But in this complex world of fascism that was Utah state policy, we had only one choice if we wanted real beer.

Choice B, Wyoming.

Well, let's just get this out of the way: I drink better beer than the rest of you, but you are far too simple to even realize it. Peasants.

Beer is yummy.

Q. Why do you take two Mormons when you go fishing?

A. If you only take one he will drink all your beer.

D.Slinger

I thought that was Baptists, but I guess the joke will work either way.

\From the Dirty South thats full of fire and brimstone types.
\\Love southern Utah

thereadlines: Well, let's just get this out of the way: I drink better beer than the rest of you, but you are far too simple to even realize it. Peasants.

Pssh, they make your beer with the piss I take after drinking mine. Which means yours still better than the rest of the thread's beer.

UNC_Samurai: But in this complex world of fascism that was Utah state policy, we had only one choice if we wanted real beer.

Choice B, Wyoming.

Perhaps you don't actually know what fascism is? fascism refers to a nationalist Ideology, Utah is a state, not a nation. it also focuses on solving economic, political and social concerns, that cause national decline, again, this is on a national level, and Utah/s alcohol policies in no way effect those items listed. Fascism also prepares a nation for armed conflict, i see no instances of Utah alcohol policies doing anything of the sort, on a state or national level.

besides, If Utah is so terrible, don't live there, believe me, no one in Utah would cry over a whiny alcoholic leaving the state, I figure you'd be missed about as much as a Californian leaving Utah, but for some reason, those morons can't stay away, I guess they have ruined California and they are now looking to ruin other states as well?

gunsculptor:

Perhaps you don't actually know what fascism is? fascism refers to a nationalist Ideology, Utah is a state, not a nation. it also focuses on solving economic, political and social concerns, that cause national decline, again, this is on a national level, and Utah/s alcohol policies in no way effect those items listed. Fascism also prepares a nation for armed conflict, i see no instances of Utah alcohol policies doing anything of the sort, on a state or national level.

besides, If Utah is so terrible, don't live there, believe me, no one in Utah would cry over a whiny alcoholic leaving the state, I figure you'd be missed about as much as a Californian leaving Utah, but for some reason, those morons can't stay away, I guess they have ruined California and they are now looking to ruin other states as well?

Dude. Relax. Have a beer.

Same with homosexuality.

Espertron: gunsculptor:

Perhaps you don't actually know what fascism is? fascism refers to a nationalist Ideology, Utah is a state, not a nation. it also focuses on solving economic, political and social concerns, that cause national decline, again, this is on a national level, and Utah/s alcohol policies in no way effect those items listed. Fascism also prepares a nation for armed conflict, i see no instances of Utah alcohol policies doing anything of the sort, on a state or national level.

besides, If Utah is so terrible, don't live there, believe me, no one in Utah would cry over a whiny alcoholic leaving the state, I figure you'd be missed about as much as a Californian leaving Utah, but for some reason, those morons can't stay away, I guess they have ruined California and they are now looking to ruin other states as well?

Dude. Relax. Have a beer.

lame, grow a brain and try again, at least try to make your joke funny

gunsculptor: Espertron: gunsculptor:

Perhaps you don't actually know what fascism is? fascism refers to a nationalist Ideology, Utah is a state, not a nation. it also focuses on solving economic, political and social concerns, that cause national decline, again, this is on a national level, and Utah/s alcohol policies in no way effect those items listed. Fascism also prepares a nation for armed conflict, i see no instances of Utah alcohol policies doing anything of the sort, on a state or national level.

besides, If Utah is so terrible, don't live there, believe me, no one in Utah would cry over a whiny alcoholic leaving the state, I figure you'd be missed about as much as a Californian leaving Utah, but for some reason, those morons can't stay away, I guess they have ruined California and they are now looking to ruin other states as well?

Dude. Relax. Have a beer.

lame, grow a brain and try again, at least try to make your joke funny

At least try to recognize SLC Punk quotes when they are relevant to the thread.

Utah's homebrewing laws are keeping me away for the time being. I love the skiing though. Alta rocks my face off... like in Face/Off.

