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(Spiegel) Dumbass Hamas divided between two different factions. Judging on the evidence, these two factions are the "completely batshiat crazy" wing and the "utterly farking insane" wing   (spiegel.de) divider line 57
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notmtwain [TotalFark] 2009-01-09 10:40:10 AM  
Too bad you didn't have time to read the article subby.

The article indicates that the militant no-compromise part of Hamas hasn't received the kind of popular support it expected.

And that the delegation Hamas sent to Egypt is comprised both of hard liners and those who would negotiate.

Other respected Paletineans are advocating negotiations and telling people that negotiation is the only way.

It seemed pretty encouraging to me.

 
LyriCa1z [TotalFark] 2009-01-09 10:53:45 AM  
notmtwain: Too bad you didn't have time to read the article subby.

The article indicates that the militant no-compromise part of Hamas hasn't received the kind of popular support it expected.

And that the delegation Hamas sent to Egypt is comprised both of hard liners and those who would negotiate.

Other respected Paletineans are advocating negotiations and telling people that negotiation is the only way.

It seemed pretty encouraging to me.


To think that any faction of Hamas would consider serious, fair and balanced negotiations is extremely naive. The only solutions they see is the elimination of Israel. They claim that if the Israelis give up the West Bank and other geographical locations, and give them to the Palestinians that all would be good. But they would continue to push and push and insist on more land until Israel is no more. No one should negotiate with these thugs. Democratically elected or not, Hamas needs to be destroyed. Palestinians need a government that will not tolerate terrorism, and condone rocket attacks or suicide bombings. That is the only way.

 
opiumpoopy 2009-01-09 11:11:23 AM  
LyriCa1z: To think that any faction of Hamas would consider serious, fair and balanced negotiations is extremely naive. The only solutions they see is the elimination of Israel. They claim that if the Israelis give up the West Bank and other geographical locations, and give them to the Palestinians that all would be good.

(a) I don't think you understood the article or the post above

(b) You've contradicted yourself. What are you saying Hamas wants - the 1947 borders, or all of Israel? (Clue: they don't agree themselves. RTFA.)

(c) What you propose is impractical without murdering tens of thousands of civilians. But don't let that dissuade you.

/ Personal view, expressed in previous threads: both sides are assholes.

 
barneyfifesbullet 2009-01-09 11:31:19 AM  
They should post on Kos.

They probably already do

 
degreeless 2009-01-09 11:34:07 AM  
In before the dead baby props.

 
Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude [TotalFark] 2009-01-09 11:37:07 AM  
So, a lot like the American factions?

 
vonschiller 2009-01-09 11:37:21 AM  
Are they 1/3 and -2/5?

Oh, FACTIONS.

Damn it.

 
Edsel 2009-01-09 11:37:44 AM  
notmtwain: Too bad you didn't have time to read the article subby.

The article indicates that the militant no-compromise part of Hamas hasn't received the kind of popular support it expected.

And that the delegation Hamas sent to Egypt is comprised both of hard liners and those who would negotiate.

Other respected Paletineans are advocating negotiations and telling people that negotiation is the only way.

It seemed pretty encouraging to me.


This. Subby is a dumbass.

 
fritopendejo 2009-01-09 11:41:18 AM  
Hamas The GOP divided between two different factions. Judging on the evidence, these two factions are the "completely batshiat crazy" wing and the "utterly farking insane" wing

FTFY

 
LonMead 2009-01-09 11:43:54 AM  
So, the correct division of factions would be the Blow-Them-All-Up faction and the Blow-Some-Of-Them-Up-And-Hope-The-Rest-Go-Away faction?

 
neddddavis 2009-01-09 11:46:06 AM  
Israel,

Give people in Gaza and West Bank prosperity roughly on a par with your own, and the existential threat to Israel will end. Israel must dedicate itself to that purpose, which will then make it more accetable to the world for Israel to stamp out terrorism in Gaza the West Bank, and Lebanon. But keeping an impoverished totally demoralized Gaza and West Bank population will guarantee that the existential threat to Israel will remain forever, and will lead to grave consequences for Israel.

 
maddogdelta [TotalFark] 2009-01-09 11:47:25 AM  
SPLITTERS!

 
nekulor [TotalFark] 2009-01-09 11:47:53 AM  
fritopendejo:

Hamas The GOP divided between two three different factions. Judging on the evidence, these two three factions are the "completely batshiat crazy" wing, the "utterly farking insane" wing and the "Damn it I'm switching over to the democrats" wing.



