Good. We should spend the money on rail, not more roads.

bronyaur1: Good. We should spend the money on rail, not more roads.

You realize that most trains can't go very far without going over a bridge, right?

WHARRGARBL website links to two other WHARRGARBL websites to prove their claim. Not to mention that the sole purpose of the stimulus was never to rebuild roads, though I do remember suggesting that be a big part of the job creation part of it.

JacksBlack: bronyaur1: Good. We should spend the money on rail, not more roads.

You realize that most trains can't go very far without going over a bridge, right?


Well, the Bay Area - L.A. SUPERTRAIN!^tm potentially could. I think.

Besides, bronyaur mentioned roads, not bridges.

We really, really, really need more rail, both freight and passenger.

GAT_00: WHARRGARBL website links to two other WHARRGARBL websites to prove their claim. Not to mention that the sole purpose of the stimulus was never to rebuild roads, though I do remember suggesting that be a big part of the job creation part of it.

Next time, just stop at the NewsBusters graphic. You'll save yourself time and trouble.

Occam's Chainsaw: Next time, just stop at the NewsBusters graphic. You'll save yourself time and trouble.

I was hoping they would actually back this one up. I'm not sure why they would, but I gave them a chance. I feel vindicated in ignoring them in the future.

GAT_00: WHARRGARBL website links to two other WHARRGARBL websites to prove their claim. Not to mention that the sole purpose of the stimulus was never to rebuild roads, though I do remember suggesting that be a big part of the job creation part of it.

I just wish they'd skip the middleman and link directly back to the real source of all this: www.rense.com

I wonder if people who submit NewsBusters links are going to start trying the trick people use when they submit WND articles under "Some Guy".

jake_lex: I wonder if people who submit NewsBusters links are going to start trying the trick people use when they submit WND articles under "Some Guy".

They'll set up a blogspot account and add a layer of obfuscation. They pretend it's one more source, lending it "credibility".

Zealotry should be a diagnosable condition in the DSM V.

...97% goes to tip for Nancy Pelosi's Hairstylist


It won't be enough.

Give it to Wall Street so they can decorate their offices with solid gold.

Dissing Newsbusters? Next thing you know POTUS B0 will be telling congress not to listen to Rush Limberger. Oh, he did that.

Fascism is closer than you ever could imagine people! Because HE won!

You all realize that the purpose of a stimulus package is to get people spending money, it doesn't really matter what on, some things are better than others, but its more about just spending money. I guess the article is trying to point out that one of the major selling points is rather negligible, but that's not surprising. Do we really expect the average American to understand the Keynesian rational of wasteful spending? Whether you agree with it or not, the reasoning is something most are ignorant of.

The article is muddled. The author forgets half way through what he is critizing.

I like the big slice called "Other". Who knows what hellishness lies beneath that label? Socialism? MUSLIM pride marches?

Or, it could be, like, the brothel expenses.

ilambiquated: The article is muddled. The author forgets half way through what he is critizing.

It was probably time for his Xanax ™.

the Pork now has Chairman OBAMA wings

RobsterCraw
You all realize that the purpose of a stimulus package is to get people spending money, it doesn't really matter what on, some things are better than others, but its more about just spending money. I guess the article is trying to point out that one of the major selling points is rather negligible, but that's not surprising. Do we really expect the average American to understand the Keynesian rational of wasteful spending? Whether you agree with it or not, the reasoning is something most are ignorant of.

which a TAX cut will do.....duh

not reward the folks who just voted you into power.... duh.....

After skimming through a spreadsheet of the bill's spending provisions, created by the folks over at Read the Stimulus, I'm not sure this article is far off the mark. Looks like a whole lotta pork is in there.

kmmontandon: SUPERTRAIN

Especially if you give them great coffee and good music.

