster child for that word.

PattyMcG;

I don't have any trouble with accellerating maturity - kids learn by immitating adults, and one of the biggest problems with them these days is they get shunted aside and *prevented* from aping adults.

Play's fine - but sticking with mom and dad to learn how to be an adult is how we're wired to learn. Ignoring that and sticking kids in a box with dull scissors and construction paper may be the most practical solution, but I'm not sure it's the best solution.

also if the kids are prevented from running, jumping, climbing trees... how are they going to put on makeup while they're up there.

squeez cheez: According to one study (new window) we need exposure to dirt. Hey, it worked for me...

I love that study. My kids will live forever.

I agree, helicopter parenting sets the stage for kids who don't know how to deal with life.

It sends a few messages:

1. Overprotectiveness teaches kids that any negative consequence is to be strictly avoided, even feared, to the point of never taking a risk. What kid wouldn't be fearful if they didn't discover that, most of the time, they will survive negative consequences and - hey - actually learn from their mistakes!

2. That any negative thing is someone else's fault and should be quickly pushed off on someone else, instead of accepting responsibility for immature stupidity and viewing it as a learning experience.

3. That they are entitled to an easy time in life, and that it should come without strings.


A kid afraid to take any risks will never experience life. Imagine being afraid to learn to ride a bike, because (gasp) you might fall and hurt yourself! So you never experience the joy and freedom of having a little independence at a younger age, of seeing things from a different point of view, and of feeling a sense of accomplishment for tackling a tough (and risky) activity and prevailing. It practically dictates that these kids will grow up as fearful and afraid.

And has already been mentioned, since they're not outside being risky, they're inside hearing all the woes of their parents.

Also, the parents have got to grow a set themselves. Kids are not your emotional dumping ground! Deal with your own shiat and leave your kids out of it except what is *ABSOLUTELY* going to directly impact their lives. Being a parent means you don't have to tell little Johnny that your boss smacked you at work or that your paycheck isn't going to cover the bills. Little Johnny only needs to know that maybe you have to move, or that you'll be taking a spontaneous camping trip so he doesn't have to know you couldn't afford to pay your electric bill. Kids have neither the maturity nor the working knowledge of adult life to be able to process this kind of info. And we all know that ignorance breeds fear. Thus, fearful children.

It's like someone sat down and made a list of all the ways you could deliberately force your child to cling to your housecoat in fear for its entire life.

What the hell ever happened to encouraging independence, exploration of your environment, and learning to survive in the world in your own way?

Of course, a fair number of parents are neglectful too, I know. It's no better, but at least it produces kids that have learned to develop a thicker skin and can deal with adverse conditions.

I think every kid ought to eat dirt (lol), scrape a knee or two, burn themselves, cut themselves, break up with a loved girlfriend or best friend, and lose a pet before they reach the age of 10.

It all comes down to this: True wisdom comes only through pain.

You never really internalize the reality of life until it bites you in the ass.

/rant over

Ironically, while children are stressed out about their performance, Britain is used in management as an example for what happens when performance apathy fills the workplace.

This is a more complex issue than mere "helicopter parenting".

Ragtime:
I'm truly sorry for taking kids on rides. I had no idea it would stifle you so deeply. I really feel like dispicable. I know you've always wanted kids not to get hurt, and if you could find it in your heart to forgive me, I'll do anything I can to help you realize your dream.

huh?

Yes, but is it better than climbing knees and skinning bullies behind schoolyard trees?

I find it bizarre how many things have changed since I was a kid. I'm a child of the 70's. My parents would push us outside in the morning, and we'd disappear until dinner time. Run around the streets, ride our bikes into town. People weren't constantly harassing us to put helmets and kneepads on. I was walking myself to school and home again in 1st grade. We could take homemade cookies in to school for a treat without having a manufacturer label on it. If I got into a fight with another kid, I got my ass swatted and spent a couple days in detention, without any police intervention. If I was acting up at the store my dad could swat my ass without having the police called. We didn't have Disney channel. In fact, the only cartoons we got to see were Saturday mornings. It was a treat, not a daily conditioning, and certainly not a babysitter.

The helicopters are merely the people who have taken our society's new way of thinking to the extreme--but I posit that because all children now are being constantly barraged with safety warnings, adult anxiety and fears, having freedoms curtailed, in the name of health, safety, and Progress, that they are all being done a disservice. Being sheltered and made afraid, yet being expected to grow up faster, be smarter, more responsible--and yet not being adequately exposed to the realities of the world they live in. There has to be a balance somewhere, and I'm afraid we've collectively tipped the scales too far already. And it's not just general policy--often it's codified. Criminal law, family court law, rules and regulations mounting up every day not only telling us how to treat our own children, but laws that criminalize failure to avert risk for ourselves, for instance seatbelt and helmet laws, among others.

