Reason why I didn't vote for him

/and no, McCain was worse.

No surprise here.

b..b..but Bush!

/is it too soon for that?

OK, so it looks like the Government is requesting stay due to a pending appeal, that the Saudi charity is arguing a question of jurisdiction, and that statements made by two DoJ nominees about the lawfulness of some forms of surveillance are irrelevant to the case at hand.

I'm no fan of FISA, but this case doesn't exactly look like the administration is trying to encourage more actions like this.

Oh, and could someone with a GED in law read the .pdf and tell me if I'm wrong? Because it's entirely possible. I'm in no way a lawyer.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. When they come for our freedom, we will hand it over willingly. Oh, wait, we already have.

benlonghair: I've said it before and I'll say it again. When they come for our freedom, we will hand it over willingly. Oh, wait, we already have.

It's worse than that. We are DEMANDING that they take our freedom away.

"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do." - Rudy Giuliani

benlonghair: I've said it before and I'll say it again. When they come for our freedom, we will hand it over willingly. Oh, wait, we already have.

What's this "we" shiat white man?

Oh hell, they all voted for the Patriot Act, then play it off by biatching about it. None of our leaders have a backbone.

Every time I mentioned this I was blasted as crazy. He voted FOR the last FISA dealio. The spying isn't going to stop, with technology ever increasing so shall spying on us. I have been railing against the Patriot Act since it's inception. EVERYONE but one Congresscritter voted for it, nobody read it.

ScubaDude1960: "Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do." - Rudy Giuliani

Is that a real quote? Because if so, holy crap.

"Meet the new boss, Same as the old boss..."
-Peter Townsend-


"Chaaaange! Wheeeewwww! Obaaaamaaaaa!"
-Randy Marsh-

the_be_sharps: "Meet the new boss, Same as the old boss..."
-Peter Townsend-

Written nearly four decades ago.

Remember, Obama voted to give telecos immunity. He had the choice to vote no.

spartywrx: the_be_sharps: "Meet the new boss, Same as the old boss..."
-Peter Townsend-

Written nearly four decades ago.

Remember, Obama voted to give telecos immunity. He had the choice to vote no.

he also voted for the amendment to remove it.

burndtdan: he also voted for the amendment to remove it.

and, by the way, i'm not editorializing there. i'm just stating the fact that he also voted for that amendment. the situation was not as single-faceted as was suggested in the post that i replied to.

burndtdan: burndtdan: he also voted for the amendment to remove it.

and, by the way, i'm not editorializing there. i'm just stating the fact that he also voted for that amendment. the situation was not as single-faceted as was suggested in the post that i replied to.

So he was for it before he was against but for it again? Don't work so hard at it burndtdan, all you have to say is "If you're not doing anything, you don't have a thing to fear". It's a lot easier that way.

GaryPDX: Every time I mentioned this I was blasted as crazy. He voted FOR the last FISA dealio. The spying isn't going to stop, with technology ever increasing so shall spying on us. I have been railing against the Patriot Act since it's inception. EVERYONE but one Congresscritter voted for it, nobody read it.

ugh.

This is the problem with opening cans of worms like this. They're damn near impossible to get rid of once they're implemented. DHS? Warrantless wiretapping? Wars on Terror?

I didn't see Obama too eaher to tone these things down, even though they were and are still a fairly hotbutton issue. Nor did I see McCain either. We're stuck with this crap now, I'm afraid. Perhaps groups like EFF, ACLU and other privacy/civil rights PACs will be able to make some inroads here, who knows.

muck4doo: So he was for it before he was against but for it again? Don't work so hard at it burndtdan, all you have to say is "If you're not doing anything, you don't have a thing to fear". It's a lot easier that way.

Actually, from his statements around the situation, he wanted to get rid of the immunity...but he didn't want to ditch the part about requiring the government to get warrants and there was a part of the bill that put in place someone to look at the government's work and report violations for future transparency.