FTFA (I had late phones and didn't notice the newsbusters link)

* For every dollar that is spent for small business tax relief, $4 are being spent for the maintenance and new grass in Washington, D.C.
* $360 million for sexually transmitted disease education
* $50 million for the National Endowment of Arts
* $726 million for an afterschool snack program
* Office furniture for the public health service
* More money for Amtrak

For every dollar spent on small business tax relief we are spending $360 MILLION(!) on std education?

/that's how I first read it
//really need that coffee and shift replacement

but.. that article made no sense. Damn liberal MSM.

I think the fundamental problem with the stimulus package is that Democrats see money as being equal to effort. They figure if they through enough cash at something they can buy their way out of a crisis.
It was the same mistake made by republicans.

Whats going to happen is that this cash ends up with the same irresponsible people who easily managed to smoke off more than ten times the amount.
Care to wager whats going to result?

I think roadworks are an easy to identify solution. Transportation and fuel have long been the lifeblood of our economy. So if you make getting people and goods from A to B cheaper, you boost the economy for everyone. It seems a better investment than putting the cash into bank mergers.
I'd disagree with the article that education and trains are a waste... but the ratios of spending seem all out of kilter.

If your going to throw around mass amounts of cash to upgrade the nation for improved business, infrastructure should take the most sizable chunks of the pie.

From the article:
The 2007 collapse of the I-35W bridge spanning the Mississippi in Minneapolis, Minn. was the initial event that prompted some in the media to start calling for higher taxes and up to $1.6 trillion in government spending to update infrastructure.

Which later examination revealed said bridge was weakened by the corrosive effect of bird shiat. Maybe the "O" can create a jobs program staffed by dedicated high paying shiat scrubbers. Oh wait, do actual work for money? That will never work with his constituents.

They had the number at 18% on Rachel Maddow's show last night (though they said it was for "infrastructure", not just bridges and roads). She and her guests were criticizing the low percentage as well.

I love how all their quotes basically show people saying that the stimulus will spend money on a variety of things, including infrastructure. From this they take infrastructure to somehow only mean constructing and repairing roads and bridges, and then act like its some huge discovery that only 3% is allocated to that. Did anyone actually think we were spending 100bn+ on roads and bridges? It's the 21st century, we have a pretty decent amount of roads and highways in this country; I'd assume most of that 3% goes towards repairs and maintenance. If there's one thing the stimulus has really been sold as its the whole "creation of green collar jobs" thing.

State_College_Arsonist: After skimming through a spreadsheet of the bill's spending provisions, created by the folks over at Read the Stimulus, I'm not sure this article is far off the mark. Looks like a whole lotta pork is in there.

How exactly is there a lot of "pork" in there? The details of the spending aren't even there yet, just the general areas where it'll be spent. Also, I've always thought pork was federal funding for superfluous projects reeled in by congressmen/senators for their constituencies, in order to say "hey look what I got you and remember this next November". This seems more like recognizing that we need to keep people working and money flowing into the economy.

This is his plan:

Linky (new window)

Is this clear enough?

The stimulus will create inflation and more inneffective government agencies and offices. Any good done by this amoutn of spending will be quickly overshadowed by the damage done by this amount of overspending. This is the same kind of crap that made the great depression last for a decade and a half instead of 4 or 5 years like all the other Depressions and Recessions.

Let go, let us take the hit and the pain. Get it over with and rebuild.

Exodus2001: This is his plan:

Linky (new window)

Is this clear enough?

I think that goes not where you expected it to go.

More about the stimulus package:
The Ohio congressman's office explains. One proposal included in the stimulus package would expand Medicaid family planning services to all 50 states.

The proposal would enable people who don't qualify for Medicaid to receive the family planning services, including contraceptives.

"Whether or not you think that is good public policy, it has nothing to do with an economic stimulus," a spokesman for Boehner said.

Free contraceptives. This is actually good, as there will be no next generation to be saddled with debt. The free-spenders of this generation will eventually have to pay themselves.

