he was just saying that people with good intentions should be as dedicated as those with bad intentions.

I get the point he was trying to make, but for crying out loud, could he have picked a worse analogy?

Follow Jesus Like Nazis Followed Hitler, Rick Warren Tells Stadium Crowd(headline)

In other words... blindly.

It's interesting that the main idea of following Christ tends to be likened to being a child who will believe anything.

/was raised in the church and went to a Baptist university
//bitter???

Jesus is not the problem.

Diogenes: I get the point he was trying to make, but for crying out loud, could he have picked a worse analogy?

i liken this a lot to jeremiah wright saying "god damn america". it's a phraseology that is certain to cause a ruckus and diminish the point you were making.

Diogenes: I get the point he was trying to make, but for crying out loud, could he have picked a worse analogy?

Yeah, this pretty much,.

wants Christians to act like Hitler Youth

Like THIS ?

superlawyergirl: It's interesting that the main idea of following Christ tends to be likened to being a child who will believe anything.

Mark 10:15
Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.

that's part of their philosophy

Diogenes: I get the point he was trying to make, but for crying out loud, could he have picked a worse analogy?

I don't know... given the chance, I think many of Warren's followers might well choose to follow the paths of people described in that sermon.

/hope not
//not too much faith in humanity

WWHD?

"The world is full of little Saddams," he observed, "they're in every country, they're in every church, they're in every business, they're in every homeowner's association. They're everywhere. You give a guy a little power and it goes to his head. "

Yeah, he might start thinking God personally told him to acquire more power and fame for himself!

During his Anaheim speech, Warren revealed that he'd received a message from God to seek more influence, power and fame. God, Warren narrated, led him to Psalm 72, "Solomon's prayer for more influence... in Psalm 72 [Solomon] says 'God, I want you to make me more influential. God, I want you to give me more power. I want you to bless my life more. God, I want you to spread the fame of my name through other countries.'"

Oh sweet irony...

That level of fanaticism directed toward anything is a bad thing.

veedeevadeevoodee: wants Christians to act like Hitler Youth

Like THIS ?

This version is a lot better. (new window)

PacManDreaming: veedeevadeevoodee: wants Christians to act like Hitler Youth

Like THIS ?

This version is a lot better. (new window)

No, Warren just wants Christians to be ready at a moment's notice to defend Berlin from the Red Army.

Cue Zamboro with the pics of that scary Jesus rally.

And atheists who fight over intelligent design in classrooms or religion in the inauguration are the crazy, belligerent ones...

Christ, antichrist...Hey, it's all good!

"Jesus said, 'I want you to do this publicly.' So what I want you to do is take the card, and in just a minute, and if you say 'Rick, I am willing to serve God's purposes in my generation.'

I want you to open up to the sign that says 'Whatever it takes.'

Whatever it takes.

That's farking scary.

Does that include torturing people until they agree with you?

UNC_Samurai: No, Warren just wants Christians to be ready at a moment's notice to defend Berlin from the Red Army.

After I saw some video of a spiky haired German guy, wearing a diaper and dancing in the mud to techno, I'm gonna have to say the Soviets can have Berlin along with the rest of the Fatherland for all I care.

Diogenes: I get the point he was trying to make, but for crying out loud, could he have picked a worse analogy?

patrick767: During his Anaheim speech, Warren revealed that he'd received a message from God to seek more influence, power and fame. God, Warren narrated, led him to Psalm 72, "Solomon's prayer for more influence... in Psalm 72 [Solomon] says 'God, I want you to make me more influential. God, I want you to give me more power. I want you to bless my life more. God, I want you to spread the fame of my name through other countries.'"

Oh sweet irony...

Talk about paraphrasing something to death and losing the context. The actual text of Psalm 72:

Give the king thy judgments, O God, and thy righteousness unto the king's son. He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment. The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness. He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor. They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations. He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth. In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth. He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth. They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust. The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts. Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him. For he shall deliver the needy when he crieth; the poor also, and him that hath no helper. He shall spare the poor and needy, and shall save the souls of the needy. He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight. And he shall live, and to him shall be given of the gold of Sheba: prayer also shall be made for him continually; and daily shall he be praised. There shall be an handful of corn in the earth upon the top of the mountains; the fruit thereof shall shake like Lebanon: and they of the city shall flourish like grass of the earth. His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed. Blessed be the LORD God, the God of Israel, who only doeth wondrous things. And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen. The prayers of David the son of Jesse are ended.

The Icelander: "Jesus said, 'I want you to do this publicly.' So what I want you to do is take the card, and in just a minute, and if you say 'Rick, I am willing to serve God's purposes in my generation.'

I want you to open up to the sign that says 'Whatever it takes.'