FTFY

 
pvd021 2009-01-09 11:47:54 AM  
Just kill them all and let Allah decide who should get those underage virgins.

I think everyone would like to see a conclusion to all of this at some point.

 
Bill_Wick's_Friend 2009-01-09 11:48:13 AM  
Why are you handing out paper instead of bread," a mother with her two daughters called out and hurries on.

Same reason they have the money to buy bullets but never have any money for medicine.

Same reason a heroin addict has money for today's fix but can't find a way to scrape up enough cash for the rent.

 
pvd021 2009-01-09 11:51:37 AM  
neddddavis


Give people in Gaza and West Bank prosperity roughly on a par with your own, and the existential threat to Israel will end. Israel must dedicate itself to that purpose, which will then make it more accetable to the world for Israel to stamp out terrorism in Gaza the West Bank, and Lebanon. But keeping an impoverished totally demoralized Gaza and West Bank population will guarantee that the existential threat to Israel will remain forever, and will lead to grave consequences for Israel.

I prefer education. There's no point in receiving prosperity if you don't know how to manage it, if you're illiterate, and you view the teachings of some fanatical religious cleric above, simple common sense, and basic science. Its those crazy, radical, educated leaders who inspire the numerous idiots to do their bidding. Look at OBL and his minions. Look at the US military and Cheney. Same shiat, different sides of the coin.

 
ChancesAre910 2009-01-09 11:53:02 AM  
I think subby is forgetting the vastly under-represented "blown the hell up" wing of the party.

 
JDAT 2009-01-09 11:54:49 AM  
It's amazing that Israel is still willing to talk to those people. It's like Charlie Brown once again trying to kick the football trusting once more that Lucy will hold it for him.

 
HappyDaddy 2009-01-09 11:56:55 AM  
submitter: Hamas divided between two different factions.

Fine - segregate the cemetery.

 
DarnoKonrad 2009-01-09 11:59:11 AM  
19 comments. Mideast Fatigue FTW.

 
dhudd 2009-01-09 11:59:13 AM  
JDAT: It's amazing that Israel is still willing to talk to those people. It's like Charlie Brown once again trying to kick the football trusting once more that Lucy will hold it for him.

Best analogy ever.

 
cirby 2009-01-09 11:59:21 AM  
The article indicates that the militant no-compromise part of Hamas hasn't received the kind of popular support it expected.

And that the delegation Hamas sent to Egypt is comprised both of hard liners and those who would negotiate.

Other respected Paletineans are advocating negotiations and telling people that negotiation is the only way.


...except that "negotiate," in Hamas-speak, means "get the Israelis to stop shooting long enough for us to rearm." The hard-liners are more "keep shooting and throwing away lives until the rest of the Arab world steps in and attacks Israel." The "other respected Palestinians" are a bunch of old guys nobody in Hamas really listens to any more - they're not any part of the Hamas command structure.

Get the morons in Hamas to stop firing rockets from (and at) schools and using hospitals as weapons storage sites, and then we'll see if there's any progress to be made...

 
SVX [TotalFark] 2009-01-09 11:59:22 AM  
neddddavis: Israel,

Give people in Gaza and West Bank prosperity roughly on a par with your own, and the existential threat to Israel will end. Israel must dedicate itself to that purpose, which will then make it more accetable to the world for Israel to stamp out terrorism in Gaza the West Bank, and Lebanon. But keeping an impoverished totally demoralized Gaza and West Bank population will guarantee that the existential threat to Israel will remain forever, and will lead to grave consequences for Israel.


Israel doesn't have anywhere near the resources to even begin lifting the Pals out of poverty. The former West Germany has spent 20 years bailing out old East Germany, and the West out numbered the East by almost 3 to 1. Israel-Palestinians have close to parity in numbers, and the Pals are worse off than the East Germans were.

