This is bad news... for Obama staff

Oh wank.

Windows 2000 on the White House computers? These guys have some of the most important jobs in the country, why the hell are we handicapping them technologically?

I do solmly swAr tht I wl f8thfly xcUt teh ofis of Prezdnt of teh UnItd St8s, n wl 2 teh bst of my ablT, prsurv, prtct, n dfnd teh Cnsti2shn of teh UnItd St8s.

Would it be a sucker bet that they'll do it anyway, it will be found out, there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth and so on?

in b4 my bff jill?

Mistah Scrotie: Windows 2000 on the White House computers? These guys have some of the most important jobs in the country, why the hell are we handicapping them technologically?

Hi, are you new here? FARKers will be celebrating this like there's no tomorrow.

FTFA: Not only are they leaving the modern world to enter a White House where some of the clunky desktop computers still run Windows 2000 but - worst of all - they'll be forced to surrender a form of communication staffers have relied on for the last two years to communicate with each other, outside allies, and the press.

That explains some of the failure of the Bush Administration's policies on modern America.

Ok, it only explains a small, small part of the failure.

How goddamm retarded is our government that it is forced to drop technologies which improve communications? What the hell?

Yeeeaah, I can see that using AOL's AIM service may not be in the best interest for the Executive branch of government.

They could do a behind-the-firewall solution like Sametime, but the real problem is too many people IM before thinking and that doesn't go bode well in the whole public records thing.

Mistah Scrotie: Windows 2000 on the White House computers? These guys have some of the most important jobs in the country, why the hell are we handicapping them technologically?

Honestly, it is easier to secure and centrally manage Win 2K than it is XP, Vista, or Server 2k5. Also seats licenses for Win2K are dirt cheap, and there tens of thousands of people to choose from who know how to effectively administer a network (lowering the labor cost).

While it is true that a Unix or Linux flavor might be even cheaper and more secure... the fact is that only 1% of the people that they are going to be bringing in will know how to deal with it and the apps that run on it. And running WINE on top of a Linux or Unix flavor (so that they can run apps that they recognize) presents a number of security concerns WHEN WINE crashes to the shell.

FTFA: Axelrod - whose habit of using punctuation and complete sentences in his IMs amuses young staffers - as much as any.

There's something wrong with this? I've just begun relenting on punctuation and full sentences on text messaging. They can have my Elements of Style when they take it from my cold dead hands.

Windows 2000 on the White House computers?

Why is this a problem? It's probably some old machines handed down to some junior-level staff, so they wouldn't have to pay for upgrades just so someone could type press releases on a cooler computer. Heck, there's probably an old Windows 95 print server in there somewhere...

Of course, the Obama folks will come in and rip out all of the older computers and install brand-new hardware across the board, so they can all get the newest zero-day exploits at the same time - and completely shut down the White House every couple of weeks for upgrades just because they can...

DamnYankees: How goddamm retarded is our government that it is forced to drop technologies which improve communications? What the hell?

It is all about security and record keeping concerns. And the General Services Administration (which sets up all these things), is woefully backwards after eight years of politicization and mismanagement. It is probably going to take a few years before its house can be put back in order and brought up to speed with the rest of us.

kth: There's something wrong with this? I've just begun relenting on punctuation and full sentences on text messaging. They can have my Elements of Style when they take it from my cold dead hands.

People have commented about the way I use full sentences and punctuation in IMs and texts, too. I actually bought a phone with a keyboard because I couldn't stand the amount of work it took to text in proper English without one.

I spend a lot of time wondering how we live in a day and age where written communication is so prevalent and yet, spelling, grammar, and punctuation seem to have become unimportant.

Mistah Scrotie: Windows 2000 on the White House computers? These guys have some of the most important jobs in the country, why the hell are we handicapping them technologically?

Agreed. I'd like to see a distro with SELinux (new window) become a standard in the future... Developed by the NSA, security oriented, and modern distros are easy to pick up and use (not like staffers would have to screw around with config files, drivers, various and sundry system administration duties, etc. - get some competent admins, and limit people to only conducting official business on those machines, and any complaints over usability should disappear). The only issues I can imagine would be porting over whatever custom software they use, and pressure from Microsoft.

