also " You guys are oppressive dicks who use terrorist tactics but are supplicated by the majority of the world community"

Also "we have a right to defend our people and that right includes the right to be armed." Israel can fark off with it's "the Palestinians must be disarmed" policy.

7of7: it's

And that apostrophe can fark off too.

chemical_angel
also " You guys are oppressive dicks who use terrorist tactics but are supplicated by the majority of the world community"


Let's not forget "Our charter calls for us to wipe you off the face of the planet" and the ever popular "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

friendinpa: Let's not forget "Our charter calls for us to wipe you off the face of the planet" and the ever popular "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

It's amazing how people tend to forget Hamas' own words in their charter, huh?

Let's look at some highlights from the Hamas charter, shall we?

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

...

"Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement"

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

I find those last two to be especially relevant to all these talks about cease fires and what not. Hamas has no desire for peace, I think that's pretty clear.

This one is somewhat comical:

The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine, for under the wing of Islam followers of all religions can coexist in security and safety where their lives, possessions and rights are concerned. In the absence of Islam, strife will be rife, oppression spreads, evil prevails and schisms and wars will break out.

I think it was opposite day when Hamas wrote that part.

KaponoFor3: The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine, for under the wing of Islam followers of all religions can coexist in security and safety where their lives, possessions and rights are concerned. In the absence of Islam, strife will be rife, oppression spreads, evil prevails and schisms and wars will break out.

Certainly a weird sales pitch to non-Muslims.

If this ends up with some international (i.e. not Israeli) troops there monitoring the border it could be an improvement. Certainly there are those inside Gaza (and the West Bank for that matter) who have longed for international involvement to cut through some of the endless tit-for-tat.

Still though, long term if there is to be a viable state (and yeah, I realize lots of people don't want that to happen) it has to have some form of army, even if officially limited to defense. Perhaps it's very very long term. But in the end, any state has to be economically viable and not dependent on some other state to grant it permission to do every little thing.

Diogenes: Certainly a weird sales pitch to non-Muslims.

A weird sales pitch and one that anyone who has any knowledge of ruling Muslim regimes would find laughable.

Also "We still have a few schools, hospitals, and maybe even a UN building or shack to hide in and fire rockets from."

7of7: Also "we have a right to defend our people and that right includes the right to be armed."

Japan once said the very same thing.

7of7: Also "we have a right to defend our people and that right includes the right to be armed." Israel can fark off with it's "the Palestinians must be disarmed" policy.

So killing innocent civilians is 'defending people' in your mind?

7of7: Also "we have a right to defend our people and that right includes the right to be armed." Israel can fark off with it's "the Palestinians must be disarmed" policy.

Bombing israeli cities and attempting to murder israeli civilians is "defending themselves" ?
What about their genocidal Jihad agenda ? it's just a joke ?

The fact that they see all of Israel as "occupation" and that it should be islamic waqf ?

And weren't you the one who previously wished for Israel to be destroyed by the arabs ?

7of7: Also "we have a right to defend our people and that right includes the right to be armed." Israel can fark off with it's "the Palestinians must be disarmed" policy.

You know who else disarmed people in order to subjugate them...

SchlingFocker: You know who else disarmed people in order to subjugate them...

The Aztecs?

SchlingFocker: You know who else disarmed people in order to subjugate them...


The Russians?
The Japanese?
The State of California?
Washington D.C.?

7of7: Also "we have a right to defend our people and that right includes the right to be armed." Israel can fark off with it's "the Palestinians must be disarmed" policy.

Um, No.

It's not the Palestinians having weapons that is the problem. It's the "Launching weapons at Israel" part that is the issue.

I don't care if my neighbor has trebuchet, but if he starts fling crap into my yard, there are going to be problems.

friendinpa: SchlingFocker: You know who else disarmed people in order to subjugate them...


The Russians?
The Japanese?
The State of California?
Washington D.C.?

Virginia Tech?

friendinpa: SchlingFocker: You know who else disarmed people in order to subjugate them...