Again. Not possible. Saudi Arabia might be able to afford to, but they couldn't give two shiats about the Palestinians.

 
tortilla burger 2009-01-09 11:59:42 AM  
neddddavis: Give people in Gaza and West Bank prosperity roughly on a par with your own, and the existential threat to Israel will end.

FTFY

The only way this conflict will end is for the more moderate Arabs to ostracize and cut off the extremists. That way, the radical groups will have an increasingly difficult time recruiting others to their cause.

I think the Egyptian idea is a good start. Controlling the borders more tightly will reduce smuggling of weapons that may end up in the hands of extremists. This opens the way for more civilized dialogue.

 
Smackledorfer 2009-01-09 12:03:58 PM  
SVX: Israel doesn't have anywhere near the resources to even begin lifting the Pals out of poverty. The former West Germany has spent 20 years bailing out old East Germany, and the West out numbered the East by almost 3 to 1. Israel-Palestinians have close to parity in numbers, and the Pals are worse off than the East Germans were.

On top of that, the palestinians can never be given social equality to the Israelis or the jews would lose their state due to population growth.

This could have been solved with a two state solution a while ago, had the jewish settlers stopped settling in those areas knowing full well that the only reason to do that was to be douchebags and prevent the option of a two-state solution altogether. I think just about every president we've had has stated they are against the settling, but apparently its America's job to throw money at Israel no matter how they act.

 
Dr Dreidel 2009-01-09 12:05:19 PM  
neddddavis: Israel,

Give people in Gaza and West Bank prosperity roughly on a par with your own, and the existential threat to Israel will end. Israel must dedicate itself to that purpose, which will then make it more accetable to the world for Israel to stamp out terrorism in Gaza the West Bank, and Lebanon. But keeping an impoverished totally demoralized Gaza and West Bank population will guarantee that the existential threat to Israel will remain forever, and will lead to grave consequences for Israel.


Sure, just like prosperity was handed to Israel in 1947. Or was it just the physical land, I wonder?

// idiot
// no one "gives" you prosperity; you "create" or "earn" it
// pvd021 has it right, google Wahhat al-Salaam/Neve Shalom

 
Dr Dreidel 2009-01-09 12:08:19 PM  
Wahhat as-Salaam/Neve Shalom

FTFM, but in my defense, I don't speak Arabic.

 
DrillSergeantPoopyPants 2009-01-09 12:09:17 PM  
More dead terrorists please.

 
DarnoKonrad 2009-01-09 12:11:55 PM  
Dr Dreidel: neddddavis: Israel,

Give people in Gaza and West Bank prosperity roughly on a par with your own, and the existential threat to Israel will end. Israel must dedicate itself to that purpose, which will then make it more accetable to the world for Israel to stamp out terrorism in Gaza the West Bank, and Lebanon. But keeping an impoverished totally demoralized Gaza and West Bank population will guarantee that the existential threat to Israel will remain forever, and will lead to grave consequences for Israel.

Sure, just like prosperity was handed to Israel in 1947. Or was it just the physical land, I wonder?

// idiot
// no one "gives" you prosperity; you "create" or "earn" it
// pvd021 has it right, google Wahhat al-Salaam/Neve Shalom


Depends on what he means by "give". But As I have stated a few times, the onus for building a reconciliation process is on the party with all the leverage. And that is Israel.

Anyway, you're awfully quick to be throwing around the idiot word -- it wasn't even mildly critical of Israel -- it was a poorly worded suggestion of questionable meaning.

 
Smackledorfer 2009-01-09 12:12:07 PM  
Dr Dreidel: neddddavis: Israel,

Give people in Gaza and West Bank prosperity roughly on a par with your own, and the existential threat to Israel will end. Israel must dedicate itself to that purpose, which will then make it more accetable to the world for Israel to stamp out terrorism in Gaza the West Bank, and Lebanon. But keeping an impoverished totally demoralized Gaza and West Bank population will guarantee that the existential threat to Israel will remain forever, and will lead to grave consequences for Israel.

Sure, just like prosperity was handed to Israel in 1947. Or was it just the physical land, I wonder?