Whatever it takes.

That's farking scary.

Does that include torturing people until they agree with you?

well, you would have to SERIOUSLY deviate from the actual teachings of the bible to arrive at that conclusion.

and i don't think it's wise to react to something simply based on what the logical extreme might be. that's the same mentality that causes people to say that if you propose raising taxes a little bit, you might as well be proposing communism, because that's what the logical extreme might be.

PacManDreaming: UNC_Samurai: No, Warren just wants Christians to be ready at a moment's notice to defend Berlin from the Red Army.

After I saw some video of a spiky haired German guy, wearing a diaper and dancing in the mud to techno, I'm gonna have to say the Soviets can have Berlin along with the rest of the Fatherland for all I care.

Are you sure about that?

burndtdan: he was just saying that people with good intentions should be as dedicated as those with bad intentions.

Of course, all Christian Americans have good intentions and open moral values...

burndtdan: well, you would have to SERIOUSLY deviate from the actual teachings of the bible to arrive at that conclusion.

Avowed Christians do it every day. You really can't get any clearer that "Thou shalt not kill."

quickdraw: Avowed Christians do it every day. You really can't get any clearer that "Thou shalt not kill."

they deviate, but only a select, completely insane few deviate to anywhere near the extent that they would think you should torture someone to turn them on to the gospel.

/also, it translates better to "thou shalt not murder"... the same books of law tell the israelites several instances where killing is a-ok

Dan Savage is having a contest to define "saddlebacking" as a sexual term, ala 'santorum'.
Come on Farkers, vote! Linky ( ^ NSFW language and images)

burndtdan: they deviate, but only a select, completely insane few deviate to anywhere near the extent that they would think you should torture someone to turn them on to the gospel.

ORLY?

burndtdan: they deviate, but only a select, completely insane few deviate to anywhere near the extent that they would think you should torture someone to turn them on to the gospel.

But Warren's not saying "Whatever it takes. Just don't hurt anybody." He's saying "Whatever it takes." Period. Full stop.

If it takes torture to make someone confess Jesus as their Lord, I don't put them past it. It's happened in the past quite a few times.

Thankfully, the fastest growing religious group in the country are the unaffiliated. And while getting them to do something is normally like herding cats, a movement that has someone saying "Whatever it takes" at the head of it is just scary enough to get them mobilized.

quickdraw
Are you sure about that?

Look how thick the foam on that beer is! The people who ordered those liters are getting hosed! Oh the humanity!

quickdraw: ORLY?

the inquisition isn't going on in southern california last i checked.

The Icelander: But Warren's not saying "Whatever it takes. Just don't hurt anybody." He's saying "Whatever it takes." Period. Full stop.

for most people, something along the lines of "just don't hurt anybody" is implicit in just about everything they say or do.

if your wife asked you to pick up food on the way home, and she didn't add "just don't hurt anyone", do we need to worry that you're going to fark some shiat up in the process?

there really isn't anything in warren's personal history, as offensive as it can be, to suggest a preference for violence as a means to his goals.

burndtdan: for most people, something along the lines of "just don't hurt anybody" is implicit in just about everything they say or do.

if your wife asked you to pick up food on the way home, and she didn't add "just don't hurt anyone", do we need to worry that you're going to fark some shiat up in the process?

My wife's not asking me to save souls and convert the world to Christianity. Nor is she making allusions to Nazism or the Russian Revolution when she does it.

And how do you think they'll react when people start fighting back? Their opponents aren't just their enemies: They're the enemies of the Lord of All and Creator of the Entire Farking Universe.

burndtdan: to suggest a preference for violence as a means to his goals.

That's not the problem. A preference is fairly obvious, but including it as a part of "whatever it takes." is much more insidious. For you, "just don't hurt anyone" is implicit in some things. For many of us, "anything is justified in pursuit of this goal" is a part of "whatever it takes."

burndtdan: for most people, something along the lines of "just don't hurt anybody" is implicit in just about everything they say or do.

Let me put it another way: When a Christian says they're going to convert everyone, I'm not going to just trust them that they won't do it by force. They haven't earned that trust, and history shows that they're more than willing to kill for Jesus.

darkyn: That's not the problem. A preference is fairly obvious, but including it as a part of "whatever it takes." is much more insidious. For you, "just don't hurt anyone" is implicit in some things. For many of us, "anything is justified in pursuit of this goal" is a part of "whatever it takes."

Yes. If my wife said "Your family is starving, and we need to eat. Do whatever it takes to get food" you're damn right I'm going to go so far as to kill people to do it.

They're the enemies of the Lord of All and Creator of the Entire Farking Universe God Almighty ... you know, ruler of Heaven and Earth, and every GOT-DAM thing inbetween.