\Medalist, Upper Mississippi Mash-Out 2009

This last summer I spent a week in Moab and enjoyed several meals at the Moab Brewery. They do an amazing job at brewing the various styles of beers, despite the fact they required to keep the alcohol content 3.2 or below. Usually when playing with a beer's alcohol content, either too high or low, it messes up the taste. I kept wondering how truly magnificent their products would be if they were not limited by the 3.2 rule.

While Utah definitely has it's share of high profile religious nutjobs and antiquated, backwards laws, it gets a worse rep than it deserves. I rode a motorcycle through parts of the state some years back, and the natural beauty of the place is breathtaking. The people were exceedingly friendly even to a traveling stranger. Granted, this is the same experience I had in W. Virginia, so take it for what it's worth.

I still think there are far, far worse places than Utah. And drinking there is nowhere near as difficult as I was led to believe.

This is a non story. Gentiles are driven to drink by Mormons

Stay Cool Babylon: While Utah definitely has it's share of high profile religious nutjobs and antiquated, backwards laws, it gets a worse rep than it deserves. I rode a motorcycle through parts of the state some years back, and the natural beauty of the place is breathtaking. The people were exceedingly friendly even to a traveling stranger. Granted, this is the same experience I had in W. Virginia, so take it for what it's worth.

I still think there are far, far worse places than Utah. And drinking there is nowhere near as difficult as I was led to believe.

I think it only gets a bad rap by the uninformed who love to venture opinions about people.,places/things they know nothing about. i guess it keeps on being one of the fastest growing states because it is a terrible place to live. But hey, where would all of the haters be if they had to base their arguments and ridicule on facts instead of what they would like to drum things up to be? Sadly, they can't accept reality because it would mean they were wrong and too dumb to see they were wrong for so long

I'm hung over from several pitchers of raspberry wheat beer so I'm getting a kick out of these replies.

Have friends there, been there, drank that, unsurprised. Utah is not really much like the stereotypes and has lots of natural wonders to explore. Next time I'm going to visit the hole gunsculptor is digging, unless he hits oil.

gunsculptor: I think it only gets a bad rap by the uninformed who love to venture opinions about people.,places/things they know nothing about. i guess it keeps on being one of the fastest growing states because it is a terrible place to live. But hey, where would all of the haters be if they had to base their arguments and ridicule on facts instead of what they would like to drum things up to be? Sadly, they can't accept reality because it would mean they were wrong and too dumb to see they were wrong for so long

I'm a Southerner, so you're preaching to the choir. Didn't you know that it's hip for people to toss up easy, tired cliches for their own smug amusement? It's as though Oakland is a paradise, North Philly a bastion of unicorns farts and cotton candy. All of those people who gasbag superiority over the South, Utah, etc surely live in paradises right here on Earth. And as we all know, there are no stupid people, familial perverts, religious fanatics or living cliches anywhere but the American South and, of course, Utah.

I can vouch for Squatters (and they're just one of the Wasatch group.)

Fine beer on tap, and the beer machine pull for the cask is a nice touch. Excellent eclectic menu too.

I'd rank it as better than Chama River in Albuquerque, but not quite as good as Free State in Lawrence.

I drank at Hoppers a few times while in Salt Lake City for training. Good beer, the Hefeweizen was decent. What gets me is that they close at ten on a saturday night. You can drink elsewhere, but they're all members only places that you pay a fee to join for one night. Not a party town by any means.

Some local brewery around here in SLC a while back had this 'taste test' Tuesdays or something like that. I honestly don't remember much. But what I do remember is you paid like $5, brought a schooner, and it was basically drink till you can't stand anymore. Me and my bud used to get so farking faded before heading out to get some sushi at this whole in the wall joint on Main St.
Great farkin times.

gunsculptor: UNC_Samurai: But in this complex world of fascism that was Utah state policy, we had only one choice if we wanted real beer.

Choice B, Wyoming.