// idiot
// no one "gives" you prosperity; you "create" or "earn" it
// pvd021 has it right, google Wahhat al-Salaam/Neve Shalom


Don't give that country too much credit now. They've had massive economic and military support from the US for a long time. They didn't throw that money away and I'm sure they spent it wisely, so saying they built their nation is true, but giving them credit as though they took dead land and turned it into something awesome by sheer will and hardwork alone isn't quite accurate. It must be nice operating a country without having to worry about your own military budget.

Hmm, I wonder if our military budget for the last 20 years could have paid off our entire debt. I'm willing to bet it could.

 
Kazuya 2009-01-09 12:14:03 PM  
LyriCa1z: notmtwain: Too bad you didn't have time to read the article subby.

The article indicates that the militant no-compromise part of Hamas hasn't received the kind of popular support it expected.

And that the delegation Hamas sent to Egypt is comprised both of hard liners and those who would negotiate.

Other respected Paletineans are advocating negotiations and telling people that negotiation is the only way.

It seemed pretty encouraging to me.

To think that any faction of Hamas would consider serious, fair and balanced negotiations is extremely naive. The only solutions they see is the elimination of Israel. They claim that if the Israelis give up the West Bank and other geographical locations, and give them to the Palestinians that all would be good. But they would continue to push and push and insist on more land until Israel is no more. No one should negotiate with these thugs. Democratically elected or not, Hamas needs to be destroyed. Palestinians need a government that will not tolerate terrorism, and condone rocket attacks or suicide bombings. That is the only way.




First of all that isn't ever going to happen. Hamas have about $5 and a starving population.
Israel have a gigantic army, massive funding and more nukes than most.

Secondly that is the type "Freedom Fighters" claim.
They are extremists. The appeal to an extreme base and operate on an extreme image.
They want to appear fearsome. They would blow up Jerry Seinfeld if they thought thats what would rile your average Israeli.

In my country the IRA slogan I always heard was "drive them (the British) into the sea!". Blowing up the Queen was another ridiculous fantasy sometimes sung about.
Obviously the IRA, a few thousand strong, weren't ever going to manage to kick 500,000 British subjects off an island that they're great great grandparents grew up on against the will of the British Empire.
In the end they weren't even able to get the 6 counties back like they swore they would. But you aren't any kind of militia unless you sound big and fearsome.

Thirdly once Palestinians start getting basic human needs like water, food, medical care safety etc.
Then they get some land back, freedom to run their own affairs, freedom from persecution and basic civil rights they aren't going to just take their lot and say "now lets get down to destroying Israel!".
They'll have mortgages, kids in college and all the other headaches of the first world and taking what they have and saying fark it and strapping a bomb to themselves isn't going to be a priority.
Hamas are a desperate group that have support from a desperate people but you can't just make them disappear unless you commit near total genocide to the people of the region.

The atmosphere at the soccer games is going to be poison for at least 100 years but that doesn't really belong in the politics tab.

 
DarnoKonrad 2009-01-09 12:14:06 PM  
Dr Dreidel: Wahhat as-Salaam/Neve Shalom

FTFM, but in my defense, I don't speak Arabic.


Neve Shalom - Wāħat as-Salām (new window)

 
Slamguy 2009-01-09 12:17:35 PM  
More dead terrorists please.

Seconded.

 
wage0048 2009-01-09 12:17:47 PM  
Even if one doesn't believe that negotiations with "moderate" members of Hamas would have much chance of reducing violence, it seems to me that any opportunity to try for a peaceful solution (providing it doesn't include risk of harm to the negotiators) should be explored.

Even a just war (and I'm not commenting on whether either side is justified here) is a bad thing, and should be avoided if any opportunity for peaceful resolution exists.

 
JunkyJu 2009-01-09 12:17:50 PM  
How about, if you're not happy living there, pack up your shiat and move.

 
D_Moran 2009-01-09 12:19:41 PM  
The previous 6-month ceasefire was promoted by Hamas moderates as a path to the easing of the Israeli blockade. But when the border restrictions in Gaza actually increased, the hardliners' views prevailed and the rockets started flying once again.

Those Hamas hardliners are brave -- especially when they're safely in Syria and not Gaza.

 
Death to America 2009-01-09 12:24:53 PM  
pvd021: Look at OBL and his minions. Look at the US military and Cheney. Same shiat, different sides of the coin.