/ FTFY
// are ya laffin', biotch?

Wow, what the fark?

You would think he might reference, oh I dunno....Jesus? People flocked to and were devoted to him.

He picks Hitler.

The Icelander: My wife's not asking me to save souls and convert the world to Christianity. Nor is she making allusions to Nazism or the Russian Revolution when she does it.

my point was that it's implicit. the lack of someone saying "just don't hurt anyone" does not cause you to conclude they want you to go out and hurt people. it's absurd to suggest that because he didn't explicitly say it, he meant the opposite.

The Icelander: And how do you think they'll react when people start fighting back? Their opponents aren't just their enemies: They're the enemies of the Lord of All and Creator of the Entire Farking Universe.

fighting back? he wasn't telling them to fight in the first place. he wasn't telling them to have opponents. he was calling them to devotion to their faith and action to spread that faith.

what you need to realize is that this was a message that was spoken with understood context. a context that they understand. a context that you apparently do not. no offense, but you're not even close.

Not enough Nazi images in here:



There.

Wow, what a dumbass. Couldn't he have said, "follow Jesus with as much fervor as you follow American Idol?"

Seriously, why reference one of the most evil people in the history of humankind?

"Rick Warren also explained that God had personally instructed him to seek, for the good of the world, more influence, power and fame."

This must be the same drunken, spiteful deity that wanted George Bush to be president or perhaps it is just that the people who talk this way merely worship their own vanity.

He really likes his holocaust imagery. Used it to discuss abortion (that's all abortions, no matter what, BTW) and now here. It's a weird comment on how his mind operates. Sort of like how the "History Channel" is really the "Historical torture, mostly from World War II Nazi footage" channel.

Not to mention really scary, and I still wish to hell he was not The One's choice for the inaugural convocation.

quickdraw: burndtdan: well, you would have to SERIOUSLY deviate from the actual teachings of the bible to arrive at that conclusion.

Avowed Christians do it every day. You really can't get any clearer that "Thou shalt not kill."

Except that's not exactly what it says. It's a prohibition against murder, which is specifically defined elsewhere in the book. Things like warfare and executing criminals are still fine. Well, according to the commandments, anyhow: Jesus was more ambiguous about it, he kind of half-assed what mohammed later said more clearly, that there is what is just and what is virtuous (and a really good man does the latter, but god won't hold the former against you).

Also, I encourage our judicial system to interpret this as an incitement to violence, but mostly because I don't like Warren, not because I think that's what he seriously intended.

Nazi's weren't evil for killing people or starting wars -- human beings have been doing that stupid shiat for millennia. They were evil because they were fascists -- they had a follower base of demagoguery that subverted the self to the ideology. It's a threat to Western Civilization.


Devoting yourself, like a Nazi, means you *are* a Nazi -- and you don't have to be a racist, nationalist, or a murderer to be evil and a threat to self determined freedom everywhere.

Fail Warren.

burndtdan: my point was that it's implicit. the lack of someone saying "just don't hurt anyone" does not cause you to conclude they want you to go out and hurt people. it's absurd to suggest that because he didn't explicitly say it, he meant the opposite.

fighting back? he wasn't telling them to fight in the first place. he wasn't telling them to have opponents. he was calling them to devotion to their faith and action to spread that faith.

And what of people who don't want their faith?

what you need to realize is that this was a message that was spoken with understood context. a context that they understand. a context that you apparently do not. no offense, but you're not even close.

You don't make allusions to Nazis or Communists and when you want people to do something peacefully. He could have used MLK or Ghandi as an example, and nobody would have batted an eye.

Jim_Callahan: Also, I encourage our judicial system to interpret this as an incitement to violence, but mostly because I don't like Warren, not because I think that's what he seriously intended.

i pretty much assure you that the only ones in the crowd that interpreted it that way are ones that are just prone to interpret anything to a call to violence: the mentally unstable ones.

for anyone who wants to know what they understood he was calling them to do, look up the great commission.

or better yet, i'll quote it here

Matthew 28:16-20:
Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

they know the great commission. he was just telling them to be devoted to it.

he picked a hell of a stupid way of saying it. but ultimately, he was instructing them to go and witness to people and try to win them to christ.

and trust me, that process does not involve torture or violence or anything scary. it's annoying and i wish they wouldn't do it anyways, but it isn't scary.

/ignore the text please

Skleenar: Not enough Nazi images in here:



God With Us

There's no Christianity like American Christianity.

I hope people throw lots and lots of eggs at that fat bastard (Rick Warren) when he gets up there to pray at the inauguration. Please go stock up on eggs now. Do it.
Major Obama mistake. Major.

That 'God' they worship is jealous and cruel.