Now, on the list of Obama has done, will do, could have done or might do that would irritate me or piss me off, this is pretty far down.

That being said, however, I don't think it's a good thing. The image of the President and the Oval Office was badly damaged in the last 5 to 6 years, and I do not think that less decorum and showing less respect to the Oval Office is an amelioration.

Now I'm not saying we should go back to pre-Kennedy era where even not wearing a hat was seen as disrespectful, but if he wants to walk around without a jacket on, at least do it when there are no photographers around.

It's difficult for me to read an article about how Obama conducts his business and not feel a real liking for the guy. I hope he doesn't let it go to his head.

Tatsuma: That being said, however, I don't think it's a good thing. The image of the President and the Oval Office was badly damaged in the last 5 to 6 years, and I do not think that less decorum and showing less respect to the Oval Office is an amelioration.

Very much agree with this. We'll be in the minority, though. Most Farkers act like a jacket and tie are leg irons and a straight jacket.

The image of the President and the Oval Office was badly damaged in the last 5 to 6 years, and I do not think that less decorum and showing less respect to the Oval Office is an amelioration.

That had nothing to do w/ Bush's attire.

Also, for the past several years, the trend at most office has been more casual. Not flip flops and cargo shorts, but a lot of places have done away with ties, or pantyhose, being required. It has more to do with keeping staff happy and comfortable than a relaxation of rules, I think.

Tatsuma:

That being said, however,

Nice but.

Nabb1:

I'm afraid we'll be indeed...

Most Farkers act like a jacket and tie are leg irons and a straight jacket.

I really don't get it. I wear a jacket, often with tie, as well as a hat every freaking day, for years at this point, and I don't understand the complaints.

/I'm sure someone soon enough will extoll the virtues of old jeans and star wars tshirts with faded colors and cheetos stains versus dressing smart, though.

As long as he's doing his job, I couldn't care less what he wears in the oval office. Hell, my respect for the guy would go up if he worked in jeans and a t-shirt with coffee stains on it...

(That's how I look at work when we don't have any clients coming in, anyway.)

And if the last eight years are any indication, punctuality, proper dress, and the whole "early to bed, early to rise" stuff don't necessarily make an effective or competent president...

SherKhan: Nice but.

Better than Jessica's, but doesn't keep you as warm during the cold nights of winter, I'm afraid.

what_now: It has more to do with keeping staff happy and comfortable than a relaxation of rules, I think.

As I said:

Tatsuma: but if he wants to walk around without a jacket on, at least do it when there are no photographers around.

Tatsuma: /I'm sure someone soon enough will extoll the virtues of old jeans and star wars tshirts with faded colors and cheetos stains versus dressing smart, though.

You can look professional without dressing to the nines. I have no problem with a president requiring suit jackets either, but this is very far from a big deal. And more an insight into Obama's personality than anything else.

Mr. Obama, who hates the cold, had cranked up the thermostat.

That ain't very Cateresque.

what_now: The image of the President and the Oval Office was badly damaged in the last 5 to 6 years, and I do not think that less decorum and showing less respect to the Oval Office is an amelioration.

That had nothing to do w/ Bush's attire.

Also, for the past several years, the trend at most office has been more casual. Not flip flops and cargo shorts, but a lot of places have done away with ties, or pantyhose, being required. It has more to do with keeping staff happy and comfortable than a relaxation of rules, I think.

These people work in the White House, not Initech or some other cubicle farm.

Senescent Dawn: You can look professional without dressing to the nines. I have no problem with a president requiring suit jackets either, but this is very far from a big deal.

So we basically agree, then?

And yes, you can absolutely look professional without a full suit and knotted handkerchief, however the man is fulfilling what is arguably the most important and powerful position on Earth, and is a representative of America outside. I still think he's expected to do a bit more than the general population. At least under the public's eye.

And more an insight into Obama's personality than anything else.

Sadly, I agree.

Tatsuma: I really don't get it. I wear a jacket, often with tie, as well as a hat every freaking day, for years at this point, and I don't understand the complaints.

I hear you. I wore a suit every day but Saturday for my first job. With hose and heels usually (I am a woman). I was in sales and it was part of the "image" I was selling. This was 2000-2002

I hated sales. Hated the corporate world, to tell the truth. The ONLY THING I liked was the clothes. I spent a lot of money on classic suits that I only wear today for job interviews and special events.

However, everyone I know who's still in sales dresses business casual. That's just the standard. It apparently relaxes the clients when you lose the jacket. I'm not saying it's good or bad, it's just the current style.

/wearing a nice sweater and wool pants.

Nabb1: These people work in the White House, not Initech or some other cubicle farm.

Exactly.

Tatsuma:
/I'm sure someone soon enough will extoll the virtues of old jeans and star wars tshirts with faded colors and cheetos stains versus dressing smart, though.

Heh...get out of my head!

