They are a bunch of Commies.

furiousxgeorge: They are a bunch of Commies.


Reality has a liberal bias.

Because State Government, Republican and Democratic alike, have no idea how to plan for any future reduction in tax receipts. In their minds, they ALWAYS go up. We can blame taxpayers for wanting surpluses back, as well. A well run surplus program is the best insurance plan a state can have. It's money you can draw down without having to issue bonds, a costly way to raise money.

State salaries and pension funds are also unrealistic. You can blame just about everyone for this, but people have to rally to their own team, it seems.

This country fails finance on every level. Just about every state involved blew that $100 billion tobacco settlement in record time.

This crisis is either a good thing that will force us to learn how to best spend money on state government programs in a cost effective way, or they will continue to bloat and learn nothing from this.

An example: Spending money to streamline the DMV and staffing it with competent employees, who can be fired for performance issues, and updating computer hardware and software. Reduce waiting times and saving money in backlogs and overtime.

That would require a compromise from Republicans to increase the spending for future savings at the agency, and in lost time at work standing in line. Also, from Democrats on having total employee protection, but in a way that allows unproductive employees to be fired regardless of seniority.

Good luck with all that. I'll be in my bunker while you all kill each other playing ideological football.

NewportBarGuy: $100 billion tobacco

I actually can't find the total figure for that, but it was a lot of money that was wasted.

NewportBarGuy: Because State Government, Republican and Democratic alike, have no idea how to plan for any future reduction in tax receipts.

well, in the governors' defense, most states have stringent budget rules that generally tie their hands.

Most Republican governors have broken with their GOP colleagues in Congress and are pushing for passage of President Barack Obama's economic aid plan that would send billions to states for education, public works and health care.

I have a radical idea - instead of collecting lots of money and then allowing the federal government to dole out bits of it here and there (in return for being a good little lapdog state), how about we stop feeding the beast?

burndtdan: NewportBarGuy: Because State Government, Republican and Democratic alike, have no idea how to plan for any future reduction in tax receipts.

well, in the governors' defense, most states have stringent budget rules that generally tie their hands.

In my state, Ed Rendell (our glorious leader) spent our entire 'rainy day' fund on...well, nobody is really sure WHAT he did with the money, but a lot of his buddies in philadelphia are driving very nice cars these days. He tried to raise taxes last year and send MORE money to philly, but the state legislature said no. Ed shut down the state government....and his own people told him to knock it the fark off and revise the budget.

Not surprising news really. People who actually deal with things can be a bit less tied to ideology than those who don't have to deal with it directly.

Weaver95: how about we stop feeding the beast?

That was Reagan's plan. How'd that work out?

WhyteRaven74: Not surprising news really. People who actually deal with things can be a bit less tied to ideology than those who don't have to deal with it directly.

well...maybe in other places. Ed Rendell still thinks he's the Mayor of Philadelphia. He got to Harrisburg and found out he couldn't just have the Congressional Republicans flogged for being impertinent. He actually had to listen to them. And they could DISAGREE with him! Like...IN PUBLIC disagree with him!

Well duh, the states are basically whores to the feds. It's why every state has 55 mph speed limits. Don't want the people to drive slowly? Fine. No more highway funding. The feds just love being in charge of things they have no business of being in.

/strict Constitutionalist

sarcastrophe: Weaver95: how about we stop feeding the beast?

That was Reagan's plan. How'd that work out?

I wish that really HAD been his plan....but Congress keep raising taxes, stealing money and spending like there was no tomorrow.

My state has a surplus and a Republican Governor.

/Watches Minnesota like a sitcom.

subject verb agreement

Weaver95: how about we stop feeding the beast

FDIC will crumble, 25% unemployment, starvation, riots, wars.

We lost a few people the last Depression. We shouldn't go down that route again.

I am being overly dramatic, but seriously, NO ONE has any idea on how to fix this. Not Bush, not Obama, not Republicans, not Democrats, not Libertarians, not Greens, not actual Socialists or Communists either.

The only lever: spend the crap out of things. Huge deficits, no fiscal responsibility, no nothing. The time to stop this was 2 years ago. No one gave a crap. Disgusting.

Gahhh, we are so farked its sickening.

Believe me, I fully agree on principle, but I can't see any viable outcome with any path we take. They all suck.

Weaver95: I wish that really HAD been his plan....but Congress keep raising taxes, stealing money and spending like there was no tomorrow.

Right, that damn Democrat Congress. The ones that had held the majority since the 60's.

And taxes were CUT during the Reagan years, not increased. If only he could have vetoed those spending bills....oh, wait.

PC LOAD LETTER: FDIC will crumble, 25% unemployment, starvation, riots, wars.

At this point, all of the above are inevitable.

Weaver95: In my state, Ed Rendell (our glorious leader) spent our entire 'rainy day' fund on...well, nobody is really sure WHAT he did with the money, but a lot of his buddies in philadelphia are driving very nice cars these days. He tried to raise taxes last year and send MORE money to philly, but the state legislature said no. Ed shut down the state government....and his own people told him to knock it the fark off and revise the budget.