Probably takes an hour for Solitaire to load up.

Ok, so how does this stop staffers who have IM on their home computers, cell phones, go to internet cafes, etc?

They can't IM from the White House, big f'ing deal.

serpent_sky: kth: There's something wrong with this? I've just begun relenting on punctuation and full sentences on text messaging. They can have my Elements of Style when they take it from my cold dead hands.

People have commented about the way I use full sentences and punctuation in IMs and texts, too. I actually bought a phone with a keyboard because I couldn't stand the amount of work it took to text in proper English without one.

I spend a lot of time wondering how we live in a day and age where written communication is so prevalent and yet, spelling, grammar, and punctuation seem to have become unimportant.

I go back and forth on grammatically correct, properly punctuated, texts. On one hand, everybody does it, on the other hand, I teach English as a foreign language and I hate the idea of sending texts with non-standard English to students and inadvertently reinforcing their bad habits.

Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: They can't IM from the White House, big f'ing deal.

You don't get it. If you can't IM from the White House, the terrorists have won.

ryebread: Agreed. I'd like to see a distro with SELinux (new window) become a standard in the future... Developed by the NSA, security oriented, and modern distros are easy to pick up and use (not like staffers would have to screw around with config files, drivers, various and sundry system administration duties, etc. - get some competent admins, and limit people to only conducting official business on those machines, and any complaints over usability should disappear). The only issues I can imagine would be porting over whatever custom software they use, and pressure from Microsoft.

I can tell you from experience with trying to get people in business to switch to a Linux distribution that it is easier to get them to start eating through their ass. The problem is that the applications that they are accustomed to using (Word, Excel, Access, Power Point, etc) do not run well on them, if at all. And the open source versions of these applications have a learning curve associated with them. That learning curve costs money, and in many instances it costs more than the seat license associated with the OS and applications that they are used to.

rynthetyn: I go back and forth on grammatically correct, properly punctuated, texts. On one hand, everybody does it, on the other hand, I teach English as a foreign language and I hate the idea of sending texts with non-standard English to students and inadvertently reinforcing their bad habits.

The language I use in IM is heavily dependent on my mood. The only time I'll use full grammar and punctuation is when extremely irritated or angry. I have trouble respecting anyone who uses "lol", though.

Illidan: rynthetyn: I go back and forth on grammatically correct, properly punctuated, texts. On one hand, everybody does it, on the other hand, I teach English as a foreign language and I hate the idea of sending texts with non-standard English to students and inadvertently reinforcing their bad habits.

The language I use in IM is heavily dependent on my mood. The only time I'll use full grammar and punctuation is when extremely irritated or angry. I have trouble respecting anyone who uses "lol", though.

lol

/Oh, you saw it coming

I don't understand why there's a need to do this. Programs like AIM and Trillian can log conversations, removing the possibility of hiding wrongdoing.

And the programs run on damn near any computer.

Zumaki: I don't understand why there's a need to do this. Programs like AIM and Trillian can log conversations, removing the possibility of hiding wrongdoing.

That's the point.

Code_Archeologist: (Word, Excel, Access, Power Point, etc)

How much of a need do you think there is for advanced use of those?

Word - OO.o works just fine. The only thing I can think of that's missing would be macros. I don't see losing those as a bad thing.

Excel - OO.o works reasonably well. The learning curve really isn't too steep, but there are a few missing features. The thing that comes to mind is that there isn't 100% compatibility between old spreadsheets that have been in use for ages, where nobody really understands how it works or how to recreate it. With a new administration, I'd wager that kind of cruft would be minimal, but that's just a guess.

Access - You may have a point here, I haven't spent much time with it. My understanding and gut feeling is that if it's being used heavily, they're likely to run into scaling issues. I understand the recommended course of action at that point is to migrate to MS-SQL. Why not PostgreSQL or MySQL?

Power Point - Again, you may have a point here, I thankfully have had little reason to ever use it or it's replacements.

