The GOP lacks that one thing which may be the most important trait a civil servant requires - 'good faith'.

We're now one step closer to Great Depression II.

DamnYankees


I thought you were going to say something like "the capacity for abstract thought" or "upright walking posture" but what you said is pretty much true.

Maybe GOP never saw it. They should have sent copies of the bill into men's rooms across the nation.

ScubaDude1960: We're now one step closer to Great Depression II.

i assume you're comparing this to the new deal, and if so you have the order of events surrounding the great depression grossly out of whack. we were 4 years deep into the depression by the time FDR was elected.

Good thing the GOP likes to talk big on being non-partisan, but hasn't been since Reagan.

ScubaDude1960: We're now one step closer to Great Depression II.

Yes, let's just rewrite history to say that FDR make the Great Depression worse, despite no corroborating evidence, then turn around and decide this is the next one, and then do nothing but blame people for causing it when it was the conservative business models that caused it in the first place.

What a bunch of partisan asshats.

DamnYankees: The GOP lacks that one thing which may be the most important trait a civil servant requires - 'good faith'.

Is 'good faith' code word for "falls in line with Obama's plans?"

GAT_00: Yes, let's just rewrite history to say that FDR make the Great Depression worse, despite no corroborating evidence

A couple of economists from some backwater no name place like ucla disagree with you. (new window)

who cares? it passed, yes? Do we get super extra special obama points for beating the spread or something?

KaponoFor3: DamnYankees: The GOP lacks that one thing which may be the most important trait a civil servant requires - 'good faith'.

Is 'good faith' code word for "falls in line with Obama's plans?"

It means that if you are negotiating, its expected that you actually give something up. Otherwise you're an asshat. There are sort of a few options for what happened here:

1) Obama gave up stuff knowing no one in the GOP would vote against the bill anyway.
2) Obama gave up stuff thinking the GOP would give something up, but in reality he was mistaken and the GOP made it clear they were going to vote against it. Obama's effort at compromise were idiotic on his part and the GOP was clear they would not support it.
3) Obama gave up stuff in negotiations because the GOP actually gave up stuff as well - ie their votes. They negotiated. The GOP actually never intended to vote for this, though, and merely lied to Obama.

Which seems most likely? Which is most honorable?

KaponoFor3: DamnYankees: The GOP lacks that one thing which may be the most important trait a civil servant requires - 'good faith'.

Is 'good faith' code word for "falls in line with Obama's plans?"

kind of like independent means Obama is always wrong.

bimalc: who cares? it passed, yes? Do we get super extra special obama points for beating the spread or something?

They had negotiations. Obama gave things up during those negotiations. What, exactly, did the GOP give up?

KaponoFor3: DamnYankees: The GOP lacks that one thing which may be the most important trait a civil servant requires - 'good faith'.

Is 'good faith' code word for "falls in line with Obama's plans?"

It means taking a wide stance on issues. Promising you're not gonna F*ck your constituents and keeping those pages busy.

DamnYankees: It means that if you are negotiating, its expected that you actually give something up. Otherwise you're an asshat.

see: Ca legislature for examples.

DamnYankees: bimalc: who cares? it passed, yes? Do we get super extra special obama points for beating the spread or something?

They had negotiations. Obama gave things up during those negotiations. What, exactly, did the GOP give up?

well, i would say the senate version might not be as republican-friendly.

RobertBruce

Ohanian and Cole blame specific anti-competition and pro-labor measures that Roosevelt promoted and signed into law June 16, 1933.

GDP rose every year between 33 and 37. thanks for playing.

burndtdan: well, i would say the senate version might not be as republican-friendly.

But that's a whole separate issue. The Senate bill is a different version - its basically a different bill. Obama specifically went to Congress to talk with Boehner and the other GOP leaders in the house.

In light of this vote...why?

bimalc: who cares? it passed, yes? Do we get super extra special obama points for beating the spread or something?

I had the moneyline at -400, I totally cashed!

DamnYankees: 1) Obama gave up stuff knowing no one in the GOP would vote against the bill anyway.

What did he give up? Genuinely curious. All of your options presuppose he gave something up during the negotiations. If he rammed it through as is without giving anything up, I could understand the blanket NO vote. Harder to understand if some concessions were made.

Mordant: kind of like independent means Obama is always wrong.

I don't know too many independents that think like that seeing as Obama kicked ass with the independent vote in the election.

RobertBruce: A couple of economists from some backwater no name place like ucla disagree with you. (new window)

All right, we got 2 people. I guess the rest of them are wrong.

burndtdan: DamnYankees: bimalc: who cares? it passed, yes? Do we get super extra special obama points for beating the spread or something?

They had negotiations. Obama gave things up during those negotiations. What, exactly, did the GOP give up?

well, i would say the senate version might not be as republican-friendly.

And now Obama has seen how they 'negotiate' early on, and still has at least two years with a Dem Congress and Senate.

GAT_00: it was the conservative business models that caused it in the first place.

They caused the first one, too.

I believe that a vote pretty much along party lines was anticipated in the house.