For the record, it's suit and tie for me (I even comb my hair) when we're doing client presentations or any other sort of meeting with folks outside the agency. Image is important, but being comfortable makes me far more productive, plus it keeps the dry-cleaning bills to a minimum.

what_now: (I am a woman)

How you doin'?

Anyway, I don't see a problem with this. I may have mentioned this in the other thread, but Clinton rarely even wore pants in the Oval Office. This is a step up!

I'm sure everyone won't be milling about in wrinkled shirtsleeves and khakis when the need for a higher level of decorum is required.

If he thinks he can get more work done without a suit jacket, let him.

*yawn*

what_now: I hear you. I wore a suit every day but Saturday for my first job. With hose and heels usually (I am a woman). I was in sales and it was part of the "image" I was selling. This was 2000-2002

Funny story, I too often wear hose and heels with my suit

Yup, it's all about image, really, and I don't think that's projecting the right image.

Come on, you can't tell me that Bill Clinton was wearing a suit coat when he was getting hummers from interns. This story is just the right wing nutjobs looking for anything to complain about. What's next, Obama's ties will be too narrow?

So let me get this straight: Some of you think that the President spending 15 minutes berating a staffer for having the temerity to wear khakis and a button-down shirt on a Saturday was a valuable investment of time?

People that cannot lead often resort to enforcing draconian rules to give themselves the sense that they are leading. It's obvious Bush was a disaster as a president, but gosh darnit, he made sure that everyone wore a suit.

Priorities, friend.

I have no problem with the abolition of the necktie. Modern society clings to silly pieces of traditional clothing that serve no purpose. It's not stylish, it's pointless.

UNC_Samurai: It's not stylish, it's pointless.

Arguing on the internet is pointless, yet, here we are. And, yes, ties are stylish. Maybe not YOUR style, but they are stylish. Like any other piece of attire they can look good or bad, subtle or garish, fashionable or tacky. If you can't find a stylish tie, you aren't looking. If you complain they are too tight, then you don't know how to buy a properly fitting shirt. Gentlemen do not complain about having to don one when the situation or decorum call for it.

Bush was like that girl who really didn't have anything going for her about but her looks, so her hair and makeup was always perfect.

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds

Emerson, pond and calmer

Tatsuma: as well as a hat every freaking day

paper hats doen't really count

UNC_Samurai: I have no problem with the abolition of the necktie. Modern society clings to silly pieces of traditional clothing that serve no purpose. It's not stylish, it's pointless.

See, I like ties... there usually the one piece of the standard business suit that allows for personality without drawing too much attention to yourself.

Nabb1: Very much agree with this. We'll be in the minority, though. Most Farkers act like a jacket and tie are leg irons and a straight jacket.

If he really wants to be a good example, he'd turn down the heat in the winter - tfa says you could grow orchids in there - and wear a suit. In the summer, he'd go casual with a golf shirt or something and turn the ac down as well. With that said, who really gives a shiat what he wears. He's the President. People should wear suits around him if they want to show respect to the office. He is the office, he can wear what he likes.

keylock71: UNC_Samurai: I have no problem with the abolition of the necktie. Modern society clings to silly pieces of traditional clothing that serve no purpose. It's not stylish, it's pointless.

See, I like ties... there usually the one piece of the standard business suit that allows for personality without drawing too much attention to yourself.

Cufflinks. I almost go exclusively with French cuffs these days.

EatHam: He is the office, he can wear what he likes.

Considering some of the people that have been through there, I have always thought the office of the President was above whomever happened to occupy it. Some have lived up to it. Many others have not.

UNC_Samurai: I have no problem with the abolition of the necktie. Modern society clings to silly pieces of traditional clothing that serve no purpose. It's not stylish, it's pointless.

If Farkers had their way the world would be boring as fark. Jesus. Music, art, fashion, anything interesting that isn't 100% utilitarian would be completely banished.

UNC_Samurai: It's not stylish, it's pointless.

I'm sorry, but you are completely wrong there. You might not see the appeal or understand it, but there definitely is one.

Nabb1: Gentlemen do not complain about having to don one when the situation or decorum call for it.

Addendum: Gentlemen also drink their scotch single malt, without mixers, and if on the rocks (though frowned upon), quick enough so the ice doesn't melt and dilute the flavor. The only acceptable way.

Who cares what he wears, as long as he gets the job done? Tradition is not a reason to do something. In fact, it's often a reason not to do something. fark the statu quo.

Tatsuma: I really don't get it. I wear a jacket, often with tie, as well as a hat every freaking day, for years at this point, and I don't understand the complaints.

It is because they bought a suit and k-mart instead of getting one tailored. Hell you don't even need to spend a lot to get a decent suit, just gotta pay attention for deals.

I wish I could wear one everyday, suits are more comfortable then khakis/slacks anyways.

Nabb1: Considering some of the people that have been through there, I have always thought the office of the President was above whomever happened to occupy it. Some have lived up to it. Many others have not.

I'm not sure, I'd have to verify, but I think you're speaking too much sense in a Fark thread, and that's punishable by a fine.