Politicians lying

Unpossible

Remember last year when we were complaining that our kids would be paying off the debt? How come we aren't complaining now that this will make our grand kids pay it off. Lets take our lumps and get over this faster and deal with the mess that we got ourselves into.

Gumercules: Exodus2001: This is his plan:

Linky (new window)

Is this clear enough?

I think that goes not where you expected it to go.

Must be a new "feature" in in fark. I link to this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090124/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_economy

And fark changes it to this:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OBAMA_ECONOMY%3FSITE=AP

winterwhile: the Pork now has Chairman OBAMA wings

Please detail all of this pork, and be specific.

Tyee: Remember last year when we were complaining that our kids would be paying off the debt? How come we aren't complaining now that this will make our grand kids pay it off. Lets take our lumps and get over this faster and deal with the mess that we got ourselves into.

Still can't tell the difference between good spending and bad?

That is the Republican way, now isn't it?

Sure, let's build roads and bridges because we need them. However, touting road and bridge construction as a way to create enough jobs to fix the economy is stupid.

Back when the government was using the WPA to put Americans to work building dams, bridges etc. It made sense because anyone can pick up a shovel and get to work. Now? Not so much. A single worker on the right equipment can do the work of hundreds of men, and it doesn't take hundreds of men to build the equipment.

I don't think the trickle is going to go in the right way.

BizarreMan: Sure, let's build roads and bridges because we need them. However, touting road and bridge construction as a way to create enough jobs to fix the economy is stupid.

Back when the government was using the WPA to put Americans to work building dams, bridges etc. It made sense because anyone can pick up a shovel and get to work. Now? Not so much. A single worker on the right equipment can do the work of hundreds of men, and it doesn't take hundreds of men to build the equipment.

I don't think the trickle is going to go in the right way.

Um, do you have any idea how many men will go to work, including people using equipment, for every billion dollars spent?

How many collateral jobs will be created in concrete plants, the trucking industry, etc?

I'm thinking you didn't think that one all the way through.

State_College_Arsonist: After skimming through a spreadsheet of the bill's spending provisions, created by the folks over at Read the Stimulus, I'm not sure this article is far off the mark. Looks like a whole lotta pork is in there.

...but then, of course, everything that doesn't affect you directly is "pork", right?

And since everything affects someone, but nothing affects everyone, everything is "pork"...

Gumercules: This is the same kind of crap that made the great depression last for a decade and a half instead of 4 or 5 years like all the other Depressions and Recessions.



It's like the right wingers are freakin' robots. They all just keep repeating the same crap, debunked talking points over and over.

Exodus2001: Must be a new "feature" in in fark.

You may need to adjust your tinfoil. You sound extra crazy when you blame a simple copypasta error on liberal conspiracy.

I think the breakdown of the "stimulus" funds you were looking for is http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/106461/How-Stimulus-Affects -Y ou that, actually.

Seriously, you're talking about doubling the federal deficit to do this, guys.

Didn't everybody just think raising the deficit was a bad thing when Bush did it?

Didn't everybody think the national debt growth was a bad thing when Bush did it?

...How does Obama get a pass on it, then?

xenodox: I think the breakdown of the "stimulus" funds you were looking for is http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/106461/How-Stimulus-Affects -Y ou that, actually.

Seriously, you're talking about doubling the federal deficit to do this, guys.

Didn't everybody just think raising the deficit was a bad thing when Bush did it?

Didn't everybody think the national debt growth was a bad thing when Bush did it?

...How does Obama get a pass on it, then?

You don't understand the difference between taking out a loan to fix the leak in your roof and using your credit cards for hookers and blow?

Let me guess, you are a proud Fark Independent^(tm)!

Random Reality Check: Still can't tell the difference between good spending and bad?

Almost all government spending is bad, the higher the number the worse it is. Limited government is the American way, not the Republican or Democrat way.
Still can't admit to the ideals that made the USA great?

fosborb: Exodus2001: Must be a new "feature" in in fark.