Perhaps you don't actually know what fascism is? fascism refers to a nationalist Ideology, Utah is a state, not a nation. it also focuses on solving economic, political and social concerns, that cause national decline, again, this is on a national level, and Utah/s alcohol policies in no way effect those items listed. Fascism also prepares a nation for armed conflict, i see no instances of Utah alcohol policies doing anything of the sort, on a state or national level.

besides, If Utah is so terrible, don't live there, believe me, no one in Utah would cry over a whiny alcoholic leaving the state, I figure you'd be missed about as much as a Californian leaving Utah, but for some reason, those morons can't stay away, I guess they have ruined California and they are now looking to ruin other states as well?

Whoa...the brewmaster from Wasatch is a sports car racing acquaintance. I'll have to send him props for the good coverage!

woody1018: Utah's homebrewing laws are keeping me away for the time being. I love the skiing though. Alta rocks my face off... like in Face/Off.

\Medalist, Upper Mississippi Mash-Out 2009

I do a lot of home brew in Utah. It is legal by federal law but questionable by state law. There are several decent brewing stores in salt lake and a couple north of salt lake. I have 4 kegs I rotate through regularly. Currently I have a simple Prarie Wheat and an Oktoberfest that I am aging. When I get home from work I have a Mead to attend to that I made with a bunch of local honey and some Blue Agave extract I ordered. I just finished off a Munich Dark Lager and a Peach Wheat that I made with a puree of real peaches in the secondary fermentation process.

I don't do full mash, I don't have the space or desire to go full bore. Extract kits and partial mash kits have served me well. For me the pleasure is not in the making of the beer...it is in the drinking thereof.

But yeah it's probably illegal so please stay the fark out of my state!

I spent a week in salt lake city last year. We did make it to a brewpub, I forget which one but they had polygamy porter. The beer was good but the 3.2 law kills it. You simply can't go out and have a good time with your friends drinking such low alcohol beer. They do sell bottled beer that is regular strength but it was around $7 a bottle. Trying to go to a liquor store and stock up is equally loony. We couldn't buy a case of beer at the store, they did not exist. You also couldn't buy cold beer. All bottled beers were displayed on shelves individually, as if they were bottles of liquor. To stock up you'd get a shopping cart and load it up, then pay an exorbitant sum, at which point you'd have to go home and stick everything in the fridge for a few hours to let it cool off.

Being from Colorado I really wasn't all that impressed with Utah. The scenery here is just as good, the skiing is just as good, the beer is way better and there aren't nearly as many mormons around.

ElBarto79: I spent a week in salt lake city last year. We did make it to a brewpub, I forget which one but they had polygamy porter. The beer was good but the 3.2 law kills it. You simply can't go out and have a good time with your friends drinking such low alcohol beer. They do sell bottled beer that is regular strength but it was around $7 a bottle. Trying to go to a liquor store and stock up is equally loony. We couldn't buy a case of beer at the store, they did not exist. You also couldn't buy cold beer. All bottled beers were displayed on shelves individually, as if they were bottles of liquor. To stock up you'd get a shopping cart and load it up, then pay an exorbitant sum, at which point you'd have to go home and stick everything in the fridge for a few hours to let it cool off.

Being from Colorado I really wasn't all that impressed with Utah. The scenery here is just as good, the skiing is just as good, the beer is way better and there aren't nearly as many mormons around.

You are an idiot. I filled the bed of my pickup with ice cold beer for a party this summer from the local convenience store. The liquor stores run by the state are not refrigerated...big deal put it on ice. Yes you have to drink more beer and I fail to see that as a problem. I like drinking beer. If I could drink more and not get as drunk I would drink more beer. My friends and I have a great time...sounds to me like your friends are a bunch of pricks.

Cold beer is in every grocery store and every mini-mart...you guys that complain about "weak" beer sound like a bunch of nancys. What's the matter? Got the bladder of a 12 yr old girl do ya?

Utah local here. Both Squatters and Red Rock make some pretty tasty brews and are nice pubs with good food too.

One upside of the 3.2 limit for draft beers is that you can easily get a beer (or two!) on your lunch break and then go back to work with a mild and pleasant buzz that makes the afternoon glide by.

Brew pubs gain a following in Utah. Wait...what?

Makes sense. If I had to live in Utah, I'd probably drink heavily.