Obama has been willing to work with the Republicans on this since the beginning, and I suspect the attempts to reach a compromise will continue despite the partisanship displayed today.

I'm not sure the pig-headed approach is the way the republicans want to go with this as they don't have a majority to back it up...

Come on in and have a seat at the table and work with the Obama administration or sit outside in the cold and sulk. Either way, something is going to get passed.

DamnYankees: They had negotiations. Obama gave things up during those negotiations. What, exactly, did the GOP give up?

Absolutely. Obama struck a conciliatory tone and attempted to make the bill a compromise. The fact that not a SINGLE Republican congressman voted for it really clearly illuminates the fact that the party has learned nothing from their losses and are more interested in making political points than working with a reasonable member of the opposition. They calculate, quite accurately, that we're in for very hard times. Stimulus or no. Now they can blame Obama, even if they would have made things worse themselves.

They can rot, the lot of them.

Senescent Dawn: They can rot, the lot of them.

Does Obama have the power to have them flogged? I'd go find a TV to watch that .

Senescent Dawn: They calculate, quite accurately, that we're in for very hard times. Stimulus or no. Now they can blame Obama, even if they would have made things worse themselves.

Shrewd politically, no doubt. Probably not wise from a long term perspective if the Obama plan actually works.

Also, can anyone point to what concessions Obama did make in this bill?

KaponoFor3: Senescent Dawn: They calculate, quite accurately, that we're in for very hard times. Stimulus or no. Now they can blame Obama, even if they would have made things worse themselves.

Shrewd politically, no doubt. Probably not wise from a long term perspective if the Obama plan actually works.

Also, can anyone point to what concessions Obama did make in this bill?

Here's one article from today about family planning stuff:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/875180.html (new window)

The Democrats knew they had the votes to pass it before obama went over and talked to the Repubs. I think that says even more about him. I don't recall any President trying to mend fences when his side was already "winning."

/But I could be wrong, because politics are not really my thing. PLEASE DON'T HURT ME.

DamnYankees: burndtdan: well, i would say the senate version might not be as republican-friendly.

But that's a whole separate issue. The Senate bill is a different version - its basically a different bill. Obama specifically went to Congress to talk with Boehner and the other GOP leaders in the house.

In light of this vote...why?

the republicans were giant dicks. but that's why i bring up the senate version; so long as he gets that one or two republicans he needs, he can pull the stuff he was offering house republicans and not lose anything.

but it's pretty clear that the republicans were being obstructionist dicks, and now look like they don't want to help the economy, while simultaneously looking incredibly weak. these are not good things for a politician.

DamnYankees: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/875180.html

Thanks for the link. Do you know if the Democrats followed through and did drop the family planning stuff like Obama requested?

FTA: "While he believed that the policy of increased funding for family planning was the right one ... he didn't believe that this bill was the vehicle to make that happen," White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said.

That's awesome.

It's still full of a bunch of the pork that Obama promised to fight... the $500 stimulus checks will go to "workers" even if they didn't
earn enough to pay taxes but the retired and disabled people who have one foot out the door and in to a cardboard box can burn in hell... and it's got almost nothing for private industry, all of the "jobs" it is supposed to create will be government jobs, and won't happen for at least 18 months minimum.

/Thanks a lot, dems.

KaponoFor3: Senescent Dawn: They calculate, quite accurately, that we're in for very hard times. Stimulus or no. Now they can blame Obama, even if they would have made things worse themselves.

Shrewd politically, no doubt. Probably not wise from a long term perspective if the Obama plan actually works.

Also, can anyone point to what concessions Obama did make in this bill?

One Republican later quoted the president as saying any changes would have to come after the House gives what is expected to be largely party-line approval Wednesday to the Democratic-backed bill.

Looks like most of the changes will be done in the Senate...

From the linked article:

Democrats made one small change, voting to delete $20 million intended for renovating the National Mall...

On Monday, he (Obama) leaned on House Democrats to jettison an item that would make it easier for states to provide family planning funds for the poor under Medicaid, a provision in the legislation that had become a target of ridicule for Republicans...

One Republican senator, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the president pledged to Sen. John Ensign, R-Nev., to have aides review two specific proposals. One would affect businesses that pay down their debt. The other would provide a temporary tax holiday for companies that have money overseas and bring it back to the United States to invest...

SpeshilEdjukashin: It's still full of a bunch of the pork that Obama promised to fight... the $500 stimulus checks will go to "workers" even if they didn't
earn enough to pay taxes but the retired and disabled people who have one foot out the door and in to a cardboard box can burn in hell

oh that's rich. yes, we're all going to believe that you really care about the poor homeless man.

/seriously, i lol'd

SpeshilEdjukashin: It's still full of a bunch of the pork that Obama promised to fight... the $500 stimulus checks will go to "workers" even if they didn't
earn enough to pay taxes but the retired and disabled people who have one foot out the door and in to a cardboard box can burn in hell... and it's got almost nothing for private industry, all of the "jobs" it is supposed to create will be government jobs, and won't happen for at least 18 months minimum.