I believe he was quite clear about willingly giving in to immunity if it got the rest of that stuff passed.

It's this odd form of....compromise?

make me some tea: This is the problem with opening cans of worms like this. They're damn near impossible to get rid of once they're implemented. DHS? Warrantless wiretapping? Wars on Terror?

I didn't see Obama too eaher to tone these things down, even though they were and are still a fairly hotbutton issue. Nor did I see McCain either. We're stuck with this crap now, I'm afraid. Perhaps groups like EFF, ACLU and other privacy/civil rights PACs will be able to make some inroads here, who knows.

Yeah, a lot of crap FDR implemented was supposed to be temporary too, but is still here. Over time people end up just forgetting about it.

bulldg4life: muck4doo: So he was for it before he was against but for it again? Don't work so hard at it burndtdan, all you have to say is "If you're not doing anything, you don't have a thing to fear". It's a lot easier that way.

Actually, from his statements around the situation, he wanted to get rid of the immunity...but he didn't want to ditch the part about requiring the government to get warrants and there was a part of the bill that put in place someone to look at the government's work and report violations for future transparency.

I believe he was quite clear about willingly giving in to immunity if it got the rest of that stuff passed.

It's this odd form of....political wharrrgarrrrble.

FTFY

Warrant?

Are those guys still playing?

Thought they died in the Great Hairspray Shortage of 1989.

muck4doo: burndtdan: burndtdan: he also voted for the amendment to remove it.

and, by the way, i'm not editorializing there. i'm just stating the fact that he also voted for that amendment. the situation was not as single-faceted as was suggested in the post that i replied to.

So he was for it before he was against but for it again? Don't work so hard at it burndtdan, all you have to say is "If you're not doing anything, you don't have a thing to fear". It's a lot easier that way.

you know, i specifically came back and pointed out i wasn't editorializing in my post so that when some idiot came after and responded just like you did, they would be shown for the idiot that they are.

i was stating a matter of historical fact.

burndtdan: muck4doo: burndtdan: burndtdan: he also voted for the amendment to remove it.

and, by the way, i'm not editorializing there. i'm just stating the fact that he also voted for that amendment. the situation was not as single-faceted as was suggested in the post that i replied to.

So he was for it before he was against but for it again? Don't work so hard at it burndtdan, all you have to say is "If you're not doing anything, you don't have a thing to fear". It's a lot easier that way.

you know, i specifically came back and pointed out i wasn't editorializing in my post so that when some idiot came after and responded just like you did, they would be shown for the idiot that they are.

i was stating a matter of historical fact.

He's president now Burntdan. He now has power to get all that kind of stuff changed, especially with a Democratic party majority congress. Let's see if he does it...or if you're still not editorializing on the subject 4 years in the future.

muck4doo: Over time people end up just forgetting about it.

Social Security is fixin to be a huge damn mess in the near future, do to design flaws. I believe we'll be remembering all about it soon enough.

rmz: ScubaDude1960: "Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do." - Rudy Giuliani

Is that a real quote? Because if so, holy crap.

Yes. If you do a google search for "Rudy Giuliani quotes," you'll find that this is one of the most sane things he's ever said.

ScubaDude1960: rmz: ScubaDude1960: "Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do." - Rudy Giuliani

Is that a real quote? Because if so, holy crap.

Yes. If you do a google search for "Rudy Giuliani quotes," you'll find that this is one of the most sane things he's ever said.

Good Christ I'm glad we didn't elect that guy.

ScubaDude1960: you'll find that this is one of the most sane things he's ever said.

lol wut

make me some tea: muck4doo: Over time people end up just forgetting about it.

Social Security is fixin to be a huge damn mess in the near future, do to design flaws. I believe we'll be remembering all about it soon enough.

The biggest Ponzi scheme ever. Don't worry though, we will just import some more people that reproduce a lot.

"It's just that when Obama says this stuff... I don't think he really means it."