/Polygamy Porter is good
//Why no Pay Lay Ale?

spencurai:
You are an idiot. I filled the bed of my pickup with ice cold beer for a party this summer from the local convenience store. The liquor stores run by the state are not refrigerated...big deal put it on ice. Yes you have to drink more beer and I fail to see that as a problem. I like drinking beer. If I could drink more and not get as drunk I would drink more beer. My friends and I have a great time...sounds to me like your friends are a bunch of pricks.

Cold beer is in every grocery store and every mini-mart...you guys that complain about "weak" beer sound like a bunch of nancys. What's the matter? Got the bladder of a 12 yr old girl do ya?

Dude I can handle drinking more beer, that's not so much the problem. The problem is they charge the same price for 3.2 beer that other states charge for regular beer. You can party and have a good time there, it's just going to cost twice what I would pay in Colorado or pretty much anywhere else.

The beer in grocery stores there is also 3.2 beer. The only place you can get "real" beer in Utah is a liquor store, and it's sold individually and warm, and it's expensive.

I will complain about 3.2 beer. I don't like it. If you do then good for you, stay in Utah, drink wimpy beer and be happy, I don't really care. I'm just saying I was underwhelmed and prefer bars that sell regular beer.

Oh yea, and what's with making people buy "memberships" to enter a bar, bars closing at 1 am, weak drinks, 2 bars per city block, etc?? It's like every law there is designed to annoy you to the point that you just give up on going out.

ElBarto79: Oh yea, and what's with making people buy "memberships" to enter a bar, bars closing at 1 am, weak drinks, 2 bars per city block, etc?? It's like every law there is designed to annoy you to the point that you just give up on going out.

Oh yeah...stay the hell outta my state...I always forget to tell people that when they complain about the best state in the union.

spencurai: ElBarto79: Oh yea, and what's with making people buy "memberships" to enter a bar, bars closing at 1 am, weak drinks, 2 bars per city block, etc?? It's like every law there is designed to annoy you to the point that you just give up on going out.

Oh yeah...stay the hell outta my state...I always forget to tell people that when they complain about the best state in the union.

Tard

ElBarto79

If you really think that skiing in Colorado is better than skiing in Utah, you must either not be a very good skier/snowboarder or you ski on the western slope. They get (on average) something like 250+ more inches a year, better quality snow, no crowds, good terrain. There's only a couple of Colorado resorts that compare with the ones outside of Salt Lake, and those resorts are not the ones that people on the Front range usually go to...

The beer on the other hand - 3.2 sucks ass.

Poop_Master_Flex: ElBarto79

If you really think that skiing in Colorado is better than skiing in Utah, you must either not be a very good skier/snowboarder or you ski on the western slope. They get (on average) something like 250+ more inches a year, better quality snow, no crowds, good terrain. There's only a couple of Colorado resorts that compare with the ones outside of Salt Lake, and those resorts are not the ones that people on the Front range usually go to...

The beer on the other hand - 3.2 sucks ass.

I didn't say it was better, I said it's just as good. And we don't need to get into an argument about which state has better skiing. Both are world class, just leave it at that.

I am opening a brewpub in Logan, Utah so I am really getting a kick out of these responses.

Cache Valley Brewing Company - future home of the northern Utah Fark party
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=99191720439

help stick it to The Man - invest in a Utah brewpub!

spencurai: ElBarto79: Oh yea, and what's with making people buy "memberships" to enter a bar, bars closing at 1 am, weak drinks, 2 bars per city block, etc?? It's like every law there is designed to annoy you to the point that you just give up on going out.

Oh yeah...stay the hell outta my state...I always forget to tell people that when they complain about the best state in the union.

You remind of that "get a brain moran" guy. Yes, Utah belongs to you, I will be sure and steer clear since "spencurai" on Fark.com told me I'm not allowed there anymore.

spencurai: ElBarto79: I spent a week in salt lake city last year. We did make it to a brewpub, I forget which one but they had polygamy porter. The beer was good but the 3.2 law kills it. You simply can't go out and have a good time with your friends drinking such low alcohol beer. They do sell bottled beer that is regular strength but it was around $7 a bottle. Trying to go to a liquor store and stock up is equally loony. We couldn't buy a case of beer at the store, they did not exist. You also couldn't buy cold beer. All bottled beers were displayed on shelves individually, as if they were bottles of liquor. To stock up you'd get a shopping cart and load it up, then pay an exorbitant sum, at which point you'd have to go home and stick everything in the fridge for a few hours to let it cool off.