You may need to adjust your tinfoil. You sound extra crazy when you blame a simple copypasta error on liberal conspiracy.

You are an idiot. Try it yourself.

Tyee: Remember last year when we were complaining that our kids would be paying off the debt? How come we aren't complaining now that this will make our grand kids pay it off. Lets take our lumps and get over this faster and deal with the mess that we got ourselves into.

Citizen, you are speaking doubleunplusgood unthought. More spending is less spending. More debt is less debt. Praise Big Brother!

Doc Lee: Gumercules: This is the same kind of crap that made the great depression last for a decade and a half instead of 4 or 5 years like all the other Depressions and Recessions.



It's like the right wingers are freakin' robots. They all just keep repeating the same crap, debunked talking points over and over.

I am not a right-winger. I am just not ignorant enough to swallow the crap about how FDR brought our country out of the Great Depression. He was in office when it happened but many of his policies can be demonstrated to have been a hinderance to recovery rather than a help.

The only people who put faith in the FDR version of our recovery tend to be Political Science or Journalism majors, Public school teachers, people who were told so by public school teachers or some guy on MSNBC, or those who fail to understand any other economic school other than Keynes.

You probably believe Columbus was the first European to get to the New World and that Thanksgiving was the Pilgrims thanking the Indians for their help through the winter and that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was a legitimate reason to begin bombing Viet-Nam.

xenodox: I think the breakdown of the "stimulus" funds you were looking for is http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/106461/How-Stimulus-Affects -Y ou that, actually.

Seriously, you're talking about doubling the federal deficit to do this, guys.

Didn't everybody just think raising the deficit was a bad thing when Bush did it?

Didn't everybody think the national debt growth was a bad thing when Bush did it?

...How does Obama get a pass on it, then?

I don't like raising the deficit and growing national debt, but there is a difference between Bush debt and Obama debt.

Bush debt was stupid debt - he came in with a budget surplus and a soaring economy and managed to trash the entire thing. He embroiled us in two indefinite wars, presided of the biggest increase in federal government size since the New Deal - and the only one that didn't (theoretically) serve to counter a crisis. In fact, rather than responding to economic crisis by increasing federal government size, one could argue that his actions to bloat Washington contributed to our economic crash.

Some people saw what was happening and were not happy about it. Those same people are not happy about Obama's plan. However, they recognize that it may be the only way to dig the country out of the hole that Bush created. Obama debt is reluctant debt, but it is far from stupid. Without Federal spending, some economists have predicted a double digit unemployment rate - and that only counts the people who are actively seeking jobs. The true unemployment rate, including those who have given up, is generally at least 5% higher than the official unemployment rate. We're looking at the possibility of one out of every five Americans being jobless within the next three years. What is a tax cut going to do for them? Dropping the tax rate from 39% to 35% on someone who is making ZERO dollars, well, it means they still have ZERO dollars.

I wonder, sometimes, what Obama would be doing as president if he didn't have to worry about the entire country falling apart. Maybe we'd all have our unicorns by now.

In conclusion, I blame Bush for any increase in debt under an Obama administration.

"A Revealing Window on the U.S. Economy in Depression and War: Hours Worked, 1929-1950″ (new window)

There is an important difference between increasing the number of monies in your economy verses increasing the amount of useful work that actually gets done.

FTA:

"How any of this fits under the banner of economic stimulus is beyond me," Hensarling said. "I think it would prove to be beyond the American people as well."

True dat. But then, a lot of things are beyond the American people. Long division, f'rinstance.

They should tag on to the infrastructure spending that any new equipment needed for the upgrades should be provided by American manufacturers first. If we allow firms to purchase equipment all willy nilly we are going to send a bit of cash to Europe and Asia that might go to provide jobs in the US.

Trying to do my part to save my local economy. We have the worlds largest heavy equipment manufacturer headquartered here.