Here in Ohio, our governor Ted Strickland drained the state's entire rainy day fund. Even with the $1.02 billion that was in the rainy day fund and the $3.4 billion Ohio is expected to get if the stimulus bill passes, it still won't cover the $7.3 billion 2-year budget shortfall.

So instead of raising income taxes which he said he does not want to do, he's willing to raise fees, fines and penalties which is are regressive forms of taxation.

Ohio is totally screwed at this point. The state is broke and the people here don't have jobs.

It's greed. Once the government starts throwing around money like there's no tomorrow, people will grab for it.

sarcastrophe: That was Reagan's plan. How'd that work out?

Bad, because Reagan kept spending.

What Weaver is suggesting is that we stop the funding of federal programs that exist only to give money back to the states after collecting it.

Does it really make any sense to have entire agencies dedicated to taking money from the taxpayers in the form of federal taxes and then give that money back to the states to spend on the taxpayers? It's nothing but an additional layer of bureaucracy that just skims some off the top and offers no real necessary service for the money it consumes.

SchlingFocker: Does it really make any sense to have entire agencies dedicated to taking money from the taxpayers in the form of federal taxes and then give that money back to the states to spend on the taxpayers? It's nothing but an additional layer of bureaucracy that just skims some off the top and offers no real necessary service for the money it consumes.

Careful you rebel pond scum, Zombie Lincoln will kick your butt. That's seditious rebel talk right there.

SchlingFocker: Does it really make any sense to have entire agencies dedicated to taking money from the taxpayers in the form of federal taxes and then give that money back to the states to spend on the taxpayers?

...and thus redistributing wealth...


...from Blue States to Red States.

Wait, that's the 2000 electoral college map; the tax shift is this one.


Sorry about that.

Weaver95: In my state, Ed Rendell (our glorious leader) spent our entire 'rainy day' fund on...well, nobody is really sure WHAT he did with the money, but a lot of his buddies in philadelphia are driving very nice cars these days. He tried to raise taxes last year and send MORE money to philly, but the state legislature said no. Ed shut down the state government....and his own people told him to knock it the fark off and revise the budget.

ed rendell has always rubbed me the wrong way when i've seen him on tv. seems like a complete opportunist.

let me put it this way. you know that i'm generally more inclined to like a democrat over a republican, but i prefer charlie crist to what little i know of ed rendell about a million times over.

lunchinlewis: subject verb agreement

this was blatant headline preview malpractice. i usually edit the preview to make the headline more inflammatory. when i changed it from congress to counterparts in congress, i didnt change 'talks'. we are all duly impressed with your grammaticamal superiority.

Weaver95: Ed Rendell still thinks he's the Mayor of Philadelphia

Well isn't Rendell pretty much the definition of complete farking moran?

PC LOAD LETTER: Gahhh, we are so farked its sickening.

We're only farked if we give up or give in.

I'm sure they're just as eager as all the other targets of the magic money cannon. That Republicans only care about limited government and fiscal conservatism when they're out of power is nothing new- Bush was the biggest government President since at least Johnson. That Republicans actually stand for free markets, small gov't, and restrained spending is a lie eagerly perpetuated by both parties, because it allows the Republicans a facade for their statism and the Democrats a boogey-man for theirs.

abb3w: SchlingFocker: Does it really make any sense to have entire agencies dedicated to taking money from the taxpayers in the form of federal taxes and then give that money back to the states to spend on the taxpayers?

...and thus redistributing wealth...

...from Blue States to Red States.

Wait, that's the 2000 electoral college map; the tax shift is this one.

Sorry about that.

That says more about the congress members from the pillaged states than the states themselves.

Crosshair: My state has a surplus and a Republican Governor.

/Watches Minnesota like a sitcom.

My country had a surplus, we were on the way to paying of the debt and we had a Democratic President, in 2000.

Repubs voting against the package should stick to their principles, show what they're made of, and NOT accept any money earmarked for their districts.

I posted this on a different site, but I think it's pertinent here:

I'm a liberal foreigner, so really it's not my tax dollars that are being spent in this plan. Yet I feel entitled to comment on this because when the US economy sneezes, the world catches a cold. In fact the US is waking up somewhere in a ditch from a generation-long economic bender. So is the rest of the western world. The party is definitely over.

This has happened before, and it will happen again. It is the nature of economic cycles, it's just that this time the stakes are higher than any time since 1945. So what are the options?

1. Do nothing. Sometimes letting the chips fall where they may is the best option. I know I would like to see some irresponsible financiers who gorged themselves at the trough get their comeuppance, but if banks and industries fail, it will hurt a lot of good people who are just trying their best for their families. In this situation Adam Smith's invisible hand has been shoved up our collective asses.

2. Tax cuts. I know I would like to get a little more credited to my account on payday, I'm sure most people would, but I really believe most of that money will go to servicing existing debt and saving for a rainy day (ie if they lose their jobs). Yes, the money would go back to the financial institutions that way, but they are still pretty reluctant to loan working capital to business to keep things ticking over. That is the crunch part of the credit crunch.