The main problem as I see it is there is just to much for a kid to do today other than play outside. I can remember making my kids go outside only to have them hang off the screen door till I let them back in. I know it's not as safe as it used to be for kids and you have to protect them from the big bad wolf but TV and video games ain't getting it done. Both parents working, single parenting, a whole generation of latch key kids.

I have a friend with a child, 5yrs old mind you, who is in constant fear of being homeless. Both parents are there, the dad makes a good living but that's all the kid thinks about. Christ I grew up in the good ole "duck and cover" days. You know back when they thought that ducking under your desk would save you in a nuclear attack. We did our bomb drills then went outside and killed each other playing dodge ball. Oh well.

For years the schools whined that the reason schools were having problems was because parents were not involved enough in their kids lives. Now that parents are involved in their kids lives they blame that.
I blame the media or constantly fear mongering to the point if someone doesn't over nanny their kids they are seen as neglectful parents.

basicly, the kids are farked, and it's their parents fault?

this is obvious, if you've been paying attention to the fark headlines

You mean that continual positive reinforcement even when the child is dead wrong will trun him/her into a farking asshole?

ReverendJasen: I find it bizarre how many things have changed since I was a kid. I'm a child of the 70's. My parents would push us outside in the morning, and we'd disappear until dinner time. Run around the streets, ride our bikes into town. People weren't constantly harassing us to put helmets and kneepads on. I was walking myself to school and home again in 1st grade. We could take homemade cookies in to school for a treat without having a manufacturer label on it. If I got into a fight with another kid, I got my ass swatted and spent a couple days in detention, without any police intervention. If I was acting up at the store my dad could swat my ass without having the police called. We didn't have Disney channel. In fact, the only cartoons we got to see were Saturday mornings. It was a treat, not a daily conditioning, and certainly not a babysitter.

The helicopters are merely the people who have taken our society's new way of thinking to the extreme--but I posit that because all children now are being constantly barraged with safety warnings, adult anxiety and fears, having freedoms curtailed, in the name of health, safety, and Progress, that they are all being done a disservice. Being sheltered and made afraid, yet being expected to grow up faster, be smarter, more responsible--and yet not being adequately exposed to the realities of the world they live in. There has to be a balance somewhere, and I'm afraid we've collectively tipped the scales too far already. And it's not just general policy--often it's codified. Criminal law, family court law, rules and regulations mounting up every day not only telling us how to treat our own children, but laws that criminalize failure to avert risk for ourselves, for instance seatbelt and helmet laws, among others.

Great post. On the plus side, it has given us some magnificently fail-tacular YouTube videos of teens with poor impulse control who have not adequately learned the limits of their own bodies and the practical laws of physics.

I'll take minor issue with using mandatory seat belt laws as an example since they have less to do with protecting you from injury than it helps you maintain control of your vehicle, causing more and avoidable damage to others. Most crashes aren't high-speed affairs where seat belts determine life or death. In fact, I'd say the difference between 'nanny' laws and helicopter parents is that helicopter parents really do care about their child's well being whereas the laws are usually in place to cover someone's ass from a potential liability.

Of course the fact that someone has to be held liable for every damned random occurrence in the world is another discussion.

Heya ph0rk...

//happy that you got it...
//off to office (on a Sunday, no less)

mediaho: In fact, I'd say the difference between 'nanny' laws and helicopter parents is that helicopter parents really do care about their child's well being whereas the laws are usually in place to cover someone's ass from a potential liability.

Of course the fact that someone has to be held liable for every damned random occurrence in the world is another discussion.

Totally agree. What used to be termed "sue-happy" has now proceeded directly over the edge into "farking bat-shiat crackers."

I just moved 200 miles away from (what I'm told is) the most litigous county in the state (or maybe the country, can't remember). People ship their lawsuits into that county just because the whiny juries they tend to get are just as eager to "fark the man" and award record-setting judgements. One of the plaintiff's attorneys on the Big Tobacco trials comes from the same county. It's disgusting to be in the vicinity. When I go "back home" for visits, it almost feels like slime grows on me the instant I start getting close. Bleh.

For some reason I read headline as parents who hang their kits outside helicopters....

gregp1369: //oven fresh cookies here for all who want them

I'm just getting back on my no-sugar diet. You vile purveyor of wicked cookie goodness.

/what kind?

vile purveyor? moi?

/peanut butter...FYI
//salmonella be damned, but they are quite tasty!

gregp1369: vile purveyor? moi?

/peanut butter...FYI
//salmonella be damned, but they are quite tasty!

I'd bet a little salmonella once in a while is good for the immune system. See the eat dirt thread. (too lazy to link it, deal with it)

Another idiotic attack on parents who are actually trying to raise their children by someone who didn't even read the article. The article is about how kids are worried about life. You know, like we always were?