How dare you compare Usama the Great to that vile creature Cheney. How dare you. Compare the transcripts you will see what is wrong with your comparrison.

 
KillmeKate 2009-01-09 12:26:51 PM  
A thought occurred to me: we're entered into a strange era where political correctness and international opinion has become of equal or greater import than military ability and success. What this creates is a situation where a much more powerful group/society/nation seeks to subdue a smaller group/society/nation but never destroy it for fear of being seen as monsters. The more powerful group is no longer allowed to bring its full might to bear. This gives the smaller group a de facto legitimacy as it often has a "fighting chance" in any conflict.

In past wars/conflicts, where the more powerful group found the weaker group undesirable, they destroyed that weaker group's ability to fight then took over and destroyed those elements of the weaker group that did not assimilate. In this way, a conflict was, more or less, resolved.

Look at the Native Americans. At the time, there were no outcries of genocide or human rights violations. The more powerful society destroyed/subdued the weaker society to the more powerful societies benefit. This was how things were done since the beginning of conflict. It's brutal and immoral and disgusting but it's who we are.

Now, it seems that, because we have become so "enlightened," this kind of behavior is abhorred. Without making any moral judgments (who can really argue FOR genocide?), I just thought it interesting to think about this:
Because Total, Brutal, Vicious war is so reviled nowadays, we're dooming ourselves to a constant state of war as no conflict can get resolved now with the finality that it used to.

So, we have to keep dealing with the nation building and regional conflicts and moral ambiguity because, at some point, it was agreed that "civilized" societies could no longer completely destroy their enemies.

 
Dr Dreidel 2009-01-09 12:27:18 PM  
DarkoKonrad, Smackledorfer

The point is that, much like the welfare system in this country, it's pointless for Israel just to throw money at the reconciliation problem by building schools, universities, roads, (I was gonna say hospitals, but everyone could use more hospitals), banks, and the associated infrastructure if there's no one (or far too few) to maintain and run them.

One of the biggest problems in Gaza is illiteracy. Teaching people to read (and by extension, think) for themselves will go a long way toward reconciliation. If schools in Gaza ran exchange programs with schools in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem (or hosted guest lecturers from "U of Gaza", the Techniyon, or Bar Ilan U, whatever), for example, would one side be so quick to shell schoolchildren on the other?

So, maybe idiot was a harsh term. My point is that reconciliation is not going to come in the form of cash handouts (like those tried with Arafat at Oslo). It's going to come starting with an agreement like the one posited in TFA - where Gazans are self-governing and can set their own rules, but aren't so fanatically obsessed with Israel that they're cutting off their nose (by not buying bread with that cash, but paramilitary infrastructure) to spite their face (the populace, who is increasingly aware of Hamas' failings in that area). Reconciliation, much like prosperity, as I mentioned above, isn't simply handed out via signing a resolution - both sides have to earn it.

 
Kazuya 2009-01-09 12:37:55 PM  
KillmeKate: A thought occurred to me: we're entered into a strange era where political correctness and international opinion has become of equal or greater import than military ability and success. What this creates is a situation where a much more powerful group/society/nation seeks to subdue a smaller group/society/nation but never destroy it for fear of being seen as monsters. The more powerful group is no longer allowed to bring its full might to bear. This gives the smaller group a de facto legitimacy as it often has a "fighting chance" in any conflict.

In past wars/conflicts, where the more powerful group found the weaker group undesirable, they destroyed that weaker group's ability to fight then took over and destroyed those elements of the weaker group that did not assimilate. In this way, a conflict was, more or less, resolved.

Look at the Native Americans. At the time, there were no outcries of genocide or human rights violations. The more powerful society destroyed/subdued the weaker society to the more powerful societies benefit. This was how things were done since the beginning of conflict. It's brutal and immoral and disgusting but it's who we are.

Now, it seems that, because we have become so "enlightened," this kind of behavior is abhorred. Without making any moral judgments (who can really argue FOR genocide?), I just thought it interesting to think about this:
Because Total, Brutal, Vicious war is so reviled nowadays, we're dooming ourselves to a constant state of war as no conflict can get resolved now with the finality that it used to.