The Russians?
The Japanese?
The State of California?
Washington D.C.?


The Galactic Empire?
The Cylons?
The Romans?
My mom?

I_C_Weener
Virginia Tech?

nice

Eddie_Dean_NY

The Galactic Empire?
The Cylons?
The Romans?
My mom?

The Sheriff of Nottingham?
Torquemada?
Dark Helmet?
Heddy Lamar?

crimsin23: 7of7: Also "we have a right to defend our people and that right includes the right to be armed." Israel can fark off with it's "the Palestinians must be disarmed" policy.

So killing innocent civilians is 'defending people' in your mind?

Yep, that is sure what he said, alright.

KaponoFor3: It's amazing how people tend to forget Hamas' own words in their charter, huh?

That's because it's in that squiggly moonspeak. Who can remember all that?

friendinpa: Heddy Lamar?

That's Hedley Lamar!!!

I_C_Weener
friendinpa: Heddy Lamar?

That's Hedley Lamar!!!


14 minutes? You guys are slipping. I C gets a beer next time I am in Indy.

friendinpa: I_C_Weener
friendinpa: Heddy Lamar?

That's Hedley Lamar!!!

14 minutes? You guys are slipping. I C gets a beer next time I am in Indy.

Sorry, I was out stampeding cattle.

Through the Vatican.

friendinpa: 14 minutes? You guys are slipping. I C gets a beer next time I am in Indy.

Hurray!

This BS will continue until one of them leaves (Israel, Palestine). While Israel is at it, they might as well occupy Gaza and annex it to Israel. Why withdraw only to have history repeat itself two years from now?

lexnaturalis: Japan once said the very same thing.

They're armed, too, in case you've not noticed.

I_C_Weener: Captioning aside that monster smart car is just awesomely hilarious! I saw a monster mini-van once (at an actual monster truck show, years ago) but this is even sillier! Awesome.

Eddie_Dean_NY: friendinpa: I_C_Weener
friendinpa: Heddy Lamar?

That's Hedley Lamar!!!

14 minutes? You guys are slipping. I C gets a beer next time I am in Indy.

Sorry, I was out stampeding cattle.

Through the Vatican.

Kinky!

I hope Israel really goes for the win this time.

Completely putting aside the argument of which side is right and which side is wrong, putting aside all of the political and logical arguments, putting aside judgment on who the aggressor is and what rights the other side has to defend itself....


can we all agree on one thing - Hamas cannot outfight Israel under any circumstances, militarily speaking. They simply cannot win this war.

what do they hope to accomplish? A change in world opinion? A change in the opinions of moderate Israelis?

priestrape: what do they hope to accomplish?

They would like the borders relaxed and to be talked to instead of undermined and marginalized.

Right now nobody will engage Hamas directly because they are a 'terrorist organization' and nobody will negotiate with terrorists.

Hamas wants to be treated as the rightful governing body of Gaza, which it is but which no one will recognize.

Meh, Hamas is just looking to take more pounding in the ass before they break down, accept Israeli terms and then promptly declare victory.

vernonFL: They would like the borders relaxed and to be talked to instead of undermined and marginalized.

I understand that. But that's not going to happen if they continue lobbing missiles into Israel (that is NOT a judgment about who is right and who is wrong...it's simply a fact). I think you'd agree that there is no chance of them defeating Israel in a military conflict and, thus, becoming the dictator of the terms, as it were. So why do they think that continuing to fight is the answer?

Right now nobody will engage Hamas directly because they are a 'terrorist organization' and nobody will negotiate with terrorists.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. No need for the quotation marks. Again, that's not to say that the voice of the Palestinian people - who are not synonymous with Hamas - don't have a voice that needs to be heard.

I'm sorry, I have no sympathy for a nation that targets relief supply storage building with WP shells.

Or guns down 10 year olds running away from them.

Given Israels recent actions, I'm pretty much in favor of just cutting them off, no aid, no support.