Being from Colorado I really wasn't all that impressed with Utah. The scenery here is just as good, the skiing is just as good, the beer is way better and there aren't nearly as many mormons around.

You are an idiot. I filled the bed of my pickup with ice cold beer for a party this summer from the local convenience store. The liquor stores run by the state are not refrigerated...big deal put it on ice. Yes you have to drink more beer and I fail to see that as a problem. I like drinking beer. If I could drink more and not get as drunk I would drink more beer. My friends and I have a great time...sounds to me like your friends are a bunch of pricks.

Cold beer is in every grocery store and every mini-mart...you guys that complain about "weak" beer sound like a bunch of nancys. What's the matter? Got the bladder of a 12 yr old girl do ya?

even if he is an idiot.......Colorado>Utah.

Colorado is better than Utah....gotcha.

Great American Beer Festival

Is this a joke? Or just sarcasm?

JeffreyScott: This last summer I spent a week in Moab and enjoyed several meals at the Moab Brewery. They do an amazing job at brewing the various styles of beers, despite the fact they required to keep the alcohol content 3.2 or below.

Been there too and it was surprisingly great. It was so nice to finish a day of hard cycling with a growler of their beer.

LegalizeThoughtCrime
I am opening a brewpub in Logan, Utah so I am really getting a kick out of these responses.

Cache Valley Brewing Company - future home of the northern Utah Fark party
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=99191720439

help stick it to The Man - invest in a Utah brewpub!

Northern Utah Fark party? Any chance for a one night escapee from the Zion Curtain would be welcome? Oh yeah, are you hiring? :) Homebrewer, good with people, but can get in yo' a$$ if you ain't pulling your weight!

/threadjack over

I was in SLC for a conference and went to a brewpub for lunch. When the food came I was about half way through my first beer. The waitress asked if I want another, and I said sure. When she came back she just kind of stood there for a while, then said fairly impatiently "In Utah you cannot have two drinks at a time, so would you mind finishing that one first?" Not wanting to appear rude I chugged the rest, but I thought this was a really strange law.

You can always tell who the morons are when it comes to talking about Utah beer laws and NY Times continues in their fine tradition of stupidity.

Utah still has quirky alcohol laws, including one that sets a limit of 3.2 percent alcohol - a little more than half the amount standard in most beers around the world

You can walk into any Utah grocery store and get national brand beer like Bud, Miller, Coors, PBR etc. so do you think any of the major breweries give a rat's ass if they sell a single six pack in Utah? Are you stupid enough to think any of the breweries make special "Utah" beer? Go pick up any booze bottle and look on the label for the alcohol content and it will say after the percent ABV which means alcohol by volume. Utah law is written as percent alcohol by weight which given the lower density of alcohol than beer with the standard sugars, electrolytes and proteins dissolved in the water kicks the percentage up to around 5% ABV which accommodates all the national brands except the malt liquors like Old English 800 and the other crap they drink under bridges. In fact if you have a really heavy beer with a lot of solutes like a stout or an ale the percent by volume can be even higher because the density of the beer keeps the percentage by weight at 3.2%. The reason the law was written that way is that it makes the measurement temperature independent so a beer which would be legal at one temperature point doesn't become illegal at another temperature point because of the differing thermal expansion coefficients of ethanol and the nonalcoholic components of beer.

It's always good to have a litmus test to see which journalists don't do their research and the NY Times does just what you'd expect.

OscarTamerz: You can always tell who the morons are when it comes to talking about Utah beer laws and NY Times continues in their fine tradition of stupidity.