So, we have to keep dealing with the nation building and regional conflicts and moral ambiguity because, at some point, it was agreed that "civilized" societies could no longer completely destroy their enemies.



i195.photobucket.com
Whoever Kate is I'd like to give her an AK-47

 
Smackledorfer 2009-01-09 12:46:46 PM  
Dreidel, why are you addressing me with that?

I never said that we shouldn't allow people in Gaza to learn to read, or to improve their educational system, and the person you called an idiot never once stated that they should improve the economic prosperity of Palestinians while ignoring eduction, so you basically called him an idiot for something he didn't even say.

All I did was take issue with the suggestion that Israelis weren't handed a golden opportunity to take the fast track to a successful country. They absolutely were. The country is special in that they have an outside economy covering a good chunk of their budget. Not to mention the extra devotion to the country by a significantly large religion.

 
Auto432 2009-01-09 12:49:32 PM  

1967 war

* Israel withdrawing water from the Jordan River.
* Arabs Build dam that would divert water. 1965.
* Israelis bomb dam.
* Israeli boat hits mine. 1966.
* Syrians and Israelis fire at each other. Both sides claim it was in response.
* Israelis invade West Bank. Battle ensues.
* President Lyndon B. Johnson says he thinks the invasion was disproportionate and bad for U.S.
* Jordan under pressure militarizes.
* Egypt and Syria sign defense pact.
* Aerial battle over Syria Golan Heights.
* Israelis start farming land in disputed demilitarized zone
* Syria shells tractors
* Israel brings armored tractors and Air force and army.
* Soviet Union fed false information to Syria that Israel was to invade Syria. Syria tells Egypt. Egypt closes straits of Tiran to Israeli ships.

* Israel uses closure as a reason to launch Pre Emptive strike on surrounding arab forces.

2008-09 Gaza War.
* Blockade
* Blockade not lifted
* Israel strikes tunnels on November 4.
* Hamas launches rocket
* Israeli Airstrikes
* More rockets.
* More cross exchange.
* Israel launches strike.


One closure of a strait equals justification of a pre emption. Continuing blockade of a people is worse than that.
Two standards.



 
Dr Dreidel 2009-01-09 01:01:54 PM  
Smackledorfer

I had the intention of expounding on the fact that the Palestinian Authority (in all its various forms since 1967) has also received billions of dollars from the US alone (billions more from Saudi Arabia). Since I didn't I'll sum up here: Israel gets cash from the US because it is a strategic ally in that they have advanced both military (tank armor) and civilian (Intel chip) technology and can provide an ROI on the investment.

By contrast, one of the few things that Arafat built with his Oslo cash was an airport. He was warned by both Israel and the US not to, as such an airstrip, if used to transport contraband to be used in bombings (defined pursuant to the terms of the accord, yada yada yada), and it was, would be among the first targets in retaliation. Not to mention the fact that the humanitarian crises he had bemoaned in Gaza and the West Bank suffered due to the expense of building a freaking airport.

I'm not trying to be abrasive. I was perturbed at the suggestion by the original letter writer that the Israelis "need to provide prosperity" for Gazans. It's a pie-in-the-sky suggestion, and I dismissed it. This agreement should provide the framework for Gaza's (and Gazans') prosperity, yes.

 
KJM315 2009-01-09 01:05:29 PM  
Excuse me. Are you the Judean People's Front?fark off! We're the People's Front of Judea

 
beoswulf 2009-01-09 01:23:44 PM  
Dr Dreidel: DarkoKonrad, Smackledorfer

The point is that, much like the welfare system in this country, it's pointless for Israel just to throw money at the reconciliation problem by building schools, universities, roads, (I was gonna say hospitals, but everyone could use more hospitals), banks, and the associated infrastructure if there's no one (or far too few) to maintain and run them.

One of the biggest problems in Gaza is illiteracy. Teaching people to read (and by extension, think) for themselves will go a long way toward reconciliation. If schools in Gaza ran exchange programs with schools in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem (or hosted guest lecturers from "U of Gaza", the Techniyon, or Bar Ilan U, whatever), for example, would one side be so quick to shell schoolchildren on the other?