You've definitely got a point... But I don't think the problems with it are insurmountable by any means.

Zumaki: I don't understand why there's a need to do this. Programs like AIM and Trillian can log conversations, removing the possibility of hiding wrongdoing.

1) AIM and Trillian log on the client side. To comply with record-keeping laws, you would need to use an internally hosted IM platform which logs on the server side.

2) But having logged IM sessions is the reason the lawyers say they shouldn't use IM. People tend to be casual with it, and will discuss things with people as though they are face-to-face. That will inevitably lead to something ugly landing in the public record.

We don't allow the use of IM either. Not so much for people passing information out that they shouldn't be but because we had a problem with some of the younger staff spending their day on IM and not working. Writing them up for it didn't change things, they'd use the online MSN IM crap instead.

DamnYankees: How goddamm retarded is our government that it is forced to drop technologies which improve communications? What the hell?

Because you have seen where suddenly EVERY communication from the WH now has to be disclosed. It is ridiculous. Of course the liberal farkers will now support the right of the President to receive counsel without fear of it being made public

Seriously, at some point this just interferes with everyone's ability to do the job for which they were elected. They can't custom-build hardware for the White House?

The clunky technology is standard issue for government offices, but the bar on instant messaging is particular to the White House. Legal and security experts say it is dictated by the fear of embarrassment if IMs were to be disclosed.

Maf54 doesn't see what the big deal is.

ryebread: You've definitely got a point... But I don't think the problems with it are insurmountable by any means.

The insurmountable element comes down to money.

Office 2007: $300 per user
Open Office: $0 per user

Open Office Training time: 16-24 hours (2-3 work days, I have actually run a test on this at my office)
Average Hourly Rate of an office worker: $25-$50
Cost of conversion to Open Office: $400-$1200 per user

So the average cost per user is about $800, and therefore converting your entire office from Microsoft Office to Open Office is not economical.

Hang On Voltaire: DamnYankees: How goddamm retarded is our government that it is forced to drop technologies which improve communications? What the hell?

Because you have seen where suddenly EVERY communication from the WH now has to be disclosed. It is ridiculous. Of course the liberal farkers will now support the right of the President to receive counsel without fear of it being made public

I am actually going to bet in the next four years we are going to see an amendment to the federal records act to make certain communication partially exempt, the way that unrecorded phone calls and face to face conversations are exempt. The law is woefully outdated with the technology of today (note the amount of trouble the Bush Administration made for itself).

It's amazing that something like Facetime (new window) isn't standard on most Federal government networks by now.

glave27: It's amazing that something like Facetime (new window) isn't standard on most Federal government networks by now.

The point is not that the IM cannot be logged, it is that the WH does not WANT it logged. The messages would become public 5 years after the end of the Obama administration. They don't want every little conversation they have to become public. So banning the use of IM is the only way to go.

The federal records laws need to be updated to allow e-mail and IM to remain somewhat more private, from a legal side not a technology side. I am quite sure the IM/Email could be encrypted. We do it on the battle field.

Kenwhat: You're missing the point. They can custom build all the hardware and software they want and it wouldn't change the law requiring written communications be made public 5 years after the end of a presidential term.

They're doing this to thwart the public's ability to read their communications 9-13 years from now.

No, they're doing this to retain the privledge that every administration has - to hold conversations that are private.

... unless you're demanding that all administration officials walk around wired for sound for their whole administration, and that all their telephones be recorded.

Frankly, there is some truth that candor doesn't exist in a spotlight, on a stage, amplified for the whole world.

*BUZZ*
*BUZZ*
This is retarded.

They're worried that someone will say something embarrassing in an IM. Maybe if everyone is frequently reminded to behave well and do their jerbs in a professional fashion, they'll have nothing to worry about. Knowing that the public is watching is a great incentive for responsible behavior.

Of all the things that Obama promised, if he is able to bring more transparency to the government, that'll be one that has the most positive lasting effect.

Kenwhat: You're missing the point. They can custom build all the hardware and software they want and it wouldn't change the law requiring written communications be made public 5 years after the end of a presidential term.