/I can't tell if that was parody or real...

Gonz: I'm no fan of FISA, but this case doesn't exactly look like the administration is trying to encourage more actions like this.

Now watch as no one pays any attention to this. On either side.

Well no shiat he's going to continue it. Have you ever seen or even heard of a politician that ever let go of power once they got it?

/It was a stupid question if Obama was the answer

Get used to it.

douchebag

Find with me. They're spying on crazy wingnuts now, like Timothy McVeigh and that guy who murdered Unitarians in Tennessee.

Change! Change! Change! Change!
Lovely Chaaaange! Wonderful Chaaaange!
Lovely Chaaaange! Wonderful Chaaaange!

Well..... That sucks. I thought Obama would be different.

Yeah, it sucks. Hardly surprising though. I imaging it's very hard to reconcile that which modern technological makes possible and gives us an extremely potent tool to suss out plots with the rights of citizens.

still wrong though

Smeggy Smurf: Well no shiat he's going to continue it. Have you ever seen or even heard of a politician that ever let go of power once they got it?

/It was a stupid question if Obama was the answer

never heard that line before

Descartes: Well..... That sucks. I thought Obama would be different.

Why?

I am so glad we are choosing our ideals over security. It makes me all warm and fuzzy to watch america deBush itself.

ZOMG!!! It's soooo illegal!

Plus ça change, same as the old boss . . .

bulldg4life: muck4doo: So he was for it before he was against but for it again? Don't work so hard at it burndtdan, all you have to say is "If you're not doing anything, you don't have a thing to fear". It's a lot easier that way.

Actually, from his statements around the situation, he wanted to get rid of the immunity...but he didn't want to ditch the part about requiring the government to get warrants and there was a part of the bill that put in place someone to look at the government's work and report violations for future transparency.

I believe he was quite clear about willingly giving in to immunity if it got the rest of that stuff passed.

It's this odd form of....compromise?

This deserves repeating. I don't worship the man or think everything he does is remotely perfect, but I voted for him and still believe his policies are best.

Politics is rarely black and white.

Better of 2 evils.

/duh

I am going to enjoy the next four years.

/your tears, they nourish me...

Gonz: OK, so it looks like the Government is requesting stay due to a pending appeal, that the Saudi charity is arguing a question of jurisdiction, and that statements made by two DoJ nominees about the lawfulness of some forms of surveillance are irrelevant to the case at hand.

I'm no fan of FISA, but this case doesn't exactly look like the administration is trying to encourage more actions like this.

I would agree with this assessment.

WhyteRaven74: Now watch as no one pays any attention to this. On either side.

I would also agree with this one.

Smeggy Smurf: Well no shiat he's going to continue it. Have you ever seen or even heard of a politician that ever let go of power once they got it?

/It was a stupid question if Obama was the answer


Well, some people are pretty confident that Obama is willing to give some power back:

"...at various points during the Presidential campaigns, I recall people arguing that whatever Obama might say about Bush's expansions of executive power, if he became President he would probably find those powers pretty convenient, and would want to hold onto them. In that light, it's worth noting that Marty Lederman is the co-author of a set of two articles (1, 2) that considers, in exhaustive (!) detail, the main conceptual foundation of the argument that the President has the right to set aside laws passed by Congress when conducting a war, and (basically) finds it to be baseless. The other co-author, David Barron, has also been appointed to a position in the Obama administration's Office of Legal Counsel.

"In other words: the people who have been appointed to two of the most senior positions in the OLC, which (basically) tells the Executive branch what is legal and what is not, have explicitly and publicly rejected some of the Bush administration's central arguments in support of its expansive view of executive power. It's hard for me to see how they could reverse themselves on that score with a straight face, or why Obama would have appointed them if he had the slightest intention of adopting the Bush administration's views on this topic.

"Both of these developments leave me feeling pretty hopeful."

/does not approve