Unsung Hero:

Our wives must be related. My wife treats my 5.5 year old like she is 2. We argue about it all the time. In her world, being a helicppter parent (which she of course denies) is being a good parent. Of course, my daughter rebels against it. I have stories that no one would believe about my wife.

Sigh.

gad: Another idiotic attack on parents who are actually trying to raise their children by someone who didn't even read the article. The article is about how kids are worried about life. You know, like we always were?

I hope there's sarcasm here. I wasn't worried about life the way these guys are. I worried about important kid things, like who my bff was and how I hearted the little boy in my language arts class. Not about how I might not have a home to live in or how Mommy and Daddy cheated on each other before I was born.

If you were worried about life, it suggests you are only newly *not* part of the current crop of children.

I heap floccinaucinihilipilification on the use of the word "nugatory."

"One in five children and young people have mental health problems at some point, and one in 10 have a clinically recognisable mental health disorder..."

Excuse me, but it's my understanding that one in four in the general population suffers from mental or emotional problems (take a good hard look at the people around you). One in five actually isn't that bad.

"Disanfraction"? One of those words that should exist (it makes sense in context), but doesn't.

Your son is a tween? Has he hit puberty yet? If not, don't worry about it. If so, get some Farkitrol.

Is this the thread where pasty and overweight farkers talk about how badass they were when they were kids and how wussy the kids of today are?

I had my first all nighter in the 2nd grade. For a science fair presentation. And every other year up to 8th grade.

I had one helicopter, freaking unbearably hovering parent and one kickass parent who was involved when I needed, gave me books and let me explore but taught me to be street smart, and who unfortunately worked long hours so got shouted down by the other parent whenever objections were brought up.

I'm still working to get over the panic-y feeling the former instilled in me at a very. f--king. young. age. And if it weren't for the latter, I think I'd just be a lost cause by now.

And the helicopter-parent (mind you, we didn't have this term when I was growing up - a generic "crazy" sufficed for my friends) wonders why the hell as soon as I could (middle school or so) I didn't share a damn thing, including writing I won an award for (got to go to the award ceremony. I still didn't share it. Guarded the little privacy I got at that point like a f--king hawk).

My friends are having kids now. If I do, it won't be for awhile and I'm adopting. But if I see any of them even start going on that freaking path, I'm buying a babysitter and setting up a intervention before they make their lives miserable for their kid and themselves.

/sigh
//I realize that crap was done out of a genuine concern for my well being and to make sure I was fully utilizing my intelligence and potential. That just makes it all more frightening.

Credy: Is this the thread where pasty and overweight farkers talk about how badass they were when they were kids and how wussy the kids of today are?

I was never been badass.

/Still pasty.
// Mmmm, pasty...

There was a bully that gave every other kid a turn at getting roughed up during my kids Freshman year in HS. When my Sons turn came-up, is it bad that I had my Sons older cousin (HS senior) anonymously beat the crap out of the kid amd warn him "you'll have to guess which kid you made the mistake of F'ng with".

I don't feel the least bit bad about it.

Is helicopter parenting the kind of parenting that causes kids to be loud and obnoxious in public well past the age they should know better? Is it the cause of the 10 year old who calls his mom a biatch in the mall for not buying him a video game?

I hate those parents. I really mean that from the bottom of the black pit where my soul once was. I hate them, their children, and anyone who associates themselves with either.

http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=4180056


put this into your address bar because this thread happened already.

Intelligent Man:

What can we do? We can't leave or kids. I just try to compensate I guess. I want my daughter to be fearless. So far, so good.

I blame all of those parenting magazines. 50 pages of ads and articles about all of the things that can injure/main/kill/annoy kids. My wife believes all of that crap.

OhioDann: I want my daughter to be fearless.

A healthy fear shouldn't be eradicated entirely, but I get your point. *Healthy* fear is most often developed as a consequence to poor judgment... and is the building block to good judgment.

phoenixreborn: If you were worried about life, it suggests you are only newly *not* part of the current crop of children.

Judging by your picture I'm several years older than you. Yours isn't a generational difference, it's a difference of luck and economic class. I worried about things like money, whether we could afford rent (thought I was mostly worried about moving), my parents health, etc. from age 8 on. It sounds like you just had a relatively easy middle class life with no significant disruptions. Parents that face real issues can't just hide them from their kids because real issues cause an impact to the whole family.

EdNortonsTwin: There was a bully that gave every other kid a turn at getting roughed up during my kids Freshman year in HS. When my Sons turn came-up, is it bad that I had my Sons older cousin (HS senior) anonymously beat the crap out of the kid amd warn him "you'll have to guess which kid you made the mistake of F'ng with".

I don't feel the least bit bad about it.

not sure if it's bad but i had a good laugh and i took notes for later in life.