If they continue to massacre civies? Well then, perhaps its time for some airstrikes of our own.

The Japanese military is basically neutered, and has been so since the end of WWII.

This does not apply to 'soft arms' such as:
Bukakki
Tentacle porn
Most extreme elimination challenge
Godzilla


itazurakko: lexnaturalis: Japan once said the very same thing.

They're armed, too, in case you've not noticed.

I_C_Weener: Captioning aside that monster smart car is just awesomely hilarious! I saw a monster mini-van once (at an actual monster truck show, years ago) but this is even sillier! Awesome.

When there was a ceasefire, both Israel and Egypt had the borders sealed, airspace and ocean were strictly controlled, food, water, electricity, anything from the outside world was either cut off or strictly controlled.

Basically Hamas has no other choice. When they don't shoot rockets, they are forgotten and isolated, even by other Arabs. When they shoot rockets, they get attention and possibly soon an agreement with both Israel and Egypt to open the borders a little.

KaponoFor3: Let's look at some highlights from the Hamas charter, shall we?

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

...

"Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement"

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

I find those last two to be especially relevant to all these talks about cease fires and what not. Hamas has no desire for peace, I think that's pretty clear.

This one is somewhat comical:

The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine, for under the wing of Islam followers of all religions can coexist in security and safety where their lives, possessions and rights are concerned. In the absence of Islam, strife will be rife, oppression spreads, evil prevails and schisms and wars will break out.

I think it was opposite day when Hamas wrote that part.

Cue the "The Hamas Charter is completely irrelevent because someone from the US Army War College decided that Hamas has been villainized, but you should really listen to the reasons that Osama Bin Laden attacked the United States which include (but are not limited to) US support of Israel" meme.

What the Hamas Charter says or doesn't say is irrelevant.

friendinpa: I_C_Weener
Virginia Tech?

nice

Eddie_Dean_NY

The Galactic Empire?
The Cylons?
The Romans?
My mom?

The Sheriff of Nottingham?
Torquemada?
Dark Helmet?
Heddy Lamar?

Alexandros of Antioch? (obscure?)

myspamhere: The Japanese military is basically neutered, and has been so since the end of WWII.

You really should check out the SDF sometime.

Yeah, it's limited to defense due to article 9 (which some want to get rid of but that's another thread) but they have PLENTY of arms, ships, tanks, planes, missiles, etc. They share bases with the US in many cases.

Point being, it's certainly not an "unarmed" situation, they are now trusted with arms.

Of course, Japan is a functioning state, which is kinda important. I certainly don't claim that setting up Palestine (or whatever you choose to call the second state) with a regular army is going to happen or be reasonable tomorrow.

But it DOES make sense to not say they must disarm forever.

vernonFL: What the Hamas Charter says or doesn't say is irrelevant.

lol

Dont forget "Obama is being sworn in shortly and we might as well gamble on a forced settlement including major Israeli consessions as a show of goodwill to the region instead of the reaming we'd get now"

vernonFL: What the Hamas Charter says or doesn't say is irrelevant.

Bin Laden attacked us because we support Israel.

They're buying time to send in the Hamas Burkha Bombers.

The Palestinians asking "leave us alone" and "let us use our borders" isn't an entirely unreasonable.

Along with stopping some weapons and millitans which may or may enter, it also completely halts all the domestic and completely benign supplies that 1.5 million people need to survive and live decent lives. Before the blockade 400 truckloads of stuff entered gaza on a daily basis, now they just get the equivalent of 15. For 1.5 million people.

Back during the last cease fire there was a good 3 months where only three rockets were launched total. Then Israel went all assasination and raid happy, and they wonder why the rockets returned?

sendtodave: vernonFL: What the Hamas Charter says or doesn't say is irrelevant.

Bin Laden attacked us because we support Israel.

lol

vernonFL: What the Hamas Charter says or doesn't say is irrelevant.

Wow. Incoming Intarwebz Logic Tornado Alert, everyone.