They're doing this to thwart the public's ability to read their communications 9-13 years from now.

You are inventing sinister intent where there is none. Would you want all of your IM conversations to made public record for everybody that you know to be made public in five years?

All the gossip, catty comments, sniping, links to lolcats, and cybersex for all the world to see.

Obama's Left Nut: glave27: It's amazing that something like Facetime (new window) isn't standard on most Federal government networks by now.

The point is not that the IM cannot be logged, it is that the WH does not WANT it logged. The messages would become public 5 years after the end of the Obama administration. They don't want every little conversation they have to become public. So banning the use of IM is the only way to go.

The federal records laws need to be updated to allow e-mail and IM to remain somewhat more private, from a legal side not a technology side. I am quite sure the IM/Email could be encrypted. We do it on the battle field.

Democrats need to get over their butthurt. Obizzle can't have a crackberry fo shizzle.

Hetfield: Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: They can't IM from the White House, big f'ing deal.

You don't get it. If you can't IM from the White House, the terrorists have won.

You don't get it. The terrorists have already won by getting a Secret Muslim^TM elected President. Removing IM is a way to keep them from communicating with other Al Qaeda cells across the world.

I doubt anybody told these people they couldn't IM anymore. I'm sure they were told that they couldn't IM on AIM or Yahoo anymore. Exchange has IM built into it and I would bet they use Exchange. Where I work we used it up until the point when they shut it down because of all of it had to be recorded and archived because of SARBOX. I am sure the White House just like pretty much every other law that has been passed where the federal government doesn't have to follow doesn't either.

Gee. the want Ombombus to play by the same rules as every other President has. Yet; again, he refuses to be within the law he pretends to uphold.

This guy stinks.

Mistah Scrotie: Windows 2000 on the White House computers? These guys have some of the most important jobs in the country, why the hell are we handicapping them technologically?

Because we have been using it for a very long time (in an IT scale). There are many systems and components that will only work in a Windows 2000 environment. To change an OS will result in a flowdown of impacts that aren't easily understood without a full analysis and test of every system that would interface to that server.

I can't speak from the ease of operation of Windows 2000, but I am fairly confident that the pool of talent is available to support it. Unlike newer OSes, the foibles of 2000 are known. Switch to a newer OS and you immediately cut the pool of qualified administrators and of those administrators the length of their experience is immediately limited.

If you would like the White House to be using the latest technology at all times, be prepared to have the White House become several orders more expensive (taxes) to support.

shockingly, this was never a problem for the bush admin

they should be using windows ME.

// heard it was better than 2k
/// shifty eyes

DamnYankees: How goddamm retarded is our government that it is forced to drop technologies which improve communications? What the hell?

Nobody is saying that you have to drop those technologies, only that if you use them, everything you say will be a matter of public record. The dropping is because you're afraid somebody is going to say something embarrassing or incriminating. Apparently the Obama folks don't trust the staff to not say things that reflect badly on the administration.

Code_Archeologist: Open Office Training time: 16-24 hours (2-3 work days, I have actually run a test on this at my office)

Of course, I used to work at training company. People were sent for 16-24 hours worth of MS Office training regularly. Whether or not they actually knew it was irrelevant: all new hires got sent off, or experienced people got sent so that they could burn through their training budgets. And never mind the fact that the jump from Office 03 to 07 is a bigger, more confusing jump than Office 03 to OO.o.

So in reality, it doesn't really matter. If anything, you could broadcast switching to OpenOffice as a way to use training budgets up. You could get government offices converted instantly.

In any case, Re: W2K- my private sector company just moved away from W2K. I've been in companies that were still using W2K. It's only 8 years old- many companies consider that brand spanking new.

kth: There's something wrong with this? I've just begun relenting on punctuation and full sentences on text messaging. They can have my Elements of Style when they take it from my cold dead hands.

We don't need your literacy old man!

DamnYankees 2009-01-18 10:02:17 AM
How goddamm retarded is our government that it is forced to drop technologies which improve communications? What the hell?

Wow.

And somehow you found a way not to blame Bush...