Utah still has quirky alcohol laws, including one that sets a limit of 3.2 percent alcohol - a little more than half the amount standard in most beers around the world

You can walk into any Utah grocery store and get national brand beer like Bud, Miller, Coors, PBR etc. so do you think any of the major breweries give a rat's ass if they sell a single six pack in Utah? Are you stupid enough to think any of the breweries make special "Utah" beer? Go pick up any booze bottle and look on the label for the alcohol content and it will say after the percent ABV which means alcohol by volume. Utah law is written as percent alcohol by weight which given the lower density of alcohol than beer with the standard sugars, electrolytes and proteins dissolved in the water kicks the percentage up to around 5% ABV which accommodates all the national brands except the malt liquors like Old English 800 and the other crap they drink under bridges. In fact if you have a really heavy beer with a lot of solutes like a stout or an ale the percent by volume can be even higher because the density of the beer keeps the percentage by weight at 3.2%. The reason the law was written that way is that it makes the measurement temperature independent so a beer which would be legal at one temperature point doesn't become illegal at another temperature point because of the differing thermal expansion coefficients of ethanol and the nonalcoholic components of beer.

It's always good to have a litmus test to see which journalists don't do their research and the NY Times does just what you'd expect.

Yes, the breweries do make special "Utah" beer. They sell the same thing in Colorado and Kansas grocery stores and I think in some other states. 3.2% ABW is the equivalent of about 4% ABV, not 5. Even the lightest piss beer you can find still has more than 4% ABV.

OscarTamerz and his 2 possible sockpuppets,spencurai and gunsculptor: It really seems to irritate the sand up your collective vaginas when people insult Utah. I'd like to point out, though, that I grew up there, and it sucks at least as much as all the haters think.

/LDS Church can take proposition 8 and shove it up its collective ass
//Paradoxically, mormons individually are some of the nicest people you can hope to meet.
///Except for the ones in this thread, apparently

ElBarto79: Yes, the breweries do make special "Utah" beer. They sell the same thing in Colorado and Kansas grocery stores and I think in some other states. 3.2% ABW is the equivalent of about 4% ABV, not 5. Even the lightest piss beer you can find still has more than 4% ABV.

QFT. I grew up in Colorado but left before Sunday liquor sales started. 3.2 "grocery store" beer is definitely different--some of it is OK, some is terrible, but all of it is from major national brands like Coors and Bud. The worst part about 3.2 beer, though, is that regular ole Guinness is somewhere around 3.4% ABW. Too bad the law isn't 3.5%.

The Utah brewers are truly AMAZING in their ability to produce beers that are both very good and 3.2% ABW. Polygamy Porter gets way more publicity than it deserves just because of its name, but it's quite good. Blackjack or Black Butte is better tho ;-)

I should, however, give a shout-out to the uintah brewing company; if you get a chance, I highly recommend the brewery tour. While they mostly have to keep their sales to 3.2% (and make some damn fine beers regardless), the brewmasters tend to have some higher strength brews lying around the facility ...

Yes, the breweries do make special "Utah" beer. They sell the same thing in Colorado and Kansas grocery stores and I think in some other states. 3.2% ABW is the equivalent of about 4% ABV, not 5. Even the lightest piss beer you can find still has more than 4% ABV.

Like I said it depends on what the density of the nonalcoholic part of the beer is. The denser it is the more alcohol you can pump in. The density of ethanol is .789 g/ml at 20^o C and the density of water is 1.000 g/ml so in a solution of pure water the 3.2 % ABW/.789g/ml = 4.056 % ABV so if you're drinking distilled water it's still over 4% ABV.

A list of brewery beer and data can be found at

http://hbd.org/ensmingr/

and going from there to

http://hbd.org/ensmingr/redhook.html

for Seattle's Redhook Brewery which is generally well regarded and looking at their highest alcohol beer, the Double Black Coffee Stout, which is 6.6% ABV and has a density of 1.023 then the nonalcoholic portion of the beer is (102.3 g Beer /100ml Beer -(6.6 ml alcohol x.789g/ml)=97.0926g nonalcohol/93.4ml nonalcohol=1.040g/ml as the density of its non alcoholic part. So a 3.2% ABW would be 96.8g nonalcohol beer/1.040 g/ml= 93.08ml of nonalcohol beer leaving a 6.92ml for a 6.92% ABV as the highest legal limit and making it a perfectly legal beer at 6.6% ABV to sell in Utah with its current law.

Like I said before the dumbass New York Times reporter didn't do the research.