So, maybe idiot was a harsh term. My point is that reconciliation is not going to come in the form of cash handouts (like those tried with Arafat at Oslo). It's going to come starting with an agreement like the one posited in TFA - where Gazans are self-governing and can set their own rules, but aren't so fanatically obsessed with Israel that they're cutting off their nose (by not buying bread with that cash, but paramilitary infrastructure) to spite their face (the populace, who is increasingly aware of Hamas' failings in that area). Reconciliation, much like prosperity, as I mentioned above, isn't simply handed out via signing a resolution - both sides have to earn it.


Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza are the best educated Arabs in the Middle East. But that's not saying much considering Arabs simply don't read anything that isn't about Islam.

 
tlchwi02 2009-01-09 01:27:47 PM  
LyriCa1z: To think that any faction of Hamas would consider serious, fair and balanced negotiations is extremely naive. The only solutions they see is the elimination of Israel. They claim that if the Israelis give up the West Bank and other geographical locations, and give them to the Palestinians that all would be good. But they would continue to push and push and insist on more land until Israel is no more. No one should negotiate with these thugs. Democratically elected or not, Hamas needs to be destroyed. Palestinians need a government that will not tolerate terrorism, and condone rocket attacks or suicide bombings. That is the only way.

yes, perhaps you should come up with a single final solution that will permanently fix the problem of an ethnic group living in an area another ethnic group would like for themselves.

/i barely consider it a godwin because of the incredible hypocracy being used by all sides

 
jakomo002 2009-01-09 01:28:00 PM  
beoswulf: Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza are the best educated Arabs in the Middle East. But that's not saying much considering Arabs simply don't read anything that isn't about Islam.

Is there some kind of Ignorance Competition that I don't know about, beoswulf? Are you vying for #1 in the world? You pollute these threads with constant propaganda BS.

Arabs never read anything that isn't about Islam, huh?

Does that makes you better than someone who says All Jews Do Is Count Their Money, or does that just include you in the group of racist idjits?

 
Snoozer 2009-01-09 01:34:27 PM  
There will never be peace in the Middle East.

 
beoswulf 2009-01-09 02:07:02 PM  
jakomo002: beoswulf: Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza are the best educated Arabs in the Middle East. But that's not saying much considering Arabs simply don't read anything that isn't about Islam.

Is there some kind of Ignorance Competition that I don't know about, beoswulf? Are you vying for #1 in the world? You pollute these threads with constant propaganda BS.

Arabs never read anything that isn't about Islam, huh?

Does that makes you better than someone who says All Jews Do Is Count Their Money, or does that just include you in the group of racist idjits?


See, if you read a little you wouldn't get so badly owned.


From the Arab Human Development Report


The Arab world translates about 330 books annually, one fifth of the number that Greece translates. The cumulative total of translated books since the Caliph Maa'moun's time is about 100,000, almost the average that Spain translates in one year.

"Arab countries produced 6,500 books compared to 102,000 books in North America and 42,000 in Latin America and the Caribbean". Still drawing on UNESCO figures, the 2003 Report claimed:
Book production in Arab countries was just 1.1 per cent of world production, although Arabs constitute 5 per cent of the world's population. The publication of literary works was lower than the average level of book production.


In 1996, Arab countries produced no more than 1945 literary and artistic books, which represents 0.8 per cent of international production. This is less than what a country such as Turkey produces, with a population about one-quarter that of the Arab countries. In general, Arab book production centres mainly on religious topics and less on other fields such as literature, art and the social sciences.


The Arab book, the 2003 Report concludes, is a 'threatened species' and the challenges faced by Arab book publishing are very real. Print runs of books are low, ranging for the average novel from 1,000-3,000 copies. "A book that sells 5,000 copies is considered a bestseller" it states. With fewer books being published and small runs, publishing runs the risk of becoming "economically unfeasible".

Five times as many books are translated into Greek (spoken by just 11 million people) as Arabic.

The 2002 Arab Human Development Report was a landmark document. Written by Arab social scientists, it was the first auto-critique to address the challenges faced by the Arab world at the start of a new century.



At least these Arab researchers. are acknowledging why Arabs are so ashamed to be Arab.

 
jenlen [TotalFark] 2009-01-09 02:09:46 PM  
Hiding Among Mosques And Schools

 
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