/Thanks a lot, dems.

Do you have anything besides making stuff up? None of that is actually based in "reality" but rather a skewed form of reality that fits your worldview. You see, this is why Republicans have lost the last two elections. Maybe you need to lose a couple more to figure it out.

keylock71: Looks like most of the changes will be done in the Senate...

Great, the more you know. Thanks.

Senescent Dawn: They can rot, the lot of them.

I'm a Republican and I voted for damn few of them last election. If they keep this shiat up, I'm going to vote for even less of them. We failed, end of story. The country wanted change and we offered nothing - the efforts put up by McCain and Palin were nothing but a token response to resounding polls that the Republican party never listened to or even acknowledged. "Change you can believe in" was a rip off and a slap in the fact to those of us Republicans that want real change.

So yeah, Republicans in power? I'm looking at you. Your days in office are numbered if you keep this shiat up - the real party members will find people closer ideolgically to themselves and vote for them (Much like a lot of us did last election). You represent not only Republicans, but Democrats and Independents. You're a REPRESENTATIVE first and a party member second.

SpeshilEdjukashin: It's still full of a bunch of the pork that Obama promised to fight... the $500 stimulus checks will go to "workers" even if they didn't
earn enough to pay taxes but the retired and disabled people who have one foot out the door and in to a cardboard box can burn in hell... and it's got almost nothing for private industry, all of the "jobs" it is supposed to create will be government jobs, and won't happen for at least 18 months minimum.

Dude, if the bill specifically singled you out for whatever you wanted, you'd still biatch and moan if it was voted on by a single Democratic representative.

me texan: I'm a Republican and I voted for damn few of them last election.

I would seriously weep with joy if a real small-government fiscal conservative took the helm in the Republican party. But I'm realizing more and more that they're not going to be the vehicle for that kind of revival. They chose to outright overtly appeal to bigots and xenophobes in the election season -- and that was from one of the few Republicans I still had respect for.

keylock71: Democrats made one small change, voting to delete $20 million intended for renovating the National Mall...

This is ridiculous, by the way. Why the hell would anyone be against renovating the mall?

This is pretty simple. Republican f-ups over the last few years have been such that the only Republican reps come from districts where folks would vote for a Republican unless they were caught with Edwin Edwards' 'live boy or dead girl' and maybe even then. Along with a few who have a history and name recognition that allows them to pretty much hold office for life. All those people have to do is vote reliably against Democrats and their constituency will be either happy or oblivious.

The Senate, where members have to run statewide, is what will tell the tale for the next two years.

How about the 11 Democrats who voted against this? Are you upset with them too, subby?

mikemoto: How about the 11 Democrats who voted against this? Are you upset with them too, subby?

i'm personally more unhappy with the ~30 republicans who said they were willing to vote for it but then got bullied into voting against it by their leadership.

the 11 democrats voting what they think is right? no. the republicans who voted partisan politics INSTEAD of what they think is right? fark them.

There is no problem, no matter how small, large, simple, or complex, whose solution is not "capital gains tax cuts".

BuckTurgidson: There is no problem, no matter how small, large, simple, or complex, whose solution is not "capital gains tax cuts".

my sick mother was cured by capital gains tax cuts.

burndtdan: BuckTurgidson: There is no problem, no matter how small, large, simple, or complex, whose solution is not "capital gains tax cuts".

my sick mother was cured by capital gains tax cuts.

Capitals gains tax increases killed my father and raped my sister.

burndtdan: BuckTurgidson: There is no problem, no matter how small, large, simple, or complex, whose solution is not "capital gains tax cuts".

my sick mother was cured by capital gains tax cuts.

I heard that Jesus wasn't going to come back, but someone told him that they were going to cut capital gains taxes, and he said "Oh hells yes" and is going to come throw a party.

GAT_00: Good thing the GOP likes to talk big on being non-partisan, but hasn't been since Reagan.

ScubaDude1960: We're now one step closer to Great Depression II.

Yes, let's just rewrite history to say that FDR make the Great Depression worse, despite no corroborating evidence, then turn around and decide this is the next one, and then do nothing but blame people for causing it when it was the conservative business models that caused it in the first place.

No need to rewrite history. There's tons of evidence that FDR made it worse, and none that show that he made it better. You do know that the New Deal was mostly the same disastrous policies that Hoover started, just with different names, don't you? "Conservative business models" were not the issue.

DamnYankees: Capitals gains tax increases killed my father and raped my sister.

Oh, sorry. That was me.

burndtdan:

the republicans were giant dicks. but that's why i bring up the senate version; so long as he gets that one or two republicans he needs, he can pull the stuff he was offering house republicans and not lose anything.

but it's pretty clear that the republicans were being obstructionist dicks, and now look like they don't want to help the economy, while simultaneously looking incredibly weak. these are not good things for a politician.

So Obama will win it in the Conference Committee?

The House GOP is going to quickly learn that when you are in the minority by a large margin, it usually a good idea to be gracious when the leader of the majority is being much nicer to them than he has to be.