Could be worse. Could be a sweater vest.

Tatsuma: Addendum: Gentlemen also drink their scotch single malt, without mixers, and if on the rocks (though frowned upon), quick enough so the ice doesn't melt and dilute the flavor. The only acceptable way.

Further addendum: A gentleman knows there is no such thing as a "Chocolate martini." A martini has gin. Anything without gin is a cocktail, even in a martini glass (and most derivations ending in "-tini" are probably girl drinks, to boot, e.g. appletini).

Christ, you would think the guy was advocating they all roll into work in their PJ's from some of the comments. Everyone is wearing full suits to work through the week. Obama just doesn't force everyone to keep their suit jacket on while in a meeting in the Oval office and he lets staffers wear business casual on the weekend.

How that can possibly "show disrespect for the office" is beyond me.

This is a great example of how Bush restored dignity to the Oval Office, while Obama is destroying it.

Hummers -> Suit Jackets -> Untucked Shirts and Jeans (by 2011, I guarantee)

Change we can believe in, indeed.

entropic_existence: How that can possibly "show disrespect for the office" is beyond me.

Sometimes folks just like to get worked up over nothing. Especially if it reinforces their opinions.

entropic_existence: How that can possibly "show disrespect for the office" is beyond me.

dresscodes are important. How can someone think of a plan to fix the economy or decided the fate of a gitmo detainee if they aren't wearing a tie on a sunday?

John Paul Jones: So let me get this straight: Some of you think that the President spending 15 minutes berating a staffer for having the temerity to wear khakis and a button-down shirt on a Saturday was a valuable investment of time?

FTFA: "I'll never forget going to work on a Saturday morning, getting called down to the Oval Office because there was something he was mad about," said Dan Bartlett, who was counselor to Mr. Bush. "I had on khakis and a buttoned-down shirt, and I had to stand by the door and get chewed out for about 15 minutes. He wouldn't even let me cross the threshold."

Just... wow. Now, he wasn't getting chewed out because of his shirt and khakis, he was getting chewed out in the hallway because of his shirt and khakis. Not to mention that years later, the guy only remembers he wasn't allowed to cross the threshold, not what he was getting chewed out for. I'm sorry if me having a bit more respect for somebody who will treat people around him decently is a problem. But people will bust their balls for you if you just show them an ounce of respect. The fact that Bush never showed respect to anybody who wasn't his crony might explain a lot of the problems with his administration.

/That and he was a moron.
//Was going to submit this with a better headline, but it was already submitted.

Can't blame anyone for wanting to get rid of ties and full suits. I guess having to walk 1 mile to work in the sweltering Memphis summer in a full suit scarred me for life. I absolutely despise wearing full business dress. The only thing ties are good for are cleaning eyeglasses, dipping in your bowl of soup and cubicle suicide by hanging from the light fixtures.
/STILL required to wear a stupid farking tie in a backoffice job
//Angst!

Nabb1: A gentleman knows there is no such thing as a "Chocolate martini."

I thought you were pulling my leg, but then I googled it and this monstruosity actually exists.

... I wouldn't want to jump the gun, but the civilization part of Western Civilization is going to be dead once we lay to rest.

A martini has gin. Anything without gin is a cocktail, even in a martini glass (and most derivations ending in "-tini" are probably girl drinks, to boot, e.g. appletini).

Amen.

Tatsuma: I really don't get it. I wear a jacket, often with tie, as well as a hat every freaking day, for years at this point, and I don't understand the complaints.

Tatsuma drives a limo?

UNC_Samurai: I have no problem with the abolition of the necktie. Modern society clings to silly pieces of traditional clothing that serve no purpose. It's not stylish, it's pointless.

Something's bugging me... what was the name of the TV show set in the future where people wore two neckties at the same time? It was on in the 1990s. Damned if I can remember...

Nabb1: Arguing on the internet is pointless, yet, here we are. And, yes, ties are stylish. Maybe not YOUR style, but they are stylish.

I have also found pocket squares to be a good alternative (or addition depending on the occasion)

tweekster: It is because they bought a suit and k-mart instead of getting one tailored. Hell you don't even need to spend a lot to get a decent suit, just gotta pay attention for deals.

Indeed.

Nabb1: keylock71: UNC_Samurai: I have no problem with the abolition of the necktie. Modern society clings to silly pieces of traditional clothing that serve no purpose. It's not stylish, it's pointless.

See, I like ties... there usually the one piece of the standard business suit that allows for personality without drawing too much attention to yourself.

Cufflinks. I almost go exclusively with French cuffs these days.

I like 'em, I'm just prone to losing small items like that, unfortunately. Plus it would involve taking most of my dress shirts to the tailors to accommodate them into my formal dress wardrobe.

I like waist coats, too, and I'm less likely to lose those...

I think it's worse that he is cranking up the heat after cussing us out for doing so when I don't.

/Hippycrit

tweekster: I have also found pocket squares to be a good alternative (or addition depending on the occasion)

Getting a kick...