3. Keynesianism. Spend money on the assets needed to keep the economy functioning. Lines of communication - roads, upgrading bridges, heck even getting people to plant forests so there's an asset to harvest in 20 years. Show a little vision and think of the long term. Most private industries don't do this because it would take so long to yield a return (although Warren Buffett has done very well for himself in buying shares for life). The downside is that it furthers the national debt and there are consequences for this, but it is a calculated risk.

Is there a fourth way? (Excluding running for the hills with a rifle and a couple of years' supply of tinned food)

biglot: Repubs voting against the package should stick to their principles, show what they're made of, and NOT accept any money earmarked for their districts.

The bill passed anyway. How exactly are individual Congressmen supposed to stop spending in a bill that's been passed?

Another Republican governor who wants the stimulus package:



We're staring at a $1.8 billion deficit over the next three years, and with the economy tanking, tourism numbers have been falling like a stone. For better or worse, we're also bound by the state constitution to run a balanced budget, so instead of running up a massive debt California-style, the government will simply make *huge* cuts. More importantly, the package will provide jobs for people who desperately need them here.

Looks like Sarah Palin is the only Real American left who can save us. The rest of the GOP are socialists!

WhyteRaven74: Weaver95: Ed Rendell still thinks he's the Mayor of Philadelphia

Well isn't Rendell pretty much the definition of complete farking moran?

Just recently, he announced that he's going to lay off an undisclosed (but presumed massive) number of state employees. He said, and I quote, "I don't want to hear any whining!".

So yes, dear old Eddie is about as stupid as you'd imagine. He's 'philly politican' smart, which is a little like being 'internet famous' only with a lot more cheese steaks and more kick back schemes and none of the good stuff.

Bucky Katt: Looks like Sarah Palin is the only Real American left who can save us.

Right. That's why she's in Washington this weekend to beg for her share of the stimulus (pops).

"My Man Mitch" is humping his leg like crazy. Who, by the way is NOT my man.

Weaver95: Most Republican governors have broken with their GOP colleagues in Congress and are pushing for passage of President Barack Obama's economic aid plan that would send billions to states for education, public works and health care.

I have a radical idea - instead of collecting lots of money and then allowing the federal government to dole out bits of it here and there (in return for being a good little lapdog state), how about we stop feeding the beast?

In that case there would be no one there to take credit when things went smooth -- or take the blame when things are like they have been last year?

The Martintuckian: "My Man Mitch" is humping his leg like crazy. Who, by the way is NOT my man.

The visual on that was both disturbing and very, very amusing.

/Two-foot-tall Mitch

At least we're not yet to the point where Blackwater types bring Iraq back to the U.S.

abb3w: SchlingFocker: Does it really make any sense to have entire agencies dedicated to taking money from the taxpayers in the form of federal taxes and then give that money back to the states to spend on the taxpayers?

...and thus redistributing wealth...


...from Blue States to Red States.

Wait, that's the 2000 electoral college map; the tax shift is this one.


Sorry about that.

Why must you keep up with this point. That graph takes in nothing along the lines of subsidies that benefit the "blue" states. How much of that "pillaging" is for roads to farms or farm subsidies. I guess the "blue" states don't eat any corn/wheat/beef or even where cotton clothes or use up minerals from central states.

Such a stupid talking point.

If I were a state government official I'd be desperate for Obama's plan to pass too since it's going to give me a lot of sweet sweet money to spend on pet projects.

I also like how it's quietly gone from a plan that will "Create" jobs to a plan that will "Save" jobs... So just in case it's the failure that we know it's going to be, we can claim it "Saved" jobs because there's no damn way of knowing.

severe greed has every one putting their hands out

Pork has wings

this man would suggest you just blow up the friggin bridge and move on

The Dems have the votes

now just use it

and when this fails, and it will, the Dems get all the credit

this will end well

AdamK: this man would suggest you just blow up the friggin bridge and move on

"I can see by your outfit that you are a cowboy, and if I had and outfit I could be a cowboy too..."

Weaver95: I wish that really HAD been his plan....but Congress keep raising taxes, stealing money and spending like there was no tomorrow.

So the Democrats get the blame for increased spending under President Reagan but Reagan single-handedly spent the Soviet Union into oblivion?

Christ, how do Republicans remember to breathe?

/would like to add that Rendell is an ass.

Weaver95: Most Republican governors have broken with their GOP colleagues in Congress and are pushing for passage of President Barack Obama's economic aid plan that would send billions to states for education, public works and health care.

I have a radical idea - instead of collecting lots of money and then allowing the federal government to dole out bits of it here and there (in return for being a good little lapdog state), how about we stop feeding the beast?

A solution? That'll never work.

(photo commentary obviously unrelated to Rendell)

T-Servo: /would like to add that Rendell is an ass.

And you all call people paranoid that believe that greys and reptilian clones have taken over the government. Look at those pictures!